Engine driven LP?

[flyag1]

Hello All,

This is my first post here so it might as well be something different, yes?

Per the t handle test my LP has failed, opened up 1/2 turn and no diesel and the engine stalled in about 45 secs. So I was under the Van looking for the LP so I could trouble shoot or replace and could not find the darn thing. Went back to the tank and started tracing the lines and they lead to an engine driven pump that looks just like one you would see on a gasoline engine. What the heck do I have here?

This is a 1997 1 ton postal van with single rear wheels, a 6.5 NA, IP is DB2, with an auto trans. Per the vin nbr the dealership says I have a delco 25117340 but I can't find the damn thing. Only thing is see is the lines leading from the tank go to the engine driven fuel pump.

Thanks in advance for any help,

Dale

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

Some of the 6.2's came with a mechanical lift pump as far as I know, but I have never heard of a 6.5 stock coming with a mechanical. Unless someone else on here knows better? Being a postal van they may have had a different setup for all their vans? If need be, you can block off the plate and install an inline IP.

[DmaxMaverick]

Welcome aboard, Flyag1!

The general rule is, N/A engines have mechanical pumps, and TD's have electrics. There are some exceptions, but yours isn't one of them. It's my opinion the mechanical is a better pump, for various reasons (I can go into that if necessary). Replace what you have with the same. OEM/Delco pumps are a better option than parts store aftermarkets (unless you really enjoy replacing them).

[flyag1]

Welcome aboard, Flyag1!

The general rule is, N/A engines have mechanical pumps, and TD's have electrics. There are some exceptions, but yours isn't one of them. It's my opinion the mechanical is a better pump, for various reasons (I can go into that if necessary). Replace what you have with the same. OEM/Delco pumps are a better option than parts store aftermarkets (unless you really enjoy replacing them).

Thanks DmaxMaverick,

I did replace the pump this afternoon, what a bitch with gravity pulling the drive pin down in the way all the time. I have to agree tho, the mechanical pump seems to be a better option than electric. "lots of peps having problems with electric, weak output as well". I did put in an aftermarket pump tho, as it was availible. So most likely will be doing it again soon:(

Priming was very quick tho: I started off with filter out of housing so I could see the fuel coming into the bowel. It took maybe 10 seconds to fill bowl. The fuel coming into the filter housing reminded me of a very large coffee percolator. Put filter in and opened the vent on top, took maybe 10 seconds of cranking to purge air. Tightened vent and started engine in less than 5 seconds of cranking. Engine did miss for maybe 15-20 seconds and then smoothed out.

However I am still having the same issues after the new pump and filter install that started me hunting for issues:

White smoke, but not nearly as much as before but still I am seeing to much white smoke @ high RPMs. If you just stomp the accelerator while sitting in driveway you get lots of smoke with no load and engine is missing anytime I get white smoke. On the road with engine @ operating temps same is true, white smoke @ high RPM. Only @ high rpm. No smoke at idle or mid RPM range, only high RPM. Does not seem to matter if engine is hot or cold. This is diesel smoke, not oil or water...

This van is new to me and I don't know a lot about the 6.5, but I am learning a lot in a short time, LOL. Seems I have one of a few bastards built for the USPS. It's a 97 with mechanical lift pump even tho the books say it's has electric. I do know is has a cable acuatued IP, and single rim 4:10 rear end. It shows to have 196,000 miles... not telling how many miles are on the injectors or IP. Other than that I don't know much :o

I am starting to think maybe the timing is off or the computer is setup wrong but I have no idea what to do next or who to turn to... as this engine seems to be a cross between the 65 and the older 6.2. Any thoughts?

[DmaxMaverick]

Next time you replace the pump, remove the pushrod and pack the hole with bearing grease. It'll stay up there until the job is done. The fuel volume loss during a pump replacement isn't much, so priming is usually pretty quick. Good call, not pushing all that air through the IP during the prime process. When replacing a filter or pump, I'll disconnect the FSS (pump power connector) until it's fully primed. Minimizes prime time, and runs better, quicker.

Sounds like your timing is retarded. You can advance the pump, but if the 196K is on the original engine, the timing chain is probably worn enough to need replacement. The IP is driven by the cam gear (and timing chain). Timing can be compensated by advancing the pump, but the pump to valve train timing departs from optimal. Once an old chain is replaced with new, you'll be amazed at how much smoother the engine will run. You'll have more power and easier starts, too. With that many miles, there's probably a few other items needing replacement as well (injectors, etc.).

[flyag1]

DmaxMaverick wrote: Next time you replace the pump, remove the pushrod and pack the hole with bearing grease.

I would have removed the plate between the block and pump and done just that except the aftermarket pump did not have the gasket that goes between the plate and block, so I got to fight the pin or risk an oil leak. http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/images/icons/icon9.gif

From Dmax, Sounds like your timing is retarded.

Yes, from what I read it does sound that way to me also. Or maybe the advance is not working? Not sure at this point if I should advance the timing on the pump which will effect all RPMs or try to turn up the fuel pressure on the advance portion of the pump? I am not getting any black smoke so maybe I should also turn in some more fuel?

From Dmax, Once an old chain is replaced with new, you'll be amazed at how much smoother the engine will run. You'll have more power and easier starts, too. With that many miles, there's probably a few other items needing replacement as well (injectors, etc.).

I have no records on the truck so I have no idea what has been replaced or when if ever. So I would have to agree there maybe other parts in need of replacement, however I will say the truck starts very easy. I let the GP cycle once and you only have to touch the starter and it fires right up. No missing or smoking. Idles very smooth with very little noise: from what I read a smooth running engine @ idle...one that makes little noise would indicate the timing is set for economical performance as opposed to max HP? Maybe you could reinforce my thoughts as my opinion is based on what I read only, I have ZERO real world experience on this 6.5.


I will also add the engine runs very cool, just replaced the thermostat and the engine will not produce over 110 degrees of water temp without a load. It can idle all day and will not get above 110. I have a big open radiator, had to cover the whole front side with cardboard to keep engine @ 200 degrees while I was in CO.


One last thing, per the Vin Nbr this engine is a 6.5Y (L57). Any idea what the Y stands for...


Thanks for your help Dmax,



Dale

[DmaxMaverick]

Y, IIRC, means the engine is N/A.

A quiet engine is not necessarily dialed in for economy. A more advanced/aggressive timing is more noisy, but will also increase power, ECT, and economy to a point (increased engine efficiency). If your engine has the original timing set, I don't suggest messing with timing and/or fueling until it's renewed. You can check timing chain wear by removing the oil fill tube. Put a wrench on the crank bolt and rotate (rock) the engine while watching the cam/pump gears. There should be very little (less than 1/2°) of variation on a new chain, and about 1° on a still good worn chain. Any more than that warrants replacement. With the miles on the engine, I wouldn't even check it, unless you have some reason to believe it may have been replaced at some time.

The pump plate (and pump) should be sealed with RTV. No biggie now, since the job is already done.

[flyag1]

Y, IIRC, means the engine is N/A.
If your engine has the original timing set, I don't suggest messing with timing and/or fueling until it's renewed.

I read this to late:

The pump was set about 3 lines retarded. I moved the pump to about (+) 1 line on the advanced side. NO SMOKE and LOTS of POWER now. Engine will also hold operating temp when idling. Still starts easy but the clattering is a bit more pronounced. Gets up to speed much faster and there in no miss in the high RPM range like it was before.

It looks like someone tried to advance the timing on the pump sometime back, as there is bit marks on the top flange of the pump right above where the top bolt. It looked like someone took a long screwdriver and tried to drive the pump towards advance.

No black smoke in the tail pipe at all, even when climbing hills under a load. I am now thinking that maybe I could add some fuel and make a little more power? (but I am going to think on that move far a couple days, sure don't want to destroy my engine)

[Burning Oil]

FWIW
I was going to install a manual pump on my K3500 as a second pump for my WVO system. It would not fit because the frame is in the way. On a 2wd it should work.

[rlfries]

FWIW
I was going to install a manual pump on my K3500 as a second pump for my WVO system. It would not fit because the frame is in the way. On a 2wd it should work.

Burning Oil, I have a 95 suburban 2wd that I would like to put a manual fuel pump on for wvo. Is it as easy as bolting the pump to the block or do I need other parts like a rod and plate? Also where can I reroute the turbo return line? Thanks

[Burning Oil]

You will need the pump rod from a 6.2 and the pump plate. Thats as far as I got. Once I realized the frame got in the way. Had it fit, my plan was going to be to drill/tap a hole in the pump housing or pump plate for the oil drain.
I think you would be better off with an electric pump because you will have more control. I went with a Walbro and have over 60k miles worth of oil through it.