Shuts off while driving - Stalling [Archive]

DeezlStinson

12-26-2004, 13:30

Howdy all,

Yeah....Mine has been doing this for last couple of weeks. Today it finally would not start at all. (after I get it towed home) I'm going to do a little electrical trouble shooting. I have a PMD to install but I want to be sure that's what the problem is. I got DTC-13 and DTC-36 (1994 model)

I still think it's a 12v supply problem...possibly the ignition switch or associated wiring. If not I'll replace the PMD. I'll also probably have a look at the transistors in the PMD..I have a hard time believing that 2 PNP/NPN switching transistors and a few associated parts should cost upwards of $300 or more. We are really getting ripped off on thse things.(especially since they are so poorly designed!)

More to come!

Cheers (?)

Rick

[ 12-27-2004, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: DeezlStinson ]

Chad Mac

12-29-2004, 11:46

DeezlStinson

12-29-2004, 13:52

I have had wiring problems, lift pump and PMD so far. I've never had the OPS fail (Optical sensor?) Nor have I had a problem with the ignition switch. Those are probably next huh?

This time it was the PMD. I think this is going to be it for me. I'll either go to a mechanical injection pump or I'll get rid of this thing and get a New pickup!

Nearly 11 years and 138000 miles is long enough to keep any vehicle!

Of course this is the place where people cry about their problems a lot!

I wonder how many 94-99 GM diesels had NO problems by comparison? The people with no problems just drove them until they got tired and got something else.

Cheers everybody!

Rick

Originally posted by Chad Mac:
I feel like a professional on this subject because I have fixed stalling problems on my truck on 4 seperate occasions.

The first time was the ignition harness that was mentioned earlier. When mine went out it would stall while driving and no dash lights would come on. I could work the key switch back and forth til the dash lights came on and it would start right up. New ignition harness and problem solved.

The second time was the infamous PMD/FSD. When mine went out it would stall while driving and sometimes start right back up, sometimes I would have to crank on it for a while. New PMD/FSD and problem solved.

The third time was the also infamous OPS. It would only stall shortly after restart when the truck had been driven and shut down for a short time period and would require some cranking to get it going again. New OPS and problem solved.

The fourth time was the in-line fuel lift pump that assists the injection pump. Symptoms were serious hiccups under acceleration and stalling after startup with lots of cranking to get it going again. My lift pump sounded like it was working fine (humming when the key was turned forward and when the truck was running) but all it was doing was making noise and not pumping any fuel. New fuel lift pump and problem solved.

I don't know how to explain it but I love the truck. My next truck will be a 6.5 also. I guess because I know the engine so well that I feel like I can diagnose and fix almost anything on it now. Good luck with your problem!

rjschoolcraft

12-29-2004, 14:08

My uncle has a 96 with 5-speed that has not given the first problem. It has somewhere near 70,000 miles and is completely bone stock. He has towed a travel trailer with it to NASCAR races and uses it around the farm. He's the reason I bought a 6.5 in the first place.

DeezlStinson

12-30-2004, 09:00

Hi Ron,

We have to remember that this is the place where mostly people with problems came for help. There are probably thousands of people who had no problems at all. The average person keeps a vehicle 3-4 years, 60,000-80,000 miles and either trades it in and/or sells it and gets another one.

It's "us people" who choose to keep them to well over 100000 miles (11yrs in my case) to squeeze every last penny out of them (because it cost much to begin with!)

We are lucky to have a dedicated group of people like Jim, Lee and others who pulled us all together so we wouldn't be completely dependant on the dealers.

Happy New Year to you all!

Regards,

Rick

Originally posted by ronniejoe:
My uncle has a 96 with 5-speed that has not given the first problem. It has somewhere near 70,000 miles and is completely bone stock. He has towed a travel trailer with it to NASCAR races and uses it around the farm. He's the reason I bought a 6.5 in the first place.

Eddys

01-03-2005, 11:48

I will be bringing it in this week to the dealer. I'm pretty sure it's the same thing as last time THE PMD/FSD it should still be covered under the extended warranty. This morning it did it again just shut itself off on the highway on way to work I restarted it on the fly and kept on driving. I'll keep you guys posted on the turnout from the dealer.

panchosteam

01-03-2005, 18:52

Hi guys,about this PMD problems,how about making some kind of air entrance from the front of the truck, and maybe with some kind of pipe or something create the entrance for the air and direct it right on the PMD,or maybe even make a litle breather from top of the hood, so cooling air can help on this heating problem. May be it will help who knows it is only an idea, i don't have one of this PMD'S on mine, went mechanical
hope this helps.

1984 GMC 3/4 TON PICK UP NOW WITH 6.5 TD AND HEATH'S TURBO MASTER

9

BUZZ

01-04-2005, 11:54

Rick,
The DTC 13 is related to fuel shut down solenoid.
The deep well socket looking thing on top of IP, in case you did not know.
I am having shut down issues and today no start, first crank of the day. I plugged up a spare, used PMD and still no start. Well this is new. Also noticed a click click click when cranking but no run. This sounded lots like a loose spark plug wire on a gasser, you know, spark sound. Well I played around with wire and plugs still nothing. It finally started to run and shut back down. I then unplugged the fuel shut down sol., ran a straight 12 v to the shut down sol. and started right up. I then checked for 12 v at the now disconnected plug, and I read 12v. So I am now thinking not PMD but the 12 v feed going to this solenoid. Possible 12v but low current from ignition switch or bad grounds. OR maybe sol had trash or stuck and straight 12 v loosened things up a bit. Any way I plugged everything back up factory style and has run with out hitch today. Wonder if the click sound I heard was the fuel shut down sol opening and closing while cranking.
I have cold start issues and will run a straight 12v to the sol tomorrow and see if cold starts are changed.
I get paid by the word.
Thanks
Buzz

DeezlStinson

01-05-2005, 22:46

Hi Buzz,

Yes ...for a 94/95, DTC 13 is the shutdown solenoid. I thought it strange that I would get 36 and 13 but I don't know when they set since it always re-started each time.

By by the way DTC 35/36 are directly related to the PMD and the main fuel solenoid (like you said the shut down solenoid is different)

The shut down solenoid gets power from the ignition switch and the ground connection for it comes directly from the computer. There's a few plugs between so any loose/poor connection in either the ground or power (in those plugs) will cause a DTC13 when the key is on. (it sounds like your problem might be an ignition switch)

I had this problem with the 15 pin plug that caused this too several years ago.

I did replace my PMD last week and the thing starts and runs fine now.

I still have a problem with the PMD failures. I still think it's a mechanical failure possibly internal in the PMD. Those Motorola transistors just don't seem to get hot enough to fail due to heat. Even though they must be derated about 1.5 watts per degree above 25C They're still rated at 250w and 200 degrees C... I haven't measured the output current to the fuel solenoid but I don't think it draws much more than about 10A or so and that's pulse width modulated meaning that the duty cycle is not continuous. Has anyone actually measured the voltage/current output of the FSD?(You'd need a scope and a little test circuit to do it of course!)

I suppose there's other electronic devices in the PMD but I think it's simply a couple of switching transistors and a few other passive parts. Solenoid driver circuits are actually very simple.... Makes it about $30 in parts! MAN are we getting ripped off!.... Never mind that the PMD is possibly incorrectly/poorly designed too!

Anyway so far mine is running as good as ever so I either fixed it by cleaning up the plugs, replacing the PMD or reconnecting the system ground. (I also did a complete battery connection cleanup)

Hope yours goes as well!

regards,

Rick

Originally posted by BUZZ:
Rick,
The DTC 13 is related to fuel shut down solenoid.
The deep well socket looking thing on top of IP, in case you did not know.
I am having shut down issues and today no start, first crank of the day. I plugged up a spare, used PMD and still no start. Well this is new. Also noticed a click click click when cranking but no run. This sounded lots like a loose spark plug wire on a gasser, you know, spark sound. Well I played around with wire and plugs still nothing. It finally started to run and shut back down. I then unplugged the fuel shut down sol., ran a straight 12 v to the shut down sol. and started right up. I then checked for 12 v at the now disconnected plug, and I read 12v. So I am now thinking not PMD but the 12 v feed going to this solenoid. Possible 12v but low current from ignition switch or bad grounds. OR maybe sol had trash or stuck and straight 12 v loosened things up a bit. Any way I plugged everything back up factory style and has run with out hitch today. Wonder if the click sound I heard was the fuel shut down sol opening and closing while cranking.
I have cold start issues and will run a straight 12v to the sol tomorrow and see if cold starts are changed.
I get paid by the word.
Thanks
Buzz

Yangtze

01-06-2005, 10:06

I've recently puchased a (Canadian) 97 1/2T Silverado 6.5L at an auction. 121000 mi. Now you understand why it was at the auction. I didn't - I'm a diesel newbie - ignorant of 120000 mi warranties. I've also never done a forum before, nonetheless - I'll proceed. When driving the vehicle home from the auction I noted the RPMs seemed excessive - 2200 for 60 MPH. The error codes were 118, 223, 236,380, & 405. Took it into the dealership - reported 12 severed (Cleanly) wires going into the PCM behind the glove box and spliced all - engine ran intermittantly and spat out codes 223, 251, 370, 380, & 405. They finally cleared those, got it to run - markedly improved performance and stated they believed the EGR passages should be cleaned and the fuel filter should be replaced as the lift pump pressure 'appeared low'. Picked it up from the dealership and it stalled driving off the lot....... and numerous times since - both under load and going uphill. I've changed the filter and checked the lift pump pressure - 4.5 psi. Since becoming a member yesterday I've read with rapt interest the voluminous message traffic irt this subject - stalling. I took the vehicle back to the dealer and asked them to investigate the stalling and steered them towards the FSD. They insist on revisting the PCM harness and may perhaps work there way over to the FSD. Seems a plausible approach given someone had destroyed the harness and it IS possible a connector or conductor is degraded .....but all your postings about the FSD are very compelling - will update when known.

IRT the SOL-D product - as a supervisory electrical design engineer for the US Navy I can't over-emphasize the importance in 1st article testing of components that are to be placed in service in mission critical systems - whether it's the propulsion system on a nuclear aircraft carrier or your vehcile carrying your wife and children through a blizzard or across the desert - it had better be 'proven'. One observation from the SOL-D feedback comments is that the suspect diode was rated for 150 C - is that rise above ambient - or - absolute ? If ambient - what does your specification state as ambient ? Doesn't encapsulating the diode degrade it's thermal properties by trapping the dissipated heat ? I applaud this type of after market platform (SOL-D) and it's premise of attempting to improve/replace an OEM product - and I may ultimately install one as my confidence level in my dealership is waning - but I don't desire to be a participant (at my expense) in the test phase twice (dealership and SOL-D).
Having said all this - anyone ever encounter similar issues - ie cut harnesses ? My bet is the previous owner astutely determined how to bypass the PCM and keep it running (degraded performance) and once > 120000 - took it to the auction.
thanks

Heilander

01-07-2005, 08:26

Yantze, you mentioned that this was a Canadian truck, which means that the odometer would display in kilometes - does it show 121,000km or did you do the conversion from 197,000km to miles?
- Just curious. :confused:

Eddys

01-11-2005, 04:30

Got the Blazer back from the dealer on Friday. Result like I suspected from the begining the PMD! I'm thinking of purchasing the remote PMD package from A1 customs. Has anyone bought anything from them?

later

rjschoolcraft

01-11-2005, 07:34

I would not recommend that guy. Lot's of negative feedback. Kennedy Diesel or Heath Diesel would be better choices, with my preference being Kennedy.

JohnC

01-11-2005, 07:35

Originally posted by Eddys:
I'm thinking of purchasing the remote PMD package from A1 customs. Has anyone bought anything from them? All I will say is that he is banned from this and at least one other site.

DILLIGAFRI

01-11-2005, 07:48

Went thru the stalling prob with my 98 Cured the prob with Bill Heath's unit. No problems and a clean install. High reguards for his product
Dave

Eddys

01-11-2005, 09:55

Thanks guys for you feed back on the PMD. I'll have a look at Kennedy diesel and Heath diesel. I just want something that works and not requiring too many modifications. I liked the concept of A1 customs which included the wiring harness which made it plug and play and bolted on the firewall. I also tried to email remarq (SOL-D) for more information and they never replied. I guess they don't need my money.

94blue

01-11-2005, 10:44

Hey EDDYS,

How has the A1 Custom PMD working out?

94blue.

Eddys

01-13-2005, 04:31

Hi 94Blue

I have not purchased it. I was thinking about it but when I mentioned A1 customs on the forum I got a few negative feedbacks therefore I will wait on that. I started looking at Remarq (SOL-D) but not impressed with the reviews I read so far.

94blue

01-18-2005, 14:41

THAT'S WHY I ASKED,

I DID'NT SEE THE REVIEWS ON THIS BOARD DID I?

EMIAL ME IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

JAY@TRANSWORLDINCELECTRIC.COM

THANKS,

94blue

Eddys

01-19-2005, 07:17

Just an update going on the second week with replacement PMD from the dealer. The truck runs fine. I was also impressed yesterday it was -26C and -38C with the winds. The balzer fired right up without being plugged considering it was parked for 24hrs. I never thought it would of started that easy. I usaully plug it when it's -18C and colder. I also got email back remarq and this it.

Thank you for your interest in our SOL-D Solenoid Driver. Here are the answers to your questions:

"How difficult is it to install and how long?"

The new batch of SOL-D, available in the later part of February, will have a Kennedy Diesel modified wire harness and coupling connector that makes a plug-and-play installation. Estimated installation time is approx. 10-20 minutes.

"Does it come with an electrical connector or do I have to splice the existing electrical wiring harness?"
Please see the above response.

"Where does it bolt on?"
The SOL-D is recommended to be installed on the driver side M8 bolts holding the Upper Dome of the air intake manifold. Please see the picture on our website.

"Can I mount the SOL-D in a different location (e.g. the fire wall)?
If so is the wiring harness long enough to do so?
Sure you can if you use and extension wire harness from Kennedy Diesel. We do not consider necessary to extend the wire harness. The longer the wire harness the higher the electromagnetic radiation (these devices operates in electrical pulses) and radio interference may be higher.

"How long has this Sol-D been on the market?"

The SOL-D has been in testing for over a year, and on the market for 5-6 months.

"What

skidoocam

01-27-2005, 18:32

I just joined this forum to figure out what is wrong with my 6.5L and I am also having problems with it shutting off when I am driving. I took it to the dealer and they said I need a new fuel pump and lift pump! Does that sound right? It runs fine most of the time and, with my budget, would be pretty disapointed if it kept doing the same thing after I bought a new pump. I saw what Ranchman said about the DS4 Solenoid Driver (What ever that is) and check my recipt and it said "Code 35 stored in history" So I guess I will try and replace that thing first. Could someone tell me what the PMD/FSD is??

Eddys

01-31-2005, 10:23

Go to this site.

http://www.thedieselpage.com/members/tt99-9.htm

This will help you get a better understanding.

skidoocam

02-08-2005, 19:46

Thanks I figured it out after a little more poking around the site. I changed the FSD and so far so good. Time to sell it I think. I tried to click on that link and my password didn't work?

Eddys

02-10-2005, 10:05

Hi Skidoocam

My username and password are different when I log on to the member's list from the forum. Check that out in case yours is too. As for selling the truck check out the after market FSD and coolers out there first. That's the only problem I had with mine. Replaced it twice in ten years under warrantty. Can you give me your email I need to ask you something concerning ski-doos.

Eddys

Barry Nave

02-14-2005, 16:43

I don't get this plug and play on the SOL-D.
The SOL-D that came to me was a plug and play.
And is running far better than any FSD I have went through. :confused:
I know I have more power,less smoke.
This talk about RemarQ just floors me.
I've talked to C. Stan and Chris and they were two of the best guys I have dealt with on this SOL-D.
Contact Tel 416-756-4890
772 Gordon Baker Rd.
Toronto, Ontario M2H 3B4
Canada

Subject: Return of SOL-D unit. 12/10/2004 9:26pm
Barry,

I am sorry for the delayed message. We regret the inconvenience and we will do our best to ship you a replacement unit early next week. Following the first failed unit sent for evaluation to the Diesel Page, we implemented an extended overstress burn-in test for all SOL-D units in house. Unfortunately, your unit did not go through this process, as it was shipped earlier. This new process created a significant number of back orders. we stsrted testing your unit with a higher priority,but this will not be done before Tuesday (we do cycle the temperature from low teens F to about 220-240 degF, while running the SOL-D at high load given by maximum RPM equivalent physically possible.) The procees is about double the effectiv 72 hours burn-in.

This weekend or at the lates on monday,we will send to Jim Bigley (for publishing) our investigation report about the three units we had received. we do not want to guess the failure mode of your unit,but the three failed units had the same symptoms and same cause. We want to be fair to all our ustomers and potential customers, in presenting the information from a single source and at the same time. Be rest assured that we will get back to you with our investigation report about your unit as soon as we have it available.
C. Stan RemarQ

Subject: Re # 2 Driver

Thank you for your kind words Barry. It is very nice to have customers like you, that go out of their way to work with our company. We want to build not only a good, reliable product, but an excellence in customer service. Please continue to communicate with us as often as you fell necessary, providing us with feedback(good or bad) that will help us continuously improve.

It is our privleg to serving you and once again we apologize for the inconvenience the SOL-D failure has created. We will be replacing your exixting SOL-D with the latest manufactured one as soon as we will have them ready.
Thank you for your business.

Sincerely,
Chris. The cure is out

AS I have said my # 2 unit is one of a kind

[ 02-14-2005, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Bnave95 ]

Iain

02-16-2005, 13:58

I had the same thing on my 1994 GMC, it would stall under acceleration but then start right up. No codes were set. The problem was the inejection pump, dealer changed it under warrenty.

rjschoolcraft

02-16-2005, 14:31

Originally posted by Iain:
I had the same thing on my 1994 GMC, it would stall under acceleration but then start right up. No codes were set. The problem was the inejection pump, dealer changed it under warrenty. Read about stalling on this forum. It's very likely that your dealer changed the pump when all that was wrong was the FSD. This is the standard dealer approach.

By the way... Welcome to the forum!

Iain

02-17-2005, 18:50

Thanks for the welcome! I was lucky as I was just under the warrenty limit of 193000 km. I figured if they wanted to change it all out, might as well get a new pump in the process courtesy of GM. I did add an FSD Cooler kit so as to keep the FSD alive for years to come.

wayne zylik

02-21-2005, 14:18

I am having a similar problem with my 96 Suburban It runs fine and stalls takes 20-45 minutes before restart is possible have noticed that the Glow Plug lite does not come on when the restart is attempted but it will flash several times when the system allows a restart it is not a PMD as I have replaced them twice during the last 3 months and when the failure does occur the PMD temp are at 60 -70 degrees F and no codes are showing up on the scanner. This problem has occurred when I start the truck in the mornings.Am I looking at a PCM failure or an ignition switch failure

rjschoolcraft

02-21-2005, 14:32

Two things are most likely: ignition switch or glow plug relay.

Since yours is stalling first, it is most likely the ignition switch or connections for such. Check all of your grounds and connections (see This Article (http://www.thedieselpage.com/members/tt99-9.htm) in the members area for more information), then check the switch.

I had a glow plug relay problem once that caused a no start problem similar to yours. The glow plug light would not come on and the truck would not start. Repeat tries would eventually get the light to come on, then the truck would start. However, this did not cause a stalling problem along with it. Therefore, I would first suspect the ignition switch.

wayne zylik

02-21-2005, 18:16

Thanks Ronniejoe will check out wiring I have eliminated all other potental causes
Thanks again
Wayne Z

Marty Lau

02-28-2005, 16:32

Originally posted by Eddys:
Got the Blazer back from the dealer on Friday. Result like I suspected from the begining the PMD! I'm thinking of purchasing the remote PMD package from A1 customs. Has anyone bought anything from them?

later I asked about business refereces and phone and address for this guy and he refused to provide it. Also check out this guys return policy basiclly there is none. STAY AWAY FROM A-1.

Marty Lau

02-28-2005, 16:44

Originally posted by Eddys:
Hi 94Blue

I have not purchased it. I was thinking about it but when I mentioned A1 customs on the forum I got a few negative feedbacks therefore I will wait on that. I started looking at Remarq (SOL-D) but not impressed with the reviews I read so far. I don't blame you the SOL-D has not proven to be reliable yet. I went with the Heath PMD Isolator kit every thing you need and Heath Diesel backs it for 7 years and Heath has been working on Chevy Diesels since the 6.2 Diesel days and you can talk to Bill on the phone and his word is his bond. I first tried the Beta cooler which the A-1 is a knock off of. There are other options that may work.

Eddys

03-01-2005, 04:26

Hi 16ga sxs

You bought the Heath PMD Isolator kit does it include a new PMD or just a heat sink and how long have you had it? As A1 customs I'm definetly not buying from them either. It's impossible to talk to someone on the phone over at A1 because they won't give out their phone number. I found that strange.

Marty Lau

03-01-2005, 12:01

Hi Eddys;
The Isolator kits comes with the PMD/FSD mounted on a the heat sink plate, 6 foot extension and mounting kit. I have had mine under 2 years and have 35,000 miles on it. Be sure to tell Bill your a Diesel Page Member and he MAY give you a discount. If you do a search for Heath you'll find out what the folks that have dealt with him feel about doing business. I think Heath and Kennedy are our two best 6.5TD vendors, they both stand by their products and are very helpfull. Both own or have owned 6.5TDs and their shops work on them regular. Hope this helps. ;)

If you get the Isolator you can leave the PMD on your pump and use it as a spare so that if FSD/PMD on the Isolator craps out you can plug into the PMD on the pump till you get a replacement.

Eddys

03-03-2005, 09:28

Thanks for the info 16 gauge.

I got another problem now with my pickup 1996 Z71 with a 6.5TD. This truck is driving me nuts. It could run fine for months and then the engine lights up. When the engine lights up it could be on for days with no performance problem and sometimes it might stall and start up again but with no power. Last week it stalled while driving and the engine light came on. Was able to start it but then stalled again and unable to start it. Left parked for two days. Tried again on Monday and guess what no problem engine light gone and rides like a champ again. I had brougt it to GM the first time this happened and they changed the fuel pump that was two years ago. A year later same problem. GM this time changed the PMD and seemed to run fine. Only lasted a month then engine light came on again. The truck still performed well despite the engine light. I then called back the dealer and brought it in and with the scanner on they were not able to find anything wrong. The light went off and did not come back unit last friday since early summer. Is there a way to read the codes without going to the dealer? I'm also open for any suggestions?

rjschoolcraft

03-03-2005, 09:59

Have you read this Turbo Tips (http://www.thedieselpage.com/members/tt99-9.htm) article? This article addresses many other issues that can cause this problem.

Adam

03-03-2005, 15:25

I, too, am having this stalling problem now. My pump was replaced at 90K miles, but I now have 155K. The problem just started this week. I replaced my lift pump already. It stalled again this morning. I have noticed that it does not matter whether I am accelerating or just parked in the parking lot, it can stall. It always starts right back up with no extra cranking. However, when the engine is good and warmed up, it does not stall. Only on short trips around town does it happen. No light comes on for check engine. I went to a mechanic today and paid to have him check for history codes, and his scanner said there were no codes to report at all. I did notice that the fuel shut off solenoid (silver tube you can put your hand on in front of the injection pump) seems a bit loose; not a lot, just a little bit -- is that normal? Should I replace the PMD? :confused: Please help guys. This is a lot of money. :eek: Thanks.
Adam

Marty Lau

03-07-2005, 08:45

Adam;
There is a check list of items to check and work on before replacing the PMD. Do some looking around you'll find the thing to look at like, clean and check all grounds, the OPS, ECT. If you have have a small cooler put sone ice in it if it quits and won't start put ice on the PMD and if starts right up it most likey that.

Eddys

03-09-2005, 04:21

Hi RonnieJoe

Thanks for the tips I read them and will definetly try them. The truck rides great again and for how long nobody knows. It's been two weeks since that mishap and still runs strong without doing anything. I'll wait until spring when it gets warmer to do the work since the truck does not fit in my garage. I have to work outside. It's still cold here in Montreal. It's -29C with the winds today.

Robyn

03-25-2005, 15:52

Get a SOL-D unit from Remarq Tech and this will fix the stalling and no restart. If there are no codes the PMD is almost assuredly the culprit. You can buy a cheap scan tool that plugs into the OBD port under the dash and you can count the light flashes so you dont have to take it to a dealer.

99gmccrew

03-28-2005, 21:32

My truck has just now, after a year and a half being it's owner, started stalling on me. The first time about a week ago, at a stop light,it did not start right back up like most have reported. It took about 5 minutes of repeated trying before it would start. Second time it stalled just after pulling out of the driveway and restarted after about 20 minutes. I had an extra OPS so I installed it, just to see if I could get lucky. It was not easy to get at or to remove it. So far, it has not stalled again. I have ordered a new PMD to have as a back up. I've noticed some odd behavior coming from this truck for about a month now. Hiccups on the freeway cruising at 65. Surging from time to time. I've changed fuel filters, checked wiring and now changed the OPS. Only time will tell but it really seems to act like the PMD is starting to fail. Thank God for the diesel page. smile.gif

Eddys

03-29-2005, 09:36

Hi Robyn C52

Will any OBD scan tool work on 1996 6.5td or is there a diffrent model because it's a diesel? Never used one that's why I'm asking. If I could do it myself it would be great I wouldn't have to go to the dealer and get charged for it.

99gmccrew

03-29-2005, 16:03

Eddys, This one works for me and the price is right.
;)

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46030

DaveHart

04-25-2005, 16:20

SOMEBODY do some splainin' on the ignition harness and other non-PMD issues related to stalling.

I went through PMD failure at the end of last summer. Put on FSD on cooler and left old PMD on pump. Added a new lift pump while we were at it.

Recently, its started stalling after hitting a bad bump or getting into a construction zone, milled pavement, etc. Not a good time to loose it. It's also has had a "bump" for the past few years at a certain excelleration (neither PMD nor lift pump fixed this). Sometimes this kick can be too much.

Cranks right back up in neutral on the fly.

I've also noticed that the gauges will sometimes quickly fall and start responding again with little other or no response from the engine compartment. Its so fast, I'm sure it happens at other times when I don't even notice.

The worn wiring issue sounds like it could have promise. Is the harness easy to get to, or will I have to get the tools to pull the steering wheel? What should I be looking for so I can see if I can repeat this in the driveway.

99gmccrew

04-26-2005, 21:45

My truck stalled again after changing the ops. I finally installed a new fsd onto a large heat sink under the front bumper. I've gone on a trip towing a boat through the desert. So far the truck has been running like a champ. I'm certain at this point my problem was a failing fsd. With the out of the engine compartment location, fsd stays cool at all times, never getting over what feels like about 85F to the touch after long drives.
Only time will tell but it's driving better than ever. No misses, surging or stalling since changing the fsd.

Eddys

04-27-2005, 08:36

Just to let you know this week on Monday the Blazer died again. In late January they replaced the PMD at the GM dealer. The truck ran like a champ until Monday. Stopped in the front of my house when in to get something go back out and no start. It would just crank over and once in while sputter but that's it. Towed to the dealer and guess what? The PMD again. I don't understand it hasn't seen much heat it's not hot yet here in Montreal. I maybe put five thousand kilometers since the replacement module. Also this time around no warning signs it just quit working. In January it would stall once in a while while driving and start up again.
The only good thing was they replaced the PMD under warranty.

Truckie117

07-08-2005, 19:29

Hey got my second PMD replacment after just 36,000 miles lets see how long this one lasts.
Asked the dealer to remotely attach the Pmd he laughed. So lets see how long it lasts.

TTM

09-27-2005, 12:05

I've been reading this string for awhile since my pickup has been stalling with no codes off and on for the last 2 months. I had the pump and the fsd replaced under warrenty in 2002 from the dealer. I'm pretty sure it's the fsd failing. My dealer has a Standanye fsd in stock. How hard is it to change this out? I would like to do the remote mount on the firewall what would I be looking at?

Barry Nave

09-29-2005, 00:29

Changing the PMD, will need to take the intake manfold off to get to the driver. I would go for a FSD cooler and mount where JK has showen at his web site. Look under Tech Tips.
I'm running the SOL-D,installed Nov. 94. This driver has solved a code 35-36 issue that I had been working on. The SOL-D is mounted on the intake where running a FSD cooler should be mounted else where in a cooler area. Before the install of the SOL-D I had a Beta cooler mounted PMD on the intake and the PMD only lasted 30K before it went bad. Had I mounted the cooler as showen in JK web site the PMD may have lasted longer? Still have the Beta cooler as a back up though I say the SOL-D is a better replacement for a driver.

[ 09-29-2005, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: Bnave95 ]

arveetek

10-13-2005, 16:35

I've owned my '95 6.5L for two days, and it's already stalled on me! While leaving a JV football game tonight, it shut off three times in less than a mile! It was hard to start after it shut off, too. After a couple of miles, it ran just fine again.

It's got about 30,000 miles on a dealer-installed IP. I'm sure it's the PMD, though. It shut off, but the dash lights stayed on. It doesn't like to start sometimes, either hot or cold.

Oh well, I've been reading up on the 6.5L's electronic problems for quite some time, so I was prepared for this...I was just hoping to get to drive it a little bit more first!

Casey

Am General

10-19-2005, 09:11

I'm a new forum member but I've had my truck for years. It's a 2001 H1 TD. I've been having stalling issues as of late as well. Here is what I've come up with.
It seems unaffected by weather (hot, cold, wet, dry etc.) and only occurs for the first 15 or so minutes after startup (cold, or hot, but only after sitting for a while when still hot) It has never stalled or even stuttered after it's been running for a while. One engine code on the scanner. P1216 Fuel solenoind response time too short.It is very random. Sometimes it will be fine for weeks, then do it again. It seemed to dissapear for a while when I replaced the fuel filter, then came back. (coincidence?) Fuel does not have water in it. It has always started either right back up, or within 30 seconds or so. (except for my submarine commander incident, where I think the 4 feet of water I drove through may have made it's way into the fuel system, Long time ago) Sometimes it wont fully stall, only stutter and come back with a mighty cloud of black smoke for a second. It has symptoms of FSD, but once it's running, it's fine, so that leans me away from that. I got one opinion from the Hummer forum that it could be a fuel leak AFTER the lift pump. One small enough just to seep, and maybe not cause a drip, but enough to let air in after shut down. After the truck has stalled enough times, and run long enough to burp the air it runs fine. So they're saying maybe my filter isn't on tight enough, or something similar. I can't really look for seeping fuel, because the whole housing is doused in it from bleeding. The code says it may be caused by air entering the system. Does this sound feasable? I'd appreciate some feedback. Thanks for reading all that!

Adam

[ 10-19-2005, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Am General ]

Barry Nave

10-20-2005, 00:32

Adam Welcome :D
Our fuel tanks do have some vaccum in them. Try a day or so with fuel cap loose. A small leak can allow air into system. Our injection pump will run with out the lift pump working. A check would be to open water drain vavle when running to see if eng. stalls. This will tell if oil psi unit and lift pump are working.
Another check would be to replace the return line from front of injection pump with a clear tubing and look for air bubbles.
This can be done on injectors also. Worn or bad injectors can allow air back into system.
Another thing to check would be the shut off solenoid.

Am General

10-20-2005, 03:14

Thanks for your feedback. I'll have to try the clear tube thing. Would a leak like that cause problems all the time? I was playing around witht the MT 2500 yesterday, and activated the ESO solenoid. It shut the truck off, but not smoothly like it is when the truck stalls. It's kinda jerky. I also activated and deactivated the lift pump. It made no difference with the truck running to shut off the pump, but that's expected I guess because the injector pump still sucks fuel. The lift pump works, at least to some extent, as I can bleed the filter housing and get quite a bit of fuel to come out. I'll try some of those things you mentioned and report back after I do. Thanks again for the warm welcome!

arveetek

10-20-2005, 06:45

Originally posted by Am General:
I've been having stalling issues as of late as well. It seems unaffected by weather (hot, cold, wet, dry etc.) and only occurs for the first 15 or so minutes after startup (cold, or hot, but only after sitting for a while when still hot) It has never stalled or even stuttered after it's been running for a while.
Adam My truck was doing the same thing. I could start it up cold, then drive all day long without shutting it off, and it would never stall. However, after it had been shut off for an hour or so, it would stall two or three times in the first mile, and then be fine from then on out. My lift pump wasn't working due to a failed OPS (oil pressure switch). I got the pump running, but it didn't solve the stalling. I replaced the FSD and mounted in on an FSD cooler that I purchased from Kennedy Diesel, and it seems to have cured the stalling.

I believe the reason it was stalling after sitting for a while was due to heat from the engine soaking into the FSD and shorting it out. After driving a little while, it would cool back down some.

Casey

Kev-o

11-08-2005, 09:58

Having the same problem on a 98 i just picked up i will try the trouble shooting ive seen here first and the PMD last. Why could you not make your own wiring ext. weatherpak of course and mount a new pmd on a peice of aluminum for a heat sink? New to this site and can`t believe the info available thanks in advance!

JohnC

11-08-2005, 10:32

Originally posted by Kev-o:
Why could you not make your own wiring ext. weatherpak of course Many have tried; many have failed. The problem is that the connecxtor on the FSD is not available separately.

When the lift pump fails it removes the cooling effect of the extra fuel flowing through the injection pump, hastening the inevitable.

Kev-o

11-08-2005, 12:06

Thanks JohnC, It`s amazing what a little electric fuelpump can do! I never gave much thought to the IP working harder when the tank is low, no lubricant, Lift pump weak or dead! I have very seldom run additive in my old 6.2 blazer.

Kev-o

12-31-2005, 18:15

Just got a new PMD (stanadyne) and wiring ext. and i am still searching for the right heat sink. I have it mounted on an old IP housing for now but seems to have cured the problem. The GM dealers in Red Deer want $708.00 cdn for the PMD (stanadyne) and i picked it up at central diesel services for $354.00 cdn, go figure. did all the toubleshooting first, probably good to ceck and clean all that stuff once in a while anyway. Thanks for the great site and all the members who share this info.

Cheers and have a happy new year.

Kev-o

Lug

04-03-2006, 15:52

Does the stalling problem begin with the engine stumbling first? My 94 'burb has began to have a stumble or hesitation at a constant throttle setting. The fuel filter sumps clean and the oil pressure switch activates the lift pump. I'll try a new fuel filter tonite or tomorrow.
Justin

Lug

04-04-2006, 11:29

Fuel filter seems to have cured the stumble for right now. Filter didn't seem that bad, but the bottom of the bowl was full of heavy sediment.
Justin

Steve_M

05-07-2006, 14:54

'95 Suburban 2500 4x4. 104K miles, mostly towing. Intermittent stalls, both at speed and while coasting to a stop. Usually restarts easily, though on recent event it had a hard time restarting and when it did start it would go a couple hundred yards and stall again. Had it towed to the dealer that time and they replaced the lift pump. Ran fine for a month and then started stalling on my wife who promptly called me while I was on a business trip seeking ways to fix it?

Anyway, please clarify PMD vs FSD? My Trouble Shooting book says "Pump Mounted Driver (Fuel Solenoid Driver)". So am I safe to conclude that they are one in the same?

I've gone through most of the "No Start, Stall, DTC 35 or P1216" tips, with the exception of the clear tube test for air in the injection system and the Circuit 439 test. I'm pretty confident that I'm not getting air in the injection as it shuts off abrubtly, whereas air in the injection system causes the engine to run rough or shudder. How the heck do you access the plug on the FSD to test for voltage on circuit 439 without removing the intake stuff above the injection pump?

Finally, there is an extended warranty coverage on the injection pump covering 11 years from the date of original sale or 120K miles. I'm the second owner so I might be past the 11 years, but definitely not 120K miles. I'm going to take it into the dealer first to see if they will just replace the injection pump. If not, I'm pretty sure it's the FSD and I will look into a new one mounted off the injection pump.

Comments/answers are appreciated.

JohnC

05-08-2006, 10:25

Anyway, please clarify PMD vs FSD? My Trouble Shooting book says "Pump Mounted Driver (Fuel Solenoid Driver)". So am I safe to conclude that they are one in the same?

Yes, the same.

Sounds like you are on the right track.

The connector can be removed by using a long, thin screw driver to release the clip-lock on the side of the connector and levering the plug off the PMD. Be aware, the chances of getting it back on again successfully are somewhere between slim and none!

Good luck with the warranty. My guess is you are at or over the 11 year limit, but, the dealer has some lattitude to press for warranty coverage. If you have a relationship wit a dealer, that's the one you want to go to.

Sometimes the dealer wants to see stored fault codes, so, whatever you do, don't pull the fuel solenoid fuse and crank the engine, as it will set codes....

Steve_M

05-10-2006, 21:07

As second owner, found that the vehicle was originally purchased in February '95. Dealer said no go on the warranty, yet I had the lift pump replace in February at another dealer when I was stranded. I told them the problem was intermitent over the past year, but had not stranded me. Again, no go. Itemized total for replament with "new upgraded injection pump" was $2990. I told them sorry, but there are much cheaper after market alternatives.

So, help me out on my decisions. Should I go the Sol D route, or replacement Stanadyne FSD with cooler? I do not face the cold weather start issue in SoCal, which could favor the Sol D. What's been the luck with the remote mounted Stan with a heat sink cooler attached?

JeffsTowTruck

07-01-2006, 14:05

Steve M ----I also have no warranty. The same problem has happen to me. 1st I replace the pump with a used one. The shop had a fit. The next time
I had read about the FSD Coooler here on this site and bought it. I have had no problem for about 3 years and a couple weeks ago the same intermition problem happen again. I called the local fuel injection co. and they wanted 330.00 or the Pump Driver, Black box. I bought mine from the Dealer at Cash Wholesale through a business for 315.00. All problems were solved. I never checked the codes due to this has happened to me 2 other times and both time it was the FSD and not the pump. My truck never set a code ( no idiot lights are on). I found out the pump is a good pump but the black box ( FSD) is what goes bad. Due to heat breaks it down, There is a pic. of the FSD /Cooler in my 6.5 photos.
Hope this helps and you get it fixed.

chevss442

07-27-2006, 20:15

BILLYDIESEL

08-14-2006, 19:37

The 1994 Fuel Lift Pump System Operates On An Initial Fuel Prime When Starting And Then Is Controlled By The Engine Oil Pressure
Sensor When The Oil Pressure Has Reached About 40 To 60 Psi.
Check That First,if O.k Pump Is Going Down.
You Could Probably Put A New Driver On It.but Thats Just A Band Aid.

BILLYDIESEL

08-14-2006, 19:42

I am going to relocate my FSD/PMD and put it on a cooler this weekend. So far it is working fine, but I want to try to avoid problems. My question is, is there a way to remove it from the injection pump without having to remove the intake manifold?

Thanks!
REMOVE A/C COMPRESSOR,MARK YOUR INJECTION PUMP TO YOUR TIMMING COVER AND ROTATE IT TO PASS SIDE.USE A T15 TORX AND A 1/4 IN WRENCH
TO LOOSEN ALL TORX SCREWS."THE TRICK IS TO GRIND DOWN THE TIP OF
THE TORX BIT TO MAKE ENOUGH ROOM FOR YOU",AS SOON AS YOU SE THE
ACTUAL HEAD OF THE SCREW AND THE DRIVER MOD COME FLUSH "STOP"
THATS ALL YOU NEED TO GO.THEN GIVE THE MOD A COUPLE TAPS AND IT
WILL COME OFF.;)

andro70

08-31-2006, 07:37

Can anyone tell me what the part number is for the ignition switch that has been discussed regarding stalling? If nobody knows the part number a picture or description of what it looks llike.

Thanks

JohnC

09-05-2006, 11:30

Do I have the same problem?

I don't think so. I have moved this post to a new thread: http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=24299

jilaroo2

09-11-2006, 02:41

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: Untill last week I had intermittent "no start"problems ( hot or cold ) .
I installed a brand new remote FSD last week.
Drove it arround for a week ( close to home to make sure I would make it back) and no more problems.
Today I took it further away and guess what happened !
It wouldn't start when hot.
After a while got it started and then on my way home it stalled on the freeway!
No way to get it started again ! Switched to other PMD
same problem.Had it towed home and in my driveway I tried it one last time (towtruck was still there)and it fired right up !
I noticed some problems with my ignition , so I'm thinking of changing the ignition harness.(partnumber:#26075995 ) $88 at www.rockauto.com.
Is there something else I should check before doing this and do I need to replace other things?
Any of you guys live near San Jose, CA.
I don't know how to keep this engine running.
Totally unreliable IMHO.

skyway9517

09-11-2006, 09:14

I have a '96 6.5TD with original engine/trans and 210,000 miles on it. I had the same problem, going down the road minding my own business, and the dumb thing just shuts off. No SES code either, you pull to the side of the road and it would usually start up in a minute or so... When the PMD starts becoming intermittent, it's getting ready to puke out on you at what is usally a most inoppertune time. Currently, I'm on my 3rd Stanadyne PMD aka FSD and they cost around $350.

The original mounting location of the PMD was on the side of the injector pump, down in the rocker valley under the intake manifold... Bad place to put an electronic module (heat and electonic module = trouble). The second one I remote mounted the module to the top on the engine and attached it to the upper intake, that one ultimately died too!! For the 3rd one, I went to SS Diesel (www.ssdieselsupply.com) and bought the BIG heat sinc, then to Kennedy Diesel (www.kennedydiesel.com) and bought the 72" harness extension and remote mounted the entire unit in an area that I could keep cool. I put mine in the cab of the vehicle right under the floor vent on the transmission hump. Did that 3 months ago and been working fine ever since through the summer heat!! Not pretty, but gets the jobs done by keeping it out of the multi-hundred degree engine compartment:o)

We ALL hate to throw $$$$ at "What if's" but this worked for my truck and problem... Just my 2 cents

jilaroo2

09-19-2006, 19:24

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Before spending loads of $$$$$ as I did. Here's some tips that might be interesting of checking out. It only takes some of your time and might solve the problem. It worked for me (http://dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif after spending the money....)I bought my truck in April this year and I

backbrakebilly

09-27-2006, 22:39

Here's my problem...........
1996 GMC 6.5TD
Runs good every now and then but most of the time it Burps and stalls on a regular basis. When it stalls the check engine light comes on. Might crank right back up and it might take a while to crank back up. When it burps going down the road it starts rattling very bad like the valves are coming loose. Get it home and let it sit over night and the loud rattling goes away and it runs fine until it decides to act up again which could be at any time. Had the IP/FSD replaced not too long ago at the dealer. We read the codes after one of these episodes and the code that popped up first said the Fuel Temp. Sensor was the problem. Is this a possibility?
Looking for some place to start.............
Fuel Filter changed...........
Fuel flowing through bleed off.............
Next?

Thanks in advance for any help!!!

ccraft12

02-14-2007, 17:37

I have a 1997 2500 xcab, 65,000 miles, with the 190 hp version of the engine. I had the same intermittent stalling problems and it would start back up fine. I took it to the dealer and they checked the fuel flow and it was only the fuel filter. It has been three weeks since any stalling issues. Good luck.

coastlogger

05-15-2007, 21:07

I went through quite a performance with this problem and I really hate walking. To go along with this my tach started to act up although all the scantools said the senders were giving the right signal. The dealer mechanic said I needed a new instrument cluster. As it turned out we noticed that the charging rate seemed low so changed the alt. This cured the tach problem . Not sure why but one should not look a gift horse in the mouth.Didn't cure the no start/stall. I changed the ignition switch and have not had a problem since.I remote mounted the fuel driver several years ago but changed it and the pump at this time. The pump was getting close to expected life anyway.

SteveJan

07-12-2007, 12:21

Does outside ambient temperature have any bearing on stalling? It seems to act up when the temp. drops. It has been in the mid to upper 90's and it seem to run fine. Then when the temp drops to around 65-70 range, as it did last night the stalling starts. Or is this a coincidence? Sometimes it will restart right a way, other times it has to sit for a while a few minutes to 15 or 20 minutes.
I have a 1997 Chevy G2500 Van 6.5 Diesel. Replaced (under warranty) the injector pump in 05/01 at 48000 miles, Fuel lift pump 12/05 at 92000. Recently (last month) I replaced the oil pressure/lift pump switch at 107,000 miles (the black plastic covering was cracked/broken, don't know how, this was found out as I tried to remove the electrical connection). And last I replaced the fuel filter last week. The stalling continues. I'm guessing the FSD/PMD is the culprit, but the temperature thing is baffling me.

Thanks, Steve

wiganwarrior

07-13-2007, 05:24

hi,im from the uk and i have a suburban 6.5 turbo diesel.i have the same problem as 1 r 2 of the members.my vehicle will drive fine for 80 miles then it will start to cut out,on the other hand it will stall immidiately after starting.generally it will kick straight back in but occasionally it will need to be put in nueteral ignition tunned off and restarted.(it always restarts)and ive never had to have it towed back.i have had it into my main gmc dealer who scanned it and told me its the fuel injection pump thus the repair bill will be in excess of

twaddle

07-13-2007, 06:51

Hi wiganwarrior,
I'm also in the UK and have a 96 Diesel suburban which used to stall on a very intermittent basis.
First, Which dealer did you take it to and what codes (actual numbers) were showing when they scanned it?
Next, are you mechanically inclined and able to have a go at checking some things?
How long have you owned the truck and any history on how long this problem occurring?

When you first turn on the ignition switch, can you hear the lift pump buzzing from under the body below the drivers seat? That's assuming your Sub is still left hand drive.

Let us know and perhaps we can help before you need to spend

wiganwarrior

07-13-2007, 14:48

im not sure if it does kick in to be honest,niether am i mechanically minded.the dealer i went to was in manchester,ive taken it to quite a few garages and theyve come back with all diff notions.ie engine cut off switch,turbo vacuum,dodgy fuel ect

cryodrene

08-22-2007, 13:44

I have the common problem of the truck shutting off while driving. It is getting worse and worse. I replaced the PMD and it worked ok for a week. It shut off yesterday and I pulled out the PMD and put it in the freezer for 10 mins. When I put it back in it started right up. Drove about 5 blocks and it shut off again. This time I walked home and waited a couple of hours. I took a freezer pack for sore muscles and wrapped it around the PMD and it started right up and drove fine all the way home. I let it sit and idle with no problems for 20 mins. Then shut off even with the cold blanket I have rigged up. Any suggestions for this. I don't think it is the PMD anymore since my little experiment. Also, I noticed that when going down the highway it feels like it is struggling sometimes. Like if you were to slightly give it gas and then slow down but faster. When it does that the fuel gage starts to bounce around. Then it smoothes out.

John Worlow

10-07-2007, 18:16

I have a problem with the 6.5 (1994) model in a Chev. Silverado. The engine is a little hard to start and will actually shudder after warm up if you try to rev the engine to the point of maximum or intermeditate speed. Any answer for this. I have put a racor 230 filter system on the engine. Thanks John Worlow johnworlow@yahoo.com:confused::confused:

KillerBob

11-20-2007, 20:33

Hey everyone. I had the same problem with my '96 6.5...cruising along fine, then either it would buck or stall completely...would usually start on the coast in neutral but not always. Sometimes it would do this 15 times across the city (not fun in heavy traffic) until I got home, while on another day I could drive 300 km with nothing. I did some research on this site and got a cooler and an FSD. Took the plug off the old FSD, hooked 'er up and not a problem since. My FSD didn't come with a resistor so I ordered a #5 from ebay..some people say you need em, some don't, but I figured it couldn't hurt. I'm glad this website is here and everyone is so helpful. If your truck is doing this odds are good this is the problem. Thanks.
Richard

cryodrene

11-26-2007, 10:43

A little over a month ago I purchased this after market PMD. It has worked like a charm so far. I relocated to PMD to a different location as well. I will giver an update later down the road to let you, guys know how it does. I am not recommending this site as of yet but if you guys know anything or have any feedback let me know.

beh612

12-16-2007, 17:54

I had trouble with my diesel shutting down. Changed the Oil sending unit and it has been 3 yrs with no other problems...... Also along the same subject I also had to run a new ground wire from near the Passenger side battery to the engine the braided ground had burnt all the fastening clips off. This new ground was done with a 12/2 romex house wire .... This also solved a shut down problem..... With the 6.5 TB diesel it doesnt hurt to pull the starter every year or slow or hard to start engine and have it redone this usually helps spin the engine a lot quicker....

chitop1

12-27-2007, 11:17

Hi, I need help. My truck is a 95 3500, it stalls only when its cold.
Most of the time it will start right up but will stall again. It will only run for about 30 to 40 seconds, then stall again. It will do this till I get the engine temp to 180 degrees, then it will run ok for the whole day. Sometimes it takes me 30 minutes to warm it up. Changed the feed pump and fuel filter already, still same problem.

ronale

04-12-2008, 02:52

Find fuel solenoid fuse 20A blown. Replaced fuse and tried to start engine.
Engine runs for a couple of seconds with rpm rising to 3000 (or more) and then shuts off again.Heavy grey smoke. No codes read in PCM. I am not able to read IP codes. Could this be a faulty FSD?

Ronale

DmaxMaverick

04-12-2008, 07:18

Not the FSD/PMD. Sounds like a bunch of air is getting in. Check your lift pump and its relay for proper operation.

Robyn

04-12-2008, 07:33

Definately be sure you are not getting air in the system.

The Blown fuse has me worried that there is something more serious going on here.
The fuse you replaced, was this for the fuel shutoff solenoid?
If the shut off solenoid goes down when the power is still on to the contols on the IP you can suck all the fuel from within the IP which would leave a void (air) the restart would be a bit bumpy but no biggy.

The solenoid is installed as a safety protocol in case there is another failure within the system. Without this device, a control failure could lead to a non controlable runaway.

The fuel shutoff solenoid may have a short in the coil. (little round unit on the front of the IP about 1" in diameter and 3 inches tall with wires coming out the upper side)

These can easily be replaced. Some times the air hat has to come off to get to the electrical plug though. Simply use a wrench or an allen key depending on the type yours has and unscrew the unit. (Wipe or blow off the area to get all dirt away) Make sure the large spring stays in the IP. Screw in the new solenoid, plug in and poof, all done.

I have had a go round with a PMD that did the scream and die thing.

I was testing some used PMD's that I got from a local shop that just replaces every one when they do a rebuild on a pump.

I was using my dually for the test and it runs great. I swapped in one PMD and the engine started, stubbled and then screamed with loads of smoke and then died.

I am not sure of exactly what goes on in the PMD to cause this but I have seen it first hand so I know it can happen.

Its an easy trick to swap in a fresh PMD and see what happens.

The New DTECH units are starting to get a good reputation.

I would definately sort out why the fuse was blown.

Possibly replace solenoid just because

Try a restart and go from there.

No codes on an OBD II system is fairly well indicative of an issue that the PCM is not actually controlling "Shut off solenoid"

The PMD can still cause issues and not trip a code even on an OBD II.

My bet is that your shut off solenoid has a short and caused the issue and the resulting "dry IP" resulted in the no fuel and subsequent wierd running and dieing.

Keep us posted

Best

Robyn

ronale

04-12-2008, 10:56

Thanks for reply.

The fuse replaced is in fuse-relay center underhood named 20A FUEL SOL.
According to electrical drawings the fuse is in same circuit as engine shut off solenoid (same as fuel shut off solenoid?) and FSD/PMD.
I measure the fuel shut off solenoid coil to be about 19 ohms, no short to chassis. I also applied 12V direct and I can hear it works.
This is leading me to the FSD/PMD in the same circuit. I will swap a known working PMD tomorrow.
Why do the engine speed up when starting without touching the accelerator and then shut off after 2 seconds with heavy grey smoke? Is there no control these 2 seconds of how much fuel is going to the cylinders?

I have not checked the fuel for air yet, I believe the fault is electrical.

Best

Ronale

DmaxMaverick

04-12-2008, 11:19

ronale

04-12-2008, 11:57

Thanks

Ok, will check the system for air, but I am still concerned why the fuse blowed when engine shut down first time. Engine would not start until I replaced the fuse.
What is the most possible cause for air in the system? Broken lines, feed pump?

best

ronale

DmaxMaverick

04-12-2008, 13:23

The most common cause of air is a loose or poorly sealed filter assy cap. That is, if the fuel lift pump isn't pumping. If the lift pump is fine, then the leak will be between the lift pump and the tank sender. If it only happens after the engine hasn't been run in a while, the system can drain back to the tank (through a leak or the injectors). Usually, if you have a leak significant enough to allow air into the system, it will also leak fuel externally under pressure. First, confirm you do or do not have air in the system, then go looking for the source, according to the conditions you are getting the air. If this has only happened once, and you can't repeat it, then there's no telling what happened. Most often, it will happen right after a filter change, or other reason to open the fuel system.

I think your blown fuse and the weird start up are two separate issues. Sometimes fuses blow for no reason, but you should still investigate. Perhaps something was shorted, but now isn't??? It happens, and it will usually return at some point. Could have just been a tired/old fuse. Other possibilities include bare insulation somewhere, only shorting under certain conditions.

Bnave95

04-12-2008, 15:20

One issue that I can relate to on my truck when this has happend though I had a code ,yet did not show at first was the crank sensor.
Is the crank sensor in this circuit?
At the time of runaway did it also rattle really bad?

ronale

04-12-2008, 23:53

As far as I can see, the crankshaft position sensor is powered from the PCM. It is not in the PMD/fuel shut off circuit.
Runaway happens each time I try to start and last for about 2 or 3 seconds until it shut down. The rpm needle exceeds 3000. It does not rattle.

JohnC

04-13-2008, 10:34

My guess is that either a failing fuel solenoid or fuel solenoid driver blew the fuse. Now either the fuel solenoid is stuck, giving full fuel, or the FSD is shorted, doing the same. When the PCM sees the engine is running away it drops the fuel cutoff solenoid which causes the stall.

Check the fuel solenoid first by applying battery power directly to it after removing the wire from the FSD. If it clicks, the problem may be the FSD. I would not try a new FSD until you comfirm the solenoid is not shorted as it may kill the new FSD too.

ronale

04-13-2008, 11:05

Fuel solenoid is tested, it clicks and no shortage measured.
A friend of mine has a known working FSD which I will try.
Will keep you posted.

Robyn

04-13-2008, 18:15

Contrary to common belief the PMD can cause a runaway.
I was testing several PMD's on My dually to see if they were ok and one would consistently cause the runaway.

To be safe I would replace the fuel shutoff solenoid and the PMD and the issue should go away.

Once the shutoff drops with the engine still on (Blown fuse) the engine can run the fuel out of the pump causing a no fuel (air in pump) condition that will make for some erratic running for a little bit but is should not race.

The other issue could possibly be a bad fuel solenoid in the IP.
Before I went to thios length I would try the shutoff and the PMD first.

best

Robyn

JohnC

04-14-2008, 09:51

Fuel solenoid is tested, it clicks and no shortage measured.

Just to be sure, you checked the Fuel Solenoid, on the back of the pump burried amongst the injector lines, not the Fuel Cutoff Solenoid, on the top of the pump, right?

ronale

04-14-2008, 12:30

Problem solved by swapping PMD. Engine is now running nice and easy.
To John:
I tested fuel cut off solenoid only since this is powered from the blown fuse together with the PMD.
I appreciate all help and suggestions.
I called a local dealer (Norway) for price of a new Stanadyne PMD . About $1300!!!! Asking if the price also included the IP, the answer was no.
Will try to find a dealer in the US, the Dtech PMD is maybe worth to try.
Thanks.

JohnC

04-14-2008, 13:02

Glad you got to the bottom of it.

The reason I asked about the Fuel Solenoid is that it is what the Fuel Solenoid Driver drives. If it shorts or sticks it can overload the FSD and cause it to fail.

ronale

04-14-2008, 14:13

Bnave95

04-15-2008, 04:21

http://www.kennedydiesel.com/detail.cfm?ID=134
Once you have your FSD,Cooler set up, use a harness to install in a cooler area.

enormiss

02-27-2009, 20:15

Hunting down a solution to my stalling.
Is there any changes over the years?
I see some fsd/pmd notations up to 99 and/or 01...
Is there any changes over the years or is a 6.5 a 6.5?
THANKS

suburbanK-2500HD

02-27-2009, 22:33

I will check the fuel solenoid also just to be sure there is no leakage to chassis.
Do you know the resistance value of this coil?
Cannot afford the new PMD to break down.
The new PMD (not mounted to cooler yet) became pretty hot after a few minutes of running. This is maybe normal without cooler? I am trying do adapt this PMD to a cooler from my junk box.

Hi (hallo)
I bought the PMD from a US dealer last summer and it works fine.
Look at the: http://www.thedieselpage.com/vendors/main.htm
Its almost insane prices i Norway for some parts.
The fuel cut off solenoid costs about 700usd in Norway..:confused:

Robyn

02-28-2009, 07:41

The PMD is the achilles heel of the electronic 6.5.

The new aftermarket PMD by Dtech mounted on a remote cooler away from engine heat is the only solution.

Standayne made some running changes along the way as far as the PMD goes but its basically the same bill of goods.

The latest ones are the best but I am sold on the Dtech units as they were designed to handle more heat and if remote mounted seem to be great.

The Dtech Pmd can be purchased at such places as ebay.

best

Robyn

enormiss

03-02-2009, 07:45

I should have worded my question better.
Is there any reason my 2002 would be different than than other 6.5's?
I just see mention of different cut off years, even the 6.5 thread lists up to 2000.
Just want to make sure I'm trouble shooting correctly ;)

1992-00 6.5TD - Discussion forum for the 6.5L engine.

Robyn

03-02-2009, 08:14

Same tune, just a different year is all.

Most folks dont realize thatn the 6.5 TD was made that late.

THE pickup and the Burbs were all done by 2000 except for a rare fitting.

You have an odd duck that was still fitted with the 6.5

Same stuff, same issues, same failures, same fix :)

Best

Robyn

enormiss

03-02-2009, 10:20

You have an odd duck

You have no idea LOL
THANKS for the info ;)

Mathew Leonard

03-04-2010, 22:29

Chased a similar problem on my 94 6.5 c3500 for a fair while. Relocated PMD, replaced wire harness to PMD and monitored the vehicle forever. Check engine light would randomly come on with code 18 (optic sensor)and go into limp home mode or truck would just shut down.

I ended up pulling the pump and checking the optic sensor. Found there was a small split in the sheild linking the optic to the circuit board which was allowing diesel up into the circuit board. There is also an update on the sensor as the new version has extra support around the harness as it comes out of the circuit block. Obviously not the first time this has happened if they changed the design.

Originally was hesitant to check the sensor as I was told by many reputable 6.5t specialists and they stated they have never seen an optic sensor fail. You can replace them yourself, when you remove the top cover just remember to scribe a reference line into the mounting bore that the retainer sits on so you can put the sensor back in the same spot. Make sure everything is clean and be careful of the degree plate.

Mathew

rtphillips370

05-10-2010, 20:17

Howdy Robyn and gang,

"I'm baacckk" lololol been enjoying my 1999 C3500 with the mods I learned from here a couple of years ago, at least till this past weekend. Driving her down the highway it bucked, stalled kicked etc till I let off of the gas, lit back up, then stalled etc. The usual as describerd by many members in the past twelve pages of this thread.

I replaced the PMD 4 years or so ago and it has less than 20K miles / maybe 100 hours at a guess on itas I only use it in the summer to pull my fifth wheel. Anyways, I have a FSD cooler and just ordered a new PMD and the 72" extention connector from Kennedy to replace what I think is the problem, a bad PMD.

My question is, once I install the FSD cooler with the new PMD and "if" the problem persists, what else would I look at? Truck has 167k miles now but only gets 2k of miles per year use at the most...

Thanks a head of time...

Lug

07-20-2010, 13:50

Add another possible fix. 94 K2500 Suburban. At 55-60 mph Stalling out and then relighting by itself (for almost 100 miles) until speed was below 35 mph and then no relight on coast and wouldn't start at all. Ended up shotgunning a different fuel shutoff solenoid at it even though the coil was energizing and you could feel a click when the key was turned. Now it starts and runs.
Justin

Update: Spoke to soon. Went for a test drive this afternoon and it didn't even make it a block. So a funky fuel shut off solenoid was not my fix this time. Waiting on another pmd.
Justin

Robyn

07-20-2010, 15:27

I have seen the stanadyne PMd's fail in less than 20K miles even when mounted on a cooler.

The DTECH PMD was designed to withstand a much higher operating temperature.

Relocating to a cool spot is the only way to fly but, the DTECH virtually eliminates the failure problems with the PMD.

Missy

anp4god

09-21-2010, 22:08

Yukon6.2

09-22-2010, 07:34

Hi
I had a Dtec fail after very little use,it is in my tow truck which dosn't get used very much,probley less than 2000 miles.It was mounted on a remote heat sink.Looking back i believ that it had issues right out of the box.
Stanadyne had plenty of time to build a better PMD,but never bothered till a fairly reliable aftermarket one was avalible.
If you have a EFI pump,keep a spare PMD with you at all times.I'v only had my EFI truck for a little over a year and had trouble with both the stanadyne and the aftermaket PMD.
Take your chances with either,the time will come that you will have to replace it.
Thomas

More Power

09-22-2010, 11:59

Hi
I had a Dtec fail after very little use,it is in my tow truck which dosn't get used very much,probley less than 2000 miles.It was mounted on a remote heat sink.Looking back i believ that it had issues right out of the box......

Thanks for the report. What symptoms did your engine experience when the module failed? How was D-Tech (or the vendor you used) to deal with, when getting a replacment?

Jim

bangskl

01-29-2013, 10:20

I replaced ANNOTHER failed black Stanaydyne PMD (that was mounted on a remote cooler) with the new grey "bulletproof" PMD 25 months ago.

Guess what? The "bulletproof" PMD just bit the bullet!! I got just over two years and UNDER 6,000 miles out of it! This is getting old and expensive!

Does ANYONE know of a real, longterm solution for the PMD problem? that is other than replacing the truck, which I can not afford. I'm desperate!

I'm retired, my wife's disabled and I'm her caregiver; so we are living on a very meager budget (just far enough the poverty line that we do not qualify for ANY assistance).

I really need this truck but, I need it to be reliable.

Any suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Ken

Lug

01-29-2013, 18:56

The last time mine was doing this it ended up being a marginal connection of the computer power lead on the firewall terminal strip. Heat and vibration would cause just enough voltage drop going to the computer to cause the 5 volt signal to the pmd to drop below its minimum voltage and would shut the fuel off. Removed the terminals, cleaned the connections, and reinstalled with dielectric grease to keep the nasties out.

Yukon6.2

01-29-2013, 21:32

[QUOTE=

Does ANYONE know of a real, longterm solution for the PMD problem? that is other than replacing the truck, which I can not afford. I'm desperate!

Thank you,
Ken[/QUOTE]
Hi Ken
I belive the only solution to the PMD problem is to bite the bullet and convert to a manual pump.
Now this becomes complicated if you have the auto trans.
There was a member on here that had a book he put out to do the conversion,i belive his name was Bobby Martin.
I have a 98 that has a manual trans,i have all the parts to convert,just no time.But the next time i have a problem that i can't solve without more$$,it will get the manual pump.
Good luck
Thomas

a5150nut

01-29-2013, 22:31

Bangski,

I hope your PMD ground is still attached to the IP.

Have you cleaned all ground connections yet? Cluster on right head, battery cables, ect. ?

Are you usiing any kind of contact patch or greese between the PMD and cooler?

Where is your remote location?

Just a few questions for starters.

Yukon6.2

01-30-2013, 19:13

Ken
I meant to say the only real solution is the conversion.
There could be other things that might be causing yours to die prematurly.
I'm old school and don't really take to computers,we are just wired different,the one thing i looked for when i bought the 98 was the manual so i could do the swap.
a5150nut has some good items to check if you havn't yet.
Good luck
Thomas

nealpellecchia

02-09-2013, 08:56

I feel like a professional on this subject because I have fixed stalling problems on my truck on 4 seperate occasions.

The first time was the ignition harness that was mentioned earlier. When mine went out it would stall while driving and no dash lights would come on. I could work the key switch back and forth til the dash lights came on and it would start right up. New ignition harness and problem solved.

The second time was the infamous PMD/FSD. When mine went out it would stall while driving and sometimes start right back up, sometimes I would have to crank on it for a while. New PMD/FSD and problem solved.

The third time was the also infamous OPS. It would only stall shortly after restart when the truck had been driven and shut down for a short time period and would require some cranking to get it going again. New OPS and problem solved.

The fourth time was the in-line fuel lift pump that assists the injection pump. Symptoms were serious hiccups under acceleration and stalling after startup with lots of cranking to get it going again. My lift pump sounded like it was working fine (humming when the key was turned forward and when the truck was running) but all it was doing was making noise and not pumping any fuel. New fuel lift pump and problem solved.

I don't know how to explain it but I love the truck. My next truck will be a 6.5 also. I guess because I know the engine so well that I feel like I can diagnose and fix almost anything on it now. Good luck with your problem!

Ok, my 1993 6.5 has a severe suction when you take off the "new" vented gas cap. The others too. It didn't have this before the last few mos. or I would have noticed it I think. Well when empty it's always like normal right? Anyway I've fixed suction leaks at the fuel mgr., top return hose, new hoses and clamps in between. It's run like a champ! with the higher fuel pressure. And then dogged 2.5 hrs. into a trip, with even a backfire. I pulled over and loosened the cap...left it loose, Then it takes fuel normally again. The best answer I've gotten is that it's a symtom of a clogged sock; that high suction. Is this true?? Before I spill for a injector pump I want to cover everything. Air is coming in again. Stalled cold starting and hot starting. Both require bleeding the air out of the system. Tank is suspect. Clogged bi-pass valve? holes in lines back there?? Anybody know some stuff about this area?

More Power

03-03-2014, 11:33

Stanadyne Corp.
SERVICE LETTER 328R2 dated February 20, 2014

Stanadyne is changing the warranty coverage on DS Pump Mounted Drivers effective with PMD kits sold from March 1, 2014 forward. From that date forward, PMD kits 35976 and 40736 sold over the counter or not installed on the pump per the specification will be covered for a period of 30 days, unlimited miles. In addition, the warranty for PMD’s sold over the counter and/or improperly installed is limited to 1 free replacement PMD during the 30 day warranty period. Suspect PMD’s do not have to be returned to Stanadyne (unless we specifically request them for analysis) but as before, the proof of warranty documents must be emailed to warranty@stanadyne.com

The 2 years, unlimited miles coverage will continue to apply to complete new DS pumps with the PMD installed at the factory (and installed on the engine that way), and to replacement PMD’s that are installed on the pump to specification by the Authorized Dealer (and installed on the engine that way).

More Power

03-07-2014, 13:51

Ok, my 1993 6.5 has a severe suction when you take off the "new" vented gas cap.

I suspect you meant diesel cap, but it's helpful that everyone knows that there is a big difference between a fuel tank cap made for a gas powered truck versus a 6.5 diesel truck. You must specify a "diesel" fuel cap when buying a replacement.

According to GM, a diesel fuel cap should vent when internal fuel tank pressure exceeds 2-psi or 1" vaccum. Gas caps are generally not vented, which would create huge vacuum as fuel in drawn down in the tank.

Jim

Firstoneman

07-21-2015, 23:20

Greetings:
I have a 94 Suburban, auto trans. Drove this from Cali to Michigan Jan 2015. During the trip I developed a stall problem leaving Denver. But it restarted and I went on my way. Later it also gave me a check engine signal at higher speeds (70-73mph), slow down 5mph and the light went out. Sometimes it would show up at 65mph - but go away just by letting off accelerator. I did have some bucking, like not enough fuel, when climbing a few grades leaving Cali towards Utah and in Colorado. I made it to Michigan. Once I got here, I had a situation where it would start in the parking lot and stall after about 12 secs of running. It kept doing this for about 10 tries. I went home for the evening, headed back the next day and started it up and it kept running - headed back home only ¼ mile away. Made it. After that it stranded me in another lot. I had to travel out of US for 7 months so it sat there. I haven't tried to start it since I returned because it is 2.5 hours away. I've read a number of posts and I think it is either a lift pump, PMD/FSD, or maybe even the fuel solenoid. In this thread, and the sticky on the PMD, I do not see much in recent years on the matter.

I'm going to buy some parts - that way, when I do go to that part of the State, I can fix it. I am tempted to just try the PMD/FSD but I don't want to short it if it's fuel solenoid. What brand PMD is recommended these days? Also, how about the fuel solenoid…what brand is best? Is the fuel solenoid the same as the "fuel cut-off solenoid"? If they are separate products what is good brand for the "fuel cut-off solenoid"? And what brand for a lift pump? Thanks for help. This has been a learning curve and a good experience so far.

Cheers!
David

Lug

07-22-2015, 19:29

I would bet on the PMD. Unfortunately the only way to really eliminate the PMD is to put one in and see if the problem goes away. Also check your grounds and power connections. The 6.5 tends to be voltage sensitive. The first time My 94 was doing this I bought a Heath relocation PMD and that worked for several years. The next time it started to do this it turned out to be the power connections on the firewall terminal strip were not tight enough and had corrosion buildup. A quick and cheap shotgun shell is to take those connections off (one post at a time) and clean them up and reinstall them. Use some sort of grease on them to seal the terminals from further corrosion. I used Dow Corning DC-4.
Justin

strykerAKAmack

11-29-2015, 18:08

When my pmd failed I replaced it with a DTech pmd , been running fine ever since .

Firstoneman

11-30-2015, 12:52

Greetings.
Well, got the notice today that a new msg came into the thread, thought I'd look at it for fun. Realized I never reported outcomes (though a very observant person might've noticed that I have an Accurate Diesel PMD listed in my mod list).
Anyhow…that's what I did. I changed out the PMD. And voila…nothing. Wouldn't start, and there it was the sweet fragrance of diesel…arghh. Opened hood smell diesel, can't see any. Nada. Well, I tried to start again. Then had wife try to start and I see a leak in hose at IP pump fitting. Whew. Must be that when I removed the original PMD plug to attach the relocation harness I jostled the fuel line and it being brittle decided to crack. Got new hoses, rid myself of previous owner mod in that line and it started right up. Then decided to change fuel filter. That was a research project all of it's own due to previous owner mod and which I finally resolved. Getting it primed was hassle and when I found the info on how to jumper pins on OBD-1 to activate the lift pump I was happy. Now I have a nice setup for fuel filtration. Only thing I want to do is remove a 1st owner filter just after tank on the lower frame - seems unnecessary.
Per previous suggestions…I looked at as many electrical fittings as I could and no corrosion could be found and all seemed solidly seated.
Will have to do something about the position of the new PMD for winter driving - it's on the inside of bumper near air scoop at moment - ripe for salt exposure and subsequent corrosion.
Thanks for all the suggestions. Everything worked out happily. Hoping it will continue so. Enjoying the diesel experience.
Cheers!