96 6.5 TD No Start

[idagon]

Hi guys,

This is my first post, this is an awesome site for help.

I just purchased a 96 Chevy 3/4 ton P/u at a dealer auction. And it was a no runner.(ignition lock cyl was bad) Dont know how long it was sitting.

Fixed the lock cyl. and now the engine turns over good, has fuel to the injectors, no sign of water. Has 3/4 tank of fuel.

I bled out the lines at the injectors,and the filter, has power to the shutoff solenoid. All glow plugs have power and test good (.7-.8 ohms)

No codes in the computer, it occasionally wants to fire, but not enough to run.

Can I check IP timing with my OTC Genisys without the engine running?


Any Ideas?

[rameye]

I might be inclined to change the fuel filter and flow it...check the pressure at the water drain..

Next seeing as you bled all the injectors...(guess you took the turbo off) why not pull them and have them checked..

I dont think you can get a timing reading while just cranking....even so I dont think it'll be accurate.

Maybe you could turn the pump a 1/16th to the drivers side and giver a try.

Check all your fuses....especially the ECM's...check all your grounds...batt connections...make sure you have good voltage...

A bad PMD will result in a "no start also" with no codes...buy or borrow a known good one...(you should have a spare anyway)

as you know a compression test really tells the ultimate tale..

tell us how you make out.. good luck, be patient.

[idagon]

Well I tested the compression, and crud, I get 75lbs on one, 125 on another and 145lbs on 2 others.
I checked 3 on one side, and one on the other.(that was enough info for me)

I am contemplating either rebuilding this one or buying a used one.
Maybe they overheated it? it has 149,000

I did find a used '93 engine for $2200 with 107,000 on it.

Hmm

What would you guys do?

[tommac95]

Many of these blocks run 300,000 miles+. Whenever one needs reworking one needs to determine if the block is rebuildable before planning much further. The blocks do sometines crack ; the headgaskets wear grooves in the firedeck that need removal(resurfacing) before good new seals can be obtained.

Some possibilities are mentioned:
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=27688


i think diesels need 300Lbs compression+ to function.

[idagon]

what do you think about these guys:

www.65ldiesel.com

they have a rebuilt for $2300

http://www.dieselenginemotor.com/diesel/engines/1811,1.html

[Robyn]

My advice before you run out and buy anything is to get that engine out of the truck and get inside it.

Depending on its history it may be nothing more than stuck rings.

Do a careful post mortem and then decide what to do.

As was mentioned these little beast can and do often see some very high miles.
I have a 94 Burb that has 257 now on the clock and I went through the sucker last spring due to a blown head gasket.

Get it apart and then let us know. :D

Robyn

[idagon]

I have an option to get a 1993 TD complete with 103,000 miles on it. It runs great.

If I use this engine, should I leave the 93 injector pump on and run without the computer?

If I get the 93 engine, the truck can be running soon, and I have a lot of extra parts from the 96 engine (pump, turbo, switches sensors,solenoid)
I then can rebuild or repair the 96 and sell it .

[DmaxMaverick]

I have an option to get a 1993 TD complete with 103,000 miles on it. It runs great.

If I use this engine, should I leave the 93 injector pump on and run without the computer?

If I get the 93 engine, the truck can be running soon, and I have a lot of extra parts from the 96 engine (pump, turbo, switches sensors,solenoid)
I then can rebuild or repair the 96 and sell it .

I'd suggest replacing the long block, and keep all the electronics, for now. Converting to MFI isn't a light undertaking. You will need mechanical means of controlling the throttle, tranny, wastegate, etc, and the computer won't be happy with all the missing sensor inputs. You can convert at a later time, if necessary. However, if you discover some of your issues to be electronic related, your plans may change.

[idagon]

Im replacing the '96 with the '93,

what do I need to transfer from the '96 engine? to make it a smooth convert?

[DmaxMaverick]

Pretty much everything. You should just be replacing the long block. Be sure to keep the '96 balancer (or replace it if necessary), reluctor wheel and timing cover to accept the CPS (Crank Position Sensor). The accessory brackets are very likely different, but I don't recall exactly.

[idagon]

what needs replacing if I use the '93 system?

which is better?

[DmaxMaverick]

That depends on what you mean by better. Converting to MFI (using the '93 stuff) will be much more costly and time consuming. Depending on how you use it, it could also mean less economy. The EFI's are capable of more power and better fuel mileage. The computer systems are very different, too. If you have an auto tranny, you will need a computer to control it. What you have now will do that as it always has. If you convert to the '93, you'll either have to get a '93 computer to contol the tranny, or a stand alone TCM ($$). The APP (skinny pedal) will also need replacing. The '96 is drive by wire (electronic pedal), and the '93 is cable. Also, you will be crossing the OBD line. 93 is OBD-I, and 96 is OBD-II. A complete job would require a complete wiring harness. Other systems to consider are the ABS, SRS, and fuel/boost management. Depending on where you are located, it could also create serious issues with emmissions inspections. Much more details can be found in the Diesel Conversions Forum (http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/forumdisplay.php?f=58) and other forums. It may be a good idea to start a new thread there, or I can move this thread to there.

For ease of installation, it would be best to just replace the long block and keep the '96 electronics. Time and money will allow you to convert it later. It won't take any more considerable time to replace the long block now, and convert later. Either way, you have to replace the long block. Converting is a whole new project, and converting back if you change your mind will be another project.

[idagon]

Thanks for the reply Dmax,

It sound like there is no benefit to using the older 93 system then.(since 96 has potential for more power and mileage)

when installing the IP from the 96 onto the 93, is it just a bolt on, and align timing mark, or is there a special procedure? (relearn...)

[DmaxMaverick]

Line up the timing marks the same on both engines, and it's a direct swap. If you get the IP installed at the same clock, you won't have to deal with timing it. Scribe the timing cover and pump on the '96 so you can install the pump at the same clock position once on the '93 engine. It would also be a good time to replace the timing set and water pump. Go with the high volume WP, and while you're at it, install the 97+ dual stat crossover. It'll never be easier than now, since you are already in there.

[idagon]

Thanks Dmax,

are the injectors the same?

[idagon]

OK,

I got the 93 long block running with all the 96 stuff transferred. New timing chain, 5521 pump ,FSD.

Fired right up.

Now, the desired and pump timing was off. 11.7deg cold

I back it down and now its at 8.7deg desired and 8.7deg actual.

the tdc offset is at -1.2


what do I do now- to get 8.5deg and -1.50- -1.94

I have an OTC Genisys and the CarCode software.
I cant seem to get either one to be able to learn the offset.

[idagon]

I relearned the TDC Offset by the KO KO method.

it resets to -1.2 after warm up.

pump actual timing goes from 10.9 cold to 8.7 at 180deg.

should I move the pump?