Dealer Says Injection Pump?

[surfbeetle]

I took my truck into the dealer today. We have been having a loud growling noise and no power and black smoke. I changed the vacuum pump and it brought back the power. Then the lack of power became intermittent, so I thought it's the boost control servo inline between the vacuum pump and the wastegate.

The dealer called to tell me that its the injection pump and that the balancer is bad. When the last few injection pumps went bad, we had to have the suburban towed in. This one still drives mostly okay. Obviously, I don't want to spend the money on an Injection Pump. I wonder if I should just change the boost controller and see what happens and change the balancer.

Any ideas?

[More Power]

A bad harmonic damper is not something to take lightly.... If it is, in fact, bad....

It's a safe bet that more often than not, any 6.5 engine running problem would be dealer diagnosed as a bad IP. ;) Eliminate as many other possibilities as you can before taking that last expensive step.

Jim

[surfbeetle]

Thanks for the input, I am thinking that I will buy the boost controller and try that. I hear it's only 35.00 bucks or so. I am going to let the dealer fix the harmonic damper and the coolant cross over leak as I don't have a puller for the damper.

[ronniejoe]

That growling noise, based on the description in your other thread, is most likely the front crank pulley. It is a damped unit to minimize wear on the belt and has a large rubber web. The the rim has spokes that connect it to the hub. There is a bearing between the hub and the spokes so that the rim is free to move relative to the hub with the rubber as the limiter. If the rubber goes bad, their are drive dogs on the hub that will bang into the spokes on the rim. This makes an awful noise and will stop with application of the brake or turning the wheel, because this loads up the power steering pump, keeping the dogs from bouncing against the spokes. Here are a couple of pictures:

http://www.schoolcraftpowertrain.com/Pictures_&_Data/IM000388.JPG

http://www.schoolcraftpowertrain.com/Pictures_&_Data/IM000389.JPG

[surfbeetle]

I picked up the suburban at the dealer last week. I had the crank pulley changed as well as a few other maintenance items done. I did not have them do the injection pump. They had found DTC's P0236 Turbo Boost System and P1216 Injection Pulse width short.

The mechanic told me it was only the PMD but that GM recommends changing the entire pump. I was looking at replacing the PMD with the DTech Pump Mounted Driver at http://www.dtechproducts.com/s.nl/it.A/id.4/.f for a couple hundred dollars.

Can this be replaced easily without removing the pump or should I just get the bracket and wiring harness and remote mount the new PMD?

The next question is regarding the Turbo Boost system. I just replaced the vacuum pump a couple of weeks ago, that helped but did not cure the problem. So, should I just get a new wastegate solenoid or one of those Turbo-Masters that Heath sells? He says that it is not recommended for the stock ecu programming. This is my wife's car and I don't do any towing with it so I don't ever plan on a reprogrammed ECU. With diesel over 5 bucks a gallon, I would like to get this resolved as soon as I can. Thanks

[sturgeon-phish]

Go remote and get the PMD out of the engine compartment. Mine is under the bumper. Even after long hard runs it is < 120 degrees F.
Jim

[AKMark]

Run the turbo master and don't crank it down too hard. Give enough boost to keep the smoke away, but don't go crazy on it. The factory vacuum system is crap. Just my opinion, but that's what I would do.

Buy the remote PMD kit, if you put another PMD on the IP, it will fail eventually. On the remote setup, it will last longer. Not to mention, don't take the current one off the PMD, just disconnect and plug in the harness. Takes a bit of time and frustration out of PMD replacement.

[Robyn]

The dealers generally will try and sell an IP instead of replacing a PMD

(More $$$ in their pocket)

The DTECH seems to be a great unit.
There is no need to fool around with the old PMD, just remove the wiring harness from the exisitng PMD and fish it out of the valley.

This may look like a daunting task but a little careful work with a small screwdriver to lift the lock clip on the plug and a little finger work and the plug will come off without messing with the pump.

The extension cable and remote is the only way to fly.
As far as the vacuum system goes, I am not a great fan either but if the system is sound and the Pump, Hoses, actuator and solenoid are good it does work fine.

The Turbo master will do a great job but it does not always work in harmony with the computer unless the chip or ECM have been changed (depends on the year of truck 94-95 have chip and the 96 and later must have ECM changed)

The issue that arises is that the ECM wants to change and control the boost and the turbo master just works with a spring and the actual boost may not be what the ECM thinks it needs and coded can set and if the boost is too much it will defuel and set a code.
This is not a big deal, just anoying.

The wastegate solenoid is an item notorious for going south so a replacement will likely resolve that issue.

The PMD is a known thorn in the side of 6.5 owners and is easily replaced.

Having a spare PMD in the glove box is a great idea as it can be changed quickly along the road if need be.

Be sure if you replace the PMD to also get a fresh resistor.
This is a little wafer looking thing the drops in a presses over the pins in the PMD plug socket.
These are numbered from 1-9 ,without knowing what your old one is a #5 will suffice. This must be used or a code will set most likely.

This is a calibration adjustment device used to make the system happy.


Good luck

Robyn

[surfbeetle]

Thank you all for your replies.

Robyn, you mention the wafer in the plug for the PMD. Is this resistor common on even the new non Stanadyne PMD? Is there a way to identify whatever my current one is? I am assuming that there is an existing resistor, can I just use that or is it part of the old PMD? Sorry for so many questions.

I think to start, I will order the stock boost controller since its only $30.00 and then get the new PMD remote mounted.

[DmaxMaverick]

Since you have a new vacuum pump anyway, I suggest fixing the OEM boost control. The part(s) aren't too costly, and you've already made the big expense. Consider a Turbomaster when your vacuum pump goes south, and save the cash then.

I also suggest installing the FSD out of the engine compartment with a heat sink. Just leave your current PMD in place for backup. The D-Tech seems like a good option at this time.

[Robyn]

The resistor slips down into the plug socket but can be a real nast critter to get out doen in the hole. Just get a fresh #6 and go with the flow.
The dealers that sell the Dtech can help. It cant be plugged in wrong ( well easily anyway) :eek:

Best

Robyn

[rustyk]

GM Dealer Troubleshooting Guide:

"1. Determine the most expensive part that MIGHT correct the problem.

2. Determine the next most expensive part that MIGHT correct the problem.

3. Etc."

[surfbeetle]

So here's an update on this saga...
I bought the new Dtech PMD from Pensacola Diesel with the #9 resistor and the remote heat sink. Also got the boost control solenoid from Kennedy. I changed the solenoid last week and it helped. Today, I installed the new PMD with the #9 resistor. I also fixed a leak I had the fuel system. It drives like a totally different truck. I am very happy with how it runs now.

[axemann]

Surfbeatle... What resistor did you have in your old PMD, and how much of a difference, and in what way have you noticed the truck behave with the #9?

[surfbeetle]

I don't know what resistor I had. I would assume that it was a #5 because the dealer installed the last seven injection pumps into this truck. The consensus around here is that stock is usually a 5 or 6. The reason I don't know for sure is that I used a long screwdriver and extended needle nose piers to disconnect the plug harness from the PMD on the Injection Pump and fished it up so I could plug in the extension harness and relocate the PMD with a heat sink. I was not able to see the resistor in the old PMD as I left it in the stock location.

One other thing, I bought this truck used and it was pretty quick. At that point, it had a few Injection Pumps under its belt. When the first one for me failed, it came back from the dealer with a new pump and it could not move out of its own way. This behavior continued on the next 2 or 3 pumps ( I've lost count).

Now that I have the Dtech PMD and the #9 resistor, I am back to the performance it had when I first bought it. I can only assume that it must have had a #9 on it when I bought it.

[winemaker]

I installed a Dtech on my Heath remote mount last month, and I have to say thanks to Robyn for mentioning the resistor, because the new FSD didn't come with one and the instructions made no mention of it. I ordered directly from DTech, so I called them and asked about it, and they concured with Robyn.

[Zac6.5]

Sorry to jump in here. Within the last few weeks my 6.5 has been taking two or three 5 sec tries to start and I have noticed a pulsing sensation upon acceleration. I am new to the 6.5's. It seems like many people have changed there Injection Pumps. Am I most likely looking at my first? Is it normal to be in the 130,000 mile range and be on the first one? Is the PMD a likely candidate? Thanks ahead of time.

[Burning Oil]

Someone please correct or confirm me. I read (i think a shop manual) years ago that the # resistor on the PMD has to be programed into the PCM or it will NOT reconize a new resistor. I do know this and it helps my statement, you can run without a resistor at all. So if you put a #9 in and the PCM is set up for a #4 you will not get the fueling of a #9 you will still be at a #4.

[Burning Oil]

Sorry to jump in here. Within the last few weeks my 6.5 has been taking two or three 5 sec tries to start and I have noticed a pulsing sensation upon acceleration. I am new to the 6.5's. It seems like many people have changed there Injection Pumps. Am I most likely looking at my first? Is it normal to be in the 130,000 mile range and be on the first one? Is the PMD a likely candidate? Thanks ahead of time.

The IP can act up at anytime. I have seen them bad at 40K. To me it does sound like IP and or PMD problems. Mine did exactly what you discribe and it was the IP, so I converted it to a DB2 IP on my 1996. Before I converted it I made my own PMD extention cable for it and sell them on ebay also.
Email or PM me for a link.

[Zac6.5]

I have a PMD extension and I am waiting on a PMD in the mail. Do I have the DB2 IP? I have been anticipating the PMD so I went ahead and got one and have been reading this section. How could I know what resister I have? What's your email? For some reason I can't PM you. Thanks

[Burning Oil]

I have a PMD extension and I am waiting on a PMD in the mail. Do I have the DB2 IP? I have been anticipating the PMD so I went ahead and got one and have been reading this section. How could I know what resister I have? What's your email? For some reason I can't PM you. Thanks

Just click on my user name and you should be able to PM me.
If you have a PMD on your pump then you do not have a DB2 it is a DS4 electronic. Im not sure how to know what resistor you have just by looking at it.
Something else I just remembered. The resitor comes into play at WOT only. The rest of the time it is not used at all.

[Zac6.5]

Sorry, it says I may not have PM access or administrator hasn't turned it on. I put you on my buddylist and still no luck. What is WOT? Without Turbo? Also another part of my saga is sometimes when I am sitting at a redlight the truck will jump a little like someone bumped me from behind. Is that something you've heard before? Well I will relocate my new PMD Saturday.

[DmaxMaverick]

Sorry, it says I may not have PM access or administrator hasn't turned it on. I put you on my buddylist and still no luck. What is WOT? Without Turbo? Also another part of my saga is sometimes when I am sitting at a redlight the truck will jump a little like someone bumped me from behind. Is that something you've heard before? Well I will relocate my new PMD Saturday.

You should be able to PM now. Send me an email if you can't.

[Burning Oil]

Sorry, it says I may not have PM access or administrator hasn't turned it on. I put you on my buddylist and still no luck. What is WOT? Without Turbo? Also another part of my saga is sometimes when I am sitting at a redlight the truck will jump a little like someone bumped me from behind. Is that something you've heard before? Well I will relocate my new PMD Saturday.

Looks like it may be turned on now.
WOT= wide open throttle.