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DieselDavey
05-15-2009, 14:40
Blazen' Burbans!

How do you like yours? Sweet BBQ or Hot?

Mine was Blazing Fire today!

Yep! Toasted. It did not taste so well!

I was pulling my camper the 30 miles from home to the R.V. resort I belong too.

Before leaving home, I noticed the umbilical that plugs into the tow vehicle from the camper had a few connectors that were a bit rusty or one side had broken off.

I stopped by the General RV store about 1/4 way to the campground & picked up a few things for the camper, including a new 8 pin connector. I planned on putting the new connector on this evening.

Pulling out of the RV store, I thought I smelled something burning. It was not "someones got a fire going" or the typical "leaf fire" smell... it was that industrial plastic burning smell.

I rolled down the window, and could faintly smell that the odor was coming from outside. No worries.

In extremely heavy traffic, I was in the left hand turn lane to get on the expressway when the Burbs brakes completely failed.

The only thing that stopped me was my trailer brakes.

I noticed a small bit of smoke coming from the drivers side, close to the cab. Smack where the Master cylinder and brake systems are. I thought that the smoke might be from brake fluid baking on the hot engine (This is also the same location where the main electrical systems are).

I could not get over to the right, and pull over to the side of the road. I was committed to getting on the expressway.

I figured I would limp along on the shoulder and get off at the next exit. The next exit was 4 miles away.

Driving on the shoulder, getting close to the next exit, it was time to slow down (I was only going 30 mph).

Hitting the brakes, that is when I started to smell the smoke and see the drivers side, close to the cab, part of my beautiful white hood stating to turn a bit brown.

OH FRICKEN NO!

I knew (DUH) that I had a fire.

What a hopeless feeling.

I called 911 as soon as I could. I have a PDA Phone. These are not quick. I strongly suggest having a normal cell phone in the vehicle for emergency purposes.

I tried to pop the hood. Hood would not open. DAMMIT!

I had a 10 LB extinguisher in the camper. I got it out as soon as I could... no use. I squirted the extinguisher down between the window and the hood.

Good people at at Heavy Equipment factory just off the expressway tossed a couple of 30lb dry chemical extinguisher's over the fence.

I used both. Fuel or something was dripping on the ground and catching on fire. I was able to put that out twice. I used a 30lb to squirt under the fender where there was flame on the drivers side engine. I tried to get up as high (between the engine and the fender) as I could without burning myself.

Thick black smoke sucks!

After the extinguishers were, well, extinguished, I realized that this was the Titanic and it was time to abandon ship.

I have never loved a vehicle before. I loved this Burb. How awful to watch her melt.

Removed personal effects asap (including the notebook computer I'm now typing on).

I disconnected the trailer as fast as possible.

Wiring umbilical connector was partially melted.

Disconnected the propane tanks and moved them a safe distance from the fire.

That's when I finally heard the sirens.

The fire dept. started to hose her down. They used a huge pry bar to get the hood open. Used another type of bar to keep the hood open.

What a friggin mess!

I was asked all sorts of questions about if I just had work done on the vehicle, what were the symptoms etc...

Starting back...

The Check Engine light came on as always after my first stop towing. The code is always PO236 and P1656.

I Lubricated the waste gate actuator and solenoid a couple weeks ago (solenoid is one year old) with WD 40. I thought that might take care of the code. Seems like maybe an over boost is causing the code from a sticky wastegate.

When I first got the burb a little over a year ago, I wired the trailer brakes myself. I followed the directions found here on this board. I used 10 gauge wire from the Aux. Power post to the brake controller. Also had a 30 amp self resetting breaker on the post to the 10 gauge to the controller. All connections were soldered and heat shrink wrapped. This has always worked flawlessly.

The only other major work I performed on the burb was to replace the power steering pump (shaft broke).

Up until the end, the only lights on the dash were check engine and brake lights. Temperature gauge normal (Around 200 pulling camper).

Questions:

Does anyone think that the added resistance of the camper brakes (due to the rusted connector to the camper) would have overheated the wiring, causing an electrical fire?

Keep in mind I had a 30 amp fuse, and the trailer brakes functioned normally till the end.

The umbilical connector was melted. The Fire Department thought that might have been because I was relying solely on the trailer brakes for stopping. I was watching my prodigy brake controller. It never went over 4.5 volts.

Do you think that a ruptured brake line or something with the master cylinder caused the fire?

Has this happened to anyone else?

A very nice couple (They are Campers... Campers are always the best people) stopped and pulled me and my rig to the campground where I am now typing this to you.

I was about to put mega bucks into my Burb. My new 3" down pipe and 4" exhaust just arrived at home today... The wife called and asked if she should reject the delivery... I told her to accept, as I don't know what the insurance company will do.

Well, my enthusiasm for these little critters has diminished greatly.

I"m pretty sure the Burb is going to be totalled by the insurance company.

I'm wondering what to do for a replacement.

I loved, loved, loved the burb! I need a vehicle that I can lug Musical equipment, groceries, and pull my camper.

The damn pickups with the 1/2 back doors just don't work for me.

Excursions where too expensive.

So here I am.

What would you do?

I hesitate to buy another burb.

I really wish I knew what caused the fire.

I don't think it was electrical due to the camper because the brakes functioned even with the fire.

What do you think?

I love this community here. God Bless...

Dave

NutNbutGMC
05-15-2009, 16:41
:d Sorry about the vehicle.... :d

.

stingthieves
05-15-2009, 18:46
Blazen' Burbans!


In extremely heavy traffic, I was in the left hand turn lane to get on the expressway when the Burbs brakes completely failed.

The only thing that stopped me was my trailer brakes.

I noticed a small bit of smoke coming from the drivers side, close to the cab. Smack where the Master cylinder and brake systems are. I thought that the smoke might be from brake fluid baking on the hot engine (This is also the same location where the main electrical systems are).

Dave

Its also the under hood location of the (now to me infamous) 4WAL ABS unit, and it is allegedly prone to bypassing (symptom as a faulty master cyl) and causing complete brake failure (a 97 pickup crashed at low speed in my parking lot from a compete loss of brake last year) couldn't believe it - I mean its ABS supposed to be safe right?????

-- well my money is on that little puppy - complete and sudden loss of vehicle brakes. Think about it besides a failure of two lines at the same time on front and back circuits -- what else could cause this??? Radical shorting in the wiring -- should be protected with sacrificial fuseable links, but I have noted these over wired in DIY trailer brake installations. Not saying you did - just noting....


BTW my 4WAL failed last month and I am removing it vs replacing. I love ABS in the winter, but I love a good solid brake more. It took me a month of asking questions and digging facts to finally give up on the 4WAL ABS and go backwards to contrive something more simple.

Your mileage may vary - Sorry for your loss - glad your OK
Sting

DieselDavey
05-15-2009, 19:18
It was a sudden complete loss of braking. IIRC the manufacturer of the anti lock brake unit was Kelsey Hayes.

Damn. Was there a recall on the units put into the 1999 vehicles?

Do you think that pouring brake fluid/ power steering fluid on the hot manifold would cause a under hood fire?

ronniejoe
05-15-2009, 21:45
Do you think that pouring brake fluid/ power steering fluid on the hot manifold would cause a under hood fire?

Absolutely. If the ABS unit failed and caused a fluid leak, that could explain it.

I'm really sorry about losing your Burb. I really like mine as well, so I understand.

JohnC
05-16-2009, 07:27
You say you smelled burning plastic before the brake failure. I'd think that points to an electrical problem first....

Either way, sorry for your loss...

DieselDavey
05-16-2009, 08:43
Thanks John...

Seems likely to me as well.

So strange, everything was working.

Do you think that there is any possibility of the bad connector to the camper causing this fire?

I thought all the electrical would have fuses to prevent this.

My wiring to the brake controller was fused, and heavy 10 gauge.

I don't get it.

Yukon6.2
05-16-2009, 08:57
Hi
Major bummer on losing your truck.If it was doing what you wanted,buy another and keep your burnt one for parts if you have the room.I'v used 3 engins from burnt vehicals and havn't had any issues with them,just make sure their is no water in it buy turning it over then spray some oil in the glow plug holes and it sould be good as a backup to a new to you burban.
Good Luck with the insurance
Thomas

6.5 Detroit Diesel
05-16-2009, 09:23
Dang, really sorry to hear. That really sucks man, but glad no one was hurt!

Hmm, reading this really pushes me to get a fire extinguisher in my truck, especially with my current electrical problems that keep popping up.

Beedee
05-16-2009, 10:17
Sorry to hear about the Burb Dave. It really bites when something like this happens.

On the good side. No one was hurt.
Just remember, the burb can be replaced.

YOU CAN'T BE REPLACED

If the suburban was doing what you wanted, and you liked it, why not get another one.

DieselDavey
05-16-2009, 10:20
Thanks guys!

Wish I could get down to the bottom of this!

Yeah... If I end up getting another burb, I would like to salvage the engine, Trans & Tires.

I don't know if the insurance company would allow that if the thing is totaled out (I'm 99% sure that I'll be getting a check).

I can't stress how important a fire extinguisher is! The 10 lb extinguisher I had was like pissing in a volcano... I highly recommend at least a 20lb ABC or Co2 (Do not store the Co2 inside cab).

Ironic thing... I was looking at 6.5 trucks a couple of weeks ago just for entertainment... I saw a picture of an 6.5 used as a City Water Dept vehicle... it had an automatic fire extinguisher permanently mounted to the engine!

JohnC
05-16-2009, 13:25
An electrical fire is most often caused by a combination of high current draw and high resistance. This generates heat and eventually ignites the insulation.

I can't see how the bad connector in the bumper could be the culpret, unless a wire there shorted (melted) to another wire in the harness that ended up heating something under the hood.

My WAG would be that there was a lousy connection at the fuse panel, maybe for the trailer aux circuit, that started it all. Or maybe it was just a coincidence...

ronniejoe
05-16-2009, 14:46
I don't know if the insurance company would allow that if the thing is totaled out (I'm 99% sure that I'll be getting a check).

Once the insurance company and I have agreed to an amount for compensation for the loss of the vehicle, I've been able to negotiate a "buy back" price for totaled vehicles in the past. This amount is then deducted from the compensation check and w all go away happy. I’ve done this two or three times over the years.

Good luck!

rustyk
05-16-2009, 21:16
Buyback is generally around 22% (Salvage Value) of the totalled vehicle.

Burning Oil
05-16-2009, 21:41
Sorry to hear your news. I know it hurts right now, but it will pass and you will be driving another cool truck soon!

DieselDavey
05-17-2009, 10:06
Thanks for you support everyone!

I'm seriously considering an Excursion... Something I don't have to modify or worry about cracked blocks...

I have been looking around the country for 6.5 Suburbans... I found a cool 94 that has already been converted to burn Veggie Oil... But it is having IP & PMD Troubles... plus it has over 250,000 miles on it.

I'm also thinking about Excursions... I found a great looking, mechanically sound 04, 6.0 liter. The IP and Injectors were already changed (these were problematic with the 6.0). I can buy an 150,000 mile warranty for around $400.00. Asking price is 10,250. I'm thinking of digging down and paying the extra for a warrented vehicle that can tow my heavy camper with out all sorts of modifications.

God, I loved the Burbs... I'm starting to think those days are over. I got 10,000 miles out of mine, with many minor repairs and parts, before she caught fire.

Any one here have anything good/ bad to say about the Excursions?

Thanks!

6.5 Detroit Diesel
05-17-2009, 10:31
Friends of ours have a 2000 Ex. with the 7.3 in it. They have a lot of young boys, and they have beaten the crap out of that thing, and it's still running. No slouch either, they chipped it, put a "hot air intake" on it, :rolleyes: , and a 5" straight pipe.

But I still beat them. :D

I honestly don't know if I would ever touch a 6.0 PS. The best years of those didn't come until 2006.

HH
05-17-2009, 16:34
Do you think that pouring brake fluid/ power steering fluid on the hot manifold would cause a under hood fire?

Brake fluid is highly combustible. You can go to the NHTSA website (http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/) for recall and service bulletins. Nothing related to recalls on your brake systems. IIRC there was an investigation done on the mid - late 90s GM trucks for the ABS system.

Kick Ass Matt
05-19-2009, 07:56
Thanks for you support everyone!

I'm seriously considering an Excursion... Something I don't have to modify or worry about cracked blocks...

I have been looking around the country for 6.5 Suburbans... I found a cool 94 that has already been converted to burn Veggie Oil... But it is having IP & PMD Troubles... plus it has over 250,000 miles on it.

I'm also thinking about Excursions... I found a great looking, mechanically sound 04, 6.0 liter. The IP and Injectors were already changed (these were problematic with the 6.0). I can buy an 150,000 mile warranty for around $400.00. Asking price is 10,250. I'm thinking of digging down and paying the extra for a warrented vehicle that can tow my heavy camper with out all sorts of modifications.

God, I loved the Burbs... I'm starting to think those days are over. I got 10,000 miles out of mine, with many minor repairs and parts, before she caught fire.

Any one here have anything good/ bad to say about the Excursions?

Thanks!

I'd stay away from the 6.0. The good one's were the 7.3 IDI motors.

Thanks,
Matt

DmaxMaverick
05-19-2009, 08:00
The 7.3L IDI was never offered OEM in an Excursion. It went extinct after 1995. Only the Powerstroke was available, 7.3L early, and 6.0L after 2003.

DieselDavey
05-19-2009, 13:00
Thanks Everyone!

If ya happen to see a good 6.5 Suburban, could ya let me know? Looking more for a southern vehicle... One without the rust.

Same goes for Excursions. Seems DMax is right again... The 7.3's are pre- 2003.

I wonder if a high mileage 6.0 would have the bugs worked out?

I have pics of the Burned Suburban... I will post tomorrow.

Sure looks like the fire started in the electrical center (Fuse Box) near the master cylinder. My trailer brake wiring did not show signs of overload as far as I could tell.



Thanks again everyone!

Locomoko
05-27-2009, 17:50
Very sorry for your loss. I love my burb too, would hate to see it go like that, so sudden.

On the wiring/connectors issue, what I know about connections generally is that with time they get resistive, (dielectric will slow the process) As resistance increases so does heat. If the resistive point causes enough heat the wire sheath will melt... then when the wires are touching each other you will have bubbly melt back to the source of current! It is something that can happen very quickly and is frightening to observe when you don't have a way to stop it. :eek: Mommy!

Hindsight is always 20/20 so don't get me wrong, but it is for others too, when wiring use the correct size wire and fuse for the load, perhaps fusing the brakes and running light seperately. Analyze the circuit.

Could the fuse be on the tail end of the cicuit? Yes, which would prevent the wires from melting together. :)

IMO, there is no other vehicle that rides like a burb and since you know what to look for, well its just a matter of which color to choose, right?

Take care, Locomoko

JohnC
05-28-2009, 09:32
The wire gauge should be chosen based on the circuit load. The fuse must be chosen based on the wire size, irrespective of the load. The purpose of the fuse is to protect the wire from melting, not to protect the load. The fuse should be placed as close to the power source (+) as possible as nothing between the fuse and the power source is protected from a short, which could include a different wire melting into it.

DieselDavey
05-28-2009, 20:34
Thanks Guys!

I used a 30 amp self resetting fuse connected directly on the aux power post with a ring tongue crimp on.

10 gauge wire going to the brake controller.

All Connections soldered and heat shrink.

I've been looking all over for 6.5's and Excursions with the 7.3... Very hard to find!

Found a SWEET 6.5 Burb in CA. I think its still available on ebay. I can't make the ride (just got back to work, YEA!!!).

I had my eye on this one:

http://www.minnehanonline.com/vehicledetails.aspx?VID=97495054

They said that the engine was rebuilt 80,000 miles ago. I just could not take the risk. Also, that's a bit much truck to be my wife's daily driver.

People are hanging onto their diesels!

When you find a good used one... main stream banks won't finance 'em. I have stellar credit, and my bank won't finance a high miler.

I found a place in Ohio that imports Excursions, and F250's from Florida. We took the two and a half hour drive to Shurewood Ohio... every one I test drove had front end trouble. Besides that... they were very clean and close to perfect. I had a hard time getting financing, and did not want to drive a sloppy one all the way home.

I settled on a Chevy 2500 HD 6.0 gasser :(

Sweeeeet truck! I really wanted a diesel. Oh well. I'll find another someday.

I found that credit unions will still work with people that need a good used high mileage vehicle.

Attached are some pice for those with morbid curiosity.

Seems the fire started in the electrical center near the master cylinder. Nothing left of either.

I have around 10 pics... how do you submit more than 5? I'll do a search.

(Edit: Seems I have to shrink the picture file size... to whipped to do it now, will do next week when back from vacation).

Thanks everyone for all the great advise over the last year!

What a great experience, and a great community!

surfbeetle
11-03-2009, 20:32
I'm glad to hear that you and your camper came out okay. Sorry to hear about the 'burb. The only thing that I can offer is that you should check your trailer for any short circuits. Maybe it had the short but the wiring at the engine compartment started burning before a fuse/circuit breaker tripped and possibly the cause was the trailer. The way that these trailers are built, it could easily be the culprit.

jhornsby3
11-08-2009, 01:13
Folks just two doors over have/had one. They woke up to it burning in the driveway the other night. Seems they have issues with a sensor failing in the braking system and if not fixed under the recall then it can short out and cause an electrical fire. So there you go. You can have the same issue from a Furd. The fire caused the front tire to blow and it put the rim with blazing rubber in it through the garage door. They were told the sensor was replaced and it had in fact not been. Furd is sending someone out to look at it and they said they will pay for the Ex and the damage to the house.

John