Splayed Main Caps?

[DieselDavey]

Hello All,

Well, I'm getting cabin fever and dreaming about pulling my camper this Summer.

I plan on adding big exhaust, intercooler, gauges, Amsoil synthetic w/ bypass filtration, and Kennedy fan clutch.

Then I would like to up the power with flashed PCM and Turbo Master.

Is it ok to add power on a higher mileage engine (177,000 miles) without splayed main caps?

I tow the camper about 4 times a year, small trips from Detroit area to Northern Michigan, and Canada... I would like to do more (maybe Southern States in winter).

Thanks,

[DaveBr]

Go for the whole enchalada. My rig had more miles on it than yours when I started doing mods and I'am happy to report that it runs better, stronger and burns less oil than it used to. I "B-trained" my trailer & boat over 3,000 miles last year. I personally think the pyro and temp gauge are the two biggy's you need to keep your eye on when your hitting big hills. Both are necessary saftey devices to stop you from cooking it's goose.

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

+1 on what Dave said. The power you are going to be making with the cooling mods you are adding won't be enough to make your engine split on you.

[DieselDavey]

Thats great to hear!

I'm going for it! One project at a time...

This should keep me busy every weekend til end of Spring!

Thanks again,

[Robyn]

The 6.5 is a very rugged power plant overall.

Some blocks are going to crack even if you only drove it to Church on Sunday..

So far the best fix I am seeing for these things is the Lock N Stitch inserts for the outer bolt holes in the mains (center 3)

This fix is reasonable to do (Cost wise) and not only repairs the issues that exist but also stop any more from happening.

The other nice part of this fix is that it does not require a complete rebore or the mainline.

The block does need to come apart completely and be cleaned thoroughly after the work.

I wont say anything bad about splayed caps simply because it is a sound machine shop practice.

BUTTTTTTTT for a lot less $$$$ the inserts will repair the block and ensure that it wont fail in that area again.

[DickWells]

If I had that much mileage on my 6.5 and was going to get inside of the engine at all, there are two things that I would do.* I'd make sure that the damper was OK and if not sure, I would change it. *I'd change out the timing set, chain and sprockets at a minimum, or go the whole way and put in Phazer Gears. You're bound to have some slop in the timing chain at this point. The best mod that I did to the Burb, other than the mech. pump, was the Phazer Gears. I don't know what an OEM set would cost today, but I would think it would eat up a fair portion of the $400 ~ for the gears. Just my opinion, but for the money, that's where I saw the best change. More power, and a more solid sounding/feeling engine, overall.
Good luck.
Dick Wells:)

[DieselDavey]

Thanks Robyn and Dick,

I want a sound stock motor before I go adding HP.

Dick, I was worried about the timing chain and have considered the Phazers. I did not know that just adding the gears would improve performance!

Ok, so its Amsoil with Bypass and new Oil Cooler/ lines first. Then, Exhaust, then Phazers, then Gauges, then Intercooler.

Well, there goes $2500! :)

Guess the chip will have to wait till 2010!

[DickWells]

Oh, I'd go for the chip (a good one) before I'd spend the big money it'll take to put in an IC. My Banks chip never did a thing for me that I could ever detect. The JK tune has a much better reputation. IIRC, the Heath chip is also good. My big SpearCo IC cost me over $1200 way back in 99 or 00. While the EGT's were kept lower, I'm sure, the IC was there, along with the Banks chip, but no real power gains could be felt. The JK boost fooler was a good gain for the money, as was the timing gear set. Have to admit though, that I ended up with a fair power boost in the end, and that it sort of sneaked in there little by little. Never did make any before and after timed runs.
In my oppinion, it's better to have a boost gauge and EGT gauges to let you know what kind of strain you're subjecting the engine to, especially if money for an IC is a concern. If you don't let the 4L80 slip, and keep the EGT's down, and don't over boost it, then I'd think you wouldn't hurt it.
FWIW, my Burb has a huge factory trans cooler ahead of the radiator. Don't know if all the F rated units did or not. I NEVER had a trans temp problem. Most of the time it ran about 170, and seldom got to 210 on my Isspro gauge. I do have a deep aluminum pan, though. I towed 7200+ lbs behind that thing for many thousands of miles without trouble, most of it with a full load inside the Burb that I always thought was something around 1500 lbs, if you include the 17 ft canoe on top.
Also, I estimate that I have put about $5-$6K into the old Burb over the years! It'll soak up money if you let it, but as I've said many times, I love that old truck to death.
Keep in touch and good luck. Any questions, let us know. I'm not the brightest bulb in the string, but I can pass along about 140 K milels of towing experience with a 6.5, plus further info on all those add-ons that that 5-6 K bought.:D
Dick Wells:)

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

A nice free flowing exhaust will go a loooooonnnnngggg way to keeping egt's down. My truck has almost 400,000 on it and I have the pump turned way up with lots of boost. Essential to have is the pyro. It will almost scare you to see how fast the EGT's climb. Plus with you towing the trailer, you will want to be able to monitor the temps. I have towed equivalent loads to your setup and so far haven't experienced EGT's high enough to make me slow right down. Back off the skinny, yes. Just make sure you get a nice free flowing exhaust and get rid of that cat if you can. It will make a world of difference. A new downpipe is a must.

[DickWells]

I'll second that, 6.5. The Suburban does have a cold air intake and big exhaust, both put in long before the IC. EGT's do build fast in it, but I never did let it get out of hand (over, say, 900 F ~ ?). It's been a while! The pyro is in the down pipe, so I always added 200 in my head to my gauge reading.
DW

[DieselDavey]

So much great information here as usual!

I was getting pretty geeked up about doing some good mods, just got back to work after a short layoff and was gaining confidence, then just got laid off again!

These times are just too fun! :)

Roybn, if I install the lock and stitchers, would that be a good time to install low compression pistons? What else would you do to the engine?

I've never pulled an engine, or torn one apart (outside of motorbike and lawnmower engines...) and this is my wife's daily driver. I would'nt think that would be a weekend project.

Dick, I was going to install the DIY intercooler kit that is described in the members section (around $400.00 for parts)... Do you still have the Banks Chip or did you end up with one of the others (JK, Heath)? My burb does have the big trans cooler. No complaints from the tranny yet (knocking on wood...).

6.5, are you running low compression pistons (I would think at 22 lbs boost you are). Can you turn the pump up on a stock burb? Whats the biggest repair you've had to do in all those 400,000 miles?

You folks are great!

Thanks,

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

So much great information here as usual!


6.5, are you running low compression pistons (I would think at 22 lbs boost you are). Can you turn the pump up on a stock burb? Whats the biggest repair you've had to do in all those 400,000 miles?

You folks are great!

Thanks,

No lower compression yet. I want to go with at least an 18:1, maybe a little more, when I start my buildup. 22 lbs, (actually hit 25) is under full throttle. Typically I will hit 16/17 around town driving. You can't wind it out in town.

About the pump, best person to ask would be, you guessed it, Robyn. Being a DS4 it's got electronic control, but you can turn up the pressure. Don't do it until you get a pyro in your crossover pipe. I am so glad that I waited to turn up the truck until I had the pyro.

Hum, with 400,000 on it? First thing I had to do was put a pushrod back in. Being a nOOb, I figured I could downshift into 4th while pulling at 125. The keeper broke, (big surprise), and I had to put in back in. Beyond that, no actual broken things. Put a different IP because it was fresh and I wanted it tuned up. Also put in injectors around 100 K ago. New OPS. Oil lines broke. So nothing major. I think I have been blessed with one of those amazing blocks because I have done insane things to this truck and she still fires and run beautiful.

[DieselDavey]

Thanks 6.5,

I don't think these engines like to red line too much! :)

My last trip pulling the camper, I would manually shift into overdrive going downhill (with the cruise control set).

A really big OOPS was when the trans was already in overdrive and I accidentally shifted into NEUTRAL! I thought my old timing chain would jump or I'd see a piston go flying though the hood!

The really bad thing about it was that with the usual road noise, I did not hear the engine screaming for mercy! (well, for no more than a couple or 3-4 seconds...).

GM should've built a safety into the PCM to disengage cruise control when shifting into neutral! Poor engine sure has a hard time maintaining speed when the trannys disengaged!

I think I'm blessed with a good mill too, because no damage was done (at least that I know of), and this thing runs GREAT!

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

Yes, forgetting about the cruise can bring about a need for upholstery cleaning. same thing as pushing the clutch in while on cruise....:eek:

[DickWells]

Hi Dave: I don't know if I still have the Banks chip. Actually, now that I think about it, it's probably still in the ECM! Haven't thought about it since I put the Mech. pump in.
If you can put an effective IC in for $400 ~, then by all means. Sure does help to keep the EGTs down.
Keeping some sort of income is a job in itself, today. Hope you find something right away. Good luck.
Dick:)

[Robyn]

To install the Lock N Stitch inserts requires that the engine be torn down completely to the bare block and then the machine work be done (drill and tapping )
The block must be completely steam cleaned at this point and every trace of metal left from the work removed.

This is a great time to install such things as new soft plugs, bearings and whatever else is needed.

Unless you are planning on going to some substantial boost and using an aftercooler I would stay with stock compression.

18:1 is great if you are looking at 15+ PSI of boost but,if you are not going to demand absolute maximum from the engine I would save the $$$ and the other issues that go with the low comp slugs.

Stock pistons can handle boost up to 12 PSI just fine as long as you drive the thing with the gauges (EGT and Boost)

[DieselDavey]

Thanks Everyone!

Dick, I appreciate the encouragement!

I'm not up to pulling this engine unless I absolutely have too... I guess I'll think about pistons and such then! (Hopefully a couple of hundred thousand miles from now :) ).

I'm going ahead with the rest (including a fluidamper balancer) as money allows.

Thanks again!

By the way Dick, as a "full timer" are you a member of Resorts of Distinction? My home resort is Waldenwoods in Hartland, Michigan (I highly reccomend it!). It would be great to share a campfire with ya if your ever in the area. The wife and I hope to be full timers as well someday!

[DickWells]

No, not a member of ROD. Passport America is the only current one. You can PM me if you'd like to swap war stories. We'll be coming back through the upper mid-west in late May-early June. If we can keep in touch, maybe we could get together some time.
Dick:)

[Kennedy]

Hello All,

Well, I'm getting cabin fever and dreaming about pulling my camper this Summer.

I plan on adding big exhaust, intercooler, gauges, Amsoil synthetic w/ bypass filtration, and Kennedy fan clutch.

Then I would like to up the power with flashed PCM and Turbo Master.

Is it ok to add power on a higher mileage engine (177,000 miles) without splayed main caps?

I tow the camper about 4 times a year, small trips from Detroit area to Northern Michigan, and Canada... I would like to do more (maybe Southern States in winter).

Thanks,

It's kind of a crap shoot. Some 6.5's fly apart at just across 100k yet others seem to last forever. Myself, I would never push one w/o splayed mains, but I'd also have a hard time justifying pulling and rebuilding a perfectly sound running engine. Definitely do the gauges and cooling/durability mods first and then add the tuning. No need for Turbo Master with a proper tune.

[DickWells]

Dave: Well, you've heard from the best when you've talked to Robyn and John Kennedy. Plus, you've got access to a lot of data from Jim B., too.
If you go by those people, you won't go wrong. If you don't already have them, the 6.5 R&R manuals from TDP are a great investment. Just go into the Member's area to order them. Well worth it.

Dick Wells

[DieselDavey]

Thanks once again!

Dick, I'll be sure to order that book!

John, Hopefully I'll be ordering some stuff from ya soon!

All the best,

[DaveBr]

I just noticed in your signature that you have 3:42 gears. Even with the mods you are planning I would suggest 3:73's or better yet 4:10's. 8500# is a lot for 3:42's. Then add extra people & gear & you are getting up there. I'm running 4:10's and I don't think I could tow what I do without them. Just what you needed to hear... Another way to spend more money. Food for thought.

Dave

[Kennedy]

Thanks once again!

Dick, I'll be sure to order that book!

John, Hopefully I'll be ordering some stuff from ya soon!

All the best,

Don't miss the Bilstein buy 3 get 1 free sale if you don't already have them.

[DieselDavey]

Thanks Dave and John,

I know I'm asking a lot out of the 3:42's... Was hoping that increasing HP a bit would help out...

I don't need to pull the camper at 80MPH... But maintaining 65 without being floored, and being able to climb a hill without dropping to 45 would be great!

What kills me is that my 06 Ford F150 towed my rig much better than the Burb. The Ford hardly knew the camper was back there! I thought a 6.5 diesel would do just as well as a 5.4 gasser...

I still would not go back to the Ford, I love this Burb! :)