Problems after Washing

[Corry]

How ya going guys, I might be a bit out of my league here, but we'll see how I go. This is my first post so I guess I gotta say Hi. Got put onto here by someone in the Toyota Club in Australia.
I live in Gladstone, Central Queensland, on the East coast of Australia, not far from the top when you look at a map.
I've got a 6.5TD in a Toyota 80 Series Cruiser. I think overseas they're known as HZJ80's. I've got a T700R hydraulic auto behind it, and it's life is mainly for offroad competition and playing.
The conversion was done by a professional outlet, and has been running fine since I got the vehicle 5 months ago. I've driven it alot, and haven't had any problems.
Two days ago, was out driving and did many creek crossing (deep) and everything went fine, then after about 1.5 hours of normal track driving, the engine stopped. Like it run out of fuel (but didn't).
We ended up towing it home, and the next day, went down to the shed, turned it over, and after a while, it fired up. Was like it run out of fuel. I left it idling for a while (to charge the battery) and all was good.
Decided to give it a bath, washed it, and then sprayed a heap of degreaser around the engine bay and hosed it off.
Went to fire it up and move it, had a horrible sound coming out of it that I can't explain. It was a deep 'ruff, ruff, ruff"... anyway, sounded terrible.
There isn't any fuel leaks, oil leaks or anything. The auto oil looks good, the engine oil looks good. I revved it to full revs, and the engine cut out and shut down. Did this a couple of times to try and work it out, and it would start straight away again.
Not sure where to go from here, these engines are pretty rare over here and we have no-one local that looks at diesels period, let alone 6.5TD's.
Anything anyone can help me with would be good, not sure where to start.
Have searched, but with no luck. If there is something I have missed that can help, let me know. There isn't anywhere to plug a puter in for fault codes or anything like that, I think the motor is a '95 vintage, and what I was told when I bought it was that it was a new motor, and it has only done 40k klm (25000 Mile).

TIA
Cheers
Corry

[bigeasy]

I would take a fuel sample as close to the motor as possible.
Maybe one from the tank.

[DmaxMaverick]

Welcome to the Forums!

Is this engine mechanical or electronic? Turbo, or N/A? Did you have any smoke at the time? If so, how much and what color?

If electronic (OEM 1995 model), you could have a connector or sensor that got too wet. The result would not be unlike a gasser with a wet distributor. It will also have a PCM (engine computer), and will store malfunction codes when they come up. It should have an ALDL (diagnostic) port somewhere, which is necessary to properly time the injection pump. It will also have an electric fuel pump (and associated wiring), which is sensitive to moisture. The crank position sensor is low at the front of the engine, and if the connector got soaked, it could cause the output signal to get skewed enough to throw the timing around, causing a bunch of running problems.

If it's mechanical, it could have either a mechanical or electric fuel pump (or both). There's not a lot that water can effect, electrically, other than a fuel pump or fuel shutoff solenoid circuit. The HPCA circuit (cold timing advance) could be effected, but should only effect how the engine runs (more rattle, higher RPM), and not cause a shutdown.

Other than that, you'll have to check out the wiring in general.

Water crossing does more than just get things wet. Rapid temp changes can cause issues with the fuel system. For example, if the fuel tank is 1/2 tank or less (or the level more/less, depending on your tank setup), getting it wet will cause a near instantaneous condensation of the fuel, and if you don't have the tank properly vented, it can cause a significant pressure drop and starve the fuel system. This doesn't sound like your problem, because you had the same issue when you washed the engine. I'd suspect something electrical got wet, and didn't like it. An EFI system will be much more sensitive to water than mechanical.

At the same time, it sure wouldn't hurt to take a fuel sample and have it tested for water, or set it out for a few hours to see what settles out. I don't think fuel contamination is your problem, because the problem wouldn't turn on/off according to what you are doing to the outside of the engine.

Another possibility is the intake air tract. If you have a significant leak, it could be sucking in water. This can be very bad and lead to hydrolock, and a lot of broken internals. If the air filter got soaked, it would starve the engine of O2, but there should a lot of smoke with it.

Good luck, and please get back to us with more details.

[Corry]

Holy wow, aren't you guys helpful.

OK, the engine is fully mechanical as is the auto. The only electric bit on it is the lock up in the torque converter, but it is still a manual switch on the dash. I wanted it all this way to eliminate any computers or electrical problems with off road Comps.
I went down to the shed this arvo and removed the air cleaner, it has a bastardised K&N system on it, and the filter didn't look to flash. Against all odds, I fired it up with the air cleaner off (in the shed so pretty clean environment) to see if there was a difference. Nothing.
I ended up cracking the injector on the drivers side (left - looking at the front of the engine) front and fired it up again. Got fuel coming out of it, so closed it all up again.
I've checked the oil, no sign of filings on the dipstick.
Started the engine again and all seems well. Not sure what has happened here, I'd love to find out what caused the engine to stop while out in the bush, and then why it fired up again after making horrid noised for an afternoon.
I should mention that it sat all day in the sun today without being touched, and still made the noise when I fired it up this arvo. So everything had a chance to dry out.
I don't think it was air cleaner related, as it is all back on now same as before and running fine.
Guess this is one of those things that could happen again, or could not.

Cheers
Corry

PS. Can anyone run me through how to bleed the system with the 6.5's. I've never had a problem with the 1HZ in my other 80, but not sure with this one.
So many questions.

[DmaxMaverick]

Does this engine have EGR? Does it have the EGR equipment, with it disabled? Other than an accessory causing this noise, the EGR could be mechanically failing or getting triggered when it shouldn't (wet connector, again). If it has EGR, there will be a "vacuum actuator pod" inside the intake plenum. It could also have an EPR (valve in the exhaust pipe at the manifold flange) causing a problem.

I suggest removing the belt(s) to eliminate an accessory causing this. If you remove the belt(s) and the noise remains, go back to the connectors and wiring. Even though your engine is mechanical, it still has key electrical inputs and senders. The FSO solenoid (connector at the front of the injection pump, and powered by the ign switch) could be loosing current when wet. This could cause a "shutoff" or intermittent or poor running. Another possibility is the HPCA (Housing Pressure Cold Advance) circuit. It is triggered by an engine temp sender input, and could be effected in a couple ways. First, if the wiring/connectors were exposed to water, I could only guess what would happen, depending on how it is wired. Second, the sender (or harness) could be effected by water, sending the wrong input to the HPCA, triggering at the wrong time. If the HPCA power supply has been wired in a different way, all bets are off and you'll have to chase it down. The sender could be in a location that may see wild temp swings when the engine gets soaked. There are a lot of possibilities how water can cause running conditions, but only a few systems/circuits to look at. You need to eliminate each, one at a time.

Also, check your fuel pressure, and the condition of your mechanical fuel pump. If it is leaking any fuel, it's failed. It should have positive pressure under any running condition.

Please describe the noise again. When it starts, stops, and what else is happening at the time. Is there a change in exhaust note or smoke? Where does it sound like it's happening? Is it worse (louder or more pronounced) with the intake ducting open?

All that said, I think you need to take a close look at the fuel supply. The DB pumps will draw fuel even with a failed lift pump. They will also cause running issues when the supply is under suction (failed lift pump), HPCA timing changes and outgassing (fuel system makes its own air), and intermittent running quality. The mechanical fuel pump is open to atmosphere on the dry side. It has a weep hole at the bottom (vents the pump to atmosphere). If there is fuel present here, the pump has failed. If the hole is blocked, it won't pump consistently.

[Corry]

It doesn't have EGR (that I know of), everything is mechanical with no wires except those required.
I changed a fuel hose today, and had the same problem, so I am sure I can put it down to air in the fuel.
Can someone tell me what the best way is to bleed the system of air as I need to change more lines tomorrow.
All I did today was keep cranking it over and it bought the fuel back up, run rough for a while and then came good.
Any help with bleeding would be appreciated.

Cheers
Corry