View Full Version : Oil Pan difference
Hi there,
I have problems building in a (new) 6.2L engine in my Chevy Van G20.
Bought a new engine (game from American Army); removed the old engine and noticed all differences between both engines.
The most important difference is the oil pan, it don't fit in the VAN.:confused:
Now I think the engine is a AM General (Hummer) manufactured 6.2L diesel.
Is there a replace oil pan available which fit in a Chevy Van?
Greeting from The Netherlands
As long as your replacement engine has the two piece rear main seal then just swap the pan from your old engine.
*** Be sure the oil pump and pickup tube are the the same. ***
If your new engine has a one piece rear main seal and your old one is the two piece type, then you will need to scrounge up a pan to fit the new engine designed for van use
Best
Robyn
Hi Robyn
Thanks for your reply; Normally the new 6.2L engine was allready build in.
First I have some difficulties with english / tecnical language;
Sorry, I'am Dutch. Words like "scrounge up" is new for me; I think that I know what you mean, but rebuilding a oil pan (to fit in the VAN) is not simple because they are double plated...
Tomorrow I take your advice with me to the VAN. Maybe I understand what you mean with one or two piece rear main seal.
I will first dismount both oil pans; they look like each other, BUT:
From behind the computer I can tell that the pan from the new engine is to big on the front site to fit in the chevy VAN; AND at the transmission site is the pan seal smaller as the pan on the old engine.
Thanks so far, to advice me .....:cool:
Wouter
hydra@zzp-ers.net
BigGun J
09-22-2008, 21:43
I bought a military take out 6.2 The casting numbers on the block were the same as on my 1985 6.2 I removed and swapped the pans and other related parts as needed.
The casting numbers are located on the back of the block.
Jim
Wouter
Let me see if I can help some here. "Scrounge up" = look for, find or to locate what you need.
The two piece rear main seal engine use two seperate semi circular seal pieces that fit inside the rear main cap right behind the main bearing.
The one piece seal type is a drive in seal and is installed from the rear of the engine in one piece.
The rear of the crank on a two piece seal type has a flange that sticks out from the rear of the crankshaft.
The single piece seal type crankshafts are totally round at the rear and do not have a flange.
You can not interchange the two different types of oil pans as the area in the rear that sits on the rear main bearing housing outer rim is different.
You will need a pan that is designed for the engine type you have and also to fit the van.
Hope this helps
Robyn
I bought a military take out 6.2 The casting numbers on the block were the same as on my 1985 6.2 I removed and swapped the pans and other related parts as needed.
The casting numbers are located on the back of the block.
Jim
HI JIM,
Interesting! In what kind of car did you build in this military 6.2L engine?
Greeting
Wouter
Let me see if I can help some here. "Scrounge up" = look for, find or to locate what you need.
The two piece rear main seal engine use two seperate semi circular seal pieces that fit inside the rear main cap right behind the main bearing.
The one piece seal type is a drive in seal and is installed from the rear of the engine in one piece.
The rear of the crank on a two piece seal type has a flange that sticks out from the rear of the crankshaft.
The single piece seal type crankshafts are totally round at the rear and do not have a flange.
You can not interchange the two different types of oil pans as the area in the rear that sits on the rear main bearing housing outer rim is different.
You will need a pan that is designed for the engine type you have and also to fit the van.
Hope this helps
Robyn
HI ROBYN
It looks not easy, it is as you mentioned, the pans they are really different :
Oil Pan from the new engine (build for Hummer?)do not fit the Chevy VAN!
Oil Pan from the old engine do not fit on the new engine !
So as you said: "I need a pan that is designed for the (new) engine and also fit the Chevy VAN"
Hope this is on the market, otherwise I have to make it myself.
(from 2 pans, making one ??)
Maybe somebody know it?
this is what you need http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=PIO&MfrPartNumber=501120&PartType=1270&PTSet=A
this is what you need http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=PIO&MfrPartNumber=501120&PartType=1270&PTSet=A
:eek:,
Hi thanks, Is that really the part I need? That is great if it excist, this give me hope.
I looked that link at partsamerica ; can't see the specifications or photograph of the oil pan AND partsamerica.com deliver in the States only; I live in the Netherlands; so a next point to solve:
I send them an e-mail !! we will see....
Thx.
Hello Wouter, your G20 van (1992-1997) has the same rear one piece seal as the hummer 6.2L engine. It also uses the same oil pan gasket (2 piece).
You can order a replacement oil pan # GMP40B (about $105 US)and the fel-pro gasket #0S34406 from Rock Auto Parts on the internet. They ship worldwide.
Your military 6.2L oil pan should have a 30 degree (straight) line starting from the front going back to the drain plug, where it will then straighten out at the rear of the pan.
Your G20 van will have a semi-circle/curve instead in the same place along with being more rounded (vertically) as it gets to the bottom of the pan. This pan was used in a lot of Chevrolet trucks, blazer, vans, etc.
The following was translated with Babelfish:
Hello heeft Wouter, uw G20 bestelwagen (1992-1997) de zelfde achter ééndelige verbinding zoals de hummer6.2L motor. Het gebruikt ook de zelfde oliecarterpakking (2 stuk). U kunt tot een vervangingsoliecarter # GMP40B (de ongeveer $105 V.S.) en de fel-propakking #0S34406 van de AutoDelen van de Rots op Internet opdracht geven. Zij verschepen wereldwijd. Uw militair 6.2L oliecarter zou moeten een 30 graad (rechte) lijn hebben die van de voorzijde begint die naar de afvoerkanaalstop terugkeert, waar het dan uit bij het achtergedeelte van de pan zal rechtmaken. Uw G20 bestelwagen zal in plaats daarvan een halve cirkel/een kromme in de zelfde plaats samen met meer rond gemaakt het zijn hebben (verticaal) die het aan de bodem van de pan krijgt. Deze pan werd gebruikt in heel wat vrachtwagens Chevrolet, blazer, bestelwagens, enz.
Hello Wouter, your G20 van (1992-1997) has the same rear one piece seal as the hummer 6.2L engine. It also uses the same oil pan gasket (2 piece).
You can order a replacement oil pan # GMP40B
Your military 6.2L oil pan should have a 30 degree
Your G20 van will have a semi-circle/curve instead
Hi SuperH1
Thanks, I do not really know what kind of engine (hummer?)I bought.
It's a GM engine that's sure, but there are differences
The pan is like you descriped.
Are there more different kind of 6.2L diesel engines???
(very special this Babelfish translation!!)
:eek:,
I looked that link at partsamerica.com ; can't see the specifications or photograph of the oil pan AND partsamerica.com deliver in the States only; I live in the Netherlands; so a next point to solve:
I send them an e-mail !! we will see....
Thx.
I explained the problem by sending a e-mail ; no progress.
I received a return e-mail with the next text:
"We regret that we do not have the part(s) you need at this time".
They don't tell me which part they don't have in stock.
Actually I think they don't understand what I real need.
Well, I go on searching............
this is what you need http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=PIO&MfrPartNumber=501120&PartType=1270&PTSet=A
Like to believe you, but I think that's the same oil pan as the one under my old chevy G20 (?) If that is right then I used that pan and that don't fit.
still searching ......
Like to believe you, but I think that's the same oil pan as the one under my old chevy G20 (?) If that is right then I used that pan and that don't fit.
still searching ......
Vehicle: 1993 GMC G25/G2500 VAN RALLY
Engine: V8 6.2 Liter Diesel
its the newer main seal pan
BigGun J
09-25-2008, 21:35
Hi Wouter,
If another message shows up very simmilar to this one I lost it while typing?
I am putting my 6.2 in a 1985 Toyota Landcruiser FJ60. 700R4 "with some of Robyn's rebuild suggestions" mated to the Toyota transfer case via a Advanced Adapter. I am very close to turning the key! I bought my military take out from a ebay seller "has a buisness listed with the better buisness bureau" I also found it via Google global maps. He has very good feed back and I talked to him prior to the purchase. He said the motor was out of a hummer. I did not receive it as estimated and when I called the seller he said he was not happy with the compression so he said he built me a fresh one and it would be shipped the following day. New pistons, rings and? I was happy to see the white rebuild grease when I pulled the pan. I was not very happy to see "very small" main web cracks! Of course he has not responded back to me. The web cracks are the very thing we talked about and he said he was not experiencing them with the military take outs as you find in the civilian motors. People suck! I am pushing forward in hopes that this project meets my expectation and if it does I will purchase or build my next 6.2 with someone I can look in the eye. Phone talk is cheap unless they are listed on this site with lots of satisfied customers that freiquent the forum. ebay buyers most not be pulling the pans or just not inspecting the motors as close as I did.
Good luck to you and I wish my self good luck as well.
Sorry for the long, drawn out answer. Jim
_______
93 xtra cab 6.5T 4L80E 2x4 "used no oil or water, YAY! and I got 15 mpg with a small camper on my first road trip keeping it under 65"
85 FJ60 6.2 700R4 4X4 hopefully running and driving within soon.
http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=877932&imageurl=http%3A//info.rockauto.com/SPI/m_gmp40b.jpgWouter, worst comes to worst, you can mig weld the Hummer oil pan so that it patterns exactly like the one you took off of your original van engine. I have done that in the past on a pontiac, with a 'home shop' 88 amp Lincoln welder .
That part number #GMP40B (see picture above) from Rock Auto Parts should fit, if your G20 van is between the years 1992-1997. It has the same exact bolt pattern as the hummer 6.2L & 6.5L engine, up to 2004. While the shape of the oil pan may have changed slightly, they both use the same gasket set also 1992 - 1997 (G20) and 1992 - 2004 (Hummer).
The military engines used the same block and oil pan & gaskets as well. I don't know what engine you have, when you say the old oil pan won't fit. Do you mean the bolt pattern is different, that the oil pan itself does not fit at all? Did you switch out the oil pump and/or the pick up tube? Maybe these are different and cause the oil pan not to fit?
If you have a G20 Van from 1983 thru 1991, the oil pan is different, the gaskets are different, the oil level tube is different. these might not fit (I believe) on the newer Hummer engine if it is one from 1992 on.
Hi Wouter,
If another message shows up very simmilar to this one I lost it while typing?
I am putting my 6.2 in a 1985 Toyota Landcruiser FJ60. 700R4 "with some of Robyn's rebuild suggestions" mated to the Toyota transfer case via a Advanced Adapter. I am very close to turning the key! .
Hi BigGun Jim
let us know, what happen when you turn the key!
Greeting from Holland
http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=877932&imageurl=http%3A//info.rockauto.com/SPI/m_gmp40b.jpgWouter, worst comes to worst, you can mig weld the Hummer oil pan so that it patterns exactly like the one you took off of your original van engine. I have done that in the past on a pontiac, with a 'home shop' 88 amp Lincoln welder .
That part number #GMP40B (see picture above) from Rock Auto Parts should fit, if your G20 van is between the years 1992-1997. It has the same exact bolt pattern as the hummer 6.2L & 6.5L engine, up to 2004. While the shape of the oil pan may have changed slightly, they both use the same gasket set also 1992 - 1997 (G20) and 1992 - 2004 (Hummer).
The military engines used the same block and oil pan & gaskets as well. I don't know what engine you have, when you say the old oil pan won't fit. Do you mean the bolt pattern is different, that the oil pan itself does not fit at all? Did you switch out the oil pump and/or the pick up tube? Maybe these are different and cause the oil pan not to fit?
If you have a G20 Van from 1983 thru 1991, the oil pan is different, the gaskets are different, the oil level tube is different. these might not fit (I believe) on the newer Hummer engine if it is one from 1992 on.
Hi SuperH1
This Chevy G20 Starcraft is build in 1993, it is possible it have not her original engine; The transmission was changed in the past to.
That 6.2L engine could be out of an older car (who knows..); So, I have to check the building year of my old engine. Don't know how I can see that.
The new (military engine is the same problem) I don't know the build year;
Bought this engine complete and as unused, but I'am sure it was long time stored.
The most important different is the connection / seal (halve round) on the back of the pan (transmission site) to the engineblock. The oilpump and tube must be changed too.
The bold pattern are the same.
That part number #GMP40B is possibly available here in The Netherlands, so I will try to compare them.
Thanks so far
85-m1028
09-26-2008, 14:14
the oil pump pickup that came with the HMMWV engine "this part sucks up oil from the pan"
is longer than the one that comes from the van / truck model.
only the HMMWV oil pan will fit over the longer oil pump pickup.
maybe this is your issue?
if so then you need the oil pump with the shorter pickup/intake
I know this because I've been through the same problem
the oil pump pickup that came with the HMMWV engine "this part sucks up oil from the pan"
is longer than the one that comes from the van / truck model.
only the HMMWV oil pan will fit over the longer oil pump pickup.
maybe this is your issue?
if so then you need the oil pump with the shorter pickup/intake
Hi 85-m1028
Yes, I have to change oil pump and pickup intake, from the old engine to the new engine, BUT than..... whats the issue.... http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/images/icons/icon5.gif
I need a oil pan which fit in the chevy VAN (engine compartment / over the front axle);
The (lower part) of the oil pan delivered with the new (hummer?) engine don't fit (over the front axle); and the oil pan of the old engine don't fit on the new engine (connection / seal on the transmission side is different);
It looks like I have to mig weld two oils pans to one (top of the pan from the new engine to the lower part of the oil pan from the old engine).
I still hope to find a part that fit the new engine and the Chevy Van G20;
(I'am not a very good welder and the engine needs oil without losing oil)http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/images/icons/icon11.gif
Member SuperH1 wrote: part number #GMP40B (see picture) from Rock Auto Parts should fit;
I have to look for a possibility to compare this part now, because it is very nice if that part fit.
ALL ADVICE IS REALLY WELCOME
Greetings from Holland
Wouter
85-m1028
09-27-2008, 10:59
Most of the 6.2 hmmwv engines I've seen on e-bay are the older 2 peice rear main seal types. Can you post the casting numbers from the rear of the block, just behind the heads.
Most of the 6.2 hmmwv engines I've seen on e-bay are the older 2 peice rear main seal types. Can you post the casting numbers from the rear of the block, just behind the heads.
You'r great, because the numbers tell me nothing:http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/images/icons/icon4.gif
This is the only way to find more information, I think
I found several numbers on the new military 6.2 block:
14022660
A031 A=Januari? 03=Day? 1=Year? if so Januari 3rd 1981? or 1991? or 2001?
J 17
4 F
(printed paper stickers)
H 088404 (on the oil pan)
HMV or HMU (on the block)
The old 6.2L chevy engine:
10149599
L131 maybe L=Dec 13th. ...1
H
2 F 599
Can you tell more about these numbers?
85-m1028
09-27-2008, 13:47
looks like you have the older two peice rear main seal block 14022660
A one peice rear main seal on 10149599
there's your differece..
I would hang on to that 10149599 block if I were you!! thats a good core to have!!
The oil pan you are looking for would need to be from before 1989, I think "someone correct me on this if I'm wrong".
Wouter if you have the 2 pc. rear mains seal on a humvee engine - this oil pan will work, it was put on the early G20 vans w/2pc. mains:
SPECTRA PREMIUM Oil Pan Part # GMP40A
Use with Oil Level Gauge Tube with GM Part No. 23500853
$105 U.S. at the same place (rockauto.com)
looks like you have the older two peice rear main seal block 14022660
A one peice rear main seal on 10149599
there's your differece..
I would hang on to that 10149599 block if I were you!! thats a good core to have!!
All right 85-m1028!! well done, I think you are right and very helpful....
You found it out with castings numbers?? how did you do that?
So, my "new" engine is very old actually. (lol)
Yip, here is the difference......
Is this one peace main seal (engine) better?
This new military 6.2L didn't drive one mile, is brand-new.
The "old" 6.2L drove about 300.000km. (about 185.000miles?), and I think it's still a good engine, no smoke, uses no oil, drove smooth and is really powerfull for a 6.2L diesel! Maybe a good spare engine? (in stock). It's very oily/dirty, for sure (lol)
I saw a post from SuperH1, he was reading your post to...
Looks like its sure that I have my new oil pan too
If so my project will go on ........
Find out what more to change, seems to be a 24v engine.......
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/images/icons/icon2.gif THX, you'r very helpful http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/images/icons/icon14.gif
Wouter
Let me see if I can help some here. "Scrounge up" = look for, find or to locate what you need.
You will need a pan that is designed for the engine type you have and also to fit the van.
Hope this helps
Robyn
Hi Robyn
I scrounge up during a week on this web-site; looks like this site is very helpful!!!http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/images/icons/icon6.gif
THX for your advice
Wouter if you have the 2 pc. rear mains seal on a humvee engine - this oil pan will work, it was put on the early G20 vans w/2pc. mains:
SPECTRA PREMIUM Oil Pan Part # GMP40A
Use with Oil Level Gauge Tube with GM Part No. 23500853
Hi SuperH1
Looks like this oil pan is the right one, as you mentioned before;
I make a list, what I need more for this military 6.2L diesel, because I have to change more (seems to be a 24v engine) and think I can take the risk to buy this oil pan (and oil level gauge tube.....).
Delivery will take a long way and time from USA -> The Netherlands, so I go first tomorrow (monday) look on a American car salvage, (never know)
THX http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/images/icons/icon7.gif
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