Smoking out the intersection!

[03silverchevy]

New to the forum- I took my 2003 2500HD into the dealer to have balance test done- excessive blue/gray smoke at idle, no fuel in oil, smells like diesel out the tailpipe. The balance test was within specs, but 3 injectors showed a difference. Dealer said it would be $1600 to replace the 3- I have 163000 mi on the truck, and have Banks Big head wastegate and Banks Monster exhaust- they said i was running a programmer and it would not be covered under the injector TSB. Not sure what to do! :eek:

[03silverchevy]

#1 D 0.3 N 1.7
#2 D 0.0 N 0.3
#3 D 3.7 N 2.8
#4 D 2.2 N 2.8
#5 D 0.7 N 1.6
#6 D 0.7 N 1.0
#7 D 0.5 N 1.5
#8 D 2.3 N 3.0

Dealer stated compression test needed to diagnose further.

[madmatt]

are you running a programmer???

[madmatt]

what happened when they commanded the fuel rail pressure to 160Mpa???

[Duramaster]

Sounds like a classic case of injectors. Funny thing about the programmers, Our new GM rep is being a stickler when it comes to the aftermarket programmers. Do you have another dealer you can deal with after you take the programmer off? See the link below.



http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=33144

[DickWells]

03: Where do you live? Up in Longview, Washington, at Stirling GMC a year ago, they didn't even blink when I told them that I was using an Edge with Juice. Drove out of there two days later with all new injectors, complete with the latest cups and all. Cost? Not a penny! When I asked about the $100 deductable, they said it didn't apply to the injection system warantee. It's good for 200 K or 7 years, whichever comes first.
Sounds like it would pay to look for another dealer.
Good luck.
Dick:)

[03silverchevy]

I had a Banks 6 gun tuner on, but it was removed prior to taking it in. I also have the Banks Big Head wastegate and Banks Monster Exhaust

[03silverchevy]

MadMat- I'm not sure what you mean about 160mpa?

[Duramaster]

What mat is asking is how does the engine run when the fuel pressure is commanded upto 160 MPA ( about 23,000 PSI). Does it still smoke? Does it run worse or better? Do you get a terrible fuel knock when commanded to max fuel pressure (160 MPA).

[03silverchevy]

Not sure what the fuel rail pressure is but the truck does not smoke when driving down the highway- at least I can't see the smoke...

[03silverchevy]

DickWells- in St. Louis area. Need to find a good Diesel mechanic in the area. LocaL Il GMC dealer does not do injector work all that often (one Duramax a year for anything other than oil changes)

[madmatt]

feel like driving to southern IN???

[03silverchevy]

Well, I may try it myself- I have the serevice manuals. Looks like it's not too bad, once the valve covers are off. Might try to locate new injectors to replace the ones I have which are questionable.

[madmatt]

Morepower's working on a DIY injector story w/ pics that may be helpful.

[03silverchevy]

Update...
Just took a winter tow trip to MD- checked Fuel MPG all the way there and back. looked like it was about 7-10mpg towing a 28ft 5th wheel. Normal mpg 14-15. Recently changed fuel filter, and oil. Truck is still smoking heavier now. I looked in the driveway today and found a fuel leak on the driver's side front wheel well. I found what looks like a vent hose dripping. the "vent hose" is capped- is this PCV vent line? It is tied to wire harness just above front shock/ frame.
The only aftermarket on the truck on this trip is Bank's Monster exhaust and Big Head wastegate.

HELP!

[DmaxMaverick]

The vent hose you found is for the front diff. If it's leaking, it may or may not be an issue. If there are any dips or loops in the hose, it will accumulate oil (condenses/puddles when cold) and blow it out as the diff heats up. If it becomes too restricted (too much oil in the hose), it can cause problems with shaft seals (they don't do well under pressure). Ideally, the hose should be a constant incline to its point of termination (the cap), or only one turn downward at the end. The key is to offer the oil a path to drain back to the diff, or drip out the end.

The crankcase vent pipe is on the passenger side, downward along the engine. If it's leaking fluid, you have bigger issues. Either injectors, or a fuel return line is leaking.

[03silverchevy]

thanks for the help, But- the hose on the driver's side appears to be leaking diesel- yellow-ish in color and smells of petroleum diesel fuel. Not front diff. Any possibility the diesel is coming from somewhere else?

[DmaxMaverick]

I'm not above saying anything is possible.

Follow that hose to its source. If it's a vent hose and "tied up" to anything, it's not the CC vent. The CC vent is securely attached all the way from the vapor canister to the end (no hose to "tie up", and no cap on the end). Degraded gear lube, mixed in with some moisture and elemental properties can take on the appearance of other fluids. Diesel fuel is distilled from crude, as is lube oil. They cross paths at several points, and can "distill" themselves, given the right conditions (most chemistry was/is discovered by accident). If the front diff is due or past due for service, this could be an indicator. Could also be a condition of a deep water crossing, which the vent is supposed to protect from water contamination. Off hand, I don't know what other vent it can be, as you described it.

Check your oil level (dipstick) very carefully. If it appears, or has the possibility, of being higher than it should, drain it. Measure what you remove. More than 9-10 qts. could mean you have fuel in the crankcase. If there is enough fuel to blow out the vent, it should be very obvious (up to 20 qts.). Problem is, fuel mixed with engine oil makes it very hard to read the dipstick level (makes the oil more translucent and less viscous). In many/most cases when crankcase fluid (oil/fuel) is blown out the vent, the entire truck underside gets a thorough coating before it's discovered. Other symptoms include a very rough idle and hard starting.

Also, watch your coolant level. Could be your "smoke" isn't smoke at all.

[03silverchevy]

A little more... I looked at it this morning, and found the vent line was zip-tied to the wiring harness. maybe done during a recent service? Anyway, I cut loose the vent line and let it lie in a manner which the slope will allow drainage back to the diff. will keep an eye on it.

As for the smoke, it's blue, and quite a bit. Injector balancing was done, see earlier post with rates. they did not provide any rates w/ idle higher than idle Park/ Neut. dealer wanted to do compression test, but I needed the truck back before it was completed. Maybe time to take it back and politely get the dealer to change some injectors.

[03silverchevy]

It's getting worse...
I'm going to check the glow plugs this weekend. Anything in particular I should look for? What are signs of bad injectors when looking at them? any help appreciated! It's now embarrassing how bad it's smoking. Still no signs of fuel in oil and no loss of coolant. I believe I should check compression while checking glow plugs.

[madmatt]

A cylider leak down is usually a better route to go. In the past three weeks, I've had three vehicle all pass compression test but failed the leakdown terribly. You need someone w/ a tech II to max out the rail pressure and see what the actual rail pressure is. Anything less then 158Mpa and a set of injectors on the General is in order.

[DickWells]

Still too bad that you can't find a dealer who will work with you on this issue. Things are so sticky all over, with the economy being what it is. Service people have probably had some new restrictions put on them by the Corporate People. Common sense has a lot less room to play in nowdays. Still, seems like there's a dealer somewhere willing to live up to the 200 K/ seven year program. Can't see that your mods would be any worse than my Edge Juice, and the dealer in Washington just told me to unhook it, but leave it in place for the service check. All new injectors and cups, plus a check through the holes for blow torch cutting, plus a check of the valve lash, all for $0000.00!
Good luck.
Dick Wells

[Mark Rinker]

Update...
Just took a winter tow trip to MD- checked Fuel MPG all the way there and back. looked like it was about 7-10mpg towing a 28ft 5th wheel. Normal mpg 14-15. Recently changed fuel filter, and oil. Truck is still smoking heavier now. I looked in the driveway today and found a fuel leak on the driver's side front wheel well. I found what looks like a vent hose dripping. the "vent hose" is capped- is this PCV vent line? It is tied to wire harness just above front shock/ frame.
The only aftermarket on the truck on this trip is Bank's Monster exhaust and Big Head wastegate.

HELP!

The Duramax has shown to be quite 'forgiving' when it comes to injector issues, but its not a good idea to defer this repair, and head out on a cross-country trip towing a 5th wheel trailer...! You are lucky to have not been stranded with a crankcase full of diluted oil and a nasty fuel knock...

Your significant drop in mileage indicates the poor combustion that is taking place. Raw fuel is pumping out your exhaust, EGTs are increasing, your turbo is working harder, etc.

My advice is similar to others - 1) stop using the truck, before another issue is created, 2) find a dealer that will overlook the tuner, and install a fresh set of injectors under warranty. 3) You might suggest that you are interested in a fresh set of glow plugs, thermostats, and complete fluid maintence from stem to stern, while the truck is in...never hurts to spend some money proactively when you are standing there with your hand out...

This advice is coming from some real world experience. I have received four sets of LB7 injectors under warranty, at 3 different dealerships. Two of the sets were on 'chipped' trucks, one even had a propane injection system installed at the time of the maintenance. Certainly the General is doing some belt tightening, but you should be able to get this done. Talk straight to the Service Manager - tell him what you expect and ask for his cooperation.

[madmatt]

If you can get the truck too me (i'm about 3 hrs away i think) and leave it a few days,, I'll get you a set of injectors as long as there's no warranty block/branded title on it. Seriously!

[Mark Rinker]

Are you still driving it?

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=34036

[redbird2]

Mark was nice enough to link the story of my toasted 03 I would make some calls find another dealer or I would be hauling it to Southern IN the job look easy on paper its more work than you think especial if you don't do this everyday.

Take MADMATT up on his offer its a good deal

good luck

[03silverchevy]

Thanks for the offers and advice- I'm going to try one other dealer in the area, have them look at it, see what they say. I'm also planning on them to replace the leaking hydrobooster, maybe with additional work being done we can work something out. I really do appreciate all the help and will keep posting!

[03silverchevy]

All-
I recently dropped off my truck at the local dealer. I had a few issues I wanted checked out and had repaired. While it was there I asked them to look into the blue smoke issue. Requested injector balance. The service rep came back after testing and showed the injectors to be out of balance, I did not get the numbers again (different dealer than previous post w/ bal rates).
He stated the service tech was narrowing the issue down and found the fuel rail pressure to be out of spec. After further investigation, they stated carbon buildup in the fuel rail, which they cleaned with a chemical cleaner. still suspected fuel pressure regulator to be culprit.
Additional discussion w/ service tech lead to compression test- found seals on injectors were leaking- this was not covered under the GM warranty, according to the rep. I had all injectors replaced. All said- The truck is not smoking, and I'm in the hole!
Any thoughts welcome

[Mark Rinker]

Sounds like times are a changin' when it comes to injector warranty coverage. How could it not - considering current financial state of GM?

Glad to hear you had all 8 replaced, and aren't driving with blue smoke fogging out the intersection anymore.

That is good news!!!

[03silverchevy]

Good things is right! Does the warranty not cover seals? Dealer said only covered were if the injectors showed signs of cracking...