3054 CAT or 4045 Deere???

[xjs53v12]

Hello all, new guy here. In the last few months I've looked at all the powerplants that could be shoehorned onder the hood. I should say, other than Dmax, 6BT, 6.5 and the ol 6.2. Any one of these will do the work and play I do. But, it would be way cool to pull up to another diesel guy, have him think...that sounds wierd. Then he asks, watcha got in there? You reply, a CAT........ very cool.

The Cat 3054T is plentiful and will fit under the hood. It's rated for up to 122HP with 4.0L. The 4045 JD is a little taller, 115 HP and 4.5L. On both, some turbos came side mounted and some top mounted. The side mount is whats needed for clearance.

Now, here's my thinkin. The Cummins 4BT is around the same size and displacement. They have been proven to make 300-400HP, get 25mpg and "I'm told" used as a daily driver. Why not hotrod a Cat or Deere? I'm confident you could get 300HP out of either of these. But for how long. All I'm looking for is 250-275HP for my daily ride. Would it hold 275HP reliably?

Has anyone ever played with one of these? How does the crank and rods compare to the 4BT? Head studs too? I'd love to have them side by side for size/beefyness comparison.

Any thoughts or input?

[gophergunner]

i like the thought of this too. i've often wondered how well a john deere motor would work in a pickup truck:rolleyes:

but the weight issue has come to my mind.

[xjs53v12]

Yep, weight is a big deal. I'm trying to get around having to do anything to the frame if I can. Thats just more work. The John Deere 4045 is 1000lbs and the Cat is under 700lbs. Most of the other engines "small enough to fit" that are availible, Detroits and the Cat 3304 are too heavy for my taste.

I'm still just in the planning phaze and would like to get by with the least amount of modifing to the truck as I can. This will be a simple bolt-up in the end, or thats the plan. And yes I will be making patterns for all parts I will have to fab-up.

1. I will need a trans adapter SAE type to GM auto and custom fab motor mounts. I still need to contact a transmission "guy" about adapting the torque converter to the flywheel/flex plate.

2. Fuel lines and lift pump will need to be sorted out.

3. Throttle cable and an emergency stop cable if the pump has provisions.

4. A/C and power steering pump mounts will take a little time to get aligned. I will convert to hydra-static type brake booster. A vacuum pump is just one more thing you would have to find a place to mount. Both engines have an Aux drive, so there is potential there also. Just havn't had a chance to look at them closely.

5. The cooling lines should be simple enough. The heads (of each) seem to have tons of differant variations of coolant exits.

6. I'll keep all senders/sensors GM. I still will have to work out a signal generator for the tach.

7. A Dodge aftercooler will be fitted it the truck.

8. Depending on the exhaust manifold that comes with the engine, I might have to build a custom unit to get the right turbo location. Stainless of coarse.

I've been talking with an injection shop, they tell me a pump, marine injectors and a bigger custom turbo is no problem. They gonna get back with me on a price. I'm lookin for a engine locally to start monkeying with. I hope to find a good used one cheap. A new one is an option, but its going to get a full race balance and port matching. I'd rather not tear into a new engine. Cant wait to start!!!

[gophergunner]

performance, high-revving JD engine in a pickup.........that would be sweet:eek:

1000 lbs isn't bad, isn't a 5.9 cummins around 1000 lbs???

[xjs53v12]

I've found out some interesting info on the Cat 3054 (aka Perkins 1104C). This is all coming from a diesel mechanic that i feel knows what he's talking about. He's been doing it for 35 years and has built many hotrod or race type marine engines, a few striped down 6V92's. He tells me that the 1104C has a 100% crank failure rate if you try to get any more than the rated HP out out of the engine. Laughing......he said I was more than welcome to try, but he had already done it. the cylinder deck is also an "open" type, not good for high power. The liners tend to float around, then start leaking. They will spin well past the rated RPM all day also (safely). It's a super engine if you only need around 125HP. I guess Perkins never saw fit to improve on the cranks.......... I have yet to priced a custom billit crank, its on the list of things to do.

Now, the new 1104D or 4.4 ACERT is a joint effort between Perkins and Cat. Apparently these are a new design from the inside out. And the cranks are bullit proof. He's worked on them, but so new that no one has tweeked one yet. And I'm sure one would cost more than my truck.

So that just leaves the ol John Deere for now. I'm gonna make a trip to the dealer next week to get a closer look. I'll keep fishin for information.

[JeepSJ]

Now, here's my thinkin. The Cummins 4BT is around the same size and displacement. They have been proven to make 300-400HP, get 25mpg and "I'm told" used as a daily driver.

Please show me one of these legendary 400hp 4bt engines. 400ft/lbs yes...400hp, gotta say no. At least not on something that is going to live a long life.

[xjs53v12]

Here's the link to Diesel Power Mag. I think it was in an issue a month or so ago.

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/ford/0709dp_1966_ford_bronco/index.html

After reading, I called Ken Diaz the guy that helped set this thing up. Got the inside scoop. As I recall the owner drives it often. Ken has one in a truck and seems to love it. I was more inquiring about the potential of the Cat or Deere, so I have much info on the 4bt. He would be the guy to talk to on Cummins stuff.

Hope this helps.

[Ben Rotella]

My dad's working on putting a 3054 in a Scout.

[xjs53v12]

Things have slowed down on the search for the CAT or JD project. To many things going on, work honey-do list and current 6.2 conversion. But its not dead. I looker at a Deere 4024T last week. Its nice and small and would work great in a S-10 or small truck. She was only rated at 66hp, I dont think it will haul a full-size 4x4 around very well.... Also small enough to fit in alot of cars too.

Ben, do you happen to have any picks??? Would love to see!

[johndeertruck]

hey i saw your post and i am in the process of putting a john deere 4.5 litre 4 cylinder diesel, i think its the 4045, in a 1992 dodge ram 150. i am trying to find a clutch plate and adapter plate to hook up 2 a transmission. i was told of a place called North American Clutch and driveline. they have helped me out a little on a clutch plate, but i'm looking for more options if you have anything you found some help would be appreciated.

[xjs53v12]

Hello all,

I wish I could help with the bellhousing and clutch. No such luck... I have looked for info and parts or a combo of parts, with no real success. I've been to John Deere and looked through there bellhousing catalogs. Nobody does this kinda thing so they look at you like your crazy when you tell then what your doing.

I dont have a engine yet so dont know which bellhousing I will wind up with. The one SAE 3 I looked at has room to play with, i.e. I wont have to cut down or "make" a new bell. My plan was to simpley make a adapter plate to bolt a GM trans to the SAE 3 bell (was also used on the Cummins 4BT if I can find one). Then, mill/build a spool piece to adapt the chevy flexplate to the JD flywheel. There looks to be about 3-4 inches to make up between the flywheel and flex plate. Depending on the bell/flywheel configuration, I may have to cut a access port in the bell to get to the flex plate bolts.

With the auto trans this is far easier. A standard will need a bell that will get the trans up close to the flywheel. I think this will mean a shorter bell, I'm not sure. Its gonna be fit, cut, refit, redo, weld, cut more, fit again, start over, trial and error thing....

Now, I have heard someone, at one time made street sweepers with JD engines and automotive 4 speeds, dont know what kind yet. I'm talkin to a few salvage yards now. We'll see what turns up.

NEWS FLASH

***I just found Phoenix Casting & Machining, Inc. www.phxgrp.com***Maybe they would have some insite for you. They have a ton of adaptor listed. Give them a call, ask for Bill. These guys just made life easy for me!

[More Power]

performance, high-revving JD engine in a pickup.........that would be sweet:eek:

1000 lbs isn't bad, isn't a 5.9 cummins around 1000 lbs???


There are a couple of things to keep in mind... The engine must be the same model year or newer than the chassis, and the engine must have been an on-road engine that was emissions certified by the EPA. Engines originating from a forklift, gen-set, loader or tractor wouldn't pass muster for a legal swap - according to the EPA. However, your state might not care or might have an altogether different set of regs covering an engine swap. ;)

Jim

[Mjr Minor]

I just received my 4045t Turn key and it was out of a Genie Telehandler/rough terrain forklift. I love it and it comes with radiator to flywheel.

I am interested in quite a bit of stuff that you are doing as well. I am putting mine in my Jeep TJ with full width one tons. I am going to back it with a NV4500 and Np205 or a STRONG auto that I have to decide on. http://www.myjeepsite.com/file/pic/gallery/1451.jpg

http://www.myjeepsite.com/file/pic/gallery/2476.jpg

I was going to do the V3300T that I have but I think it is too small for what I want to do. I hear from alot of my guys that I work with that say this motor is bullet proof even turned up.

[tpitt]

Cat bought out Perkins in 1997.


Now, the new 1104D or 4.4 ACERT is a joint effort between Perkins and Cat. Apparently these are a new design from the inside out. And the cranks are bullit proof. He's worked on them, but so new that no one has tweeked one yet. And I'm sure one would cost more than my truck.

So that just leaves the ol John Deere for now. I'm gonna make a trip to the dealer next week to get a closer look. I'll keep fishin for information.[/QUOTE]

[crashz]

Now, I have heard someone, at one time made street sweepers with JD engines and automotive 4 speeds, dont know what kind yet. I'm talkin to a few salvage yards now. We'll see what turns up.



Elgin "Pelican" street sweepers used a JD four cylinder and TH350 or 400 at one time. They also used a GM4 speed (NP465?). My father had the four speed model.

[cafeeney131]

Hey I got A 1985 Chevy Full size and i want to put a diesel back in it but i dont want to put a 6.2 back in i want a caterpiller to swap in but im not sure which one to do any one have some suggestions