HELP no start

[oldmechanic]

a little history 1994 6.5 td non egr ,owner said that it started running rough & would not idle. had another "mechanic" look at it ,told him that #8 piston was burned so he removed right head nothing looked bad after i got it i removed left head & checked pistons ,all ok very little cyl wall wear, had heads worked & reassembled engine with new 6.2 injectors & ag 60 glow plugs . would not start , searched forums & ordered books ,checked all wiring & grounds .still no start ,removed ip & installed my spare mechanical ip started & runs good .
took ip to shop for check they found transfer adj. screw orfice plugged they cleaned & replaced that & ran on test stand & every thing else was good . reinstalled ip ,after 4 hrs of cranking & bleeding inj lines it finally started idled a little rough other wise ran ok .
ran it long enough to warm up & shut off. it would not start again, loosened inj lines & it was not delevering any fuel .when it is cold it will start if you loosen inj lines till you see fuel about 3 min of cranking but after it warms up it will not start again . every thing is within spec acording to the trouble shooting & repair guide .begining to think i need to take ip back to shop . i am doing all this with intake & turbo removed for ease of access, it should start that way but not run very well thanks Cecil

[Robyn]

You can run them fine with turbo an manifold off. Just be sure to keep loose things like rags away from the ports "Slurp" :eek: The engine should run fine other than noise and smoke.

Sounds to me like you may have a bad PMD (Black box on the side of the IP)

Be sure the fuel shut off is working too. It should click enough to feel it when you have someone cycle the ignition switch on and off.

Used DS4 pumps can be problematic.

If all else take the sucker back and make them run it again. You should not need to crank these all the long.
Pre prime the fuel system to get fule to the IP then remove the glow plugs and let it spin untill you have fuel mist.
Install the glow sticks and it should pop rightoff.

Also be sure your Lift pump is working right.
On the 94 there is a small junction box over by the AC accumulator can
Inside you will fine a fuse assembly that is on the far outside of that box. The fuse assembly blugs into a little holder. Undo that thing and the fuse is in the end of the little harness. Touch the fuse end where its has the bare notch to the large hot lug in that junction panel. The fuel pump should run with a whirrring noise.

The DS4's like fuel pressure and if your not getting any this could cause issues, BIG TIME.
The shops test the pumps on a non flamable fluid and if your lift pump is not working you will crank till the cows come home to get fuel up top.

Check the lift pump first.
With the LP running you should get a nice stream of fuel from the hose going to the IP

The LP is powered off the Ign switch for start up and then switches to the Oil pressure switch once the rig starts.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

Robyn

[oldmechanic]

Robin
have jumper wire to LP pressure &volume within specs , have proper voltage to connectors going to Ip, solenoid clickswhen connecting & disconnecting wiring, all grounds check good
have tried another PMD with no improvement. I have reinstalled the mechanical pump & it starts & runs good.will install electronic & play with it more later this week
thanks for the response Cecil

[Robyn]

If the IP checks out OK the second time I would start casting an evil eye on the PCM.

Could very well have a computer issue.

The other possibility is a sour or intermitent issue with the fuel solenoid in the IP.
In as much as we would love to think these electronics can be easily diagnosed it can at times be a PITA.

If the IP comes back "AS GOOD" and it still dont work see if you can beg borrow or otherwise gain access to a Known good PCM. Swap them out temporarily and see if it runs ok

The TDC offset may not be the same but the worst case scenario is some codes.

If you have to change the PCM you will need to get the TDC offset done with a tech tool.
The PCM needs to come from a similar rig. (94-95 1500 ect ect) OBD1

Good luck and keep us posted

Robyn

[oldmechanic]

reinstalled ds4 ip on pos took about 5 min of cranking to get fuel to injectors took 45 second of cranking to start after tightening lines ,ran it long enough to warm up .&
took 20 seconds of cranking to restart , turned ip all the way left to advance timing
will now start consisently with 10 seconds of cranking but that seems to be to long compaired to way it started with mechanical pump & the way my other 2 start.
I have got 2 other pmd's & 1 ecu swaping them around does not change any thing
don't know what i did to make it start when warm
any thoughts will be apprecated
thanks Cecil

[Robyn]

This is one of those that we all dread having to deal with.

If you have swapped the PMD and the ECM then it comes down to either a wiring issue on the truck or the IP iteself.

I have seen a couple Ip's that supposedly ran fine on the test bench but were in fact no good.

Can you get your hands on a known good DS4 pump and swap into the mix to rule out any issues there??

You should not need to crank one of these that much to get it to go.
Once the air is bled out they should take no more than a couple seconds of cranking to get started.

[gmctd]

Does WTS illuminate with key on?

Does SES illuminate with key on?

Does SES remain on when engine is running?

[rustyk]

I ran into a similar issue on my Ford van with the 6.9L (IH) NA engine. The cause was cracks in the fuel return lines which allowed air into the injectors when the engine was stopped. There was no fuel leakage apparent, so this was diagnosed with Kentucky Windage....

[oldmechanic]

Does WTS illuminate with key on?

Does SES illuminate with key on?

Does SES remain on when engine is running?

yes to all but,I am still playing with it & have not reinstalled the intake or turbo & that would cause the SES to remain on while running

[gmctd]

Reconnect the MAP and IAT sensors, see whatcha got - you can even lay the intake in place - may rattle a little, but won't hurt, none

Any DTC's from real failure are important at this stage

[oldmechanic]

got a chance to work on the pos again. hooked up sensors & cleared the dtc's.
after not being started for 4 or 5 days it started after 10 seconds of cranking
let it run until temp started rising ,shut down & tried to restart would not start again
it has set dtc's 13,19 ses stays on when running,have got 12V to solenoid

[gmctd]

I'd suspect wiring\connections for those codes together, but either will cause long or no start - for DTC13 unscrew the ESO solenoid, reconnect it, turn on the IGN switch, make sure it fully retracts - you can use the connector as a switch to make sure it functions at each application of power - if ok, DTC19 points to the Crank Position Sensor - no viable test for that except substitution with a known good one - again, I'd check wiring\connectors\grounds first

[oldmechanic]

thanks to every one for their help finally got this POS to start & run after replacing crank position sensor it cranks easy & runs down highway good, does not idle as smooth as my other 2 but it is acceptable thanks again
Cecil

[Robyn]

Glad to hear you got the rig fixed. :D

Always nice when plan comes together