View Full Version : Blown head gasket after 7k
Hi all: another problem with the beast. After all my post here i go again. looks like it blew a head gasket. Wondering if 14 lbs of boost was the problem are, another screw up by the mechanic. since he just put new heads, a piston, from the cracked precup that started leaking into one cylinder, Just wondering if anyone ever had. a head gasket blow in less than 7k. Seems to stay together until i put her in a pull. everything looks normal low egts,not too much smoke and very little oil consumption, a quart every 2k or so. Open for any suggestion, burn it, sell it, or give the mechanic another chance to screw it up again.
Thanks fir your support and suggestions:(
TOO MUCH BOOST or Dum luck.
Just got her back together a couple of weeks ago after a long ordel with the mechanic. new heads, a new piston, . new turbo, injections, running about 14psi boost. What you think to much boost got the gasket. Or a bad job of putting her back together. After his screw up with the piston being the wrong one, and having to pull her down again and put the right piston in, I think he might have reused the head bolts after being torqued down then pulll apart. What you guys and girls. Think about all this _____stuff.
john8662
01-20-2008, 22:49
I vote for both!
I do believe that the mechanic that worked on the engine previously did a poor job of doing so, and probably didn't take the time to properly clean things up and possibly use the correct parts.
14psi boost is too much for a non-intercooled 6.5.
J
BTW, please don't duplicate post in other forum categories ;)
I think that the mechanic probably had a lot to do with the cause of the failure.
14 PSI is too much but unless you were running the crap out of it and doing alot of 14 PSI running I really dont think that it would fail that quick.
There are many possibilities, head not flat, bolts that were reused, possibly even a gasket reused.
Without seeing the engine it's hard to say what happened for sure.
The only thing to do is rip it apart and do a careful post mortem, checking everything as you go.
Good luck and sorry to hear of the mess.
Robyn
Well here i go again the mechanic sent the head, in the previous post i,ve discussed all the problems, But are there really bad new heads. That's what the mech. said. leaking into the combustion chamber somewhere. i guess, first he said the water was from a bad radi. then a timing cover leak, but when i called today, the heads were pickup by the supplier for exchange. Dum luck or I think the mech pulled a slick one and used reman heads instead of new ones that i paid for. Thanks just another update on the It's Alive Beast
Thanks.:mad:
Sounds like the mechanic is a shlickmiester.
I have never seen a new head leak.
What is he charging you for the heads.
There are a lot of "Remans" out there being sold.
I personally would not touch a reman head for one of these engines on a dying bet,
keep us posted
Robyn
Cowracer
01-23-2008, 13:40
I had new heads installed on my rebuild.
A small casting flaw caused coolant to leak into the intake tract, and get into the Combustion chamber. This hydraulic-ed the piston and bent a rod.
http://gatewaydata.com/truck/Hole1.JPG
http://gatewaydata.com/truck/Hole2.JPG
these were brand spanking new heads. It was a booger-bear to find, and it ultimatly requrired replacement of my new (less than 150 mile) engine. The Diesel Depot more than made good on it, as they supplied a new engine, and paid to have it installed.
Tim
Well talked to the mech. he said it was leaking water from precups and that i needed to turn the pump down. Whats the real deal. No high egts 550 to 600 max under load post turbo so 950 worst case. Will turning the pump up kill my heads or. Did i get some bad heads. I,ve got 14 max boost i run about 10 to 12 sustained 14 briefly. never gets over 550 egt post turbo, usually 350 to 450. john said that unless i put a new ho water pump it would do it stock as a grocery getter. So where to i go now. new heads in less than 6k.The mech. said I had 4 of the eight precups leaking coolant what. There no coolant behind the precup. Unless theres a crack in the exhaust valve seat through the water jacket right. Need some help to get my truck back to a dependable level. How can i get a base line for my manual injection pump. Just start turning it back until what.....?
Very unusual to see new heads with that sort of flaw. Was good though that the seller made good on it though.
Castings can have issues for sure.
Them only way to be absolutely certain on a head is to high pressure test them while submerged.
A local shop has special plates that will bolt onto most popular heads and then they cover the water passages and pump the head up to 160 PSI while the head is in hot water.
That almost never fails to find leaks.
I had a 6.2 head that had a slight seep and we found it right quick once the air was put to it. Was a little pinhole like the one you showed but it was in an exhaust passage and the coolant would just go away and not hurt anything but still it was going away and driving us nuts.
Robyn
DmaxMaverick
01-23-2008, 19:40
Your mechanic is full of manure (G rated term). I'd tell him just that if I were there. Coolant leaking into the precups means a serious crack, defective casting or very poorly assembled (my guess, like maybe reused head bolts, etc). 14 PSI is too much, but I doubt it caused the problem you are seeing unless you really flogged it (heavy towing over long grades or repeated drag racing).
If you are able to maintain EGT's below 1000°, you are not near overfueling. Even with your max boost, it wouldn't cause your problem that quick for a daily driver.
redbird2
01-24-2008, 02:48
Did he check the block surface I have seen the block erode from the cooling passage to the fire ring causing coolant into the combustion chamber have him check it only take couple minutes.
Leaking from the pre-cups? Are they being pressure tested off the vehicle?
Turnin the fuel up, t-boost, or need for cooling upgrade. Bad mech. Heads or Bad Luck. Any ideas. I really just would like to have a dependable, run as strong as i can and stay together. How do i accomplish this without going to the poor house.
Stacker:p
I've jumped around with this and I'm sorry. But the mech said that turnin the pump up got the heads. any imput. I think we should address the water pump and duel themos. He said it wasn't necessary>> Go figure trying to put the blame on me. Only been 6k since it was in there for a head problem, so would you think it's my doing or his. SOS:(
Hay another question since it looks like another set of heads. I'll make him install the cooling upgrades. But should i have him put some 10 over gaskets to lower the cr too? i'm turning the boost back to 10 to 12max. should i turn the pump down a little. Since i turned it up not knowing if the previous owner had turned it up or not. Not much smoke, and 600 max egts post. digging for straws, pulling my hair out and going to the poor house. Wish i had done the work myself.
ccatlett1984
01-24-2008, 22:37
Having the thermocouple pre-turbo would be more accurate, but in this case i dont think its running too hot.
12psi i fine, thats what the banks kit peaks at. you should be able to set the fuel by the amount of black smoke when the engine is loaded (accelerating going up a big hill, or pulling a trailer) should see a hint of smoke no solid clouds.
be sure the tard uses new head bolts.
Hello again::eek:Looks like the mech is going to make the head job good. Said he sent the heads back and couldn't find any problems, but he said he thinks the supplier is pulling a fast one. So he marked the heads to see if they send the same one back, said he going to put in a labor claim. I ordered the pump and crossover cooling upgrades, a new radiator, had the fan and clutch. Whats a safe boost level, safe turn up on the pump and should i leave the timing stock. I was told that on mips that it should stay stock and that you can over fuel and boost by having the timing to advanced. Would like to get the most out of her with the least problems. I have a long pull when leaving south fl. for the panhandle. and it seems ever time i pull hard coming back i blow something up. usually only pulling about 6k. Thanks guys and gals.
Your mechanic is full of manure (G rated term). I'd tell him just that if I were there. Coolant leaking into the precups means a serious crack, defective casting or very poorly assembled (my guess, like maybe reused head bolts, etc). 14 PSI is too much, but I doubt it caused the problem you are seeing unless you really flogged it (heavy towing over long grades or repeated drag racing).
If you are able to maintain EGT's below 1000°, you are not near overfueling. Even with your max boost, it wouldn't cause your problem that quick for a daily driver.
Well it looks like the mech. going to make the head job good. I'm ordering the cooling upgrades probably should have done them at the same time of the head job. Going to turn timing back to stock and turn boost down to 12max 10 sustained. what you think.
a5150nut
01-29-2008, 22:21
Hard, long pulling? Got gages ? Pyro?
Colorado Kid
01-30-2008, 09:30
Well, according to his signature he's got "93 ck 3500 247k new paint,poppy red airaid, 4in exh,quages, 1/6 turned up ip, little timing. 35k on block, new heads, injectors, turbo, turbo master, red neck caddy, continental package"
With that combination I'd expect high intake manifold temps (from the high boost levels reported in his other posts, and no mention of an intercooler) to result in high cylinder temps. On the mechanical system there's no way to pull fuel because of high manifold temps (as the ECM does on the later 6.5s), so you can overheat the cumbustion chambers without super high EGTs.
Early timing and extra boost both raise peak cylinder pressure without raising EGTs, which can lift the heads, especially if somebody tried to re-use the head bolts.
Since I live at higher elevation, where there's less air going in to start with I tend to think stock timing is too late, but perhaps at sea level you should be staying at or close to stock timing. If you keep the fuel levels down to where you're below 750* post turbo with stock timing (and 10-12 PSI boost), with adeqaute cooling it should be very reliable and still have better than stock power. Lower compression and intercooling would let you safely make more power.
Well heres the latest news on the beast. The mech. called and said the new heads( the one he sent back and they sent them back tested good) are cracked and he's p----ed at the supplier trying to get his money for the labor. Its like how many times can you pull the heads of these beast without destroying the blocks threads. He'd be better off after all this to just put a long block in give me my truck back and eat the loss. What do you fans thank. I paid 3700.oo for the head job. 605.oo for a radiator install, 20.oo for a pressure check. plus i've been down for combined about 6 weeks.
Thanks and i know wah wah.:eek:
BamaChief600
02-07-2008, 20:33
Well I know it stinks for him but it was his repair job and he should eat the cost or cut you a deal. Its good to see another 3500 on the boards.
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=29327
Well I know it stinks for him but it was his repair job and he should eat the cost or cut you a deal. Its good to see another 3500 on the boards.
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=29327
Just wondering now how much damage to the block threads and bottom end.
I think he needs to stand behind the whole engine for a while after all this. Whats your take. I really like the truck. spent $$$ to pimp it out alittle. I think he put a cracked head on it. Two weeks prior to this i took it back with a loss of water (quart ever couple days) and he wrote that off as radiator no signs of water , but what the h---i figured a little stop leak would do for a few days till pay day since it never overheated 185 to 200 towing hard. So were off to north fl. ran great going, but the next morning in 18 degrees, when it started up it sound like it might have been partially hydro locked. What really sucks is i am a wrench gm. long time ago old school, that's why i bought the old girl manual everything. I just didn't have the time. But i could have rebuilt the whole truck in seven weeks combined down time. I need the truck for business every once in a while to pull my 5er or a small enclosed trailor. How hard do most 6.5 people really run there trucks. I don't abused them, If there pulling lettem pull. If not grab a gear. Never need to most the time set the cruise at 65 or 70 and go.:mad:
oilburnertoo
02-10-2008, 08:39
Did he check the block surface I have seen the block erode from the cooling passage to the fire ring causing coolant into the combustion chamber have him check it only take couple minutes.
Very common problem esp at the pass front passage. seen it lots of times. If so its time to deck the block and use the thicker head gaskets
Going to turn timing back to stock and turn boost down to 12max 10 sustained. what you think.
That boost seems a bit high. I have a Peninsular/AMG 6.5LTD with 18:1 compression, high-pop pump, and non-wastegated turbo, shoving 16K lbs. of motorhome around - even with this past weekend's 20 mph headwind, boost ran around 5 psi @60 mph. Max when I floor it is 15 psi. I wonder why you carry that much boost cruising in a pickemup...you shouldn't need to push that much air into the engine just cruising.
Well Got her back today after putting all the cooling upgrades w/radiator and all the hoses, Mech said one of the new heads was cracked in the oil valley under the valve cover, anyone ever heard of that? He backed the timing up and i turned down the boost to 11psi max pulling a 5000lb trailor 70mph @ 2250 rpms she run along at 9to10psi of boost. Doesn't seem to have quite as much umph but runs real cool 160 or less never saw the gauge above 185 even pulling this morning i drove about 70 miles. On the way back with out the trailor she cruises real well at 70 to 75. by the way the egts stay at no more than 600 pulling and 400 empty. Cost me another 1100.00 for the radiator and the labor for the cooling upgrades. Should have been free but you'll know the problems this has been. I got a noise i don't like but sounds a little heavy hope it's just paranolia and not the bottom end. Everyone says there tougher than that, Mech said there was very little water in oil not milkie just starting to thicken up. Will See. Thanks for the support.
:p
More Power
02-19-2008, 23:15
Regarding boost pressure.... I've spoken to a few people who are running an 18:1 engine equipped with Pen's turbo. Brian Pederson in Bellingham, WA has been running his 1994 Suburban since the spring of 2002 with up to 18-20 psi boost pressure - no problems the last we spoke (6 months or so ago). Dan Martin from Newville, PA has been running his 6.5 for quite some time now (some years) with a boost pressure of up to as high as 23 psi without a head or head gasket problem. And, Schoolcraft runs his 6.5 with 20+ psi (his own aftermarket turbo).
So, what's too much boost? It depends... on what turbocharger you're using and whether you have an intercooler. It can also depend on how high the EGT's get, and I suppose it depends to some degree on the driver. The 6.5's mentioned here are or have been used to tow. :)
Jim
:mad:Now what do i do . Got the truck out yesterday and today it broke the crank in half> I didn't sound right when i pick it up but i ran it exactly 113 miles. I think all the water thrashed the mains and now the mech it's standing behind the bottom end since he said that it could start using oil or stress the bottom end with the new heads. Now what to do. 4500.00 dollars in a broken engine.Everythings new but the short block. Got me kicking rocks and counting pennies. Wife bought me a new dodge gasser today to keep me from loosing my mind over this, now she gets my toyota tacoma,and i''l have to wait on the 6.5 till diesel is a dollar and i have a lot of time to fix it. Any good short blocks around.
BamaChief600
02-21-2008, 15:53
:eek: I would be madder than a wet hornet!!! Somewhere the mechanic has to stand behind the build. IF the heads came from him and it was built by him then he would hear from my attorney. It just sux that you are having this kind of luck with the rig......
93GMCSierra
02-21-2008, 19:10
I hear you about that...... I replaced my head gaskets and broke my crank on my drive home, granted about 400 miles.
Don't think i'm going to get any relief from the mech. Maybe a little on the labor, but looks like at least a new short block is in order. any one know of a good deal. Don't want any junk just don't like paying for a name.
Thanks Stacker.
BTW Looks like someone else likes big red Trucks. I wish mine would just stay together wish i done the work myself now.
At least the new 1500 ram my wife bought has a life time drive train warranty. She got tired of me crying on here about my 6.5 but I'm still not retiring her just not in such a bind to get her done.:eek:
micky_blue
02-22-2008, 10:06
After this entire ordeal, and I realize you have spent a small fortune on that pile, I would really consider Peninsular. I know you pay out the nose for them, but you know you are getting the best and they are stellar if there are warranty issues. The extra cash can be worth it because of the piece of mind you get.
edit - if you want to do the rebuild yourself, i would get in touch with John Kennedy
micky
and i would sue that mechanic if he wasn't a very close friend
So why would we sue the mechanic over this? Sounds to me like he performed the work he was originally hired to do & got a bad part (head). When it hydrolocked did you give him the option of towing it back to his shop or did you force it to start so you could drive it home with a hairline crack in the crank? I think his biggest mistake was taking the job in the first place on a truck that age with that many miles on it if he knew he would be responsible for paying to upgrade the cooling system & standing behind the entire engine just because he put heads on it. There are risks involved putting that much money into high mileage vehicles & i see no reason why the mechanic should assume all the risk. He did not design, build or sell the truck to you, he had no idea what shape the rest of the engine was in. What would any body say if they pulled into a shop & said they had a coolant leak & the shop quoted 10,000 dollars for a new engine? What would you say if they quoted 4,000 dollars to pull the engine & tear it down for an inspection before they would put new heads on it? If you are not comfortable with any risk then pay the 45,000 dollars for a new truck everytime the old one goes out of warranty, otherwise find a mechanic you trust & stick with him . Let the assault begin.
Your right Tag. But You must be a wrench. I'm and ex wrench and anytime i pull down a wet motor(water in oil) I always inspect bearings. At least a couple. And with over 200 gallons of water run through this engine. Whose fought is it? The supplier for suppling a possible bad head or the mech for reusing head bolts, putting in the wrong piston, over advancing the mech. timing. Yes it is a high mile truck supposed to only have 50k or so on block it showed more wear than that. What originally happened was i lost a belt on the turn pike got a little hot before i could get off the road, but i drove it 3k before the turbo went out. Then new turbo, turned up the boost and the first pull she blew the original heads. The all the other horror storys began. I feel for the mech but thats gottan work two ways, How long before you tell your customer (if you want to keep him) that he's feeding a dying horse. He didn't eat the cooling upgrades cost 600.00 labor to put in a radiator and water pump. He charged me 800.00 for putting in the wrong piston. i'm going to put in a jasper short block, any suggestions, I think he should help with the labor on the parts change and install or send all the part back since they probably cause the problem to begin with. :mad:
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