Allison's wrecking in cold weather, or just a story ?

[ISEEDIT]

This form - http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=11147 is suggesting the allison's can't handle the cold ? :eek: As always, I go by the rule of, don't believe 80% of what you read. Any one here of tranny fluid gelling ?

[DmaxMaverick]

A lot of talk. Not much information. -35°C isn't all that cold, compared to many reports during winter. The tranny is rarely the complaint when there is a problem. If someone were a member at that site, they would be providing a service to them if they were sent here for real information.

My guess, after reading that thread, is primarily poor maintenance practice. Almost none of the posters seemed to be at all knowledgeable of the Allison trannies (bet most of them don't know there is an external filter on it), or the workings of the D/A, for that matter. If I were in an area and expected to see extended temps like that, bet there'd be no dino fluids in any of my vehicles. Their problem could stem from more than just the temp, and could be political in nature. Canada has some strange restrictions on waste products, like ATF. Dexron VI is supposed to address much of the US EPA and similar Canadian restrictions. Could be fluid related to some degree. But.....if it were in fact an issue, you can be sure we'd see it here on a regular basis, especially now. Readers and contributors here (TDP) will be better informed and diligent with their maintenance practices. Those who aren't, probably wouldn't admit when they do have problems due to an obvious oversight. On occasion, some do, but it's rare.

A little education can go a long way. "Almost enough" education can be disastrous.

(BTW....the torque converter does not "cycle" when cold to increase engine load - that was someone reaching into their pocket to sound technical)

[NutNbutGMC]

My first thoughts as well. It's a rumor gone wild. I have seen talk of this very (rumor made) topic on a tractor site. I'm not buying it.


Next someone will add in a wind chill factor to the tranny... :D :D

[DmaxMaverick]

Yeah. Just like all those puddles of melted aluminum on the roadside (Duramax heads). All the techs, engineers and metallurgists in the "other camps" are still scratching their heads over that one.

I hate to be the horn-blower (not really), but the D/A combo is historically the most successful powertrain combination in the history of light trucks, all things considered. Stuff happens and things go wrong, but the record speaks for itself.

[Mark Rinker]

Too funny. I found myself reading that thread with a Canadian accent going in my head.

Pretty funny, eh?

[Akstand]

I just had an issue in Fairbanks, AK, with my 2007 HD 2500 Sierra, temp was -30F overnite, & I could not get over 20 mph, trouble light came on etc.
A local guy said that GM had notified him in December that the Allison in his new model 2007 truck had been recalled for cold temp issues, & had been fixed by the dealer.

Has anyone heard of this recall?

I have not been notified yet.

[gophergunner]

well last week we had some nice cold days. -45*C and a bit lower than -50*C with some wind. i never noticed any issues with my transmission in my truck at the time, but now i do notice the cooling lines are leaking a fair bit. i don't know if i would blame it on that cold weather, because there was a lot of snow packed into my truck and it took a while for the fluid to soak in and be seen. so it could have been leaking for a while.

But this is the first i heard of cold weather causing the allison to crap out....

[Mark Rinker]

We get cold snaps here in MN, but if I was dealing for weeks and weeks of severe cold, each one of my trucks would get a heater for the transmission fluid in addition to the block heat.

www.arctic-fox.com (http://www.arctic-fox.com)

Lots of products that can be adapted for what you need...

[Akstand]

Update: I just came from GM: It was not the Allison, but GM has regionall recalled the air pipe connected to the Mass airflow sensor & redesigned it. My local dealer siad he gets 2-3 calls a day. It turns out a sensor is freezing up inside the pipe & GM will replace the pipe & sensor with a new design. The frozen sensor causes teh truck to go into "limp mode" which feels as though the tranny is having issues.

The limp mode thing has happened twice to me, I've put on grill cover & it has not occured since.

GM will repair according to "region" I was told. (I assume this means if you are in a cold environment)

Anyone else had this happen?

[NutNbutGMC]

Thank you for the info. I am now further informed to stick it to another rumor-mill that has surfaced on another forum...


Thank you very much...

[More Power]

Where has it gotten to -45? Don't think I'd even attempt running any motor vehicle in that... unless it was prepared for the arctic. ;)

Jim

[93GMCSierra]

It has gotten to -45 F in North Dakota and in Montana, granted I dont think it has in recent years, but if you look http://www.usatoday.com/weather/wcstates.htm
it shows Record temps.

[Gapper_ca]

well not that far north about 2 hrs from the border.. it was -42 C and wind chill put it at -54 C last week for a couple of days. no problems with my truck. .... from what i read in that artical it seems that most of those trucks are oil patch trucks... wonder how many are leased and a little lax on maintenance.... would not buy one of those trucks from the guys around here.... they finally started to buy the HD models... light duty were beinig destroyed... 4X4 all day foot to floor to get to lease sites and out in the mud, snow ... never shut off...

[JohnC]

The problem seems to be confined to the 6-speeds. If they are fluid related, did they change the fluid spec in '06? If not, why are the earlier trans's not affected?

I agree, I'd be reluctant to try to run anything that hasn't been prep'd for the arctic at those temperatures.

[ksss]

I was working in Big Sky last Winter and the temp on the pickup hit -43. I ran my 5500 and 3500 pulling equipment trailers in it from Idaho to Big Sky and back and never had a problem. I am from ND and that was as cold as I have seen it since leaving ND.

[zijmer]

hi, sorry to say this guys but, the rumor is true. up here north of 49th they are boiling the convertor out of them. the way i heard it was some engineer wanted the tranny to warm up quicker so they reduced the convertor charge/cooler flow and applied the lockup clutch. so when your scooting down the highway at 100km at -35c and a lot of times bucking a head wind first thing in the morning pulling your bobcat or what ever the cooler can freeze or "gel" and reduce cooler flow even more. you only have to smell that oil once ! you will never forget it. gm is suppost to have a fix but havent released it yet.[a recall of this nature would be very expensive]. as far as the cooler line problem goes, they all leak, even the gm replacement ones. it's best to go to a independent hose maker or maybe call up gm. they may have an outside source that handles the warranty for them.

ps. we are not the ones with the accenthttp://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[gophergunner]

so i should be expecting a recall/fix on my truck in the future....?:confused:

[DmaxMaverick]

I don't see this as a GM problem. -45°F is beyond the rating of traditional ATF. Most synthetic ATF is rated with a pour point down to -50°F or lower (Amsoil has a rated pour point down to -60°F, Mobil 1 is similar). GM will probably eat it, but I don't think they should. If you are operating a vehicle in temps this low, or even close to it, you should have taken precautions to prevent such issues. The ATF isn't going to be your only problem.

I'm not buying into the "converter locks to expedite warm up" thing. It is opposite from the previous approach, where the converter stays unlocked to expedite warm up. There is less fluid friction with the converter locked, so it would take longer to get up to temp.

I may be totally off base with this, but the bottom line is the same. If you are operating your vehicle(s) in climate this cold, prepare for it. Expect the worst, and be prepared.

I haven't taken the time to calculate the exchange, but -35°C is considerably less cold than -45°F. I've operated several vehicles at or below -35C°, but never close to -45°F.

[93GMCSierra]

I don't see this as a GM problem. -45°F is beyond the rating of traditional ATF. Most synthetic ATF is rated with a pour point down to -50°F or lower (Amsoil has a rated pour point down to -60°F, Mobil 1 is similar). GM will probably eat it, but I don't think they should. If you are operating a vehicle in temps this low, or even close to it, you should have taken precautions to prevent such issues. The ATF isn't going to be your only problem.

I'm not buying into the "converter locks to expedite warm up" thing. It is opposite from the previous approach, where the converter stays unlocked to expedite warm up. There is less fluid friction with the converter locked, so it would take longer to get up to temp.

I may be totally off base with this, but the bottom line is the same. If you are operating your vehicle(s) in climate this cold, prepare for it. Expect the worst, and be prepared.

I haven't taken the time to calculate the exchange, but -35°C is considerably less cold than -45°F. I've operated several vehicles at or below -35C°, but never close to -45°F.
you have never lived in North Dakota during January, and of course anything north of here.

[zijmer]

I don't see this as a GM problem. -45°F is beyond the rating of traditional ATF. Most synthetic ATF is rated with a pour point down to -50°F or lower (Amsoil has a rated pour point down to -60°F, Mobil 1 is similar). GM will probably eat it, but I don't think they should. If you are operating a vehicle in temps this low, or even close to it, you should have taken precautions to prevent such issues. The ATF isn't going to be your only problem.

I'm not buying into the "converter locks to expedite warm up" thing. It is opposite from the previous approach, where the converter stays unlocked to expedite warm up. There is less fluid friction with the converter locked, so it would take longer to get up to temp.

I may be totally off base with this, but the bottom line is the same. If you are operating your vehicle(s) in climate this cold, prepare for it. Expect the worst, and be prepared.

I haven't taken the time to calculate the exchange, but -35°C is considerably less cold than -45°F. I've operated several vehicles at or below -35C°, but never close to -45°F.
nobody knows at the moment what the "fix" is going to entail, but it is very serious for the people stuck with no wheels. to me it smells like a upgraded emmissions program that may work in california but not here. by the way -40f is the same as -40c

[zijmer]

so i should be expecting a recall/fix on my truck in the future....?:confused:
don't know, there has been some concerns of late model 06 but can't comfirm. most of the breakdowns seem to be in edmonton area and north where there was a lot of highway travel involved. what you can do is pull the dip stick, if the oil still looks good your alright[brite red]. if it looks grey and smells terible you may have issues to deal with. as far as a recall goes, don't hold your breath, at least for now.

[93GMCSierra]

These are being repaired under warranty? I would hope they are.

[gophergunner]

I just had my trans. fluid replaced about 4 or 5000 km's ago and they never warned me of any trouble. Prior to that the fluid was nice and red, and to this day it still is and smells like trans. fluid.

Just trying to prevent any major damage to my truck, as a transmission like that cannot be cheap to fix/replace. But as for now my only problem is leaky lines I think.

[zijmer]

good news for 07 duramax owners,gm has issued a recall for the allison convertor burn up problem. if you qualify your invitation is in the mail.for most it should be a simple resetting of the computer. for the ones that got caught in the cold spell and were damaged well it will be repaired and reflashed one a time. good luck to you all.

[Destroyer]

I was moving from Bakersfield California to Wasilla Alaska. We prepared for the trip but in Watson Lake I got up and warmed up my 07 2500 HD LBZ crew cab . Had leaking lines anyways which I check the level anyways once it warmed up well it was a lot more than warm when I pulled the dipstick. It was -50c so -58F or so at the time. I was just sick about it, but Allison is stepping up to the plate on this mess. I will never buy another Chevy unless it has an Allison in it. It is just a damn shame that this happened to such a fine piece of equipment like that. I have heard after the fact that putting it in neutral will solve this till you can have it reprogramed. Being that I was on the Alcan pulling my 5th wheel I could not let it sit in Neutral on the ice with just the parking brake set. My hats off to Allison they are replacing ALL THE BROKEN TRANSMISSIONS FOR FREE.

[zijmer]

I was moving from Bakersfield California to Wasilla Alaska. We prepared for the trip but in Watson Lake I got up and warmed up my 07 2500 HD LBZ crew cab . Had leaking lines anyways which I check the level anyways once it warmed up well it was a lot more than warm when I pulled the dipstick. It was -50c so -58F or so at the time. I was just sick about it, but Allison is stepping up to the plate on this mess. I will never buy another Chevy unless it has an Allison in it. It is just a damn shame that this happened to such a fine piece of equipment like that. I have heard after the fact that putting it in neutral will solve this till you can have it reprogramed. Being that I was on the Alcan pulling my 5th wheel I could not let it sit in Neutral on the ice with just the parking brake set. My hats off to Allison they are replacing ALL THE BROKEN TRANSMISSIONS FOR FREE.
good to hear your being looked after. who mentioned the neutral warm-up?

[Ramster21]

Next week they are supposed to be coming to Fairbanks.
Yes it's true tranny are taking dumps in large numbers. Mine is on the way for a getting replaced. No one in Fairbanks is capable of rebuilding the Allison tranmission. So dealership is installing new ones. Yes the fluid is gelling in the cooler. Easy fix would be installed a cooler with a larger cooler lines, and coils. But that's my answer, and switch to AMSOIL ATF.

[Ramster21]

Allison are falling apart and dealerships are looking for any excuse to screw it's customers. My transmission is cooked, thanks to -40 weather here in Fairbanks, AK. The cold snap of -40 for a week has taken it's toll on my truck. They are blaming me, used to have a Edge on my truck last summer, removed it, in September, but left the EGT sensor inplace was going to install EGT guage. But because the EGT sensor was still there, they claimed I have it currently chipped, the the chip was not the cause of my transmission problems. All my problems started during the cold weather snap.
If your truck in under warranty, don't do any mod's till warranty is over, GM is really screwing people anyway they can:mad:

[ISEEDIT]

Had my '06 in at the dealer for service, service manager mentioned a software patch for tranmission oil gelling problem. Tried updateing, but their link went bad to GM - he said next time I bring it in, he'll get it taken care of. Don't know what exactly what it all entails, but when I find out, I'll post what info I learn.

[Destroyer]

good to hear your being looked after. who mentioned the neutral warm-up?

I think Chevy toild me that sry it took so long

[Idle_Chatter]

nobody knows at the moment what the "fix" is going to entail, but it is very serious for the people stuck with no wheels. to me it smells like a upgraded emmissions program that may work in california but not here. by the way -40f is the same as -40c

Fahrenheit and Celsius are the same at -40. -45 F is -43 C and -35 C is -31 F, FYI