Check this out.. Any ideas for me..? [Archive]

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Quazzy

11-09-2009, 13:53

I know you're not suppose to post about the same issues as other members, but I can't find any that explain my problem.. I am a mechanic, and have been for a long time, this truck has been a whole new experience for me, haha.. After completely rebuilding my 6.5TD in my '95 Dually, I ran into lots of bugs. Most are straightened out now except for this.. I have to prime the thing with fuel in the intake to get it to start, and once it starts, it misses and sputters at all RPM's and if I let it try to idle, it'll miss and kind of backfire and then just die. I can keep it running if I keep on the throttle though. But, it'll start right back up as soon as I hit the key unless it sits for a minute or two, then it cranks about 10-20 seconds til it starts again. Once I drive it about a half hr or so, it clears up and runs great like there's a connection heating up and expanding to make contact..? I've changed out the PMD with two others and they make no differance. My lift pump seems to be working. I've gone through my fuel lines and can't find any leaks where air would be entering the system. It acts like the shutoff solenoid is clicking on and off intermittently while it's running.. My head is gonna explode pretty soon if I don't figure this out.. Sorry to sound like I'm repeating some of the other posts, but I looked through a lot of them and didn't really find anything exactly like what's going on with mine.. I appreciate any ideas you guys might have.. Thanks, Marty

john8662

11-09-2009, 15:08

A lot of things are possibilities here, all of the possibilities that I'll mention involve testing and or swapping and replacing parts to figure out what the issue is.

The shutoff solenoid shouldn't be clicking while operating, it should be steadily held in an on position, if this isn't so, or the voltage to it isn't consistent, find out why (measure voltage, replace the solenoid, or pump itself).

Diesel engines do not operate in the same way a gasoline engine does, you should never pour raw fuel down the intake, for several reasons.

The backfire issue could be caused by your fuel in the intake, or it could be a physical timing issue. Were the alignment marks carefully aligned during assembly? Cam, IP driven gear, crank gear, timing chain?

Air in the fuel system is hard to eliminate at times. You'll first want to verify that your fuel filter is full of fuel, and stays that way. Please research the forum for helpfull tips on priming the fuel system with the electric fuel pump (and turning it on).

J

a5150nut

11-09-2009, 19:25

Quazzy,

Have you loosened the nuts on the injector end of the fuel lines to bleed all the air out?

DickWells

11-09-2009, 20:06

Can't just dismiss ANY ground, anywhere, as not being a problem with start and run with a 6.5. First one that got to me, back when, was the one on the pass. side head, rear, at the trans. dip-stick tab. Next, was the one on top of frame, pass. side, below the starter. Rplaced that one with a 5/16 SS bolt and nuts, through the frame, from behind the tire. Hardest related fault to find was a little purple wire in a molded plastic block, up on (I think) the right side of the IP. Finally found it by having my wife watch the dash go all willy wonk, while I flexed and wiggled every wire and terminal under the hood, while engine idling. The intermitent open was inside that little molded block. I was told that that block was a filter, or something. I just jumped around it with a splice, and never had another problem. Well, like that that you're having anyway. There are many other grounds, all over in the 6.5, so it's not easy.
Can't remember the two terminals to jump in the lift pump relay, which is in your electrical dist. center. Regardless, the cover and the relay are labled, so you should be able to figure it out. Anyway, you just jumper them, (the correct sockets) and you'll hear your lift pump run, or get fuel out the top of your filter, with the bleed screw open, ignition switch on or off. I used to keep a straightened paper clip under that cover, just to use every time I thought I might have a lift pump problem.
When you get things fixed up, it's good to put a relay in the lift pump circuit, to take the load off the oil pressure switch. The OPS's burn out after a while. The wiring is available somewhere here in the archives. Some old timer, (older than me!), can tell you where to look.
Probably non of this is any help, but just in case-----------.
Good luck,
Dick Wells:)

schamp6497

11-10-2009, 06:21

Could you be having a drain back problem? I think there is a check valve to keep the fuel in the line when motor is off.

Quazzy

11-10-2009, 09:53

Thanks for the input guys.. I'm heading out in a bit to go take a look at a few things.. Hopefully I can figure something out before I end up wanting to burn the damn thing to the ground.. I ended up blasting a deer with my van at 3:30 am coming home from a gig saturday night, and needless to say, I'm another vehicle down..it's totalled. So, now the truck has to get rollin.. I'll letcha know what I figure out (if anything)..

Quazzy

11-10-2009, 17:52

Ok, this thing is driving me nuts.:eek:.haha.. Found out my lift pump that was working before, apparently stopped for some reason (probably the relay in the OPS i suppose).. Took out the OPS and just put my manual gauge there. Hotwired the pump to an ignition source and it works fine.. And, with advice from Dick, started checking grounds.. Yup, had 2 before and they both were either broken now or rotted off. Put a new one from the intake to the fire wall, fired the truck up and it would barely run. Was smoking so bad, it laid a nice fog over about 3/4 of a 7 acre field next to me! Turned the IP back a bit and the smoke cleared up, and it seemed to run nice til I took it down the road and it started to miss again.. Now I have a code saying that my crank sensor is bad. The scanner says my timing (which is supposed to be at 11.5 or something) is at absolute zero, it doesn't change with throttle. ALso, my stepper motor does not move at all either.. Did I break the pin inside the housing where the regulator solenoid sits? Is this all caused by my crank sensor (new one's going in tomorrow)? What the hell..:mad:.? How difficult is it to switch over to a manual IP? I have an extra one from a parts motor and am wondering if that's a better idea..? I'll try the new crank sensor tomorrow and report back if anything changes.. Marty :confused:

DickWells

11-11-2009, 04:44

Not much time, here, before I leave for water excercize, but here's a couple of quick thoughts. A mech. IP install isn't hard, but the follow on for transmission control is a bummer. I did it, and glad, but not sure that someone else would be willing to live with the little idiosycracies of the shift quality issues. The stand-alone trans. controls that are available work fine, but last I knew, were right up there in price. $1k~?
Talk again later, and good luck.
Dick:)

Quazzy

11-11-2009, 21:17

Ok, update... Put a crank sensor in today, jumped in the truck and hit the key... popped right off and ran near perfect!! Got my timing dead on a bit after that. Stepper motor and all that garbage is working. Now the only problem is that it hiccups a little bit at all rpms under load. Doesn't have to be much load tho.. Just driving down the road at highway speeds and every once in a while it skips a bit.. Dunno what's going on with that, but I sure am happy it's running 100% better than it was.. Any clues on the missing??
Again, thanks for the help guys! I'm beginning to become addicted to diesel now, haha! I've got an S-10 pickup that I was gonna put a small block in, but now I'm tryin to figure out what kind of diesel I could shove in there.. Hmmm, enough room for an old Detroit 4 banger?? Any cool suggestions for a power plant?:D ~Marty

DickWells

11-12-2009, 04:43

Well, I tried 3 times, yesterday, to post again, and lost it every time!
Have you checked your timing chain for slop? If it's letting the pump kick back and forth as the chain whips, it'll do funny things, I hear. You probably know this, but anyway, you can check this out by removing the oil filler neck.
Glad it's getting down the road better.
Dick:)

6.5 Detroit Diesel

11-12-2009, 10:28

I've got an S-10 pickup that I was gonna put a small block in, but now I'm tryin to figure out what kind of diesel I could shove in there.. Hmmm, enough room for an old Detroit 4 banger?? Any cool suggestions for a power plant?:D ~Marty

Check out the conversions forum. Plenty of ideas in there. An old detroit would be pretty heavy, and in my opinion, would have some highway limits.

maybe a little isuzu diesel? something a little newer? i know that there are some very rare stock S-10 2.2 liter diesels.

JohnC

11-12-2009, 16:16

If you don't have a good oil pressure switch in there, the lift pump isn't running...

Quazzy

11-13-2009, 14:54

Thanks for the idea Dick, but the chain is brand new and nice and tight.. And John, I wired my lift pump to an ignition source, it's workin just peachy.. I'm beginning to think I have a sticky injector or something along those lines.. Either driving or just sitting there idling, it's got one cylinder that will miss and miss, then it'll pop a few times then miss some more.. it's really wierd. After I drive it a while, it clears up for the most part. Sure sounds like crap sitting there idling and popping though, haha! I'll keep investigating and see what i come up with. Seems to be all downhill from here though.. At least it's running and driving and running pretty well..

a5150nut

11-13-2009, 19:10

Crack the injector nuts to locate the bad injector. Just like pulling spark plug wires to find a bad plug.

JohnC

11-14-2009, 20:28

... I wired my lift pump to an ignition source, it's workin just peachy..

Don't leave it that way. It's dangerous aside from being illegal...

Electric fuel pumps must shut off of automatically if the engine stalls.

Quazzy

12-03-2009, 10:29

ok.. This is driving me crazy..! The engine runs nice and tight, my lines are good and airtight, can't find any issues anywhere on the truck that might cause my problems now.. It pops right off when I start it, cold or hot. It runs nice and smooth for about 3-5 minutes, then it starts "popping". It'll miss on 1 or 2 cylinders a couple times then apparently they get a blast of fuel or something and they fire a bit then they miss more.. It just keeps doing this until I drive it at least 5-10 miles. Then it runs near perfect until I shut it off and it sits for at least a few hours. Then it starts all over again.. I was figuring air leak in a fuel line, but I sure can't find any. I just don't understand why it runs like crap, then magically starts running perfect..?? No codes, timing is dead on, have fuel and pressure, everything is grounded well.. I'm gonna burn it soon!! What do ya think?

markelectric

12-03-2009, 18:11

How about a older Ford escort that has the 4cyl diesel for the S-10 swap. Donor car is mechanicaly complete. Body looks like hell, shock towers are gone. I was going to try to shoehorn the diesel into a manlift I have but have since lost access to the machine shop for the ability to create parts............

Quazzy

12-03-2009, 22:27

Naw, I'm tryin to find something to squeeze in that thing that I can make some good power with. Crazy and stupid pretty much haha!:eek: Still haven't found anything that'll work quite right tho... One o' these days..:D

More Power

12-04-2009, 09:53

Not to contradict John, but there are times when using raw fuel to get an engine started can help.

For example, back in the late 1980's, I was 4-wheeling my 6.2L diesel truck on a steep skid trail. The truck did fine pulling the hill, but I only had about 1/2 a tank of fuel. The angle and some bouncing allowed air to enter the fuel line. After about 10 minutes of running, the engine died.

We were "way the hell-n-gone" out in the sticks, and I didn't have any tools with me. I understood what the problem was, but we had limited options. So, I removed a length of vacuum tubing, and used that to siphon a little diesel out of the fuel tank. Then, we dribbled a little fuel into the intake (we had coasted to a relatively flat spot on the logging road). After a half dozen cranking/priming sessions, we finally got the engine running. It would have been a long walk if this hadn't worked.

So, I feel priming can work as long as you don't overdo it. Too much fuel can result in a hydrolock, which can bend rods and break pistons.

Just an FYI.....

Jim

Quazzy

12-06-2009, 22:28

I'm still having problems like I posted a few days ago.. Missing and stuff, then a cylinder or two will fire then miss more.. I dunno what the heck is goin on here.. And now, I'll be headin down the highway, and all of a sudden I'll lose power and boost a little bit and can barely get the truck over 55 or 60mph. And the SES light pops on. Shut it down while I'm rolling and fire it back up and it runs right again. I have a faulty vaccuum solenoid on the turbo at the moment, so I have it just wired open so it'll work. Am I getting too much boost and going into "safe" mode where the computer cuts fuel and boost? Or could this be some other problem on top of all the ones I'm having with the misfiring problems?? Thanks..Marty

ToddMeister

12-07-2009, 07:47

When the lift pump in my 95 quit working, I would also have a skip or miss when getting on the go pedal.

Actually the lift pump was cutting in and out at random, which made it difficult to diagnose at first. One time when the engine was studdering, I pulled over and checked the lift pump and it was not working, but did have power at the pump electrical connector. Replaced the lift pump and now truck runs fine.

Quazzy

12-20-2009, 11:33

Well, I got the turbo set back up the way it's supposed to be now, and my SES and safe mode problems are gone.. Still can't figure out why it's missing though.. I fired it up last night and it ran perfect right from the start, no miss or chugging! Then it sat outside the bar while I was in playing a gig, I came out and fired it up...yup, ran like garbage for a half hour of idling and the first 6 miles of my ride home.. Then it cleared up and ran fine again.. What the hell is going on with this thing?? And, when I have my 12 foot enclosed trailer behind it, you'd swear I was pulling a Sherman tank! It just doesn't seem to have much power. But, when I'm not pulling something the truck really hauls ass pretty well (when it's running halfway decent that is..). I'm just lost here.. Starting to think I shoulda just yanked this ship anchor out and slipped a gas motor in.. Anyone ever have a computer glitch or anything that caused problems like this? Going down the highway when it's running bad is just terrible. It's almost like the shutoff solenoid is clicking on and off or something.. like something is cutting my fuel intermittently? I don't know any more:confused:.. Any guesses? Thanks, Marty:mad:

GMC Hauler

12-20-2009, 20:25

Quazzy

12-21-2009, 11:36

I haven't been able to stick a gauge on it yet, but even when it's running terrible, the pump is still down there chugging away.. So I don't think it's that. But when I get a chance, I'm gonna check my fuel pressure.
But, like I said, it runs perfect after a while of driving it except for a small studder here and there while accelerating. So...WTH? If there's anyone from Minnesota on here that knows of a really knowledgeable diesel mechanic who knows about these motors, please let me know. I'm ready to push this thing into a mine pit (ya, I'm from the Iron Range, and we do have some nice, huge pits up here! haha).. And, I'd like to try a compression test on it, too. Anyone know how many psi I should hit per cylinder? And is the best way to test from the glow plug hole, or injector hole? Or??