View Full Version : Starter issues
spunks00
07-30-2007, 22:22
So i sold my tuck to my bro and well now i have it again and i cannot get it to run, before i "sold it" to him i installed a (the other is waiting to go in) new tank, and replace some of the fuel line(planned on running bio)...but anyways trying to get it running i ran into these problems:
Water in the fuel, when it did start, blew white smoke and barly ran with full/idle/anywhere inbetween.
and now: the starter cranks, and will not stop untill you disconnect the batteries
so i am sure someone has encontered this before and it is as simple as silnoid or something
FYI:the truck as not ran almost a year
john8662
07-31-2007, 00:44
Double check the connections on the starter as far as the solenoid is concerned. It's possible that the loop connection on the "S" terminal wire is too close to the main starter lug wire, causing the solenoid to engage.
Otherwise, it's a failed solenoid, or other electrical problem.
Likely the starter or close by because of the extended cranking it may have been subjected to.
The solenoid cannot be removed from the starter mounted to the engine though. I also recommend taking it to an alternator/starter shop for repair.
Sounds as though it's time to do a fuel system flush if you're suspecting water.
Pour up a sample from the filter and see if you have water, which will be on the bottom of the clear glass container you used for sampling.
J
spunks00
07-31-2007, 20:03
i actualy got tired of draining the stock filter and i have a clear filter so i can see when to drain it again, that is just till i get her fixed then i will put it back together...lol,
thanks i will check for some wireing issues and i just thought i could do a remote start:D just to test things?!?!?!
spunks00
08-06-2007, 18:20
so i tryed running just a wire to see if the switch was bad, and the starter still just ran and ran...so i had a spare silinoid (sp) off a gas starter that bolted right up...so now it works agian but still cant get it to fire.
i pull an injector line to see if it was wet and it was not and didnt spray anything when the engine cranked...but i could be just need to get fuel to it, but i felt no pressure when the engine cranked, witch could be that the air does not come out the same like diesel does...are my assumtions(sp) wrong?
ccatlett1984
08-09-2007, 14:00
make sure you have 12v to the pink wire on the top of the injector pump, if it doesnt it closes the fuel shutoff and you will get the symptoms that you describe.
spunks00
09-03-2007, 08:30
i have juice to the pink wire with ingintion, and while cranking engine.
i have pull all injector pipes (except the one under the AC compressor) to see if i get any fuel come out of them...nothing!?!?!
i was getting a filter full of water so i bypaseed my tank and ran a hose directly into a 5 gallon jug, then with a sifion pump primed the line to/thru the filter.
could my injection pump be bad? should i hear something in it when it gets power to it (the shut off switch, does it click or anything)
how would i know if the injection pump is bad????
ccatlett1984
09-03-2007, 17:33
odds are that the fuel shutoff solenoid inside the top of the injector pump is bad or stuck. you should here a click when you connect the pink wire to the IP while the ignition is on. the part to replace can be had at a shop that rebuilds injector pumps/turbochargers. it costs around $60
spunks00
09-03-2007, 17:57
Ok so that works. still no fuel out the pipes soooooo......
If i trip the pump to on, hold the accelarator fully depress, and pressureise (with sifon pump) the fuel line, that should bleed all the air in the system out and i should have fuel comming out the lines...right??????????????
spunks00
09-03-2007, 18:16
Ok so that works. still no fuel out the pipes soooooo......
If i trip the pump to on, hold the accelarator fully depress, and pressureise (with sifon pump) the fuel line, that should bleed all the air in the system out and i should have fuel comming out the lines...right??????????????
spunks00
09-06-2007, 20:59
I am assuming that my IP is bad, i still dont have any fuel to the lines.
anyone ever got one from a wrecking yard?? what to look for, #????
if not a used one, then where is the best place to go get a new one, rebuilt by who?? ebay??
what all do i have to de when replacing it, obviusly pull the intake, i dont know how the timing works, do you set it with the pump, i presume.
and any other info that i should know...
thanks!
john8662
09-07-2007, 11:07
Troublesome huh?
Ok, from re-reading your description, you're still not getting any fuel weeping out the injection lines after numerious attempts to relieve an airlock situation.
At this point, I'm sure that you've cranked on the engine in 10 second intervals probably 5-6 times and still nothing.
Check for the "click".
Remove the pink/red wire off the injection pump with the ignition switch already on "run" and then plug the connection back in on the pump. You should hear and feel a click on the top of the pump. Usually this goes with a little electrical spark on the connector (good thing this ain't a gasser eh?).
If you've got a click then that tells me two things.
That the pink wire is on the correct terminal on the injection pump, and that the fuel solenoid is likely good.
Next step. Pull the top cover off the injection pump.
This will require removal of the cruise control servo and then loosening up one of the three injection pump mounting bolts and then two smaller bolts that hold the throttle bracket to the side of the injection pump.
The IP mounting bolt you need to just loosen is on the driver's side of the engine, lower. It has a 15mm head on it, you need to use a box-end wrench.
The two smaller bolts are on the side of the IP and have a 13mm head on them just remove them.
Next slide the bracket assembly towards the driver's side to get more access to the top cover, also moves the fast idle solenoid out of the way too.
Next, remove two electrical connections and the fuel return hose from the top of the IP. Then remove the 3 hext headed screws on the top of the IP.
Remove the top of the IP.
Take a look inside.
Is it full of fuel?
Is it empty?
What is the condition of the fuel inside, water?
Post the results and we can continue to narrow out whether you have an injection pump failure.
From the sounds of things, and the quantity of water you're fighting it's possible that the IP has suffered failure.
An injection pump can be had from a many number of places.
I'm on the fence myself of who the best place to get one currently is.
I'd be tempted to try Taylor Diesel, who is in my neck of the woods.
www.dieselpage.com (http://www.dieselpage.com)
I'd also recommend giving the Vendors that support this page/forum a call and acquiring the best product for the money, do some price shopping and see who'll get you the best deal.
The first step in bleeding the fuel system is to disconnect the pink wire from the top of the injector pump, open the fuel bleeder screw at the top passenger side of the fuel filter, and crank in 15-20 second spurts (with at least a minute in between) till you see fuel squirt from the bleeder. Make sure it's actually squirting and not dribbling or foamy. Close the bleeder screw and reconnect the pink wire. If you don't see fuel but know there's plenty in the tank, suspect blocked fuel lines or a bad fuel (lift) pump. It's mounted in the same place as the pump on a small block Chevy, and is kind of a pain if you have to replace it (but not THAT bad.)
Next, grab a 19mm wrench and loosen some injector line nuts 1 full turn. You don't have to do all of them, I've gotten enough air out of the lines for the engine to run roughly with only 2 undone. Ideally you'll remove the glow plugs to give your starter a break - it should only take about 10 minutes on your engine. In either case, follow the same 15-20 second/1 minute rule you did for bleeding at the filter. Once you have fuel droplets spraying an inch or 2, tighten the injector nuts. The engine may be running roughly at this time if you didn't remove the glow plugs. Let it run and give it some fuel if it starts bogging. If you removed the plugs, put them back in (given that winter is coming, or if you don't know that they're good, it might not be a bad idea to put a new set of AC60Gs or Kennedy quick-heats in), turn the key, wait for the glow lamp to go out, and put your foot to the floor when cranking. It may still run rough and stall, if it does just give it another full-throttle cranking.
spunks00
09-07-2007, 20:37
Well pulled my IP cover and found that the fuel was rusted!!! so i am almost sure that it is plugged and thats why i woulnd send fuel....i am about to search but if someone replies quick, i have the IP unbolted but i dose not just pull out it catches on something not sure what eles i need to do to reamove it??? thanks
spunks00
09-09-2007, 15:38
So i found how to take off the pump. I have dumped it out and rinse it out with diesel then gas then diesel again, now i am going to try using a air gun to blow out the fittings/ports/injector line/what ever there called. then i will reinstall it and see if i can get her started. Any other sugestions on what eles i might do to prevent having to get a new pump????
thanks
The IP is bolted to the drive gear in the timing case. Remove the oil filler and you can remove the three bolts that hold the gear on though the filler hole in the front of the cover.
The pump will then slide right out.
If the IP is full of crap then its probably game over.
needs to be gone through along with the injectors.
You also need to clean the tank real well and replace the filters.
The rust came from somewhere and I would bet a rusted tank or the fuel was crappy and you pumped all the crud into the system.
Good luck
Robyn
spunks00
09-09-2007, 18:51
can the IP be cleaned?
i already install one new tank and have the second but not installed yet(thought i got a hurnia(sp) doing the first one)
how can i test the pump, just spin it with fuel in the bowl??? (cover off, throttle to full) or does it have to have the cover on, dose it need the small
pressure from the lift pump or will it work the bowl full???
what happens if i pull the inlet pice off?
just really dont have the 300 to buy a new one.
spunks00
09-09-2007, 21:44
ok you all win...lol...tryed cleaning and reinstalling, but when i reinstalled the pump it still hardly dripped out. has anyone ever cranked there engnine with the lines not installed on the pump, i figured that it would be spraying agains the firewall but it just shot a drop out like 4in. i put a compression tester agains it figring that it should be about 2000psi, so even with it leaking i should get a little reading, did not show any pressure(readings start at 30psi).
still deep down hoping/wishing that it was not bad.
so i will start shoping around, where have you guys purchased your IPs?
thanks for all the help...i will be back soon to figure out timing!(should be able to find that via a search)
john8662
09-09-2007, 23:32
Rust inside the pump is as like Robyn says, game over.
Keep an keen eye on ebay you can probably score something in much better shape to get it running again.
I frequently see pumps pulled from salvage engines sold for around $150.
J
John has a good idea there.. Good O'll ebay
BUTTTTTTTT you have got to get rid of any and all contamination in the system.
Remove and clean the fuel tank and flush the lines as well.
replace any and all fuel filters and start fresh.
The injectors may very well be skunked up too so plan on an IP and a set of injectors.
Again a trip to ebay can probably score you some parts to get you going.
If you need some parts at a reasonable price I have a set of fresh injectors and a fresh pump for the 6.2. PM me if you are interested.
The IP is all fresh from the pump shop and bagged up, injectors are in the boxes.
let me know if I can help
Robyn
ccatlett1984
09-13-2007, 21:23
I have a pump off a known good engine, only reason its not still running is some one ran it with a bad harmonic dampener. the truck had 80k miles. PM me if you are interested and we'll get you squared away.
I don't know if the testing you did proves much. the pump will not develope any pressure unless it's pumping into a good injector and the line between the pump and the injector is free of air.
You may want to pull a couple of injectors and have them tested for pattern and pop pressure. You could also have the pump tested if you're unsure as to its condition.
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