Dreaded White Smoke

[hogbody]

I was headed to Texas from Oregon and between El Paso and Austin I started noticing white smoke at an idle. It is a 2003 with only about 55,000 miles. Smokes after it gets warmed up. I've checked the coolant....no sign of oil. I've drained the oil....no sign of coolant or diesel. Power is good. Mileage is still good.

I guess my decision is do I try to make it back to Oregon (2400 miles) and let me dealer figure it out or do I take it to a dealer in the San Marcos area. The closest is Chuck Nash.

I've not run any programmer and have the Universal filter on it. The filters have been changed in a timely manner.

What to do????

Thanks, Larry

[Mark Rinker]

First of all, don't panic. Unless you have progressed to the point of a fuel knock, or dilluted crankcase oil, you are still safe to operate. That being said, it can change in minutes - so don't get lulled into a sense of complacency, or try to make it home knocking and oil full of diesel...

If it were me, I'd double dose with a good fuel additive and head home. The injector return rates will tell the tale. I personally have had an LB7 with light smoking, light variation in return rates, operate otherwise 'normally' for many thousands of servicable miles, with good power and normal fuel mileage. I dosed this 2002 LB7 truck with a quart of ATF every second or third tankful. You might try this old farmer's trick before heading home, but I wouldn't show up to the dealership with a tank full of ATF treated fuel, either...

Sounds like you are on the path for a set of warranty injectors. Enjoy. When you are through this adventure, please record your findings on the 'sticky' poll I started regarding injector replacement and additional fuel filtration, at the top of this forum. Thanks in advance!

[hogbody]

I'm not going to head back to Oregon 'till the end of January or so. I have another rig to drive while here.......

So I guess I will hang loose.

Does anyone know anything about the dealerships around Austin?

[tx dave]

Hey Hogbody, welcome to San Marcos, I also live here (13 years now). You referenced Chuck Nash Chev, From my experience, they have several excellent diesel mech. I wouldn't buy a vehicle from them but I have had very good service when I took my 2001 dmax there for injector change and water pump. All that said, stay away from the local shops, they're good but can't afford the tech gagets that the dealer has. (Know from experience) this dealer isn't any higher and some times cheaper than the little guys.

[hogbody]

Nice to talk to someone from the area. We are in the process of moving to San Marcos for part of the year. Our daughter works in Austin and lives in Kyle. We plan to winter here and head back to the Northwest for the summer and fall.

My dealership in Oregon is a small one and I currently don't know the status of their diesel mechanic. The industry is in a turmoil so who knows if they are even still operating. I do know the owner personally and have bought 3 rigs from them over the years.

I guess I can take it by Nash and see what they say. I don't want a hassle but I am worried about problems on the drive back to Oregon. The truck is operating normally at this point except for large amounts of white smoke at an idle.

I will be in the area for another 4-6 weeks working on the place before I head back.

Thanks, Larry

[NutNbutGMC]

First of all, don't panic. Unless you have progressed to the point of a fuel knock, or dilluted crankcase oil, you are still safe to operate. That being said, it can change in minutes - so don't get lulled into a sense of complacency, or try to make it home knocking and oil full of diesel...

If it were me, I'd double dose with a good fuel additive and head home. The injector return rates will tell the tale. I personally have had an LB7 with light smoking, light variation in return rates, operate otherwise 'normally' for many thousands of servicable miles, with good power and normal fuel mileage. I dosed this 2002 LB7 truck with a quart of ATF every second or third tankful. You might try this old farmer's trick before heading home, but I wouldn't show up to the dealership with a tank full of ATF treated fuel, either...

Sounds like you are on the path for a set of warranty injectors. Enjoy. When you are through this adventure, please record your findings on the 'sticky' poll I started regarding injector replacement and additional fuel filtration, at the top of this forum. Thanks in advance!I have to ask just for the sake of knowing (spoken in a nice way). Mark, have you personally ever had an enroute engine failure from the infamous injector failure syndrome? I have had 3 incidents and to this day, there is no if, and, or buts of a warning as described above. Here's what I can say; moving along at a nice clip and look in the rearview mirror. Diesel is all up over the rear window of the topper. Done deal. No warning of any kind and suddenly a limping failure and hopes of getting to the next exit with a town. There was no fuel knock, no smoke, no stopping or warning light for diluted oil, no monitoring of the injector return rates, not even an On-Star idiot calling me to say that my injectors may be fixing to go because I bought a crappy GM LB7 with a known inherent problem. Not to mention the 2-piece driveshaft and cutting of the cross member to repair it.

It dumps diesel all the way from the injectors back to the rear of the truck. Leaks at a rate of watching the fuel gauge slowly creep toward E. Diesel saturates the entire underbody, including the wiring harnesses, coats the exhaust, soaks the frame leaving nothing but bare metal to oxidize in just a few days. Everything is soaked with diesel with no warning. It's like jumping into a swimming pool, getting out soaking wet then rolling in a sandbox and getting up, looking around, and mumbling WTF, where did all of this come from? There is sand in every crack and orifice of the body, just like diesel in every crack and crevice on the truck. Not to mention all of the fuel that dumps onto oncoming vehicles' windshields. It is a mess. So I was just asking for the sake of asking to figure if you have experienced this first-hand or are you just imagining what should happen in a pinch but would really have no direct impact on one's life. Again, I ask this in a very kind manner with a slight sense of humor. But I will tell you this; An injector failure is a total unforeseen mess for years to come, whether one realizes it or not. After 3 incidents, I can only testify and pass on words from experience. After about 6 months and all seems well, it isn't over. There is the ever-looming thought of it happening again and then it still isn't over. There then comes the oil leaks from so many tear-downs and mechanics that come to not care about doing it right, they just want you out of the shop after the truck has sat there for weeks on end waiting for parts and GM's blessings of reimbursement. There is no frickin' warning at all. It happens. Finally it becomes the principle of dealing with an oil leak. I did that for a year or so until I got tired of changing the cardboard oil-soak-mats on the garage floor. Traded that one off for a 2007 LBZ. I would not wish this on my worst enemy. I do indeed hope that the Hog makes it home safely and without incident. Just sharing my $0.02 from several experiences. I always enjoy your information and insights. Thanks.


.

[Mark Rinker]

Interesting question - and a valid one. Before I begin my answer, I'd like to acknowledge that my constant posting here probably raises many to ask ... "is this guy for real, does he really experience everything that he talks about...how is this possible?"

Well, the answer is that I really only talk about the everyday stuff that happens when you have owned 6 Duramax trucks in a little over 4 years and rolled up over a half million miles really quick. Its all real world experience...in a very compressed fashion. Some days, we have 3 trucks running down the road, pulling or plowing or going hunting and you experience all the stuff here in a very very compressed timeframe...

AN-EEE-WAYYY

Now, for the answer - in 4 sets of injectors failed and replaced (all under warranty so far) I have never seen or experienced a soaking, diesel puking mess, like you describe. Never.

Every situation unfolded similarly (all LB7s, BTW...) first light smoking, then progressing until it was obvious that bad things were about to happen...like fuel/oil dilution, knocks, etc.

Only once did I let it get to a MAJOR nasty fuel knock, and that was in Washington state, after heading out on a 6,000 roundtrip pulling boats with the Kodiak, and it was already smoking...I was trying to stretch it out until I got home, but a few miles west of Spokane it went to knocking and banging so badly that I pulled over and hit a motel. Luckily, a Medium Duty Service Center was less than 20 miles away, and the knock wasn't nearly as bad when the engine was cool, so I limped over there and got a new set under warranty.

Never seen anything like you describe, or in your picture and hope I never do. I am certain that what you describe is possible - it seems like mine were injector(s) not spraying correctly, or leaking raw fuel, and yours were injectors that came apart completely - hosing fuel like a broken water pipe...

Is that diesel, or oil on the tailgate? Looks more like oil to me...keep reading about my leak below...a dealership/tech problem...not an injector problem! If it is diesel fuel, and it came from the engine compartment, down the underbody, and did that to your tailgate, your GM tech needs more training, and a new torque wrench...

The only raw diesel I ever saw or smelled came out of the tailpipe.

As for oil leaks after injector replacement - on the latest set (2nd set on the Kodiak in 120K miles...) the mechanic didn't torque either valve cover properly. I headed out on the road, and promptly pumped a gallon of oil out of the back of each valve cover, coating the the underside of the truck, permanently staining the previously shiny aluminum hauler body, and creating a mess so bad that oil was literally dripping off the bottom of the truck everywhere I parked overnight - leaving a little outline picture of the truck on the parking lot. No exaggeration.

I was PISSED. For the last 6 months, on two or three occassions I have bought two BIG cans of degreaser, got under the truck, and sprayed down every surface still affected by the oil leak. Then, I simply drive it in Minnesota's constant rain/snow/slush etc... The underbody, driveshaft, exhaust, muffler, frame, shocks, rearend, etc... are all ssslllloooowwwly starting to look normal again. But never new and clean and shiny like they looked until 105K miles...

However, the aluminum hauler body is splotched and mottled down the sides and even across the back with oil spray makes me grumble every time I try another product to clean it - and NOTHING works. That tech's incompetence lowered my truck's resale value by $5K in an already weak market. It looks really ****ty.

Thats my .05 worth... :)

[DickWells]

Hi, Hogbody; Interesting that you are from OR. I was having white smoke at idle, all the way from northern BC, back to Ranier, OR, back in Summer 07. Went across the river to Longview, WA to Sterling GMC. Had my Juice W/Attitude monitor in there, and they didn't even flinch. In two days, I had my rig back with all new injectors and cups. Not one leak and not one penny for $2800 worth of work! Nice folks up there. Too bad if you aren't close to them when you get home.
Also too bad you aren't closer to Del Rio, TX. Brown GMC up there, is excellent. That's where I bought my 04(yes it's an LB7), back in Spring 06, and I'm more than pleased with the way they'll bend over backwards to accommodate a customer on warrantee.
I too, wouldn't hesitate to head back to OR with your rig. Mark has given you good advise.
BTW, Mark; Have you ever sensed that you dropped a bit of milleage after an injector change? My figures from my log tell me that I dropped 1 or 2 mpg, towing after the new injectors up there in WA. Trouble is, I had left something like 1500 lbs of stuff in Ranier before we left for AK. I got 13.2 going up there and back from OR on level 2 with the Juice. Never have achieved quite that much since. Just wondering.
Good luck.
Dick Wells:)

[madmatt]

The only time I've seen messes like that were when a return line broke and filled the crankcase, spewing oil out the vent or after people have drove them for a while after they notice a fuel smell or lower then usual oil pressure. Both times it wasn't like something just "popped" and fuel sprayed everywhere. It took awhile for a leaking injector to pump an additional few gallons into the crankcase. Hell my buddy made it halfway across Texas before a cracked fuel return line leaked enough fuel to lower his oil pressure, smell strongly, and start smoking. I'm sorry and not calling you a lier, but I don't believe that "just happened" without any signs beforehand. Unless your oil pressure gauge is off, you can't add that much fuel to your oil without lowering your oil pressure. As far as the problems you've encountered afterwards, sounds like shoddy repair work as I NEVER had one w/ continuing problems after the repair was made.

[NutNbutGMC]

....
Is that diesel, or oil on the tailgate?Diesel.


Thanks for the info.

[hogbody]

On Monday I decided to take the truck in to have it diagnosed for the white smoke. After I explained the situation the service manager was aware of the injector warranty. The service advisor could not find the service bulletin so I provided him the number from this site. (thanks guys). He called me back and said it was injectors and the repair under warranty would be completed on Wednesday.

They drove me home and today they called and said it was done and picked me up.

I picked up the keys and they had me sign an invoice that the bottom line said $0.00) The service adviser said this repair was around $3,000.00.

They removed and replaced all 8 injectors, valve cover gaskets, upper radiator hose O ring, drained and filled the coolant system, replaced the heater hose O ring, return line banjo seals, FICM banjo seals and referred to bullentin number 04-06-04-007I, took a snapshot and roadtested for 6 miles. It was fixed per special policy #04039A.

Their were no questions asked or any hesitation on their part. Their was no mention of any GM rep. or anything.

Keep in mind I bought the veh. in Oregon and have no relationship with this dealer.

I can tell a difference with the way the truck runs. It is not as noisy and even though I thought the power was good.....it is better now.

I was expecting the worse based upon what others have written and the economic state of GM, but I was treated very well. The dealership service was outstanding.

Chuck Nash Auto Group in San Marcos, TX gets many thumbs up.

[madmatt]

good deal!!!!!!!

[DickWells]

Glad you made out OK. I had the same esperience up in Longview, WA, as I said in my previous post. Always nice to get that kind of treatment when you're far from home base.
So far, I've had warantee work done in four locations since 1998. Florida, Vermont, Washington and Texas. Guess I've been lucky. Never have had an argument from a GM dealer.
Our best, from sunny Brownsville.
Dick Wells:)

[NutNbutGMC]

The only time I've seen messes like that were when a return line broke and filled the crankcase, spewing oil out the vent or after people have drove them for a while after they notice a fuel smell or lower then usual oil pressure. Both times it wasn't like something just "popped" and fuel sprayed everywhere. It took awhile for a leaking injector to pump an additional few gallons into the crankcase. Hell my buddy made it halfway across Texas before a cracked fuel return line leaked enough fuel to lower his oil pressure, smell strongly, and start smoking. I'm sorry and not calling you a lier, but I don't believe that "just happened" without any signs beforehand. Unless your oil pressure gauge is off, you can't add that much fuel to your oil without lowering your oil pressure. As far as the problems you've encountered afterwards, sounds like shoddy repair work as I NEVER had one w/ continuing problems after the repair was made.Take it for what it's worth to you. There was no warning at all. Heading up I-57 in mid-state Illinois at a pretty good clip and looked in the rear view to change lanes. Couldn't see through the rear of the topper window because it was coated with diesel. Oil was never an issue as such. The oil prssure gauge did show a low pressure after the incident as I limped the truck to the next exit with a town. It happened with no warning or prior indication of a problem. That is simple as I know to describe.

Other incidents basically the same. Failure, limp in, find a local dealer (that has a diesel mechanic because some do not), rent a car, and finish the trip. Go back weeks later to get the truck. It varies in detail but what I have described is the way it was. The LB7 stinks regardless of what anyone else tries to convince me otherwise. I can't imagine anyone other than thr wrenchers that would be willing to accept this risk after so many repeated testimonies of the same issue here on this forum. Some of the other larger forums are full of the same problems. I just hope someone may learn of judge for themselves the issues at hand. It's each to their own.

Nothing shoddy about the repair. It is an irreparable situation by nature of the failure. There is no repair for the diesel coating to the under carriage. Time goes on and the rest is history. It's not about the leaks or the work. It's about the fact that someone was not willing to do it right and point is this: It's what one has to live with regardless of "why" or shoddy. When you're in and out of states like I am, one cannot continue to drop a truck off sometime for a better fix. It'a about time management and / or downtime which is what this becomes. No matter what the reason, it was still a crappy situation and that was as good as it was going to get. Thanks GM for a crappy and stinky situation.

The only way to resolve a problem is to get rid of the root cause or deal with the consequences. I chose the first. It's not a concern to me now but I hate to see these other guys buy this engine model without knowing what they could possible encounter. No one will ever convince me this is a decent engine. Don't take my word for it but continue reading on the board here and chalk up a mark for every thread here about this failure or a related failure. An entire abacus string could not count the threads here. Thanks for your information. I always like to read and learn. :tiphat: