Starter system issues

[DieselCrawler]

I feel kinda dumb, even posting this, it's not that I don't know what to do, it's just frustrating...
K-30 has been starting slow for the past few weeks, maybe 2 months.... lifetime warrentee on starter, from AutoZone, acting just like the last one they replaced... just turning the motor over slower and slower... slap in a new starter about a week ago, nice fast starts for a few days... yesterday, back to even slower than it was when I changed the starter... batteries tested ok when I put in the starter, but they are old. In went new batteries, about $180 for a set of 2 off the shelves at Advance, good ones, the "Titainium" line... drop 'em in, starter is just as slow. GRRRRR!
Guess it's down to replacing the cables... I did check the connections at motor block grounds, battery post, all tight. I guess they must be corroded inside the crimped, factory style side post ends.
Unless my reman starter is junk?
I'll be trying new cables this afternoon, can't be much else....

FYI- the starter they gave me was a gear reduction style one, the one I took out was the older, direct drive style, if that makes any diffrence. All I could tell was it sounded diffrent, and worked, at first!
Thanks...
Greg

[john8662]

The direct drive starters are the quickest spinning starters for the 6.2, but often the remans aren't of good quality and fail.

The best direct drive starter I've found is packaged under Autolite, but I don't have the p/n handy, it's carried by the Checker/Kragen chain.

The gear reduction starter you're using should work pretty good, just don't forget to get the correct rear brace for that starter.

Good clean cables work wonders, there does get to be a point where you just gotta replace them though.

J

[DieselCrawler]

I'm gonna reuse my old cables, just going to use better ends... as an electrician, I have some set-screw type lugs we use for attaching wires to buss bars, I've found a few that should work. I'll cut the molded ends off the cables, install my new ends, with some anti-corrosion grease, and hope for the best.
I did have to make a diffrent brace for the back of the starter... spent an hour and a half measureing for just the right fit, up under the truck, gettin' my head smacked by springs, front diff, grease in my ear, etc, to make a brace out of a small chunk of 1/8" angle iron. Finished up, walked back into the garage, and there, on a motor I have on a stand, with out a starter on it, is just the brace I needed. It's great when I spend an hour and a half making what I could have taken off the other motor, and been done in 10 minutes!
I really hope I don't go thru all this just to find that the "new" starter is bad.... the one in there now is "duralast", from autozone... has a lifetime warrentee, is it worth it to try to get them to give me a direct drive, VS the gear reduction type?

Thanks... guess I'm gonna go get busy changing cable ends....

Greg

[Robyn]

The issue with the cables is that they corode inside where you cant see it.
The side terminal monsters are bad about it too.
The ends are soldered but only on the outer band of the cable and this leaves the core to corode.
The grounds at the block will also do it.
If you reuse the old cables cut them back just enough to get clean wire and solder on copper ends with enough heat and solder to fill all the strands and the copper end. Bolt the ends onto the batteries with a little white grease and you will be amazed at how well things will work.
The issue probably is the old cables are causing a brownout condition which just fries the new rebuilts in short order.

DO THE CABLES and call me in the morning :D

Good luck

Robyn

[DieselCrawler]

Update:

New ends, as a temp fix, week old reman starter still cranks slow...

Changed starters, put in a factory gear reduction one, out of a '89 6.2L (the one on the stand I coulda used the bracket from!) and whiz-bang, like-new fast starts again!

I'm gonna find the right ends (copper, heavy duty type) and some welding cable I have, and make up a really good set of cables, with soldered ends.

Any problem using the side posts if you have good ends on the cables, and use bolts and jam nuts? Or, I'll just get the top post ends that have the marine style 3/8" stud.

Also, I would guess the location of my ground leads going to the block leave something to be desired. I was/am using the double ended bolts/studs that hold my thermostat houseing/cross-over pipe to the heads. This bolt was lose in the head, on both sides. I intend to move the ground cable to it's own bolt, directly into the head, not one that does double duty as cross-over fastener. I assume all holes tapped into the ends of the heads are metric threads? This seems to be the easiest location to move them to, when I make the new cables.

Thanks all... I guess I need to say it, I've not said it enough in the past... it's nice to have a place to vent, share my thoughts and frustrations with others who have been in the same shoes as me... and to share ideas and expriances. Thanks for your time spent with my issues in mind, and reading my word-y posts!

Greg

[CleviteKid]

Sounds like you proved your theory that several Autozone starters in a row can be bad.

I, too, like the big old heavy straight-drive MT27 starter. Mine still starts my hot-rod in about 1/2 turn of the crankshaft - no computer that needs to warm up. First piston up to TDC from BDC gets a squirt from its injector, and it is off to the races.

Newer ain't necessarily better :D .

[DieselCrawler]

Clevite Kid: how true... I'm not so sure Autozone HAS a good starter to give me... went in today to trade out my new old one. Last time, they just gave me a starter. This time, they checked the one I brought in, and checked the new one in the box, before they gave it to me. NEW ONE WAS BAD!
So, I talk to the person in charge, he was as helpful as he could be, but his hands are tied. I flatly told him I want an extra to keep on my shelves, if what they are gonna sell me is junk, and is gonna need changed so offten. He is going to talk to his supervisor, and get me a name and phone number to dig into it further. It should be worth an extra starter for me if they want to keep me as a satisfied customer. We'll see what happens...
I'm really glad I had an extra starter... (see Dad, it IS worth having all my junk in the garage!)

Greg

[DieselCrawler]

After a few phone calls, it seems they WILL NOT give me an extra starter... (never really thought they would, but....) however, they are willing to give me a new starter (that's a given, I paid for a lifetime warrentee) and $120 to boot for my troubles... "mechanic's charges" as if I had someone else change it for me. What's the going rate for Sunday night starter changes? $120? Sounds good enough to me....

AutoZone -- sometimes junk starters, good customer service!

Th-Th-Th-Th-that's all folks.....

Greg

[twaddle]

Hi Greg,
Print out this thread and also take a note of the number of DP members, take it to the Autozone store and mention to the Guy in charge that "The Members" are watching, Hee Hee!!!

Good luck

Jim

[HammerWerf]

Greg,

Had a similar situation a few weeks ago. Starter kept getting slower. Posted here, and the general census was grounds. Started tracking down grounds, and found the pass. side battery side terminal connection was so corroded that it had isolated itself from the battery. Cleaned it up, and it's been good to go. Gotta replace the cable since the fluffy stuff is down into the strands.

Glad you found the cause of your slow starting.

HammerWerf

[DieselCrawler]

Got my new starter today, and the cash...

Tried to educate them on the diffrence between direct drive and gear reduction... they show the same part number for both! Some poor soul is gonna end up getting the wrong one, and leave the brace off the back just because the new starter is diffrent, but still bolts up and works... untill it breaks the bolts or worse yet, the block.

Asked the price of another starter, $170 w/core. Manager who was helping me said he'd get me a 10% plus discount off that, so I'm only $33 shy of having another to sit on my shelves...

Greg