Detroit Diesel

[gophergunner]

ok, so i think i'm a little obsessed with the old Detroits, but i just love the sound they make. Now i've been thinking for a while that i would like to have an old 2-stroke in a pickup truck but i'm not really sure which to use and even if i decide i will need some help on picking a transmission and transfer case combo.

so the contenders as of now are a 3-53, 4-53, 6v-53, or a 4-71

3-53 seems a little underpowered for my likings, but very economical and still has the great sound.
4-53 seems little better but i just have to watch the weight of the whole thing. these aren't exactly meant for pickup trucks.
6v-53 is supposed to have a fair amount of power and a bit higher reving
4-71.......well i was told the 71 series was the best engines detroit ever made

right now i'm leaning towards the 4-71 because i have found an aluminum bare block (no crank or head or any other parts) which works quite well since i would have rebuilt the whole thing anyways. The aluminum block will save me lots of weight, as its apparently only about 175 lbs according to the seller.

now i'm just wondering if anyone else has any input here, or if i should ditch the aluminum block for some cast iron, or else a different series engine altogether. don't even mention cummins because they could never make me as happy as an old detroit could.

if your curious about what i'm putting it in, i'm thinking about a 1969-1972 body style, 3/4 ton 4x4 gmc. of course i would start with this engine and build the truck from the groung up i think. if i'm going to do it i might as well do it right.

[Craig M]

Quite a few have done the 453/453T in 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. Most have been very happy. The 6V53/6V53T will give you the maxim power, but like you said, a bit heavy. Have not seen a 471/471T in a pickup. Others have stated the additional height will make the install a bit tougher than the 453T. An aluminum 471T should give you good power and a reasonable weight engine. Tie rod, oil pan, steering, transmission hump, engine mounts are all issue that may have to be dealt with during the install. Saw a 671 in a 3/4 ton Ford, so if that can be done all else is gravy.

[gophergunner]

from the info i found online the 471 is only a few inches difference in height compared to the 453.

i just have a good lead on that aluminum block and i hate to pass it up if its a good and very possible conversion, but i also hate to waste my time if there is a better detroit option for a pickup.............but if a 671 can fit in a 3/4 ton i shouldn't have any trouble.

[Craig M]

The 671 fit, but not without problems. No engine fan, used electric pusher fan on the bumper side of the radiator. Firewall was "extended" into the cab area to get the long 6 cylinder in. The guy got the 671 cheap, so did not mind the extra work to install it. A 471 should not have the fan/firewall issues. 2 inches is not much, but the clearance from steering/suspension to the hood are tight. A louvered hood could solve the issue.

[gophergunner]

well i'm going to try to get this 471 and rebuild it.....might take some time tracking down parts and that because its just a bare block. but i think a body lift might help solve any height clearance issues.

another problematic area will be clutch, transmission, and transfer case......don't even know where to start that would fit any of these detroit engines and would also work well for a pickup application

[Craig M]

Transmission should not be a problem. Allisons auto's (old style AT545 or similar) or various manuals will bolt right up. Lots of old manual transmissions at local wrecking yards. I saw that aluminum block on ebay also. You might want to buy a "parts" 471 to get all the components you will need at a reasonable cost. Rebuild kits will have liners, pistons and that, but lots of small parts will be required, and buying them from a parts store could get expensive.

[6.5NOVA]

Take a look...........


http://videos.streetfire.net/video/68426923-3b60-4b6d-a34e-993d011bba43.htm


twin turbo 6V-92 with 157 mm injectors...

[arveetek]

Saw a 671 in a 3/4 ton Ford, so if that can be done all else is gravy.

I, too, once saw a 6-71 in a 3/4 ton Ford once. Seems like it was an early 70's or late 60's model Ford. I saw it at a truck and tractor show in Republic, Missouri.

I've seen a couple of other pickup trucks with 6-71's shoe-horned into them, but it is a tight fit and a lot of fabrication is necessary.

My dad has a 6-71 mounted in a custom truck he's building, but he now wants to find a 8.3L Cummins to replace it. He's decided the Detroit would be a bit loud for highway use.

Casey

[gophergunner]

i called up a local fellow who deals with old detroits and rebuilding and what not. i tell him what i want to do and the first thing he says is cummins 5.9 litre.........he's not discouraging me yet but the aluminum block on ebay is about to end, sorry if anyone else is planning on bidding on it, but i think i might as well take a chance on it because the aluminum ones don't come up too often.

just hoping for that last little bit of input someone might have about a 4-71 being a bad choice.........anything at all??

[Craig M]

The Cummins is a good engine, but does not have the sound of a Detroit 2 stroke. An aluminum 471T will be a relatively light good torque diesel engine. If shipping was not $203 I might consider that aluminum 471 block.

[gophergunner]

$203 seems kinda cheap for shipping that thing..........

gotta spend my money on something, might as well be something unique that i enjoy:D

i heard a rumour that detroits are very expensive to rebuild though......i don't believe it yet because i was also told by someone else that there are so many parts available for them. anybody know from experience on this?

[Craig M]

I see rebuild kits about $1200 for 6V53's. 471 should be less, just a bit harder to find.

[journeyman]

I have heard of aluminum blocks for Detroits in submarines (what about the heads?) but never seen one.
Which did you see for sale? 4-53? 6V53?

I have always thought an aluminum 6v in a pickup would be incredible (if you have a LOT of sound insulation)

[Craig M]

3-53 an 4-71 are freqwuently available with aluminum blocks. 3-53's from the GAMA goats.

[journeyman]

Anyone have any weight specs on an aluminum DD?
4-53, 71?
6v53?
6v71?

[ARAMP1]

Anyone have any weight specs on an aluminum DD?
4-53, 71?
6v53?
6v71?

I've got an aluminum 4-71 block and it weighs just under 200 pounds.

I think it's a bit hard to look at total weight of an engine. I suppose you can have an aluminum block, head(s), front plate and cover, rear plate and bellhousing. Many times, these were mixed and matched ie aluminum block/iron head, etc.

[ARAMP1]

I've got an aluminum 4-71 block and it weighs just under 200 pounds.

I think it's a bit hard to look at total weight of an engine. I suppose you can have an aluminum block, head(s), front plate and cover, rear plate and bellhousing. Many times, these were mixed and matched ie aluminum block/iron head, etc.


Wow, that was my first post in here. Sierra Hotel! I guess I'll introduce myself.

[a5150nut]

Welcome to TDP.

Now you broke the ice, you can speek up a little more often now.......

Whats ya gona doo with that alum block? Any project in mind?:D

[ARAMP1]

It's going in my one ton Chevy. :D

[journeyman]

Would love to see (specs, pics, applications...) of the 6v53 in aluminum. Any info?

Anyone?

[reighna]

They are only expensive if you are going to pay a shop to do it.... You can get a complete rebuild kit for a 4-53 for about $1200.
One cool thing about the 2 cycle DD is they dont have a central high pressure and high price injector pump just a continuous loop fuel pump and the injectors are mechanical... rocker activated plungers... you can loose an injector or two and they just keep running! The 2 stroke DD date back to WW II developed for the armed forces as a simple and reliable engine.
You can also thumb your nose at the Oil Barrons! How? In warm climates you can run the Detroit Diesel On well filtered waste fryer oil or in cooler climates Preheat WVO & Block.... Google treehugger they ran a 2-71 generator on strait WVO for 40,000 Hrs (if my memory serves me) then donated it to a NY Museum were it's still chugging away!
FREE FUEL!!!

None of us are as smart as all of us.

[gophergunner]

its hard to not want such a great sounding engine with a strong history of reliability. if my memory is correct, the 71 series was produced for about 60years before it was discontinued.

there are a few videos on youtube of a 1964 chev 1/2 ton 4x4 with a 3-53 from a gama goat in it. he claims 28 mpg on the highway. pretty good for a full size 4x4. and it sounds pretty damn nice

i definately want to get a detroit diesel into a pickup truck one day, but most people around here are very discouraging and always say "an easier and better engine to swap in would be a cummins"......i don't want a cummins though

but if i can find a good engine, running or else in need of rebuild then i think my project will be under way.:rolleyes:

[journeyman]

I had a 4-53 in an IH travelall. Things I disliked: Noise (but that is exactly what you LIKED), fuel economy (only got 12-13 mpg). Things I liked: Power and torque.
My boss had a 4-71 in an old work truck and it always sounded a lot more "sedate" than mine (lower rumble, smoother), not sure why.

If you want to go with the aluminum 4-71, I would recommend investing in an Allison 1000 transmission (if you want A/T) or one of the newer 6 or even 7 speed manuals. The DDAD's rev like there's no tomorrow, but they don't like to lug. Right gears will make the whole experience a LOT better.

[gophergunner]

well if i were to do this, i'm thinking of a pickup truck size here, and 4x4 as well. but preferably manual transmission. just seems to me that a 4-71 is a bit taller and heavier, and a 6 or 7 speed for it would be a fairly heavy transmission as well. would make me worry about the front axle a little.

my dad still has a 1969 gmc 9500 tandem axle truck on the farm. he uses it every spring and fall and it doesn't seem to let him down. its got a 6-71 that has been rebuilt twice, the second time was due to a broken crankshaft from the first rebuild which was only about 100 miles old at the point of the second rebuild. but even if those engines don't usually like low rpm, this thing could tear its own brakes apart in low gear............

i grew up on the farm and listening to that truck throughout the years made me love the detroit diesel sound. which is why i am wanting one in a pickup truck now:cool:

[DeezilDoc]

To bad your so far away. I have a 4-71 but it has a cast iron block. all the parts are there needs an overhaul tho...........even have an inline bell housing that's aluminum for an automotive application

[andysfords]

The problem with the 471 or any other 71 series engine is that is has a longer stroke than a 53 series and it cannot turn to as many RPM. A 71 series can't be turned past about 2600 while a 53 can be turned as far as 3200 safely. The advantage of a 53 is that you can take the back housing off an aluminum block 353, some of them had a back housing that would bolt to a chevrolet bell housing. I've got one I'm fixing to put in a 1985 Chevy 1 ton, It is a 453 Cast iron block, a back housing off an aluminum 353, it will bolt to the existing bellhousing and a 4 spd manual tranny. The only problem is that the housing won't fit a 6v engine. I work for a man that specializes in 2 stoke detroits, he is awesome at all of this stuff. He had one of those 353s with the chevy bolt pattern in a half ton truck, but he wrecked the truck. Still has the engine, complet with bellhousing and motor mounts, I think I'm going to buy it, as its only $1250 and I think it might be great for a project down the road sometime. I am going to see how the little detroit does in the truck, if I like, I'm going to have it rebuilt as a turbo motor later. A 453 turbo would give you all the power you need, they used to put them in ton and half chevys, but I am looking at one day having a 6v53t with an Allison Auto behind it, that would be ideal for a 1 ton, plenty of power.

[gophergunner]

even if the 71 series doesn't rev as high, a 4-71 would have enough torque for some 3.08 gears and appropriately sized tires i think.....i would really be worried about engine dimensions and weight really.

like i said before, i keep getting discouraged about this kind of conversion from anyone who deals with detroit engines. you'd think they'd encourage me and try to sell me some stuff.

i noticed some pamphlets at the detroit dealer in edmonton for rebuilt 53, 71, 92, 110, and 149 series engines, but i didn't dare ask about it cause i'm sure they don't come cheap for a full rebuild from those guys. but i'm keeping my eye out for a good used one, hopefully still in running condition, but if someone were to have a good setup with the correct bellhousing i would consider buying it. the cost of shipping might be worth it since i'm not having much luck around here. or else a nice road trip to pick it up:confused:

[DeezilDoc]

I really think U should go with a 53, a 4 if possable............6V U need a shoe horn to get it under the hood. I have specialized in the 2 strokes since 1971,22 years with Peninsular Diesel who was the distributor for Michigan.Feel free to scratch my head anytime always willing to throw my $0.02 worth in if it helps Great if not ...............OH WELL:rolleyes:

[gophergunner]

i'm willing to take any advice and tips i can on this topic.

judging from the views on the 2 detroit diesel threads, i think this is a popular topic really.

i am currently working on my 89 blazer for my off-road buggy, but once that thing gets up and going i think i will focus my time on this detroit diesel pickup dream i've been having........

my dream goes as follows.....not sure on which engine exactly, but leaning towards 4-53, NV4500, NP205 all supported on a K2500 or 3500 frame with 14-bolt full floating rear end and Dana 60 front end to support all that weight.

as i said, dream so far, but if its not possible to use an NV4500 without expensive adapters and whatnot, then i'll use an SM465. however, i will welcome all clues, tips and hints about adapters and correct bellhousings here. i asked a fellow at Novak Conversions but he has not gotten back to me yet. and i'm willing to use a different t-case if it saves me trouble in my build-up.

also, if anyone seems to have any good leads on a good engine, aluminum block would be nice, feel free to send me some info. i am in canada, so distance may be an issue, but sometimes ya just can't turn down a good deal if it comes along.

costs add up, but the uniqueness of the truck is worth it in the end:rolleyes:

[tjmac77]

Hey guys- I am new to the forum and have been reading up on your posts. I recently purchased 2 DD 4 53t's with intent of repowering my old jeeps. In my J10 I have swapped in 1 ton axles and a divorced NP205 which I with couple to an Allison 545 behind the 453t. I hope it works OK. In my '77 Cherokee I have GM HD 3/4 axles from a '73 C20 4x4. I would like to use a manual transmission but need some help with choosing one that will work. I got the GM axles from a neighbor who still has the rest of the '73 C20... could the transmission and T-case possibly bolt up? I have never worked on anything other than older Fords so I am not sure on what will swap. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

PS Would a 353 be better in the Cherokee?...bought the 453 cause it was CHEAP! Maybe I should swap???

[gophergunner]

i always keep an eye out on ebay, might strike a deal one day.

personally i'd think a 3-53 would be enough for a cherokee, since a fellow repowered a 1964 chev 4x4 with a 3-53.......he's got videos on youtube that i just love to watch:cool:

[tjmac77]

I know I've worn out the mouse button for the past month clicking play!

[gophergunner]

I know I've worn out the mouse button for the past month clicking play!


good to know i'm not the only one with the detroit diesel obsession:rolleyes:

[tjmac77]

Do you know if the 453 and 353 have the same bell housing pattern...hate to sound stupid. Am I wrong thinking the 353 is a DOT 3 and the 453 is a DOT 4? I keep coming up with conflicting info when I search the web. Will a particular Chevy bell housing bolt right up or is there a lot of modifying involved?:confused:

[gophergunner]

Do you know if the 453 and 353 have the same bell housing pattern...hate to sound stupid. Am I wrong thinking the 353 is a DOT 3 and the 453 is a DOT 4? I keep coming up with conflicting info when I search the web. Will a particular Chevy bell housing bolt right up or is there a lot of modifying involved?:confused:

sorry, not sure exactly. i myself am still wondering whats required to make a chevy transmission bolt up. the guys at the local detroit dealer told me that they use SAE #1 bellhousings on the motors. and he never specified what size or series though....

[DeezilDoc]

the inline rear housings will interchange, I think there are 3 maybe 4 different different size openings for the flywheel and clutch assembelies. they also have adapters to fit different applications to power transmissions PTO's or hydraulic pumps. WHEN you start getting down to the nitty gritty of putting this thing together I can fax you a sheet with the spec's and measurements........have to dig it out of the archives

[gophergunner]

the inline rear housings will interchange, I think there are 3 maybe 4 different different size openings for the flywheel and clutch assembelies. they also have adapters to fit different applications to power transmissions PTO's or hydraulic pumps. WHEN you start getting down to the nitty gritty of putting this thing together I can fax you a sheet with the spec's and measurements........have to dig it out of the archives

ok.......this is whats mostly been holding me up from avidly searching for an engine. i have a 79 pickup sittin around that needs some good axles, but meanwhile it has a 350, SM465, and NP205.

so i'm thinking the tranny and t-case will work just fine for me, as long as i can get the transmission bolted up to a detroit engine and get a clutch that will work with this thing.

what can you tell me about the engine to transmission adapters? maybe you have a part number from general motors or detroit diesel??? any help would be appreciated. thanks:D

[reighna]

They are only expensive if you are going to pay a shop to do it.... You can get a complete rebuild kit for a 4-53 for about $1200.
One cool thing about the 2 cycle DD is they dont have a central high pressure and high price injector pump just a continuous loop fuel pump and the injectors are mechanical... rocker activated plungers... you can loose an injector or two and they just keep running! The 2 stroke DD date back to WW II developed for the armed forces as a simple and reliable engine.
You can also thumb your nose at the Oil Barrons! How? In warm climates you can run the Detroit Diesel On well filtered waste fryer oil or in cooler climates Preheat WVO & Block.... Google treehugger they ran a 2-71 generator on strait WVO for 40,000 Hrs (if my memory serves me) then donated it to a NY Museum were it's still chugging away!
FREE FUEL!!!

None of us are as smart as all of us.

Google Green-trust to find web site, 4,000 hrs is correct, $600 for 4-53 kit...

[PullinJimmy]

I am new to this forum. I am looking for any information on getting maximun HP out of a Detroit 4-53 engine. The engine is in a pulling tractor and currently turning it 3200 RPM with 100 inectors. Wondering if can do head work, camshaft work, etc. to increase HP? I can't run a turbo. Any information will be appreciated.

[PullinJimmy]

I really think U should go with a 53, a 4 if possable............6V U need a shoe horn to get it under the hood. I have specialized in the 2 strokes since 1971,22 years with Peninsular Diesel who was the distributor for Michigan.Feel free to scratch my head anytime always willing to throw my $0.02 worth in if it helps Great if not ...............OH WELL:rolleyes:

I am new to forum. I would like to scratch your head on getting max HP out of a 4-53 Detroit. appreciate any help.

[DeezilDoc]

tjmac77 can I ask what you paid for the 4-53T's

[JRM]

I am also a huge Detroit fan, thetechnology used to invent them in the late 40's is 100% amazing, quick reving engines- you tube is packed with tons of awesome videos of everything from 1-53 generator to a huge 12v71tt truck puller. Even a 16v92 and a 24V92 on some navy ship! Just type the engine code you want to see in the search field and your set.
Now for my project, i am set on a simple Allison 545AT but the engine? here are my choices for light weight screaming jimmy's:


6v53Turbo
6v71turbo- same physical size as the 53? just more of a bark and 2600 redline?
4-71

OR

what about a cat 3208 turbo?? its just a tiny bit longer than a 7.3 block!!??

Take a old abused beat up 1987-1994 F350 and drop a cat 3208 and Allison 545 right in?

[ARAMP1]

I'd love to see it. Post up some pics when you get started!

[gophergunner]

DeezilDoc,

You mentioned a while back you had a 4-71 that needed rebuilding, and had an automotive bellhousing with it. Do you still have it? Do you have any other Detroits that you're willing to part with?

Looking to build myself a truck, but some of the wreckers around here don't take me seriously, and the others don't have any engines (good or bad) at all. The smaller Detroits seem to be a little scarce around here.

If your feeling up to it, send me an email.

ssapach@hotmail.com

Thanks

[ARAMP1]

DeezilDoc,

You mentioned a while back you had a 4-71 that needed rebuilding, and had an automotive bellhousing with it.
I've never heard of an automotive bellhousing for an inline 71 series engine. Seen them for inline 53 series though.

[DeezilDoc]

Highway vehicles,Trucks AKA 18 wheelers are automotive. An easy way to identify is by model #'s the 4th deigit in the model # will tell you what application the engine was built for, this is in the General Information section of ALL the service manuals

[ARAMP1]

Sorry, I misunderstood. Automotive vs marine bellhousing, both being SAE. I was thinking you meant automotive such as SM465/chevrolet bellhousing.

[JCampbell1180]

I just came up on a few 6v53's because of a re-power at work and I was considering dropping one in my '77 C30. I think it'd be hot. More of a novelty and not for any real hard core, serious towing more than 10k pounds. I pull a 7k pound skid steer and a 25' travel trailer occasionally. I just want something that will be a little better on fuel than my 454.

Any advice, ideas, encouragement or otherwise?

[JCampbell1180]

Anyone....

[6.5NOVA]

Just do it!!

[gophergunner]

Just do it!!

i agree.........i'd do it!!!!!!!!

[rhsub]

Back in the late 70's i was helped my boss put a 453 in a 77 4wd 1/2 ton suburban. The biggest problem we had was that the engine wasn't working hard enough and would glaze the cylinder walls. He used it as a dd and he pulled trailers often. He put a scraper engine in it first then he bought a brand new engine and we put it in, we had to tear it down after a couple of years and deglaze the cylinders. These engines want to work hard. It was a lot of work to install an a lot of BS to deal with, I had to make a custom oil pan to clear the front diff and we had to make are own bell housing, he used a chrysler 727 with a factory overdrive unit on the back of it, I think it was an od could have been a u/d (long time ago:confused:) anyway that was the only trans like that i ever seen.
Good luck doing the conversion and I hope you still like detroits as much when you are finished, O yea invest in a good set of ear plugs because the don't call them screamin detroits for nuthin
Good luck
If I can be of any assistance let me know rhrepairs@aol .com
Ron

[steponmebbbboom]

hi, im wondering if anyone has considered using a 3-53 in a jeep wrangler, i have a 91 YJ and would love to put a detroit in it. does anyone know also, if the 3-53Ts used in the gama goats were 4 valve head engines?

what would you use as a trans in such a conversion on a jeep wrangler?

[andysfords]

I have been working on a 353 Gamma Goat engine going into a 85 Chevy K20 for a while and I finally finished. I like it, its loud as can be, and it won't run but 60, and you can't run 60 and hear yourself think at the same time, but other than that its great. I bolted it to the stock 4 spd since the bell housing and clutch was still on the motor. The main problem was the radiator sits lower than the engine and I had to make a new filler in the top radiator hose to get the head to fill all the way up with water. I will try to post some pictures. It sits about 3 inches from the axle and about 3 inches from the top of the hood, so the thought of getting it into a jeep is doubtful

[ARAMP1]

I have been working on a 353 Gamma Goat engine going into a 85 Chevy K20 for a while and I finally finished. I like it, its loud as can be, and it won't run but 60, and you can't run 60 and hear yourself think at the same time, but other than that its great. I bolted it to the stock 4 spd since the bell housing and clutch was still on the motor. The main problem was the radiator sits lower than the engine and I had to make a new filler in the top radiator hose to get the head to fill all the way up with water. I will try to post some pictures. It sits about 3 inches from the axle and about 3 inches from the top of the hood, so the thought of getting it into a jeep is doubtful

Wow, can't wait for pics!!!! If you get a chance, please give a pic or two of the motor mounts.

[Liftgate]

Hi. I am an avid detroit diesel fan too and have put a 4-53T in a 1964 chevy suburban 4x4. It wasn't easy but worked okay. I was pretty happy with it overall. I have some part numbers for the bell housing stuff and info on the dimensions for the 4-53 engine if you are interested. Good luck. You may have already done the conversion by now! Scratch my head!

[Liftgate]

Hi Gophergunner. I have been reading the posts here and may have some help for you with the trans. part numbers for the 4-53. I have a 53 series SAE #3 housing too if you are interested. It is the housing that has the round opening for a trans with the SAE bolt pattern with 17 inch bolt to bolt pattern. The adapter adapts the rear housing of the engine to a standard GM bell housing to bolt up to a 4 bolt manual transmission with clutch and all. Not sure if the part numbers are valid anymore though. The adapter uses the standard rear trans mount across the frame. Good luck!:)

[gophergunner]

Hi Gophergunner. I have been reading the posts here and may have some help for you with the trans. part numbers for the 4-53. I have a 53 series SAE #3 housing too if you are interested. It is the housing that has the round opening for a trans with the SAE bolt pattern with 17 inch bolt to bolt pattern. The adapter adapts the rear housing of the engine to a standard GM bell housing to bolt up to a 4 bolt manual transmission with clutch and all. Not sure if the part numbers are valid anymore though. The adapter uses the standard rear trans mount across the frame. Good luck!:)

Well thanks for the info, but sadly my hopes and dreams of a Detroit powered pickup have been put on hold due to going back to school and spending too much time on my off-road project.

But i will keep this in mind if or when my project ever does fire up.

[Liftgate]

Here is some info for anyone interested in the dimensions of a detriot diesel they are contemplating for a conversion into a vehicle.

http://www.powerlinecomponents.com/literature/detroit_diesel/ddc_drawings.htm

[Liftgate]

Here is some info on the specs of the detroit diesel 2 cycle engines.

http://www.powerlinecomponents.com/literature/detroit_diesel/ddc_brochures.htm:)

[MRHELLBILLYDELUXE]

hey every one i am a little lost with my Conversion i have two motors 4-53 and a 4-71 Detroit's and i really don't know what one would be best and could i also use my 5 speed manual tranns that's in the truck now witch is on a 350 and also what about the weight and the rear end so if anyone got any tips i should would be thankful
:confused:

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

Given that you have a 1500, I doubt that the NV3500 you have right now could take the kind of torque that it would get behind these engines. As for your rearend, you have either a 8 1/2" rear or if you have a 6 bolt 1500, you have a 9.5". The 9.5" would stand up better to a diesel for sure.

[MRHELLBILLYDELUXE]

Given that you have a 1500, I doubt that the NV3500 you have right now could take the kind of torque that it would get behind these engines. As for your rearend, you have either a 8 1/2" rear or if you have a 6 bolt 1500, you have a 9.5". The 9.5" would stand up better to a diesel for sure.


but would the tranny fit it ????

[Rafedial1]

but would the tranny fit it ????

I cannot be certain about the Nv3500 bellhousing bolting up to the 4-53 Detroit. That's the least of your worries, getting the correct clutch and flywheel to go with that would be a nightmare!

The Nv3500 is also not the strongest. From another gasser truck forum I have seen them grenade with just a little over 500 ft.-lb, they are only rated at 300 ft.-lb. from New Venture.

From what i can remember the 4-53 Detroits came with a Clarke 280 Vo 22 5 spd. with overdrive as one option.

As for the rear, the 8.5 inch 10-bolt that is in your Silverado is not going to handle the torque. I am almost 100% sure GM equipped a 14-bolt SF rear that came with 6-lugs. They are very rare and $$$$$, I know I have been looking for one. These rears are almost a bolt in. Otherwise you will have to look into alot of fabrication.

Ask this guy what he did. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3qyR2z8xEs

[MRHELLBILLYDELUXE]

I cannot be certain about the Nv3500 bellhousing bolting up to the 4-53 Detroit. That's the least of your worries, getting the correct clutch and flywheel to go with that would be a nightmare!

The Nv3500 is also not the strongest. From another gasser truck forum I have seen them grenade with just a little over 500 ft.-lb, they are only rated at 300 ft.-lb. from New Venture.

From what i can remember the 4-53 Detroits came with a Clarke 280 Vo 22 5 spd. with overdrive as one option.

As for the rear, the 8.5 inch 10-bolt that is in your Silverado is not going to handle the torque. I am almost 100% sure GM equipped a 14-bolt SF rear that came with 6-lugs. They are very rare and $$$$$, I know I have been looking for one. These rears are almost a bolt in. Otherwise you will have to look into alot of fabrication.

Ask this guy what he did. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3qyR2z8xEs


so what would be the best way to go with the tranny and the rear?????

[Liftgate]

Hello HellBillyDeluxe. Maybe I can help you. I am talking about the 4-53 engine. What model is it? I put a 4-53T in a 1964 K10 suburban and it worked okay. I added 2 leaf springs to each side in the front. The rear was the original 10 rear end. I put different gears in it. I used 3.07:1 ratio gears. It held up fine. The trans was a manual 4 speed with granny low. It held up fine. The engine I used had N-50 injectors. What size does yours have? That might make a difference. I have GM part numbers for the adapters for the manual trans from engine to trans/bell housing but they might not be available anymore. It bolts up to the original crossmember for the trans. I have the part number for the flywheel too. It uses an 11 inch clutch and pressure plate I think. It is the original clutch size for my truck. You will need a return fuel line to the tank. I have my engine out now for a rebuild with cross-head pistons. Hopefully I can get it running again this year. Good luck and let me know if you have any questions!:)

[Wing Nut OOA]

wish i had pictures but my dad and his cousin put a 6v53 in his 78 c30.

bent something upfront slightly...went through front tires in about 1500miles.


they said it bolted straight up to the 4spd trany.



my plans for the truck were to go to a drivetrain from one of these

http://www.wnutting.com/Alderfer/golfcourse/images-golfcourse/1993ChevroletDumpTruck.jpg

http://www.prairietruck.com/inventory/amtphoto.ashx?id=1995455&img=1

http://www.murphyauctions.net/images/kenmore06may/131.jpg


i've since picked up a 95 6.5 k2500 and gave my dad his truck back.



i would in the future like to get one of these K3500HD's with a crew cab and put a regular pickup bed on it.

then stick a 6v in there.

[a4stargen]

I had a 4-53 in an IH travelall. Things I disliked: Noise (but that is exactly what you LIKED), fuel economy (only got 12-13 mpg). Things I liked: Power and torque.
My boss had a 4-71 in an old work truck and it always sounded a lot more "sedate" than mine (lower rumble, smoother), not sure why.

If you want to go with the aluminum 4-71, I would recommend investing in an Allison 1000 transmission (if you want A/T) or one of the newer 6 or even 7 speed manuals. The DDAD's rev like there's no tomorrow, but they don't like to lug. Right gears will make the whole experience a LOT better.


I worked at a Detroit Diesel/Allison shop for years. The rotors inside the blower are shaped differently on a 53 series than the other series Detroits (71, 92, etc). The 53 rotors are straight while the 71 are twisted into a spiral shape. That's why a 53 series is louder than a 71, the extra noise from a 53 is coming from the blower.

[gophergunner]

I am now on the hunt for an aluminum block Detroit Diesel. In fact, an engine with aluminum heads and front/rear covers would be ideal.

6V-53 preferrable, but I am also considering a 4-53.

Obviously, I'm willing to pay shipping costs to get it here, so then naturally aluminum would be nicer for that as well.

Running or not, if its an aluminum block I would like to get my hands on it.

Thanks.

[ARAMP1]

Since we're on the subject of aluminum Detroits, here's a pic of my aluminum 4-71 in my 1 ton Silverado.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m163/aramp1/IMG_3449.jpg

A lot has been done to the motor (ceramic coated piston domes and teflon coated skirts), Jet-hot coated exhaust (and turbo), etc. It will also be intercooled. I have a 10 speed Roadranger to go behind it.

[A-310]

Keep us posted on your 4-71 build please. I to am considering the same engine for a Ford F-450 4X4 conversion in the future. Was going to to go with the 4-53T with an RTO6610, but am now looking at the 4-71T with RTO6610 or RTLO14613. The only drawback I can see with the 4-71 is the weight. The difference is around 600 pounds with the transmission, which is a fair amount. I can easily get a front differential that can take the weight, but the main problem I see is getting stuck off road? Weighting for someone who has done this for some feedback for offroad applications. The last thing I want is to get this truck stuck up to the bumper and have to try and tow it out of the bush. lol

[ARAMP1]

The only drawback I can see with the 4-71 is the weight.
That's why I went with an aluminum motor.

[A-310]

That's why I went with an aluminum motor.
Have you weighed the cast iron block and compared it to the aluminum block? Just curious as how much savings there is?

[oshpunit987]

A-310, I ran a 3-71N off and on for 10 years in a 79 Chevy crewcab. Some times I used a 454 and some times I'd put in a 6.2 diesel. I liked it real well but it was very heavy in the front. It was 2WD and when you got off the road you might as well forget about going very far. I was hauling boy scouts into a camping site and had to go up a small hill and it was a little wet and I just barely got started up and lost traction. A little 4WD Toyota had to pull me in. You have to have an overdrive transmission or very tall tires to get any road speed with a 71 series. I had a 25% overdrive and 3.21 1 ton axle. I now have a 4-53T in the truck with a 5 speed direct drive transmission and a 3 speed auxiliary that is abot 27% overdrive and still have the 3.21 axle. It's been in there 13 years with no other swaps.
A 4-53T weighs 1300
3-71N 1525
4-71N 1780
4-71T 1830
6V53N 1485
6V53T 1695
I believe the best one to go with is the 4-53T, mine is supposed to be 170HP and it definitely runs better than the 3-71N did.

You will have to make motor mounts and brackets to mount the belt driven accessories. This forum http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/ has a lot of good info for Detroit swaps. They say your RPM at cruising speed, say 65MPH or what ever speed you plan to cruise at, should be 2,200- 2,300 for a 4-53N and 1,800 -1,900 for a 4-53T. That's where you get the best economy.
My avatar is the 2 transmission in the truck.

[A-310]

A-310, I ran a 3-71N off and on for 10 years in a 79 Chevy crewcab. Some times I used a 454 and some times I'd put in a 6.2 diesel. I liked it real well but it was very heavy in the front. It was 2WD and when you got off the road you might as well forget about going very far. I was hauling boy scouts into a camping site and had to go up a small hill and it was a little wet and I just barely got started up and lost traction. A little 4WD Toyota had to pull me in. You have to have an overdrive transmission or very tall tires to get any road speed with a 71 series. I had a 25% overdrive and 3.21 1 ton axle. I now have a 4-53T in the truck with a 5 speed direct drive transmission and a 3 speed auxiliary that is abot 27% overdrive and still have the 3.21 axle. It's been in there 13 years with no other swaps.
A 4-53T weighs 1300
3-71N 1525
4-71N 1780
4-71T 1830
6V53N 1485
6V53T 1695
I believe the best one to go with is the 4-53T, mine is supposed to be 170HP and it definitely runs better than the 3-71N did.

You will have to make motor mounts and brackets to mount the belt driven accessories. This forum http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/ has a lot of good info for Detroit swaps. They say your RPM at cruising speed, say 65MPH or what ever speed you plan to cruise at, should be 2,200- 2,300 for a 4-53N and 1,800 -1,900 for a 4-53T. That's where you get the best economy.
My avatar is the 2 transmission in the truck.


Thanks for the info. As much as I love the 4-71T, I have decided to go with the 4-53T and a Fuller RTO6610 for my project truck. Recurring nightmares of getting the 4-71T stuck made up my mind, LoL. I've found a 1987 Silver 4-53T that runs but needs an overhaul, so will be purchasing it in the next few days and having it shipped to my dads shop. I think it will have all the power I need, so that's what I've decided to go with. This is a long term project, (3 years) until I get back to Canada, so at the moment I'm collecting all the parts for the build. I'll post some pictures of the engine and a video of the first start before I overhaul it. Thanks again for the help. Do you have any video's or pictures of your setup?
A-310

P.S Sorry for hijacking this post

[oshpunit987]

I don't have any videos but I have a bunch of pictures. I don't know how to put them on here but I could email them to you.

[A-310]

I don't have any videos but I have a bunch of pictures. I don't know how to put them on here but I could email them to you.
That would be great. My email is emerald310@gmail.com. Thanks A-310

[ARAMP1]

I'll take some pics too if you got 'em!

aramp1@gmail.com

[59chevynapco]

hi everyone! this is my first time on this so i dont really no how it works. i joined because i wanted to find out more info on detroit swaps into trucks. i have a 59 chevy one ton with the original napco 4x4 and i wanted to do a 4-53t swap. i was wondering where i could find a bell housing to fit a clark 5 speed? and also i need to find out where i can get a flywheel and a clutch? i wanted to locate all this kinda stuff before i started the project.

[tomtaylor]

Hey guys & girls, I was hoping someof you here may have some experience and recomendations on this......

So I had been planning on dropping my spare Humvee 6.2 into my truck (86 GMC 3/4Ton 4x4 6.2L+th400+4:10's+AC all stock) when my orginal 6.2 siezed up. The problem is that when i dis-assembled the Humvee 6.2 to put new gaskets throughout I found spun rod bearings in #1-2 and a badly damaged crank. I just don't want to spend the money this year on a new build up.

So I have 79 2wd 1/2Ton that is very rusty with a bad th400 but a really strong Goodwrench 350DX unfortunately the milage is unknown but speedo says about 150k+ miles just have no idea when the engine was replaced during that 150k so the engine has something less than that, 75-100-125 who knows. it starts easy, runs great, gets great fuel milage.

I see the th400 bellhousings are different on the two trucks and the position of the engine mounts is different, and of course 6.2L truck is a 4x4 while the 5.7L truck is 2wd. It seems the biggest challenge is that bellhousing because of the position of the 5.7 vac pump and I'm not sure about bolt patterns matching up? (5.7 has the dip in the top of the bellhousing, th400 has the peak at the top).

Is there anyway to put the 5.7L into the 6.2L 4x4 truck with the chev th400 bellhousing? Has anyone done this before? Is there anything else to be aware of with this conversion?

This would be a short term temp setup until I rebuild the 6.2L next year sometime.

Also what about fitting a 6.5 TD into this 86 6.2L 4x4 w/AC? easy or hard?

Anything you can tell me would be great, thanks.
Thomas Taylor

[Homealone777]

Hello all, I'm new to this forum as well; I've been reading up on everyones ideas, and progress, upsides and downsides of the detroit engines. I'm currently looking for a 4-53T myself and I want to drop it in a 1968 IH 2WD 1200 pickup truck. I noticed someone called Journey Man had done this with a Travelall and was wondering what kind of set-up he had in it. I used to drive a Mack truck with an oldtime 2 stick 18 speed, drove that truck for a few yrs. Retired now, and want to do something different. I've gotten to missing changing all those gears, so here's what Lord Willing; I'd like to end up with: That truck, the Detroit 4-53T, and a 3 speed aux. Yes I know detroits reputation, they like it best wide open or close to it anyways. I belive I've found the place with the people who can help me with my endevor. I'd like to keep the trans. and rear end because it has a detroit locker rear end in it now. I know there's got to be a way to get a good gear ratio between the 2 trans. to end up with about 75 MPH top out speed comfortably. I don't hear to good anyhow, so I'm not worried about the noise; I like the sound of those old engines! I've not found an engine yet, but Lord Willing; I will. Please ALL advise would be deeply appreciated...Thanks.

[Nicholas K. Heinrich]

Hi, I'm new and my name is nick. I eventually dream of putting a 500hp DD 8v92TA in an f450 or 500. Am I outta my mind or is it possible? How would I trick the truck computer into not freaking out with an older enigne? Would I have to extend the frame and engine compartment?

[More Power]

I'd begin by finding the length, width, height and weight for the DD. Then compare that to the engine compartment dimensions available in the truck. Somewhere on the net you could likely discover the front axle weight rating for the truck. This'll give you an idea about whther the weight might be an issue or if it'll work fine.

Welcome to the board!

Jim

[Nicholas K. Heinrich]

Length: 48", width: 39", height: 52". Weight: 2500lbs. I've tried to find the axle ratings and engine compartment sizes, but no luck.

[Nicholas K. Heinrich]

May also be looking for a running, doesn't have to be pretty, 2 or 3-71 detroit. How much do they usually run?

[chvycmnslvr68]

I know that I am resurrecting an old thread but I have a couple things to input ... the DD engines can be picked up fairly reasonably any where that there is very much oil feild or mining in the erea ... lots of old pumps and blowers were ran on these engines ....

If someone wants a couple 4-53 engines I have two of them in my boat ... I would like to replace them with either 6BT's or 4BT's ... I just lneed to find the front and rear acceries for the one that runs in reverse ... and the 4-53 is not capable of 170 HP on its own w/o going to a twin turbo setup ... and you would have a hard time cooling it at that HP ... the ones in my boat have 92 series infectors in them and the big turbos ... and then an even larger turbo that runs both engines and are putting out 175 each ... but not capable of that running independently ... and they have unlimited cooling capacity with oversized oil coolers and cooled by the ocean water ... through brass heat exchangers ...

My boat is a 31' mahogany boat thats 11.5' wide ... and weighs a whopping 27Klbs ... Its a major load on my chevy ..

[Liftgate]

hi everyone! this is my first time on this so i dont really no how it works. i joined because i wanted to find out more info on detroit swaps into trucks. i have a 59 chevy one ton with the original napco 4x4 and i wanted to do a 4-53t swap. i was wondering where i could find a bell housing to fit a clark 5 speed? and also i need to find out where i can get a flywheel and a clutch? i wanted to locate all this kinda stuff before i started the project.

Hi. Have you found an engine yet? Have you made any progress on your "project"? I did a 4-53 swap in a 64 Chevy 4X4 suburban. I used the original SM-420 trans and transfer case. I got a bellhousing and flywheel from GM but that was long ago. I think those parts are obsolete now. Does the Clarke trans take a SAE round bellhousing? I am not sure. It should be easy to hook it up anyway. Let me know if you need some help...;)

[diesellover94]

Hey Liftgate, I would love to know the part numbers and where you got everything to do the swap into your 1964 suburban. I have a 1965 Chevy Half ton 4x4 with a 4 speed that I want to do the exact same thing to. Either post on here or email me @ mitchchase350@yahoo.com if you have time. Thank you!

[Liftgate]

Hello diesellover94. Sounds like you have the same rig I started with. That should be easy work. Is your rig a P/U or suburban/carryall? Either way, the running gear, if it is stock, is easy to work with. It was for me. My running gear was stock. I added 2 leaves to each side of the leaf springs on the front. I changed the rear axle ratio to 3:07. I didn't use an auxillary trans but that would help a lot. The set up needed more gears. The shift between 2nd and 3rd was real steep. Do you have power steering? I didn't and it is hard steering at slow speeds. Engine is real heavy. I'll dig for those part numbersand get back with you. Send a pic if you can. :)

[wyodetroit]

Detroit V653 alumuim block engine only 1200 lbs instead of 1900 lbs cast iron block ^v53 engine.
V653 alumuim block Has 4 bolt main craddle all the way down unlike standard cast Iron block.
V653 alumuim block has Higher compression 21:1 proformace with turbo, not 17:1 like non turbo standard cast iron block engines. higher compression starts easier in cold weather.
V653 alumuim block Stock dyno 330hp 800 ft lbs torque with N70 injectors.
HP can be bumped up to
400hp with n90 injectors
650 hp with N 160 injectors
with nitros can go to 950 hp and still be a daily driver.
OIl pressure is high volume oil pump 90 psi unlike standard cast iron 6v53 engines.
more water jackets around sleeves lower down for better and faster cooling.
even though block is alluim block it has brass inserts so it still has full integretiy and strenght.
Twin turbos off of 5.9 cummins 12 valve diesel.
larger oil pan , with speical sump so oil pressure even at masive inclines.
　
　
M113 persnal carrier.
extra water ports in block in lower part of block for exstreme cooling.
But has smae irom pistons and sleves as iron block engine.
Iron heads.
Bell houseing is SAE 3#, but can be changed if needed.
because it is alluim block, it only weighs 1200# lbs instead of 1800 lbs#
stock RPMS
no load 3000 rpms
with load 2800 rpms
detroit diesel had fire ring head gaskets before it was cool.
Detroit also had the first roller cam stock that all newer gas engines now have.
wwII won.
Also will run any fuel, diesel , keresene, waste oil, gasoline oil mix, if it burns engine can be made to run on it.
　
　
　

[firetruckman]

Hey all I am new to the website and looking for some quick information. I recently purchased a 1983 Hahn fire engine and it has an 8V71N in it. It does not have jakes on it and I have been looking for a used parts kit. It is a 12 volt system and has an Allison auto transmission. Currently I have found a used parts kit for approximately $2800. That is everything (the jakes, valve covers, fuel lines, exhaust bridges, wiring harness etc.) I am just looking for opinions on that price and if anyone on here might actually have a parts kit themselves or know of somebody that might have one.

[Yukon6.2]

Hi
I've had 8v71's before.
That seems high to me,look for some old truck wrecking yard.I bought a cutoff cab and engine complete for $200 with a running engine that had Jakes on it.A complete AM rebuild kit was under $1000 when i did an inframe on mine.
These were a popular engine,Often refereed to as a 318 Jimmy.They were used a lot in buses.Make sure that whoever installs the Jakes knows how to set up the injectors.One guy i had do some work on my 671 didn't set things up right and it ran away....:eek: :eek::eek:.Scariest time i'v ever had working on trucks,it was my fuel truck with about 2500 gallons of fuel in the tank.The engine sounded nice...then began to rev up....and up ..and up..it was sreaming away he was trying to block the air with a piece of plywood and it kept racing away.I grabed a filter wrench and spun the filter off and it died.My face was about a foot away from the block as i'm trying to spin the filter off,all i could think about was a rod coming out at me.
Thomas

[a5150nut]

671'as used to have a flip lever on the blower to stop runaways.

[firetruckman]

Cool. I have now found a used parts fit for 2000. I know it just seems to be slim pickings around this area.

[EthanJansen]

I am new to this site but I have a 1975 k30 dually I purchased without a engine it is a single cab I want to swap a 4-71 dd into it and a rto910 ten speed. I saw that gophergunner has done this swap but I need more info on what all he had todo to make engine and trans fit. I'm not building a show truck just a weekend haul truck to pull a 35 foot gooseneck and my pulling tractors to the tractor pulls. Any info would be great.

[trainwreckind]

This is my first post, I'm hoping to gain information on my x Oregon transit bus. 1967 tdh 4519.
Its the 6v-71, automatic v drive.
I found this site by general search, would be great to learn more than I have been able to on my own.
I'm considering installing an auxiliary (2nd) drive train (engine, trans and dually axle)
Out of a 78 winnebago that has a 440.
The Detroit setup is in the rear, I would install the gas setup as a mid engine.
Thoughts anyone?
I'm curious about structure, this bus seems a lot like a unibody vw bus x10

[Detroit 8V92TA]

Hi, New here. N. Eastern PA What type of equipment or vehicle would have a 4-53t that would be best suited for a 1 ton swap? And what is the average going rate for one in decent running condition? Also possibly a 6v53t, though if I went 6v53t , It would be in a medium duty truck. Thanks in advance for any input. PS I'd be going with an auto, Allison at545, etc

[journeyman]

Hi, New here. N. Eastern PA What type of equipment or vehicle would have a 4-53t that would be best suited for a 1 ton swap? And what is the average going rate for one in decent running condition? Also possibly a 6v53t, though if I went 6v53t , It would be in a medium duty truck. Thanks in advance for any input. PS I'd be going with an auto, Allison at545, etc

I ran a 453 for a few years and got real tired of it. It is noisy and not fuel efficient and doesn't have the bottom end torque other engines have.

It does have a very unique sound that I liked (but a little too much of it), but I would never own one again. The 6BT engine seems like a much more capable engine in a smaller vehicle. I would choose one of those any day over the Detroit.

[Detroit 8V92TA]

Thanks for the heads up about Detroit drawbacks. I do like Cummins also, however the Detroit swap won't be a daily driver. More or less a unique"toy" if a 6v53t is ridiculously underpowered and fuel thirsty, well I'm not worried about poor fuel economy. Power, yes. Though if a 6v53t is wayyy underpowered for a single axle medium duty, example: International 4700, perhaps a silver 6v92ta would be adequate. With all due respect, I value your input about getting tired of the noise and low end issues, however I can't seem to see why a 6v92ta wouldn't be adequate? Do I need to step up to a 8v92ta? Thanks again.

[journeyman]

Thanks for the heads up about Detroit drawbacks. I do like Cummins also, however the Detroit swap won't be a daily driver. More or less a unique"toy" if a 6v53t is ridiculously underpowered and fuel thirsty, well I'm not worried about poor fuel economy. Power, yes. Though if a 6v53t is wayyy underpowered for a single axle medium duty, example: International 4700, perhaps a silver 6v92ta would be adequate. With all due respect, I value your input about getting tired of the noise and low end issues, however I can't seem to see why a 6v92ta wouldn't be adequate? Do I need to step up to a 8v92ta? Thanks again.

The silver 6v92 is a very potent (and heavy) engine. I am guessing you will not be disappointed with it. With nearly 75% more displacement than the 6v53, the two engines aren't really comparable other than the number of cylinders.