Function and Capability of 6.5lt ECM?

[merlot566jka]

I am looking for the capabilities of the 6.5l ecm. Like what it controls, what it monitors, obd1 or obd2?

Just for the sake of satisfaction, its for using an m90 supercharger on a 6.2l. I want to have ecm control and monitoring capability.

1. How is the IP controlled by the ecm?

2. What is the extent of the control?

3. Whats the service number for the ecm?

4. Is it obd1 or obd2?

5. What sensors does it use to monitor? (ie map, maf, cts, iat, tps, o2/egt etc etc)

6. What are the outputs for the ecm? (gauges, trans control, bcm, ABS etc)

Thanks a head of time folks. Hope to get some good info!

[merlot566jka]

Really? No one here knows anything about their ecm?

Who does their own tuning around here?

[kojo]

1) these ecm controlled 65 diesels has different pump (ds4) then old 6,2's, in pump is optical sensor which reads pump position and rotating speed, sepper motor which adjusts cam ring postion= timing and fuel solenoid, when its got power pump will inject fuel.

2) because of my lack of vocabilirity and bad english i dont understand question, sorry :o

3) for 1995 it's 16212488 dont know others, 94 could be same, but 96 and yanger are different.

4)1194 and 1995 are obd1, newer are obd2

5) Throttle position, IAT, ECT, optic sensor, crank position sensor, baro, MAP, and transmission sensors (like temp, current gear, input&output speeds, throttle postion) some obd2 vehicles have also MAF

6) ECM controls only engine and trans, cauges has their own senders and abs has it's own box.

Here aren't many tuners, some of vendors and from invidual peoples me...

[merlot566jka]

Thanks! that's what I was looking for!

Map and baro? why?

ECT? really? I thought that was for electronic spark?



As far as the extent, I meant how much can you change when tuning? Like such as timing, amount of fuel sent, pressure, etc etc

[kojo]

cmputer uses ECT to adjust injection timing and glow time, and it also makes defueling if ECT or IAT goes too high.

In "F" engine there are some altitude parameters and MAP-BARO=Boost Pressure, computer wants know that because it controls wastegate too. Light duty engines uses BARO sensor for some egr crap..

Fuel pressure isn't adjustable, but timing and amount of fuel are. for timing there is more space to adjust then engine can handle and for amount 80mm3 is (stock 6.5 with out turbo is 49mm3, S engine 56 and f 65mm3) piece of cake from normal pumps (like 5521) there is also 5068 HO pump for 1994 HD engines, i dont know how much it coud inject fuel, but it needs own chip because there are diffrences in timing and fuel rate.
Some one who knows more about these could tell something, i need more fuel for my engine :D my 5521 is already maxed out, it has very strong optic bump (fuel rate@idle is 1-2mm3, had to do some compensation to chip) and its chipped to that 80mm3.

[Robyn]

Please do not be offended

Using any of the 6.5 ECM systems (OBD1 94/95) or (OBD 2 96 and later) would IMHO be a very large mistake.

The ECM controls all facets of the fuel system and the manifold pressure as well as timing too.

ECM also controls the auto trans too (If applicable) sensing road speed engine RPM and load/demand.

The sensors are as follows

Crank position sensor
Coolant temp sensor
Map sensor
APS (Atmospheric) sensor
Cam position sensor (Internal IP)
Optical sensor (Internal IP)

The later units had a couple more me thinks
MAF and possibly one more on OBD 2 stuff

The DS4 injection pump is controlled by signals from the ECM and the fuel solenoid is operated by the PMD (Pump mounted driver) which enhances the low voltage signals into heavier power to drive the solenoid.

The DS4 has an optical sensor internally that controls timing (tells ecm actual position of pump)

The DS4 and related system is sweet "When its working right" BUTTTT
When issues arise it can be a nightmare.

These systems have been problematic over the years and most any of us with one would gladly trade it for a 4911 DB2

If you want to run a supercharger on a 6.2 the best program would be to fuel the beast with a 4911 DB2 and set up a wategate to dump any excess pressure beyond xx Pounds depending on how the setup all works out.

Max EGT should be no more than 1000F to 1100F at the manifold outlet

12 PSI max without a charge cooler and 15 PSI with charge cooler

If you are using a 6.2 use late felpro 6.5 head gaskets if you want to keep things sealed.

6.2 gaskets dont have the updated stainless reinforcements on the ends to stop leaks into the coolant passages.

Not quite sure just what you want to try and accomplish but the use of a super charger has been done on 6.2's and the Turbo usually makes more power with less problems.

The Super charger takes Crank HP to run it and this alone will negate some of the returns in and of itself.

I had considered a supercharger at one time but after considering all the pertinent info it became clear that the turbo was far and away a better choice with less issues.

Anyway, this said, have fun with the project and do keep us posted as to your progress.

Sometimes its not the destination that counts but instead the journey :D

Best

Missy Robyn

[merlot566jka]

Please do not be offended

Using any of the 6.5 ECM systems (OBD1 94/95) or (OBD 2 96 and later) would IMHO be a very large mistake.

The ECM controls all facets of the fuel system and the manifold pressure as well as timing too.

ECM also controls the auto trans too (If applicable) sensing road speed engine RPM and load/demand.

The sensors are as follows

Crank position sensor
Coolant temp sensor
Map sensor
APS (Atmospheric) sensor
Cam position sensor (Internal IP)
Optical sensor (Internal IP)

The later units had a couple more me thinks
MAF and possibly one more on OBD 2 stuff

The DS4 injection pump is controlled by signals from the ECM and the fuel solenoid is operated by the PMD (Pump mounted driver) which enhances the low voltage signals into heavier power to drive the solenoid.

The DS4 has an optical sensor internally that controls timing (tells ecm actual position of pump)

The DS4 and related system is sweet "When its working right" BUTTTT
When issues arise it can be a nightmare.

These systems have been problematic over the years and most any of us with one would gladly trade it for a 4911 DB2

If you want to run a supercharger on a 6.2 the best program would be to fuel the beast with a 4911 DB2 and set up a wategate to dump any excess pressure beyond xx Pounds depending on how the setup all works out.

Max EGT should be no more than 1000F to 1100F at the manifold outlet

12 PSI max without a charge cooler and 15 PSI with charge cooler

If you are using a 6.2 use late felpro 6.5 head gaskets if you want to keep things sealed.

6.2 gaskets dont have the updated stainless reinforcements on the ends to stop leaks into the coolant passages.

Not quite sure just what you want to try and accomplish but the use of a super charger has been done on 6.2's and the Turbo usually makes more power with less problems.

The Super charger takes Crank HP to run it and this alone will negate some of the returns in and of itself.

I had considered a supercharger at one time but after considering all the pertinent info it became clear that the turbo was far and away a better choice with less issues.

Anyway, this said, have fun with the project and do keep us posted as to your progress.

Sometimes its not the destination that counts but instead the journey :D

Best

Missy Robyn

No offense taken, that's why I am here asking questions! :)

You can see in my post over in the 6.2 section all about the boost blow off valve.

The m90 can make about 14psi before it become inefficient. And there will be an aftercooler regardless of the boost level!

6.5 felpro headgaskets, gotcha. Got a part number by chance?

And of course the turbo makes more power and is less fuss. But I want to supercharge this. Kind of for sh!ts n giggles. I have a spare supercharger and really just had a light glow above my head...

[convert2diesel]

Robyn:

There has been all sorts of discussion regarding the parasitic load on the engine from forced induction. While I fully agree that at full throttle, full load, the turbo will give you a greater net gain, most people don't drive their vehicles with their foot flat on the floor except on rare occassions. Rarely do you see a discussion on the merits of either of the methods with an emphasis on anything other then maximium output. The whole thing changes when you start talking partial throttle.

What our friend here is trying to do is best utilize an M90 Eaton that he already owns. I have also looked at using this or the M122 as an alternative but in my design, I hope to drive it with a hydraulic pump and motor, as oppossed to directly. I have a number of reasons and justifications for this line of thinking.

The first is a severe lack of real estate under the hood. A turbo installation would represent a plumbers nightmare and adding an intercooler would be nigh on impossible. The other, and to me more important, are the losses associated with part throttle application. A blower, set up to by-pass all but maybe 1 or 2 Lbs of boost at part throttle, requires very little HP (the M90 only needs about 2HP to maintain 1.5 Lbs) to operate. A well designed dual exhaust will give you up to 15 additional HP so the blower loss is negated by an efficient exhaust. Even at 14 Lbs, this little blower is only chewing up about 50HP (according to the company's compressor maps). If my calculations are anywhere near accurate, at 14 PSI and 600 CFM, you should be able to achieve a net HP figure of around 255 to 260 HP just by turning up the pump. Just by flattening out the torque curve, the effects would be significant.

A turbo on the other hand needs to produce at least 2 Lbs. (sometimes more depending on the design) just to compensate for the exhaust flow restrictions inherent in turbo plumbing. Thus at part throttle, the turbo represents a net loss, requiring more fuel then is necessary, just to breath right.

For a balls to the wall barnstormer you can't beat a turbo (unless your running nitro-methane) but for overall drivability and pulling power the blower may have some merit.

Bill