"Ticking" now turns to "RAPPING"

[EscaladeDiesel]

Continuing saga...the engine IS back together. Runs and starts great, BUT....the original noise it went in the shop for is STILL there. The mechanic says the he thinks it might be the turbo. Saying it spun around, but not as freely as he thought was optimum. I am of course a bit concerned that now after $700 later, he didn't look for this in the first place. Is it possible for a turbo to make a ticking noise, or better yet, has anyone else had their turbo make such a noise?

[ 01-30-2004, 06:28 AM: Message edited by: EscaladeDiesel ]

[dieseldummy]

What kind of ticking noise is it? Could be exhaust, something rubbing somewhere it shouldn't, almost anything could cause a ticking noise. Need more detailed info on the noise.

[MikeC]

Vacuum pumps are near the turbo and they can make ticking noises.

Mike

[gmctd]

Engine running and warm, but NOT hot, place your bare hands (both of them) firmly on the turbo heat shield.
Move your hands around, firmly, listening for the noise to diminish.

If that doesn't quieten the tick, take a long screwdriver, and using it as a stethoscope (or use a stethoscope), touch various assemblies and appurtenances near the sound to find the source.

(An inexpensive stethoscope can be purchased from Harbor Freight - $2.99+tax.)

It's usually a rocker arm/lifter sound amplified by the turbo cover.

[pannhead]

at 130,000 rpm i dont think its gonna "tick"....a shot in the dark, check the crank pully...good luck

[ucdavis]

A frequent source of "ticking" is one or more injection lines knicking something when the injection pump fires a fuel pulse thru the line. Check to see that all 4 bushings (holding a pair of lines) is properly secured & snug to the head, & that nothing is in the way for when they fire. A common sign that this is the trouble is that the frequency of the tick will increase as RPMs increase.

[EscaladeDiesel]

Originally the engine lost oil when an oil line blew. The oil line and oil were replaced, engine cranked to build up pressure and then started up without any trouble. While driving on the freeway about 10 miles, the loud "ticking" noise appeared and I took it to a diesel mechanic. The ticking seems to be from the turbo side, and it does seem to increase when the Rpm's increase, and increases loudness when the engine warms up and was sometimes not present UNTIL it warmed up. Also, at the same time when the ticking began, the engine developed a distinct miss, and had more than normal white smoke, even when warmed up. The mechanic originally thought the noise to be the lifters, and removed the valve covers. The lifter assemblies and linkages were inspected and he replaced some plastic lifter support pieces while he had access (saying a couple were loose, the actual lifter linkage part name escapes me at the moment). He also replaced 6 of the 8 GPs. While there still is the "ticking" noise, the excessive smoke and miss seem to be gone. Again, although sorta of a side issue at this point, I am confused why the miss and excessive smoke were NOT present before, but only after the loss of oil. Could the oil loss have effected the glow plugs in someway as to have caused the miss and excessive smoke?

[ 01-27-2004, 03:38 AM: Message edited by: EscaladeDiesel ]

[britannic]

Glow plugs don't need oil or oil pressure, so you can rule them out as being damaged due to the line blowing. Lifters however, are very susceptible to oil pressure loss and may end up being damaged to the point they won't lift the valves enough or won't let the valve close properly. From what you say, though, it seems like they may have survived. Did the mechanic remove the heads and/or lifters and inspect them?

Is the ticking half engine speed (cam/valve train related) or at full engine speed?

[EscaladeDiesel]

The "ticking" noise is constant, and seems to speed up as the engine speeds up. I don't believe he took the heads off. The lifters looked good at visual inspeciton he said, but a platic part was loose on some, so he said he replaced them to be safe, the "ticking" noise was not effected by this AT ALL.

[EscaladeDiesel]

Just got back from my mechanic. I gave him all the suggestions and info you all gave me. He had the turbo off and started it up. The "tickng" was still there (albeit a bit hard to tell with the noise of having no turbo on. He is now suspecting it is an injector(s)! He was checking each one on that side using some flexible line that he connected to it, have never seen injectors checked.

[britannic]

The plastic part is the retainer that stops the rocker arms from traveling up and down the rocker shaft. Lifters need to be removed and disassembled to assess damage - external examination won't reveal much. My failed lifters looked perfect externally, but internally were leaking down. It's important that you determine if the tick is half or full engine speed, so that you know if it's crank component related or valve train.

Injectors can tick as well, but wouldn't normally be damaged due to oil pressure loss.

The turbo doesn't sync exactly to engine speed, but is load and throttle related and it spins very, very fast (50k - 150k rpm upward), which tends to rule out ticking from that source.

[Peter J. Bierman]

A stuck injector can couse a funny sound like you discribe, the injector stuck closed couses a firm tick, an injector stuck open couses white smoke and misfires.
So you have left; the lifters or injectors.

Peter

[EscaladeDiesel]

This morning my Diesel Mechanic called and me and says he is at a loss at finding the source of the "ticking" on the right side. Although he is an experienced Diesel Mechanic, he is not as experienced on 6.5's. He says the injectors are fine and the turbo is OK. I have passed along all the good info. given. He asked me who was giving me all the info and I told him a friend who worked on Diesels <at this point I do consider everyone hear a friend for sure>. Anyway, he says he was going to remove the valve cover one more time, and check things out again. He even asked if he could talk to "My friend" to discuss anything else he might do. Is there anymore specific information I can pass along to him or anyone care to volunteer to let him call you? I am in a desperate situation here and not sure what to do.

[cruzer]

The only thing that I'm curious about from reading one of your past posts is, and maybe someone can answer. I can't really remember,but don't you have to have the head off to gain access to the lifters?

This would be messy but how about removing the valve cover then hooking up the injection lines and run w/the cover off. He could see if lifters
are pumping and ck w/a stethiscope each individual rocker arm. Also remove ck rocker arms,
shafts and valve spring reainers for wear.

While running has he opened each injector line to see if ticking goes away when open?

Injector lines touching metal as previously stated.

Just throwing out suggestions, Good luck!

[EscaladeDiesel]

Thanks, I am just thankful everyone likes to help out here. There is NO bad form of advice or suggestion at this point.

[britannic]

Originally posted by cruzer:
The only thing that I'm curious about from reading one of your past posts is, and maybe someone can answer. I can't really remember,but don't you have to have the head off to gain access to the lifters?

This would be messy but how about removing the valve cover then hooking up the injection lines and run w/the cover off. He could see if lifters
are pumping and ck w/a stethiscope each individual rocker arm. Also remove ck rocker arms,
shafts and valve spring reainers for wear.

While running has he opened each injector line to see if ticking goes away when open?

Injector lines touching metal as previously stated.

Just throwing out suggestions, Good luck! You can remove the lifters without taking off the heads, but extreme patience, valium to steady the hands, an extending magnetic pickup, flexible light to lower into the tappet chest and remote pickup claw are advised. Getting them out is easy, it's replacing them the right way that's hard.

[pannhead]

i know this is basic common sense, but did your mechanic take the belt off,then run the engine (not too long :eek: ) to rule out the accessories (ie: alt,a/c comprossor,water pump etc) ???....i hope this works out ok for ya..i know that spot your in and sometimes you get lucky...good luck

[kowsoc]

Good point Pannhead ;) ...sometimes simple things are overlooked. I would remove the valve cover, run the engine, and carefully touch each rocker arm one at a time. You will be able to feel which one is "hammering".

Also a leak or crack in the exhaust manifold can make a "tick".

Good luck....keep posting.

[britannic]

You can save yourself a lot of work (removing manifold, inj. lines, valve covers and then refitting the lines etc.) by getting a mechanics stethoscope and listening to the idling engine by resting the stetho. probe on the cover above each pair of rockers. YMMV, but I did this and pinpointed my bad lifters (using different listening positions on the valve covers) within 5 minutes or so.

[EscaladeDiesel]

This morning my mechanic told me that yesterday while listening to the ticking it suddenly turned into a "rapping" noise and the engine began to run poorly again. He is suspecting that it could be a wrist pin. Any advice on that? Thanks

[markrinker]

Lifters. First to fry under low/no oil condition. Also explains why the engine starts to buck and miss when the rapping starts. Lifters problems will come and go, a bad wrist pin will typically be constant.

Are you paying this manic-mechanic to learn on your truck? With all respect, I think you need a new mechanic that can tell YOU what is wrong and get on with the repair. This is not rocket science. He is the 'professional' working at $90/hr on your behalf. Raise hell with his manager about him learning on your dime and 'troubleshooting by componant removal'.

The kid is either too inexperienced to be working on your engine, or is milking it for all its worth. Don't be so nice.

[autocrosser]

If it's a wrist pin you should be able to back off on each injector line nut one at a time and as the cylinder goes dead the sound whould change if you are on the right cylinder. In any case it should identify a cylinder problem even if it's a rod. It might or might not identify a problem with a main but you should see oil pressure loss if you have bearing troubles (that is when it's hot and the oil thins down.

If worse comes to worse you might try putting some lighter weight oil in it temporarily and see if it gets worse. It might identify any bearing troubles.

You can also remove the serpentine belt and start it to identify if you have any troubles related to Vac pump/water pump/alternator or idler pulleys.

[cubby]

I just replied to another post about the crankshaft damper. I had a loud tick that took me a long time to find it was the damper . It was slapping metal to metal becuase the rubber was wasted. Even after fixing it, a few months went by and I ended up breaking the crankshaft in half.

[ucdavis]

I gotta agree w/Mark Rinker. Finding a noise that varies w/engine RPMs should not take a good mechanic more than 30 minutes or so. He should be using an automotive stethoscope, be probing around to eliminate various areas & zero in on it fairly quick. Especially w/drivability problems to aid in the diagnosis.
Your immediate trouble is the mechanic.

[britannic]

The mechanic should have been able to decide if it's half engine speed (something driven by the camshaft) or something else driven by the crankshaft. A wrist pin rap/slap will be synchronized with engine speed.

[EscaladeDiesel]

Spoke with my mechanic Friday. He says its definately (famous last words)the valve-train, and is going to take off the head and check things out. He says he's just been swamped with his "fleet diesel work" Hopefully I will know something this week and can report back to you all. OH, is there any other things he need to check for while he' got the head off, or any other things I need to have him do while while it is in the shop? Thanks