Truck won't start- anyone have ideas???

[Tony J.]

Please skip down to my LONG story...

[ 04-07-2005, 04:44 AM: Message edited by: Tony J. ]

[charliepeterson]

Stick the tank through the fuel fill hole until it bottoms out. Now you siphon the fuel out. After this refill with good fuel, change the fuel filter and add an extra dose of fuel conditioner. After all this you should be good to go.

What happened? Did you get a load of gas?

[Tony J.]

Well, I guess I'll tell the WHOLE story. Over the past few weeks, I've noticed my truck taking a little extra time to start- cranking time that is. So, yesterday, I'm at work, and I hook up a 12v pump (new filter on pump, water separator also) to one of my batteries in my truck, so I can fill the tank from a barrel we have at work. It's Jet A, and myself and several others at work have run it many times with no problems. In fact, I personally watched this barrel (empty and clean) get filled from a helicopter 20 minutes before I filled my truck. There's nothing wrong with the fuel- they just won't put it back in the aircraft once removed. Anyway, the pump I was using was having problems, and so it took awhile to fill. I started worrying about killing my battery, so I started the truck for the remainder of the fueling. I drove home, shut it off, and 15 minutes later went to leave, and the cranking slowed and it wouldn't start. I put my trick charger on it for the night and went to bed. This morning, I got it started no problem. I heard somewhere that the jet fuel lacks some lubricating properties, so I dumped 12 oz of Marvel mystery oil (4 oz/10 gals. per the label), then went for a drive to mix it up in the tank a little- no problems. Later today, I went to start the truck, and it was hard to start (cranked a lot before firing), and would run for about 3 sec. and quit. I did this about 3 times, then when it started next time, I hit the pedal, and it stayed running, and even idled after that. Smoked a little for a couple seconds, then was fine. Soooo, then I decide to drive it to the car wash to degrease the motor a little. When I got there, my "water in fuel" light was on. So, at idle, I opened the drain and let it run for about 20-30 seconds. Went and checked light, it was out, truck started to sputter a little, so I shut it off. Sprayed the motor down, went to start and it wouldn't. I got it started once, but like before, it quit. Then, I proceeded to kill the batteries again by cranking it- not for very long either. So, I had the wife come with the other truck, tried to jump it, but it was going to have to charge all night with the puny cables I have, so we pulled it next door to Checker, and I went in and bought new batteries (we talked about it, and both of us have noticed it seems to take longer to start lately, and I'd heard diesels are finicky about starting when the batteries start to go, so I replaced them). Well, that brings us to now- it cranks like a mo-fo, will occasionally hickup like it's firing, then goes back to cranking and won't start.

There- I came clean. I'm an idiot. Any ideas what's wrong? HELP!

Is there something that needs to be done after having the batteries out? (flash computer or ???)

AAAARGGHHHHH!!!! :rolleyes:

[Tony J.]

bump

[Marty Lau]

Tony;

My first reaction is that you got contaminated fuel. With you cleaning the engine now you could have several issues. I wonder if you got some water in like the fuse block and you shorted out the lift pump or the OPS and no fuel is getting to the IP? Again it could be bad fuel too. I think I'd check and see if your lift pump is working for starts and then go from there.

[Tony J.]

I heard the lift pump this morning when I cranked it. It cranks fine, shudders occasionally like it wants to start, but won't. I just finished defueling it. I am right now going to pour 5 gals of fresh diesel into it and see what happens.

I took over 30 gals out of it- I hope I can dilute the fuel enough with this fresh stuff to make a difference...

Thanks for the feedback! I'll let you know what happens next.

[Tony J.]

UPDATE- Well, it started! After I put the 5 gals of fresh diesel in there, it took about 20 secs of cranking, but it lit off, and idles fine. Haven't driven it yet, but I will. Has a slight miss at idle, but with only 5 gals of good fuel, and probably a couple gals of the bad stuff still, I'm not surprised. What a relief- hopefully things stay good- better get to the gas station and put some more good fuel in it. Someone recommended a fuel conditioner. Is there anything readily available on the market right now (like at Checker/Schucks/Kragen/Autozone)that would be okay?

Thanks again for the help guys- it's nice having this resource in times of trouble.

[tom.mcinerney]

Tony-
I'd check the fuel filter housing, and examine some fuel in a clear glass from the drain valve up front. Did draining the valve turn off the water in fuel lamp?
My thought was as suggested above, that your lift pump crapped out, possibly debris fouling the check valves therein...or possibly other failure mechanism. The fact that a LP clicks doesn't guarantee it is working. Test LP pressure with a gauge on your filter drain, then proceed. You might want to crack an injector union nut and see what fluid is there when cranking. Check all fuses, too.

[Tony J.]

When I first bought the truck, my lift pump wasn't working due to a bad OPS switch. When the lift pump wasn't working, and I'd crack the water drain valve, it would suck air IN and kill the motor. Once I replaced the switch and the LP was working, it would actually push fuel OUT the drain tube. Yesterday when I drained the water valve with the truck idling, it pushed fuel out, so I'm presuming the LP is working.

[tom.mcinerney]

OK, that's the basic LP test, good.

CRC, Chevron, Power ~, Stanadyne all make good additives . The Helm FSM (and, more important, Dr Lee) cautions against the use of additives incorporating alcohol...so read labels and avoid alcohol.

Might be good idea to change out filter after a couple thousand miles , or at least go thru the filter bowl drain-drill a few times.

[Marty Lau]

Hey Tony;
Glad you got your truck on the road again. If you do the Jet-A bit again add some power service and a bit of 2 cycle oil it's made to be burned, Marvels may work. I use to use waste Jet-A in Kero Heaters in my garage when I used to fly.

[JohnC]

Originally posted by 16ga SxS:
Hey Tony;
Glad Marvels may work. I fight this all day long in my aviation business. Marvel Mystery oil is mainly flavored mineral spirits. If you need a solvent, it's a good choice. Otherwise it's not much of a lubricant. Guess that's the mystery...

;)

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
We used to burn Jet-A in Hummers/Cucvs all the time in the Marines. Never experienced any problems. For an additive I use the Stanodyne and FPPF+8 mixed with a little 2stroke synthetic. I know that really sounds like some kinda snake oil voodoo potion but it works for me :D I think if it was my rig I would try to make one full tank work and then do a filter change and be sure sure to clean the bowl. If you want to borrow a test gauge for the lift pump I have one set up by Bill Heath that I'll loan you for the price of shipping. It works pretty good and only takes about 15min and you know for sure what your pump is doing.
Let me know....

[CareyWeber]

Originally posted by Dvldog 8793:
Howdy
We used to burn Jet-A in Hummers/Cucvs all the time in the Marines. Never experienced any problems.All the DOD tactical 6.2/6.5's use hardend injection parts so the lack of lube is not an issue. ;)

Carey

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
Got me! I should have stated that we blended JetA with Diesel. It seemed to DRAMTICALLY lower the gell point.
Then again "we was just dumb Jar-heads doins what we was told" (slang accent added) :D
L8r
Conley

[Marty Lau]

Originally posted by Dvldog 8793:
Howdy
Got me! I should have stated that we blended JetA with Diesel. It seemed to DRAMTICALLY lower the gell point.
Then again "we was just dumb Jar-heads doins what we was told" (slang accent added) :D
L8r
Conley Yupp makes sense since -50F is not uncommon at altitude in north climates in winter.

Yes sir 30 years ago I coodn't spall pileit thne I became one. I piled it in small piles and big piles. tongue.gif