NV4500 replacement for SM456

[cakeordeath?]

What say you all?

I've a '84 1 ton 4x4 with the stock GM SM456 (no OD).

I'd like to put in a NV4500 taken out of a mid-90's GM 2500 4x4.

What will the swap be like?

Bolt in?

Adapter in?

Fabricate in?

Forget it, buy a gear venders unit?



Thanks!

[Hubert]

Visit pirate4x4 dot com and review there info on swaps. The NV4500 is a popular transmission for swap. Should be fairly easy and adapters availiable if required.

One issue would be clutch linkage issues. The pre 96 nv4500 I believe use a fork w/ external hydraulic actuation that should be similar. After 96 they use an internal concentric slave and not sure if there is a place for adding a ball stud fork system or if it would be easier to find hydraulic master that would work easier?

[a5150nut]

Use the bell housing and clutch from the doner truck. Everybody said the automatics interchange.........

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

Buddy did a conversion using the SM465 housing and linkage.

[cakeordeath?]

Thanks guys. I will research this further.

[vr1967]

I did the swap on my 82 4x4 that had a 465. I used a 93 NV4500 with it's bellhousing. The NP208 went strainght up to the 4500. Used the clutch master cyl from an 85-87 Chevy pu, slave cyl from the 93. Used a 12" clutch from a 96 3500. Had to make a 3" spacer for the mount to the crossmember.
I cut my out around my shifter hole so that I could turn it around and weld back in, moving the hole back 3 or 4 inches and used all the same shift boot, etc.

Hope this helps.

Virgil

[cakeordeath?]

I cut my out around my shifter hole so that I could turn it around and weld back in, moving the hole back 3 or 4 inches and used all the same shift boot, etc.

Clever.

I have the NP205 so I have to figure that part out as well.

Anybody know if the NV4500 were in all post '88 GM K2500's diesel vehicles or did the NV3500 find their way in any of these trucks? Or were the NV3500s found in 2wd 2500 diesel trucks only?

[vr1967]

If you have or can find a round pattern 205, (they started in 84 or 85 or their abouts) it will be a straight bolt up on that part.

The NV4500 was first used in 1993, in 3/4 and 1T pickups.

[cakeordeath?]

If you have or can find a round pattern 205, (they started in 84 or 85 or their abouts) it will be a straight bolt up on that part.

The NV4500 was first used in 1993, in 3/4 and 1T pickups.


I have an '84 1-ton. When you say "round pattern", you mean the part of the 205 that attaches to the back of the tranny?

Thanks for the heads up on the year the NV4500 was introduced.

[vr1967]

Yes, it has 6 bolts in a round pattern where it attaches to the transmission. The older style 205 used 8 bolts in a racetrack or figure 8 pattern.
All this is assuming you have an 81 up 205 case, as they have 32 spline input shafts, where the earlier ones for the 465 were 10 spline inputs.

Virgil

[cakeordeath?]

Yes, it has 6 bolts in a round pattern where it attaches to the transmission. The older style 205 used 8 bolts in a racetrack or figure 8 pattern.
All this is assuming you have an 81 up 205 case, as they have 32 spline input shafts, where the earlier ones for the 465 were 10 spline inputs.

Virgil

Thanks!

I checked. I have the newer style, which is the right one for the vehicle I have (1984).

[vr1967]

Do you have a hydraulic clutch? 84 or 85 was the first year. If not, you will need a set of pedals for the hydraulic clutch.
The 93-95 slave cylinder is mounted low on the passenger side, but unless you are rock crawling or such there should be no problem. I onlyhad about 2" of clearance between it and my front driveshaft, and have NEVER touched, even though I have "flexed" it a good bit.
If I can help in any way, please feel free to post, PM, or email me at virgilroberts@hotmail.com

Virgil

[cakeordeath?]

Do you have a hydraulic clutch? 84 or 85 was the first year. If not, you will need a set of pedals for the hydraulic clutch.
The 93-95 slave cylinder is mounted low on the passenger side, but unless you are rock crawling or such there should be no problem. I onlyhad about 2" of clearance between it and my front driveshaft, and have NEVER touched, even though I have "flexed" it a good bit.
If I can help in any way, please feel free to post, PM, or email me at virgilroberts@hotmail.com

Virgil

Good question. It seemed as if I saw non-hydraulic clutch linkage, but now I'm not so sure. As it turns out, I just got some injectors back from the rebuild shop so in the next few days I'm going to install them and give everything a close lookover.

Thanks.

[Busted]

Just a few things to think of

If your transmission adapter to tcase is the round 6 bolt pattern, you will have a 32-spline female input shaft on the 205 and it's almost a straight bolt up. Only difficulty is that the 205 input is too long and will bottom out on the tranny shaft before the mating surfaces connect. You can have a spacer machined or swap the 205 input for a short version, which was found on the early style 205's behind TH400 tranny's. When I did my swap (with an early style 205 and TH400) I went the other way--short to long input because I needed a bolt pattern adapter anyway.

The bolt pattern fits, but is rotated differently--one hole in the transmission flange needs to be elongated a bit, five millimeters if I remember correctly, for the driver's side drop case.

If your donor truck has 8-lug wheels and is 1992.5 or newer, the tranny is an NV4500.

The external slave cylinder on the NV4500 has clearance issues with the front driveshaft on SFA chevys, so I used an SM465 bell and mech. linkage.

Once it's done though, you'll LOVE the swap. No regrets here at all.

[gophergunner]

I'm taking notes here too......this may be very useful to me in the future.

Does the bellhousing from an SM465 bolt up to an NV4500.....? Or does it require any mods to bolt up?

my other option is a 2wd NV4500 and use a divorced 205 t-case, which i have sittin out in the shed somewhere.

Even though i didn't start this thread, great info and thanks for it everyone:D

[Busted]

On the early NV4500's (92-94?) the input bearing cover (the piece that the bell centres on) is the same size as the truck SM465's, but the bolt pattern is differnent. You can drill and tap the SM465 pattern into the NV case, all four bolts go into the flange so you don't have to worry about getting into the case, but they have to be installed from the inside of the bell. I'll post pictures up this evening if you're interested, much clearer that way. It's a bit of work but worth it in my opinion to avoid the hydro stuff. No bleeding, no possibility of leaks, no linkage failure ever--I can handle a heavier pedal for that :p

Edit: Gophergunner, just noticed you're from Alberta too--whereabouts are you located?

[Turbo Al]

For info or adaptors for the NV4500

www.newventuregear.com
www.advanceadapters.com
www.high-impact.net
www.drivetrain.com
www.jbconversions.com

If you can't find it on one of these it don't exist LOL.

Sorry it took so long to respond been a "little" under the weather.

[cakeordeath?]

Thanks for the additional info guys!

[vr1967]

Another place for info is www.nv4500.com On the left is a Tech section, and it describes all the differences between Chevy and Dodge, 2wd vs 4wd, etc.

Busted said:
The external slave cylinder on the NV4500 has clearance issues with the front driveshaft on SFA chevys, so I used an SM465 bell and mech. linkage.

There is about 2 inches of clearance between the slave and the front drive shaft, BUT this is on the transfer case side. The front axle would have to move a foot and a half to two feet to get it into the slave. I've run mine for about 5 or 6 years now without a single issue. I have flexed my truck a bit working it, but I don't rock crawl.

Busted, what did you do for a spacer to go between the trans and the mount? I took 2" flat bar and welded a "open box" 3" high by 6"or 7" long. (don't remember this number off my head) I used 2 bolts and mounted it solid to where the trans mount bolts usually go, and then used the normal bolts that went thru the mounts and put nuts on top of them in the box. Hard to explain, but it is pretty simple.

Alot of good information here.!

[gophergunner]

On the early NV4500's (92-94?) the input bearing cover (the piece that the bell centres on) is the same size as the truck SM465's, but the bolt pattern is differnent. You can drill and tap the SM465 pattern into the NV case, all four bolts go into the flange so you don't have to worry about getting into the case, but they have to be installed from the inside of the bell. I'll post pictures up this evening if you're interested, much clearer that way. It's a bit of work but worth it in my opinion to avoid the hydro stuff. No bleeding, no possibility of leaks, no linkage failure ever--I can handle a heavier pedal for that :p

Edit: Gophergunner, just noticed you're from Alberta too--whereabouts are you located?

hey, i sent you a pm a couple days ago.......but to answer your question i am around edmonton most of the time.

[jggiedeman]

I wound up replacing a T400/NP208 with a NV4500. The truck was an 84 K3500. Because of the straight axle I did the following;

Had to move the tunnel opening back 3-4" - I had the tranny mounted on the engine and tilted up to meet the tunnel. Kind of made my marks. I had to fill in some low areas from the original indentation for a 465. I also figured in where I would need to make the cuts for the transaxle. Went pretty smooth but don't expect to put 10 and older kids in the middle of a bench seat with this mod.

I installed a 85-87 clutch/brake pedal assy. Bought it off of car-part.com. My tranny was a '98 so I wanted to stay with the interanl slave cylinder. The clutch master cylinder was a 85-87 unit but I also bought a complete 98 cluctch system. I only needed the metal hose but you can't get them separate from GM. I had a hose shop cut and braze the two systems together. The reservoir was also a 85-87 item but new from GM.

I liked the setup with an internal slave since the front drive shaft and exhaust made it pretty difficult to work on after everything was installed.

I spent $10-15 on advanceadapters for a couple of catalogs/install guides. You should be able to find all kinds of install info on the web.

The new clutch/brake pedal assy will require you to get way up under your dash. It has two additional support bars that are used to mount the clutch master cylinder. You need to find two small dimples (looking from front of truck) up and to the left of the firewall wiring harness connection. Up and to the right from the steering column. Can't recall which way the holes are oriented. Bottom left - top right or the other way. Don't get to crazy when you cut out the hole in the firewall for the clutch master cylinder. Since you are going to this trouble I would also recommend changing out your hydroboost unit if original or questionable. Try Hydratech brakes. They use a 96 model but set it up for you foolproof.

Since you already have a 4 speed you don't need to worry about the wiring harness for the clutch reverse switch. Don't know your feelings on clutch safety switch but the 84 won't work on the 85-87. Tried it and threw it away. I was the only at the time driving it so no big deal.

Go GM on your shifter and shifter boot assy's. Makes for a nice install. When you finish adding oil through the top ensure you use proper thread sealant on the tranny cover boot. mine backed out and egg smell in the cab for weeks.

I also called LUK clutch and they reasearched what I needed for my install. Was different from their website. It was done this way since the NV4500 didn't have an application for the two piece seal 6.2L crankshaft.

Good luck,

Jerry