Trying to reinstall my rebuit engine, NOT FUN

[robscarab]

Well, yesterday morning I announced to my kids that our great cross country adventure is about to begin..the new engine goes in today! I knew I was in deep trouble when my five year old started loading his brand new Sponge Bob fishing equipment into the box! At this point I was still letting the air out of the tires to get the engine to clear the front clip... Well by sundown I had three little boys sitting on the driveway pleading for me to go and buy a new truck! We had planned on departing no later than August 1 and its a 4 day drive to get to my Boat on Lake Ontario! The bottom line here is I need some help with instructions on how to set the engine in place. As far as I remember , it came out quite nicely, save the fuel line bracket seized bolts! I have decided to shut down and ask for a few pointers! I have been searching for a thread that gives a rundown on the installation procedure but no luck...Perhaps someone could send me a link related to this nasty job.

I have the turbo and both manifolds installed and it seems the pass. side manifold hits the tranny before I can slide it back enough to drop over the motor mounts? I have the tranny jacked all the way up maybe it should be down and then jacked up to meet the bellhousing after the motor mounts are pinned? HELP????

Well , I just went back out for another round and tomorrow I will take off the starter and try it. If that doesnt work than I will unbolt the motor mounts from the frame, drop the motor down, bolt it to the tranny, and then try to bolt the mounts back to the frame after the engine has been bolted up to the tranny?

Am I on the right track?

By the way , I am doing this alone, no wife and friends are working or on vacation!!

Thanks again,

Rob

[daustin]

It sounds like your installing the motor with the tranny still in place? I usually remove/install engine & trans together, i've found it's much easier that way IMO. What you might have to do is jack/move the tranny around some (loosen the tranny mount bolts a little to give you some fudge room) while your dropping the motor in to get the studs on the back of the motor into the holes in the tranny, then drop it down on the frame mounts. Be carefull doing this, these things are HEAVY!!! That might require 1 or both of the motor mounts to come off the motor. I know this will sound very red-neck, but i've used a 6' 2x4 for leverage when jockeying motors/trannys around during installs. Good luck.
Don

[Robyn]

Help is coming.. :D

Get the turbo, manifolds and starter off the engine. (you can bolt that stuff on later.

Auto tranny or stick??

Auto-- jack tranny up so the bell housing hit the top of the tunnel

Be sure the counter weight on the flex plate is at the bottom and have the converter lugs positioned so the match the position of the holes in the plate.
Converter slid back into tranny as far as it will go.
Sling the engine so it is slightly front end up.

You dont need to remove the mounts from the frame.
Lower engine in to the bay and a little wiggling should see it slide right down into place and the lineup dowels mate with the tranny.

I did my 94 Burb last summer and did the R&R myself mostly alone.

The exhaust manifolds, turbo and crossover can all be reinstalled after the engine is all bolted into place.

With all this stuff clear you can reach the front mount bolts as well as the oil cooler lines and the starter very easy.
Once you have the engine bolted in do the cooler lines, starter and such then once all the goodies on the bottom are done do the LH manifold then the RH and then the Turbo followed by the crossover pipe.

You can then proceed to the wiring, coolant hoses and other accessories up top. The fan and the shroud will be the last things you button up.

DID you preprime the oil system??

Helpful hint.
If you get the little beast ready leave the glow plugs out and roll the engine over on the starter until you get fuel spray out the glow plug holes.
This will make the start up much easier on you and the starter.

Good luck

A note. A manual tranny is about the same but be sure the clutch plate was piloted correctly so it will slide onto the input shaft of the tranny.

Robyn

[john8662]

The installation usually takes two people, one to watch and maneuver the engine and another to operate the engine crane.

How are you lowering the engine into the chassis?

You can leave both exhaust manifolds on the engine, the starter probably needs to be off, I've never installed an engine with the starter already in place.

Remove the turbocharger from the passenger's side exhaust manifold though so you can see what's going on, but leave the manifold on the engine.

You've already got the transmission jacked up, that's good.

Next, have your engine setup on your hoise either with the chain choked one way, or using a "load leveler" angle the engine to where the back of it is leaning downwards (to meet the transmission).

You'll get it close and then take a look underneath to see how the tranmission is aligning (the two main pins and angle).

It's a chore.

J

[robscarab]

I actually primed the oil system and had the engine started and running on my test stand prior to this. I needed to hear it run before wrestling it back into the engine bay.

So I guess I strip her back down again and things should be a little less challenging! I promised to take the boys to the waterpark today so it will be a night mission. Thank goodness for the long days here in the Northern latitudes!

Thanks for the help and wish me luck!

Rob

[Slim shady]

Robyn has done more than one or two engines, I can tell.

Take her advice and remove the manifolds and turbo and all other accessories. It is nearly impossible to install the engine by yourself without removing them and all of the other items.

[robscarab]

Uh Oh, conflicting advice ? Im sure it will work both ways but which method do I try... Perhaps I should try the starter and turbo removal first and then move to the full manifold removal if no success?

I am using an adjustable chain style harness so I can try different angles...

Thanks to you all for sharing your valuable experiance and the methods that worked for each of you! I may end up trying all three including the tranny out scenario.....

[Slim shady]

Exhaust manifolds are a must to have removed for installation. I always leave the intake off until last myself. Just a preference for me. So there is no RIGHT WAY to do it, just a personal preference. Exhaust manifolds are a Right way to do it, I have done with manifolds on and off, with the manifolds off, it is easier to maneuver the engine in in my opinion, but that is my opinion.

After a few of them in the same body style you get a system down that works for you, Not that I am advocating taking your engine out more than is necessary. LOL I like mine in the body and working. Looks nice on the stand but much better in the vehicle.

[More Power]

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/65in.jpg

I've done this a few times.... Always with manifolds on.

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/mmount.jpg

I assemble the motor mounts so the engine doesn't have to be lifted over them while the engine is being dropped in. Was easier for me. Getting the three bolts in each lower mount bolted to the frame takes a little effort, but it saves beating up the firewall & firewall insulation by having to lift it over the installed lower mounts.

The GM shop manuals say to install the 6.2/6.5 engine/trans as a unit in 2WD vehicles, and separately in 4WD vehicles.

I've done dozens of engine installations by myself since the 60's - including the 6.2/6.5 & most recently a Duramax.

Jim

[NH2112]

When I installed the 99 6.5lTD in my 85 C1500 a couple years back, the manifolds and turbo were both left on and I didn't have any trouble lining things up. That being said, I like to get the engine as naked as possible before dropping it in - I just was very certain that I wouldn't have room between the engine and the frame rails to install the manifolds with the engine in. Turned out i was half right - the driver's side had plenty of clearance but not the passenger's side. It's a good thing, too, because I ended up having to use my original 6.2l exhaust manifold (and modifying the crossover pipe) on that side due to the 6.5l manifold being in the same place as my clutch slave cylinder needed to be.

Edit: I did have a bit of trouble getting the engine mounts lined up, IIRC I ended up prying one side up till I got the bolt started at the front then prying at the back while hammering it through. The swap was done in a very uneven dirt driveway, using a cherry-picker with welded front casters, in late November when temps were hitting maybe 30F and we'd gotten some snow & rain toward the end to make a nice slushy mess to lie in when welding up my exhaust :eek:

[Kennedy]

Waht do you have supporting the trans? A bar across the torsion bars is a must.


I have done it with the manifolds on no problem. I like MP's idea about the engine mounts assembled, but I've succeeded with them on.

[Robyn]

I see loads of experience being offered here. :D

I am not a big girl by any means. About 5-11 and well we wont go there:eek:

But any way I have done many R&R's all by myself and I always keep as much stuff off the engine as possible when its going back in.
My last 6.5 had the intake on as well as the air hat. The injectors, lines and all that was on too. Water pump was on as was the oil filter adapter.
I left the manifolds off to give more hand room around the sides and also better visability.
The oil cooler lines are very easy to hook up with the manifold and cross over no where close.

The crossover pipe needs to be out of the way to gain access to the flywheel housing and such too.

I used my Bobcat type machine with an air chain hoist hung off the bucket connected to a chain that attached to the factory lift hooks.

Once I was ready for the drop in I had a piece of plywood on a floor jack under the tranny pan to keep the tranny up into the tunnel.
Now just as soon as I got the engine down into the mounts I threaded in 4 of the tranny bolts to assure the line up and then removed the jack before dropping any major load on the suspension.

The tranny pans are not all that stout and can deform if you get rowdy with them.

Once the weight was on the mounts I installed the front mount bolts and buttoned them down tight. Next came the oil cooler lines and little snively stuff like electrtical plugs.

At this point came the water hoses (top and bottom) as well as the heater hose that goes from the crossover to the heater core.

With this stuff all out of my hair, on went the exhaust iron and then the down pipe flange clamp.
The starter waited until later and I removed the RH front wheel to gain easy access to the wires and the front support.

Finished up the top side with the turbo and its attendant plumbing and then the accessories and the shroud and fan ect.

We rolled the sucker over to prime it with fuel then screwed in the glow sticks and then came coolant and soon after I lit a fire in the creature.

There are certainly many ways, all of which can work fine.
I have to work most of the time alone so I do things in a manner that will allow me to get things done without either breaking stuff or injuring me. :eek:

Oh yesssss I have bled my share on these things :D

If ya dont bleed on it the suckers not gonna run right dont ya know

good luck

Robyn

[daustin]

I'm with Robyn there, i do 99% of my work solo and have left red spots on just about every auto i've ever owned. :o Working solo is a lot harder and you have to be really carefull with heavy objects. I've pulled/installed about 30 drivetrains in the past 25 years of working on these things, and i usually have everything off the motor. No starter, alt, ..etc as it's a lot easier to install solo that way. I also pull/install the engine & trans together as i've found it's usually easier not to have to mess with the bellhousing next to the firewall. That way you have to bolt the engine mount in (1 bolt per side) and the trans xmember (6 bolts total usually) and the beast is sitting there. Then bolt on all the misc stuff. The 6.5 TD i install the lower intake, but leave the upper off & turbo off until i have the beast bolted in so it stays out of the way. The exhaust manifolds on the 6.5 i have the pass side on, and usually the drivers side as well. (exception to the method above) If i'm using headers, they depend upon if i can install them with the engine in place. (SB & BB chevys i can, engines like a pontiac 400-455 i can not). Sorry for the rambling, my hobby is restoring 60's musclecars - i do one every couple of years. Got my 6.5 TD DRW for a tow machine with my dual-axle car trailer. Love it thus far!!! Good luck.
Don

[Robyn]

Pulling a 6.5 TD with a 4L80 and Tcase on the back is gonna be a bit much me thinks.

When I dropped the egine back into the Burb I hooked the engine up to the hoist that was hanging on the BOBCAT and then slowly drove over to the rig and positioned the engine over the truck and got it where I wanted it.

I dropped it down so it was close and then made a couple small adjustments to the setup and then lowered it into the hole.
The BOBCAT was shut off and the boom safety locked so it could not fall.
I crawled into the engine bay and run the air hoist with the hand controls so I could be right on top of the engine as it went in.
From the time I finished the drop from just above the frame to having the engine engaged into the tranny and sitting lightly on the front mounts was no more than 3-5 minutes.

I had the upper mounts bolted to the engine and the rubber isolators bolted to the frame. The only bolts I removed were the long ones that hold the upper and lower together.

I tied the wiring at the firewall out of the way so it would not get in the road as well as not get damaged. (Little stripped bungee cords work great)

AC pump still charged and tied over to one side so it was not a bother.

One can make this a very easy job if you get everything set right.

A good electric or air hoist is handy but a good old fashioned chain hoist works ok. The hydraulic engine lifts are suitable but a helper is almost a must with them.

Most important thing is to have a setup that can offer fine control on the rate of drop/rise.

Just my observations

Robyn :)

[jerry598]

My 2 bits - the oil cooler lines and LH exhaust should be on before the install. I installed my exhaust manifolds after the engine was in the bay. No problem with the P side exhaust manifold, but while installing the D side exhaust manifold, I was unable to get my torque wrenches in place to properly torque the D side bolts.

[Yukon6.2]

Hi
I just replaced the engine in my 96 3500 4x4.I removed and replaced the engine fully dressed.I removed only what needed to removed.It had both manifolds,turbo, intake and hat,water pump and flywheel and clutch.I did the removal and install by my self.I was leary about the install,you have to get the tranny up as high as you can.There is hardly any extra room anywhere but if you watch all the angles it will slide in like a dream,i took some extra time to make sure the splines on the clutch and trany were in the same orentation ,spline up on trany valley up on clutch,got the shaft started in the clutch and distances looked the same all around the bellhousing,gave it a little push and it slid home,one of the easyest manual installations to date for me.If you have an auto,piece of cake;)

[NH2112]

With a manual transmission I've always found it easier to mate the tranny to the engine than mate the engine to the tranny. The tranny gets lowered or slid back, the clutch ass'y is installed and the engine kept somewhat level, and the tranny gets moved into place, aligned, and bolted up.

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

X2. putting in the tranny after is fairly simple. split the bellhousing from the rest of the tranny, and install them separately.

[SmithvilleD]

My experience agree's with Jim's on the benefit of pulling the frame side motor mounts & having them attached thru the engine. Not having to make the little vertical jump up/over the frame side engine mounts made things go together easier.

Then it took a bit of time, with hoist still supporting a big portion of the engine weight, to get holes in the frame side mounts lined up. I could get 5 of 6 tightened by myself. One of them on the driver's side refused every human contortion I tried, so needed a friend to hold the wrench on one side.

[jerry598]

With a manual transmission I've always found it easier to mate the tranny to the engine than mate the engine to the tranny. The tranny gets lowered or slid back, the clutch ass'y is installed and the engine kept somewhat level, and the tranny gets moved into place, aligned, and bolted up.

Could you please provide a little more clarification on this? It was a PITA to drop my engine into the bay and get the bellhousing (attached to NV4500 manual) to mate with the block. Should we have dropped the driveline and moved the NV4500 out of the way first? My neighbor, who hates all GMC products and is a heavy diesel mechanic with a shop and a 5 ton remote controlled lift only helped me out because we're neighbors. And we still had problems. Actually, he was worried that I would kill myself doing the job with a cherry picker. Other than that, he let me do the rest of the rebuild out in the heat, cold and snow, by myself. But other than that he's a great neighbor!

[Pipeline Mechanic]

The only thing mine was missing was the starter,crossover, and fan after all I didn't want to overload the crane..... ;)

http://i33.tinypic.com/2dm8h8w.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/195w0.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/2i70n74.jpg

[SmithvilleD]

Now there's a crane solution for pulling boat engines that would look far less redneck than the tree in my back yard. :)

[NH2112]

Could you please provide a little more clarification on this? It was a PITA to drop my engine into the bay and get the bellhousing (attached to NV4500 manual) to mate with the block. Should we have dropped the driveline and moved the NV4500 out of the way first? My neighbor, who hates all GMC products and is a heavy diesel mechanic with a shop and a 5 ton remote controlled lift only helped me out because we're neighbors. And we still had problems. Actually, he was worried that I would kill myself doing the job with a cherry picker. Other than that, he let me do the rest of the rebuild out in the heat, cold and snow, by myself. But other than that he's a great neighbor!

That's exactly what I was referring to - get the tranny out of the way, get the engine installed and level, then mount up the tranny. It's great if you have a tranny jack, last time I did the job I didn't - I had a tranny Phil, which was me squatting in the cab with a ratchet strap around my shoulders and wrapped around the tranny, lifting as best I could while a friend steadied it, got the thing lined up and the bolts started LOL

The bottom of page 1 describes what I did the job in, all in all it wasn't really that bad. Being out of work at the time gave me plenty of time and I didn't have to rush LOL