Cracked 6.5L GEP/AM General Block

[klink k5]

Was going to upload pics but this sight has limitations on it i guess. Anyway have a 24,000 mile engine with all three 4 bolt main webs broke/cracked and nobody wants to stand behind it. By the way this is in a all STOCK 92 3/4 ton 4x4 with factory turbo. Just a little FYI for future buyers. $6500.00 Paper weight

[restoguy]

Interesting........ Keep us informed about this. What's the complete history of the engine?(supplier, install date, etc.) I was just talking to a friend today about wether I should buy a GEP engine to build an 18:1 on or just use one of my 'seasoned' blocks.

[daustin]

Hey klink, PM me and i'll give you my email address so you can send me the pics'. I have some software i can resize those and post them, also the 'place would be interested in that as well.
Don

[DmaxMaverick]

If you have pics too large to attach to a post, upload them to the TDP Photo Album (http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/index.php), and link them into the page. The Photo Album (http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/index.php) is available to all registered users, and the size restrictions are much more generous than the inline attachments, and it will automatically resize images to several sizes. PM/email me or a mod for help with this, if needed.

[More Power]

Be sure to include photos of the block casting number and date code, also include the vendor's name, date of purchase and any stated/declared warranty.

Jim

[TurboDiverArt]

Just a suggestion here. Please make sure that before you post the vendor you got it from, make sure you’ve contacted them and they refuse to warrantee or do anything for you. Not fair to post the vendor in a "no support" thread if you haven't checked with them first. I assume you have also contact AMG? You can contact them from their website, I've done it a few times and they are very responsive. It would be nice to know what their responses are.

Very disconcerting if a new AMG crate motor cracked. Was your engine a complete engine including IP? Reason I ask is that I believe complete engines are test fired and the IP is set correctly. If not, did you or a mechanic set the IP? I would think that if the IP were set too far retarded it would probably put a lot of additional stress on the internals including the block webbing. Just curious.

Art.

[More Power]

I found this post made by klink Nov 9, 2007.
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=29836

In it he said:


I bought a NEW 6.5l form international diesel engines out of brooklyn New York in july 2005. I have a little over 20,000 miles on it and devistation stuck the other day. I was driving it down the road and I lost all of my heat. I shut it down to check the coolant level and it was low. I filled it with water to find the leak, I did not see any running out of the engine so I checked the oil level. Boy it was FULL! I pulled the pan last night to find the problem and This DAM NEW ENGINE main webs cracked on #2 & #3 main webs! Why would the latest and greatest block fail already? Engine showed no signs of FAILURE or Problems at ALL! Still ran good before pulling the pan. Now I have nothing, were do I get a NEW BLOCK to FIX MYengine.

I would want to get a careful look at it before assuming it's a newer AMG engine. The complete forum thread linked here raises some questions...

Jim

[TurboDiverArt]

Using the posted casting numbers from the other thread, can anyone verify this is in fact an AMG block? Maybe it's a new block with a suspect crank or bad balancer. You start a crank wobbling and even the best block is going to fail.

Art.

[john8662]

I thought this thread was a Deja Vu thread...

[Robyn]

I went back and reread the original threadI have seen 3 of the Chinese copies now from 2 different sources and they did NOT have any logos that I recognized.If this engine in question did have a navistar Logo I wonder what the deal is?I am very suspect that this is some sort of bag of worms that was turned loose on an unsuspecting buyer. I have seen one bare Navisitar block in a local shop that had bought it from lord knows who.It was in fine shape according to the shop keeper (he is on the up and up always)It will be interesting to see any Pix if Klink ever posts any. I have asked him to send me some via my email but have yet to hear a response.We shall see.Robyn

[rustyk]

Since my Peninsular/AMG engine is in a diesel pusher, I can look all around the engine; anyone know where the casting IDs would be? I may even be able to take photos.

[More Power]

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/blockcastingnumber.jpg

On the bellhousing flange, just left of center. :)

Jim

[rustyk]

Thanks! I have a pretty full dance card tomorrow, but will try to get pix of the casting numbers.

[klink k5]

Back to the top, I'm working on getting pics out with a couple of guys. Thanks, you'll like the pics so stay tuned.

[rustyk]

Thanks! I have a pretty full dance card tomorrow, but will try to get pix of the casting numbers.

While I can see the casting, I can't get a good reading - gonna take making a tool to clean off the numbers. I'm on the road now, until 3/10...

[klink k5]

I am finally done with AM General/GEP. They said to me today-from a rep at GEP(4/2/08) and i quote" I dont care about your engine, even if we built it, you need to go back to the origional vendor. This conversation is over." So who wants pics? Info, whatever...................I'm selling out now.......... Their position is to sell a engine to anybody(dealers) with out ANY KIND OF WARRANTY!!!!!!! The dealer has to provide their OWN warranty on the engine THEY SELL> that they BUY FROM GEP! Thats how AM GENERAL/GEP does bussiness!!!!!!!!!!!! They do not honor any of there products. Build junk, sell it and forget it. I wish I could have a bussiness with "no liabilities" My vendor that I bought the engine from has gone thru loops and over hurdles and around anda around with GEP and about the block I have cracked. Ive been working on this issue since OCTOBER 2007 and here is the Awnser folks. GEP sells all of their engines out of their factory WITH NO WARRANTY. Ther vendors/buyers make there own warrantys after they buy the engines from GEP, reguardless if it blows up on start up, oil pump falure, bad pistion, any or all other falures, they CLAIM NO RESPONSIBILITY after they sell it, IT IS DONE (This is how your main GM Parts division gets there engines also) My advise, by from GM dealer, pay the price and get the 3yr warrany. #$%k the lowballers. Man am I pissed. Anyone have a good non GEP block for sale? I fixed this truck because I heard how great the optomizer 6500 was supposed to be and truthfully heard about all of the block improvements and thought it was the ticket to give life to this daily driver again! Or who wants to buy a cherry 1992 K2500 4x4 reg cab with a BAD ENGINE! I stuck 8,000.00 into this truck 2 years ago cause it was worth fixing(it is that nice) now it is a piece of crap

[More Power]

This is why it's important to deal with a reliable vendor who will go the extra mile to satisfy his customers. Ultimately, it is the vendor who must solicit help from AMG, or the vendor provides a replacement himself. You should not have to deal with the manufacturer.

I know of at least one authorized AMG vendor who works with AMG regarding warranty.

Jim

[d.h.]

If your interested I may have block and heads "f" type

[DmaxMaverick]

This really isn't all that surprising. AMG/GEP are doing us a favor, for lack of a better term. They were contracted to supply military use engines. They have been allowed by the military contractor to sell surplus to the public. The military doesn't get a warranty from the mfg. They are their own warranty dept. If you bought a new H-1, would you expect warranty service from the mfg? They don't offer it to the primary contracted buyer, why would they offer it to you? You would have to deal with the seller. The new engines are superior to previous engines, but there will still be failures. It's the nature of the beast. It's unfortunate you got one, but your problem lies with the vendor/supplier, not the manufacturer. In the end, too many complaints by consumers in regards to their place of purchase may cause AMG/GEP to stop selling outside their contracts. That way, there would be no more consumer complaints about failed product. But at the same time, there won't be any consumer product to complain about.

[klink k5]

Ok all understandable, but do you like your old pickup/vechile so much you are willing to spend 6500.00+labor every couple of years to run 20,000 miles on a NEW engine? Gee, dosent seem economical to me.

[ronniejoe]

This really isn't all that surprising. AMG/GEP are doing us a favor, for lack of a better term. They were contracted to supply military use engines. They have been allowed by the military contractor to sell surplus to the public. The military doesn't get a warranty from the mfg. They are their own warranty dept. If you bought a new H-1, would you expect warranty service from the mfg? They don't offer it to the primary contracted buyer, why would they offer it to you? You would have to deal with the seller. The new engines are superior to previous engines, but there will still be failures. It's the nature of the beast. It's unfortunate you got one, but your problem lies with the vendor/supplier, not the manufacturer. In the end, too many complaints by consumers in regards to their place of purchase may cause AMG/GEP to stop selling outside their contracts. That way, there would be no more consumer complaints about failed product. But at the same time, there won't be any consumer product to complain about.

I'm sorry, but this argument is absurd.

[DmaxMaverick]

I'm sorry, but this argument is absurd.

How so?

There should be some accountability by the mfg, but how is not the responsibility of the vendor? Why should a consumer have to contact a mfg if a purchase is through a vendor? Is there an express warranty provided by AMG/GEP? What obligation do they have, outside their original contract? If not for the military contract, there would be no new 6.5L engine design. The market would not support it, and we'd be stuck with the same old thing.

[ronniejoe]

You're mixing apples and oranges in your reasoning.

First, AMG/GEP chose to market their engines for commercial sales. Part of the agreement between GM and AMG when the sale of the 6.5 program was completed was to provide service support for the 6.5.

Do you think that GM will eat all the warranty associated with engines produced by GEP? NO! AMG/GEP will foot the bill. Do you think that Kennedy Diesel or Peninsular foot the warranty bill for the AMG/GEP engines that they sell? NO! Where you are correct is that the customer must go through the dealer or vendor to get the support. AMG/GEP will only work with their authorized vendors. So the process is that the customer contacts the dealer with his complaint. If the dealer believes it has merit, he contacts AMG/GEP with the complaint. AMG/GEP will then evaluate the complaint. If it has merit, they issue warranty payment to the dealer who then squares up with the customer. I never said that the customer should have to contact the manufacturer directly. You put those words into my keyboard.:)

The absurdity lies in your reasoning that they are contracted to the government to build these engines with no warranty; therefore, they do not provide a warranty to the commercial side. This just shows a lack of understanding of how defense contractors work. I've spent 20 years working in the aerospace business where the same engine model (basically) is sold to the government with no warranty and to the commercial sector with a substantial warranty.

You are correct in saying that there would be no new development of this platform without the government contract.

What is likely happening here is that the dealer he bought the engine from is not an authorized AMG/GEP reseller. AMG/GEP will not assume any liability in that case. Buyer beware.

[DmaxMaverick]

That is my point. There is no warranty expressed by AMG/GEP to the end user. Any warranty would be negotiated between the mfg and it's distributors. There is an implied warranty with all products produced and sold in the US. In that, the product must provide a service as described or advertised. Once a component is installed and placed into service (as with a government contract), the warranty ends. If a defect is discovered prior to or during installation or placement into service, the mfg must replace/repair the product. Any warranty between a civilian supplier and the mfg has to be negotiated and argued by the supplier. While not the experience you have, I do have experience with intermediate and depot level military aircraft component service, repair, engineering and sourcing (mostly flight control systems). I've worked very closely with Grumman, Lockheed, Vought and Bendix, among others, for several years, and their policies are the same as we are seeing with AMG/GEP. Many of their military products contracted to the military/government are marketed to the public. They also design and market non-military products of the same or similar technology to the public. If the ABS system in your vehicle had issues, you would have no chance of getting it resolved dealing with the mfg. You have to handle it through the distributor, GM, or whomever involved.

I think you are right about the vendor. Probably not an authorized AMG/GEP distributor. I wonder how they are sourcing them. Unless they are buying and selling seconds, discards, and/or returns, they would have to contract with the mfg in some manner. Or, they are sourcing them through another authorized supplier. I can't imagine AMG/GEP releasing sound products through uncontracted vendors. Too much assumed liability with that scenario.

[More Power]

What is likely happening here is that the dealer he bought the engine from is not an authorized AMG/GEP reseller. AMG/GEP will not assume any liability in that case. Buyer beware.

That needs to be explored... ;)

Jim

[klink k5]

Um everybody is missing the POINT: GEP/Am General does not offer any warranty TO ANY OF ITS VENDORS AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS WAS TOLD TO ME BY SEVERAL GOOD SOURCES. When ANYBODY BUYS A ENGINE DIRECTLY form GEP, it is a tailight warranty to all of there vendors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is what I know for a fact. GM has there own warranty on their engine AFTER THEY GET IT FROM GEP, none at all before! This is the same for all other vendors. Just a $$$$$$ loss (when they have a claim) to any vendor that buys from GEP/AM General. I have researched the hell out of this, made more phone calls than I have ever dreamed about! If someone else knows more than me or has a angle to have GEP stand behind thjeir junk, YOU let me know first! Also believe me, I have no intention bashing GEP/AM general but these are the cold hard facts I have learned about them. My case in point I have a engine that was purchased in july 2005 that i finished installing October 2005 went down with 20,xxx miles on it in October 2007. I bought this engine with a unlimited 1 year warranty. It ran great, never a problem. I could not be happier! THEN I HAD A PROBLEM and the ONLY problem is that the COOLANT GOT INTO the OIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We'll i told myself( this is not good,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,better not drive it anymore, the heat doesnt work check the for coolant leaks, no visible coolant leaks, were did my antifreeze go??????????????? OH I discovered thsat the OIL was WAY full and Milky, I know the diffrence between a radiator cap and a OIL CAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Pulled it out and pulled the PAN, Wohla, A CRACKED BLOCK. I would of had ZERO problems buying a engine from a GM dealership but would have cost me 1200.00 more at the time. (that 1200.00 I saved bout me a engine with a 1 year warranty) HOW DID I do this to my engine? Well beats the hell out of me? AND yes everything was new also when the engine was put in and believe me, EVERYTHING. So how do you people feel now about GEP now? IM SICK as hell. If someone can prove to me that GEP is legit and would help me out, I will give a hundred dollars to them!(NO BULL) I am shure my money is safe with all that is said.

[More Power]

.....October 2005 went down with 20,xxx miles on it in October 2007. I bought this engine with a unlimited 1 year warranty.

Yes, we all want our engines to run a good long time without a problem, and like you, I would be unhappy with just 2 years of service. But, as you stated above, your vendor apparently did provide a warranty... Were you aware of the one year warranty when you bought it?

Jim

[winemaker]

Klink,
Sorry about the bad news. I don't mean to rub salt in the wound, and I'm sure I'd be spittin' mad in your shoes, too. The question I have, having read this thread through again, is what has International Diesel said/done about this? You've obviously done your homework on AMG/GEP, but there seams to be some question regarding the authenticity of the product they sell. If it is in fact a knockoff, International Diesel is where I would focus my attention.
Good Luck. I hope you get some satisfaction out of all this.
Brett

[klink k5]

Yes, we all want our engines to run a good long time without a problem, and like you, I would be unhappy with just 2 years of service.* But, as you stated above, your vendor apparently did provide a warranty... Were you aware of the one year warranty when you bought it? *Jim

Absolutly I was aware of the warranty, thats why i spent the extra coin on my end for pump injectors, oil cooler, water pump, radiator, glow plugs, clutch fan.................My engine did NOT fail, the BLOCK DID I know you people reading this think I am nuts by crying about my block but "GEP"s redefined enhanced better alloy block .................................................. ........still failed. I bought this engine because I wanted the best and it was running fine before I pulled it out, just had to find why the oil was all milky. It had no problem running, just did not hold water anymore. AND YES IT IS A GEP BLOCK.. International Harvestor logo and all...................My only and one arguement is if this block/engine was SO GREAT, why did the block crack and everything else looks like new in side? They probally never attemted to fix their problems with the 6.5L block, GEP just wants everybody to probally believe them. I am nobody to them I guess. Just another $$$$$$$$$$ loss. But I am a consumer telling my problems about my engine block, not to talk about wash machines.

[john8662]

I still would like to see the detailed images of the block in question. I've seen a few of the knock-off blocks and might be able to ID such a block if you've indeed gotten one verses the genuine AMG block.

Without the images, the jury is still out.

[winemaker]

Again, what does/did International Diesel say or do about it?

[DmaxMaverick]

Again, what does/did International Diesel say or do about it?

What would they have to say? They are only the foundry. They would suggest he contact his supplier, and nothing more. They may take in interest if a flaw in the castings were discovered in several, but they still won't take an interest in a warranty claim. Bark up the wrong tree, if you must. It won't serve your interest or provide a solution to the problem at hand.

[ronniejoe]

He's talking about the outfit, International Diesel, in Ronkonkoma, NY...not the foundry.

[klink k5]

Ok you all can look in my photo gallery now. Let me know what all you experts think. Thanks!

[More Power]

Two years and 20K miles you say? Looks like desert camo....;)

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0365_2.JPG

[JohnC]

Ok you all can look in my photo gallery now. Let me know what all you experts think. Thanks!


OK, what am I missing? Where are the photos?

(OK, I found them. I'm bandwidth challenged so it was unfamiliar territory.)

I didn't see the IH Logo... Why are you so sure this is not a counterfit? Also, if International Diesel cannot buy blocks from AMG/GEP, where do you think they get them from? If they are selling them on the cheap, it is unlikely they are buying them from legitimate vendors, so...

[CedarGrove]

Can we get a photo of the valley showing the Navistar diamonds?

[JohnC]

Can we get a photo of the valley showing the Navistar diamonds?

And the date code!

[klink k5]

Again EVERBODY this was a complete GEP/AM General Built Engine, bought thru International Diesel out of NEW York. Complete longblock assembly, had a delco filter on it, all the nice little paint marker stripes over the plugs and bolts, plastic plug caps in all of the injector holes, and It came with diffrent motor mount bolts and bellhousing bolts also, + new motor mount clams and the instructions to boot for the new bolt kit. Plus if you look at the pic of my nice dirty gravel road covered engine, you notice a paper tag that is still sticking to the head and block? Not readable but it is there. Sorry about NOT having a pic of the Navistar logo, the Pump was still on the block and could not get a pic of it when (the pump) it was on and when I had the camera out. Geez do I have to bring the block by your house so you can look at it there? Date code is also in the pics I posted in the photo album. What dont you people believe? Oh it also has the larger oil coooler fittings needed near the oil filter boss.

[ronniejoe]

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0368_2.JPG

Does this mean December 17, 2003?

[TAG]

Dude, if you want sympathy, you wont get it here until you produce the proof everyone is asking for. If your engine is a true brand new AMG engine, you have my sympathy, if you tried to skin a fat hog & get away with something, oh well. No one has heard of a real AMG engine cracking, thus the skeptics. Nobody reading your posts is going to warranty your engine, & there is a lot of negative feedback on the outfit you bought the engine from. All we really want to know is if it is a genuine AMG engine that was built in their factory. Quit beating around the bush & let us know.

[DmaxMaverick]

Klink

We are behind you 100%. We do not doubt for a second you believe you bought an AMG/GEP engine. We'll give you every benefit of doubt until we have something solid to change that (it's the same fore everyone). Let us be the devil's advocate on this. It is your loss, and you are not going to lose any more than you already have. We are skeptical, to be sure. We gain nothing, win or lose, other than education. The pieces just don't fit, and what you are hearing from us is in your best interest. No one is calling you a liar. These engines (late AMG's) just don't break with any regularity. We know they will at some point. It's just the nature of the beast. It's too bad it happened to be you. Please try to keep an open mind on this. No one here is trying to do anything other than help you and your situation. That's what we do. Try not to forget where you are.

[JohnC]

What dont you people believe?

It's sort of like this:

I tell you I have a Snap-on wrench and it's a POS because it broke while I was trying to take a nut off. I called the Snap-on factory and they told me I had to contact the guy who sold it to me. The guy who sold it to me is not an authorized Snap-on dealer, but he sold it to me for less than an authorized dealer would have, so I bought it. He's telling me to pound sand. Good luck getting a decent wrench from Snap-on!

This raises the following questions:

How did the unauthorized seller obtain a Snap-on wrench? How is he able to sell it for less than an authorized dealer who bought direct? Could my wrench be a factory reject that should have been destroyed? A used wrench replaced on warranty? Stolen? A Chinese knockoff?

My guess is I got schnookered by the seller and if I can't get anything from him, that's the price of a low ball price. Next time I'll buy my wrenches from Harbor Freight. Not Snap-on, but still a lifetime warranty... ;)

[More Power]

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0368_2.JPG

Does this mean December 17, 2003?

No, the first two digits are the month, the next two digits are the day of the month, and the letter indicates the year in which it was cast. So, a "03 17 L" would be March 17, 2004.

H = 2001
J = 2002
K = 2003
L = 2004
M = 2005
N = 2006
P = 2007

This engine has not aged well. It looks more like one that is 20 years old. Why is that? The date code appears genuine. Why all the Iraq looking dust/grime accumulation?

Jim

[klink k5]

The pickup the engine is in sees a gravel road everyday, I farm in northwest Iowa, all of our gravel roads are pit run, redish sand and two mile treck to the nearst paved road. I know the outside of the 6.5 looks dirty as heck, but I live in the country and I use this truck (we'll I did) for daily farm chores. (Posted a picture of the pickup K2500 in my gallery, still haveing trouble posting pics here on this post), thank you all for the replys to this tread. I will have pics to post of my engine (bare block) as soon as I get my engine back from New York. Alot of stuff in the works to get my engine back, with a totally different block. Thats my update for now thanks again. Thanks for breaking down the date code for me, did you see the block casting number as well, wada you think on that?

[1999GMC]

It's sort of like this:

I tell you I have a Snap-on wrench and it's a POS because it broke while I was trying to take a nut off. I called the Snap-on factory and they told me I had to contact the guy who sold it to me. The guy who sold it to me is not an authorized Snap-on dealer, but he sold it to me for less than an authorized dealer would have, so I bought it. He's telling me to pound sand. Good luck getting a decent wrench from Snap-on!

This raises the following questions:

How did the unauthorized seller obtain a Snap-on wrench? How is he able to sell it for less than an authorized dealer who bought direct? Could my wrench be a factory reject that should have been destroyed? A used wrench replaced on warranty? Stolen? A Chinese knockoff?

My guess is I got schnookered by the seller and if I can't get anything from him, that's the price of a low ball price. Next time I'll buy my wrenches from Harbor Freight. Not Snap-on, but still a lifetime warranty... ;)


Just find a another snap-on dealer. I have a Matco toolbox and the slide for the top drawer broke and I called Matco to get a replacement and they told me I have to go through a dealer to get it. So then they gave me a number for a dealer in my area. But I know my snap-on guy will warranty it. If you send it to me I can get it warrantied for you. But you should be able to just have any snap-on guy replace it.

[More Power]

The pickup the engine is in sees a gravel road everyday, I farm in northwest Iowa, all of our gravel roads are pit run, redish sand and two mile treck to the nearst paved road. I know the outside of the 6.5 looks dirty as heck, but I live in the country and I use this truck (we'll I did) for daily farm chores. (Posted a picture of the pickup K2500 in my gallery, still haveing trouble posting pics here on this post), thank you all for the replys to this tread. I will have pics to post of my engine (bare block) as soon as I get my engine back from New York. Alot of stuff in the works to get my engine back, with a totally different block. Thats my update for now thanks again. Thanks for breaking down the date code for me, did you see the block casting number as well, wada you think on that?

Being a farm truck would explain the dust... The block casting number "looks" ok - it being a 506. Even the very newest engines being sold right now (like the new one Jetboater has) incorporate 506 blocks, but they are a little different than those produced earlier.

On the one hand, like you, I'd be upset with just a 2 year engine life, but on the other hand, it did come with a warranty that you were aware of and agreed to when you bought it. I'm driving a 2001 GMC that is now past the injector warranty period. The early Duramax injectors were a problem. I know it'll need new injectors at some future point. I know it will be on my dime, and I understood the terms of the warranty - which has now expired. It'll be about $4k. I won't complain - too much.... ;)

Jim

[JohnC]

Just find a another snap-on dealer.

It was a metaphor....

[1999GMC]

AAHHHHH. Okay.

[chevy1988]

Sometimes I'm just glad I'm living in Sweden... That kind of deal would not be possible here.

No car, carpart or assembled engin/tranny or other big part would be sold new or even used without a valid waranty. even scrappyards(used carparts dealers) would at least leave a 1-3 month waranty on parts.

If a dealer wants to go arround tis he has to clearly specify "AS IS"

Naturally this does not apply to private sellers if you dont get it specified on the receipt.

I might live in one of the "MostTaxedPeopleCountry" but for some laws I'm happy :)

[TurboDiverArt]

The pickup the engine is in sees a gravel road everyday, I farm in northwest Iowa, all of our gravel roads are pit run, redish sand and two mile treck to the nearst paved road. I know the outside of the 6.5 looks dirty as heck, but I live in the country and I use this truck (we'll I did) for daily farm chores. (Posted a picture of the pickup K2500 in my gallery, still haveing trouble posting pics here on this post), thank you all for the replys to this tread. I will have pics to post of my engine (bare block) as soon as I get my engine back from New York. Alot of stuff in the works to get my engine back, with a totally different block. Thats my update for now thanks again. Thanks for breaking down the date code for me, did you see the block casting number as well, wada you think on that?

Hey Klink,

Does International Diesel have the engine to look at it? Did they say they might do something for you? That would be more than you could ask from them for an out-of-warrantee claim. That is assuming what they sold you was a true AMG complete new engine and it wasn't some kind of blem. I certainly hope it turns out better than just owning a paperweight. I'd be pissed-off too!

Art.