View Full Version : Diesel Direct block/crank arrived
Well, I'm short for words right now. I was able to take some pictures. Shown below is what arrived on my pallet that arrived today. Needless to say, I refused delivery due to damage. Also take note of the broken crankshaft, -it is supposed to be forged, -not a chance.
Regarding the crankshaft, take a close look at the grain where the break is and tell me this piece is forged. There also did not appear to be ANY shear-line like what you would typically see on a forged piece. In addition to that, a "parting line" was nowhere to be seen, -like as if they ground it off to hide the fact that it is a cast piece, -then sandblasted it to blend the grind marks, -not impressed. I'm almost glad to see it broken on the pallet, -instead of it being in my motor.
The pallet was also supposed to have my main/rod bearings, -which appear to have departed the pallet somewhere between Florida and Oregon. :mad:
http://www.spiritone.com/~ratman/diesel_direct/image2.jpg
http://www.spiritone.com/~ratman/diesel_direct/image3.jpg
http://www.spiritone.com/~ratman/diesel_direct/image1.jpg
http://www.spiritone.com/~ratman/diesel_direct/image4.jpg
http://www.spiritone.com/~ratman/diesel_direct/image5.jpg
Rich.
a5150nut
05-18-2007, 21:27
That is sad. How could a shipping company even deliver something in that shape. But better now than later.
Must be what that little mushroom cloud was I saw to the north today. Hope it gets better from here..........:(
Dang! that is some rough machining in the cylinder bores. The chamfer looks like it was put in with a hand file and a chisel. I think you got lucky with the shipping. I hope you get your money back and get some good iron soon. I know you're anxious to start building a good engine.
Dang! that is some rough machining in the cylinder bores. The chamfer looks like it was put in with a hand file and a chisel. I think you got lucky with the shipping. I hope you get your money back and get some good iron soon. I know you're anxious to start building a good engine.
Actually, to be totally honest, the machining on the block looked pretty darn nice. The chamfers were nice and smooth. What you are seeing in the photos is the damage created from the crank beating the block to death all the way from Florida. The machining on the block from what I could tell looked to be excellent. The metal the block was made of looked pretty good too.
If it wasn't for the damage done to the block, I would have accepted it. Seeing the crank broken and what it's made of though is a huge red flag. The block looked fine (except for the damage), the crank don't look right, -broken or not. It looks cast, -just by the color and finish. I've seen plenty of forged cranks in my lifetime, -and this one sure don't look like one.
Ah man that looks freaking horrid, what in hells fire happened to that stuff.
By the looks of it they must have lost it from the truck at 50 ml an hour.
That crank looks like a pretty bad casting if you ask me.
Now what
http://www.spiritone.com/~ratman/diesel_direct/image2.jpg
http://www.spiritone.com/~ratman/diesel_direct/image3.jpg
http://www.spiritone.com/~ratman/diesel_direct/image1.jpg
http://www.spiritone.com/~ratman/diesel_direct/image4.jpg
http://www.spiritone.com/~ratman/diesel_direct/image5.jpg
Rich.
I posted a reply at The Place, but I will comment here too. That crank is not a forging, obviously, but it isn't even nodular cast iron (or they screwed up the nodular alloy and process bif time). From the looks of the break I would say it is gray cast iron. HEre's a pic of a broken nodular iron crank:
http://defiant.blogdns.com:5002/Blazer/pics/misc/05062401m.jpg
That is a fatigue break, but you can see the difference in the look. This is what a nodular iron or medium carbon forged steel crank looks like when it breaks, and no nodular or steel crank is going to break from being dropped or mishandled. Bent and distorted perhaps, but not broken.
The cylinders look like they were honed with a worn out dingleball hone. They are too coarse, inconsistent, and a bit glazed. Lotsa luck getting good ring sealing with that finish.
All please bow their heads as we say a few solemn words on behalf of the dearly departed.
I talked with Rich yesterday afternoon and knew of this mess a few hours before he posted it.
I am sad that what was hopefully going to be a viable alternative for 6.5 owners has turned Ugly.
The conversation I had with the fellow at Diesel direct a few weeks ago ran up a few red flags but I really wanted to see the products before I sounded the sirens.
The crank is obviously a POS.
I went out last night and took a 20 Pound sledge to an old 6.2 crank thats laying out here in the heap just to see how it would fare from some rough handling.
This crank had already suffered the loss of two rods and some really harsh abuse in its final minutes of life.
I whacked that sucker several times with the 20 pounder and did not succeed in breaking it.
I hit it in areas that should have broke it if it was gonna break.
A forged crank should handle a drop off of a 5 story building and not snap.
It might bend but not snap, especially with such grainy texture.
Well we all can see that the crank was not a forged piece as was advertised.
As for the block, the cylinder hone marks dont disturb me much as the block has a cosmoline type coating and a flash illuminated pix can really make things look different than they really are.
A good cross hatch pattern is lovely and required to get good ring seating. Now if the finish is rough thats a different story.
I did not get up close and intimate with this stuff so I am forming opinions based on the same things the rest of you can see.
As I said before, some red flags went up after my conversation with Kris a few weeks ago.
The number one issue with me was, that after asking him why the 6.5 Block was not featured on the web site he replied, " We are trying to keep it sort of quiet"
Hmmmmm :eek: Why would anyone that has a good product want to keep it sort of quiet?????????
I for one would think that a seller with something like this that was worth anything would be out on the street corner pimping the hell out of it.
If this stuff was good it would sell like hot cakes.
Something very fishy going on here.
NOW For the packaging :eek:
I have bought new blocks from various sources as well as cranks and they dont come loose on a pallet.
The last crank I got was from scat. The sucker was in a very heavy box with plywood end stiffeners and the sucker was well padded.
To ship a crank loose on a shingle with the block is unthinkable.
Anyway, I not going to beat on this any more.
I was excited that maybe this was going to be a good thing.
NOT :mad:
To all out there, this is crap and dont even think of buying from these guys.
Rich my friend
Get ahold of your card company and stop payment on this junk.
Lets get together and scare up a good used 6.5 and we can put together a good engine for you.
Too bad all the time was lost waiting for a pallet full of scrap iron.
I will start looking for a good block for a foundation.
You have your fresh rods and such along with the pistons that did show up so you are well on your way.
Get a set of Clearwater heads to top it off and things will be sweet.
Maybe this whole thing was a blessing in disguise. :D
Later
Robyn
arveetek
05-19-2007, 09:18
NOW For the packaging :eek:
I have bought new blocks from various sources as well as cranks and they dont come loose on a pallet.
The last crank I got was from scat. The sucker was in a very heavy box with plywood end stiffeners and the sucker was well padded.
To ship a crank loose on a shingle with the block is unthinkable.
Robyn
That was my first thought when I looked at the pictures. Who in their right mind would ship a "new" block and "new" crank on a bare open pallet? Even a lot of junk yards who ship used junk know better than that. If I was spending that kind of money on new parts like that, I'd expect a heavy duty crate that takes you an hour to get into, and where you end up cussing the guy who put it together, but at least the parts are safe, secure, and undamaged when you finally reach them.
Casey
All please bow their heads as we say a few solemn words on behalf of the dearly departed.
I talked with Rich yesterday afternoon and knew of this mess a few hours before he posted it.
I am sad that what was hopefully going to be a viable alternative for 6.5 owners has turned Ugly.
The conversation I had with the fellow at Diesel direct a few weeks ago ran up a few red flags but I really wanted to see the products before I sounded the sirens.
The crank is obviously a POS.
I went out last night and took a 20 Pound sledge to an old 6.2 crank thats laying out here in the heap just to see how it would fare from some rough handling.
This crank had already suffered the loss of two rods and some really harsh abuse in its final minutes of life.
I whacked that sucker several times with the 20 pounder and did not succeed in breaking it.
I hit it in areas that should have broke it if it was gonna break.
A forged crank should handle a drop off of a 5 story building and not snap.
It might bend but not snap, especially with such grainy texture.
Well we all can see that the crank was not a forged piece as was advertised.
As for the block, the cylinder hone marks dont disturb me much as the block has a cosmoline type coating and a flash illuminated pix can really make things look different than they really are.
A good cross hatch pattern is lovely and required to get good ring seating. Now if the finish is rough thats a different story.
I did not get up close and intimate with this stuff so I am forming opinions based on the same things the rest of you can see.
As I said before, some red flags went up after my conversation with Kris a few weeks ago.
The number one issue with me was, that after asking him why the 6.5 Block was not featured on the web site he replied, " We are trying to keep it sort of quiet"
Hmmmmm :eek: Why would anyone that has a good product want to keep it sort of quiet?????????
I for one would think that a seller with something like this that was worth anything would be out on the street corner pimping the hell out of it.
If this stuff was good it would sell like hot cakes.
Something very fishy going on here.
NOW For the packaging :eek:
I have bought new blocks from various sources as well as cranks and they dont come loose on a pallet.
The last crank I got was from scat. The sucker was in a very heavy box with plywood end stiffeners and the sucker was well padded.
To ship a crank loose on a shingle with the block is unthinkable.
Anyway, I not going to beat on this any more.
I was excited that maybe this was going to be a good thing.
NOT :mad:
To all out there, this is crap and dont even think of buying from these guys.
Rich my friend
Get ahold of your card company and stop payment on this junk.
Lets get together and scare up a good used 6.5 and we can put together a good engine for you.
Too bad all the time was lost waiting for a pallet full of scrap iron.
I will start looking for a good block for a foundation.
You have your fresh rods and such along with the pistons that did show up so you are well on your way.
Get a set of Clearwater heads to top it off and things will be sweet.
Maybe this whole thing was a blessing in disguise. :D
Later
Robyn
please quit hitting enter after every sentence.........it's not a typewriter.
I thought that by this morning I would be feeling better about the whole mess, -it ain't happenin.
Add to that, my own kid doesn't want to come see me after being on vacation with his mom for a week (divorced).
Screw it, I think I'm gonna fire up the jeep and go watch the boat races today.
Grape
Take a deep breath and relax. you will get over it.:D
I grew up on a typwriter so WHAT :p
Geez, -grape, -I just noticed I do the same thing!!
Can't please everyone.
Dang, I did it again........
Rich
Give me a call on my cell
Im in the shop today in town.
Ooooops there goes that double space again. :D
Lovya grape ;)
Robyn
arveetek
05-19-2007, 13:30
please quit hitting enter after every sentence.........it's not a typewriter.
Please stop quoting entire posts when it's not necessary........it's hard on us dial-up users!
;)
Casey
trbankii
05-19-2007, 21:19
Wow!
Ok, the goods were made out of the wrong stuff... And they weren't "bolted down" for shipping...
Still, what in the heck did the shipper do to that stuff?
I'm reminded of those commercials for luggage with the gorilla back in the baggage department.
Although, I have witnessed on two occasions the DHL deliver guy throw a box from the street onto my neighbor's porch, bouncing it off the front wall of the house and down... First problem is for whatever is in the box. Second problem is bouncing it off the house...
Please stop quoting entire posts when it's not necessary........it's hard on us dial-up users!
;)
Casey
watch it or i'll quote the pictures............lol
Chicago TDP
05-19-2007, 21:34
Rich, I would say that you can never get a break but it looks like you were shipped one. Had to say that, sorry, but all joking aside, that is just not cool. That has got to be one crazy fracture.
I have never seen a crank snap in that area and I have a baker's dozen of fractured cranks.
Can you get your money back? That is just not cool man. I was looking forward to your build and helping you out in any way that I could.
Rich, I would say that you can never get a break but it looks like you were shipped one. Had to say that, sorry, but all joking aside, that is just not cool. That has got to be one crazy fracture.
I have never seen a crank snap in that area and I have a baker's dozen of fractured cranks.
Can you get your money back? That is just not cool man. I was looking forward to your build and helping you out in any way that I could.
Chicago, thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it. Yeah, -I'm going to try to get my money back, -although it could prove to be a challenge, -we'll have to see. If the credit card company isn't willing to help me out, the whole project could be financially delayed, -hopefully that isn't the case.
Looks like I'm back to lookin' for a block,............-again.
-Rich.
That very obviously is a forged steal crank - too bad we don't have one of those special markers banks and cashiers use on our new monopoly money to distinguish real vs forged specimens.
This thread should go down as a significant milestone in the anals of 6.5 crankshaft history.
All joking aside, this has got to be one of the best examples of poor service that I have ever seen.
The seller was full of it up to their eybrows.
Now I have worked in shipping and have physically loaded trucks with fork lifts and cranes and such and some times things do get bumped a little.
This issue here was mostly neglect on the part of the seller to crate the product properly.
The very least that should have been done was the block should have been protected with some OSB (Or Plywood) pieces and then banded with steel banding to the pallet.
The crank should have been in a heavy cardboard (preferably wood) box and also banded to the pallet.
The gorillas at the laoding dock (shipping company) are pushed to make deadlines and get trucks on the road so they dont care much about the item on the pallet.
They drive them forklifts like there was a sasquatch on their butt and if they miss the pallet slots the first time, OH well.
The whole issue here was poor crating.
Now as far as the broken crank goes, this actually is a great thing in as much as it tells the whole virtual diesel shop world just what sort of junk they are peddling.
My gut feeling is that the block and the crank may very well be of different quality and to judge all at this point may be a little remiss on our parts.
I bought a used 6.2 block from a fellow off of ebay and it was on the road for almost a month. (had it shipped as a fill in so it cost far less)
The box was constructed from 2x4's for the base and stiffeners and the outer panels were 1/2 inch OSB and the sucker was put together with sheet rock screws.
The guy used a double handful of them little suckers to fasten the thing together.
Took me half an hour to get it all apart and get at the block.
Now it gets interesting, the block had been tanked and the fellow did not want it to rust so he mopped it down all over with graphite (Black) wheel bearing grease. :eek: OMG what a mess to cleqan up. But ya know the block was in perfect shape and a few minutes with a degreaser and the hot washer and it was spotless.
Perfect job of packaging, although a bit overkill.
I have no doubt that Rich can get this taken care of as he has digital pix of the materials as they came to his shop on the truck.
The seller can howl all he likes but the pix dont lie, someones gonna eat that load of scrap iron. :rolleyes:
Rich , if you like I could email Kris the phone number for Sandford and Son :D
This does one other thing in that it shows all of us the importance to inspect anything that is shipped before you let the driver get away.
Take pictures of any damage and document any items that are shown on the bill of lading but not present in the shippment.
I did some looking yesterday for some used blocks and came up with a few leads but no real good ones for 6.5's
Found 3 6.2 engines (black) that were for sale at $50 each.
Mostly the 6.5's I found were complete and in rigs and not running.:confused:
Too tough to get rid of the old corpse after you yank the engine.
Well I have a feeling all will turn out well in due time though.
Later all
OH BTW Grape here is a couple extra spaces for ya :D :D
Bye love ya all
Robyn
Call this a blessing in disguise, had it been shipped with main brgs and crank installed it might not have beedn caught untill it was started and went BOOM.
And of course it would have been your fault for improper assembly.
And you would play he!! getting any money back then.
I'll stick with Kennedy,Penninsular, the guys with a track record and stand behind what they sell.
Merle
robscarab
05-21-2007, 01:45
Holy Crap,
Im glad I have decided to wait and learn before buying/building my new engine! As the owner of a contracting company I recieved shipments daily for 11 years. They came from all over the world ,diesel engine parts,hydraulic components, undercarriage parts etc. NEVER have I seen or heard of anything like that from my shipper/reciever gals.
I am concerned that the shipping company didnt report this mess when it happened?? Are they a multinational or just a little independant? Somebody should be canned from this company...more than one of them knew what happened and bringing that crap to your door without reporting an accident with it is fraud as far as I am concerned. They new, They decided to bring it to you anyway...and hope to avoid paying what they owe.
As the others have said, it is a blessing in disguise to find out about the bogus forged crank now instead of later. Thats another story altogether!
I really hope this gets resolved quickly and you find some honest folks to deal with. Nobody deserves this crap....
All the best and hope you get up and running soon!!
Rob
Hmmmm
I am just thinking that GMCTD may be right ????
Maybe the only 6.5 crank to snap and never have turned a single revolution under power. :eek:
Terrible thing for sure.
Robyn
7.4 VORTEC
05-21-2007, 17:41
Wow,
I'm so sorry to see this happen to you Ratman. I have a couple of questions for Ratman, Robyn, etc...has anyone ever been to Diesel Directs actual premises? Right now, I'm betting that dd's business is mainly drop ship. I did not see anything on his website that would actually need to be stocked and couldn't be dropped shipped from either a distributor or manufacturer.
Also, please note his warranty/guarantee. It is written so he never has to pay more than 20% of the total cost (whether it's labor, parts, etc). Hmmm, 20% huh, maybe thats pretty close to the profit margin he works off of, so even if he has to eat 20% he still breaks even. He definately has one of the most B.S. warranty conditions I've ever seen.
Now if I see the pics correctly, the block and crank were not "attached" to the pallet, is this right? You'll not be able to go after the shipping company IMHO. They have a set of packaging rules and guidelines. If you don't package and attach your goods for the type of product it is, they won't give you the time of day (nor should they). If that pallet is in a truck and the truck slams on the brakes....I could see how a block rolling over a crank might break it (especially this beauty).
Please don't delay...start communications with your CC company and forward copies of the pics and description of what happened to them asap with certified type mail. You really need to stay on top of this so you can get your money back.
Good luck,
George
I spoke to Rich this afternoon and he tells me that the seller has returned calls and is going to make this all right.
Seems that the shippers truck was wrecked and thats why the parts were so badly messed up.
Seems the shipper has already made it known that they will be paying for the damages.
Rich will no doubt fill in the bare spots when gets back up here.
We shall see how this all comes out in the end.
later
Robyn
a5150nut
05-21-2007, 21:32
I had 5 sets of end trucks for overhead cranes (10in channel with wheels, gear drives, motors) on hold because they couldn't locate them. I talked to the dock boss and he said call me back in an hour and a half. Looking at my watch, hmmm, hour and a half and he will be off shift and I start all over again. So I called his boss. Any way the short of it was when delivered they looked like they ran into the trailer with the forks about 4 feet in the air and slammed on the brakes to unload them. One gear box cracked, two motors bent so bad they wouldn't run, two shafts bent, and numerous greese fittings broke off.
I was under time constraints on delivery to job site so I had to accept them but they did send a rep two days later to look at the damage and they paid for everything, including labor to repair/ replace parts. They even overnited the replacemnet parts to me.
It had to have been the dock monkies playing or somthing. But they did right by me in the end. Just had to swallow the agravation. One bad empolyee can ruin a company.
Hope Ratmans mess works out for the best. Even if you can't see it yet.
For the record, Kris and I have been in contact, and there is a game plan in place to get this resolved. Kris even told me on the phone that I shouldn't have to pay for that stuff, and gave me a big atta boy for not taking delivery of the broken stuff. As Robyn mentioned, the freight company admitted to Kris that they rolled a truck on an offramp.
Looking at the bright side, -this could be a win-win for all of us, -including Diesel Direct. Kris is also very aware of the crankshaft situation he has on his hands (with his supplier).
I am very pleased that Kris and I were able to discuss this. He seems like he is more than willing to do the right thing, and hopefully he is a man of his word. I also have to give credit where it is due, -I had my Mahle 18:1's, timing chain, master kit, etc. within 1 week of me placing the order with Double D. Right now, my plan is to find another block and crank.
One of the members here is helping me out on a potentially good 506 block, so hopefully my project can keep moving forward (thank you!).
You folks are such a great group, -thanks for helping me keep what little sanity I have. ;)
Maybe this thing WILL actually run again after all!
-Rich.
Well lets all hope everything comes out good in the end.
I personally would love to get my hands on one of those blocks from D-D and have a go with it.
The crank is another matter though. I probably would choose a crank from Scat and go from there.
If I can manage it after all this stuff settles out and thing simmer down I may just order a block from D-D and fit it with a crank from scat and heads from Clearwater and then torture the poor little creature to see just how good it is.
Its been a long time since I really had any spark of interest in useing an engine in a way that could be considered hard but this might be the time to do such a project.
Anyway its good to finally see some honest answers to the issues that came forth here.
I am just sorry that for now we are not going to see the materials.
Later troops
Robyn
TurboDiverArt
05-22-2007, 18:14
Since the block is sort of trashed.... any chance of getting a chip for analysis? Maybe drop the pieces of the crank on the block a few more times until a chip falls off... :rolleyes: How much metal is needed for analysis? Would a scraping due?
Art.
Since the block is sort of trashed.... any chance of getting a chip for analysis? Maybe drop the pieces of the crank on the block a few more times until a chip falls off... :rolleyes: How much metal is needed for analysis? Would a scraping due?
Art.
Well, unfortunately, I had to refuse the shipment on the spot. As it was, I was running around looking for batteries for the digital camera at work, etc. I really didn't expect to have to refuse it. I was pushed for time, because the driver was trying to keep on his schedule. He was nice enough to let me screw around trying to get the camera working and taking all the pictures. I wonder what he would have said if I would have taken my cordless drill to the block and started drilling to get some chips?!! :eek:
A good friend of mine from the other board is getting one, so we will eventually be able to find out. Too bad it was trashed in the wreck, -I would have kept it otherwise, -it looked great. It actually looked like good iron, -versus that crank.
Speaking of the crank, -Kris at DD is in the process of sending my friend from the other board a sample crank to have an analysis done on it. I'm impressed that he would do that, -it's certainly better than doing nothing at all, -if you ask me.
I hope the man comes through for me. I have requested reimbursement for the block, crank, and the shipping cost for the block and crank. I am opting to keep the master kit (rings, 18:1 pistons, bearings, gaskets) that he sent me UPS (paid for of course). He agreed to refund me my money for the block, crank, and shipping the very day he receives the stuff back at his shop.
One of the members here at the page is in the process of "hooking me up" with a 506 block, -and since Kris is out of stock on the blocks now, -I decided to go with something other than DD's block. The crank, -well, that's a no brainer! ;)
(Just in case y'all are wonderin' why I'm doin' what I'm doin')
Thank you all for tagging along with me on this adventure.
-Rich.
TurboDiverArt
05-23-2007, 04:24
Oh yeah Rich, I forgot you had to refuse it. Hopefully your friend will get some block samples. Cranks can be had it seems with maybe a real forged or billet one coming. Blocks are the real problem.
Anyone ever try Hi Performer? They also offer new AMG engines as well. Rebuilt 599 long block, 100K/7-year warrantee for $2900. Seems reasonable with that kind of warrantee. I figure since it's a used block, if it's going to make it to 100K it's probably going to last the life of the truck.
http://www.hiperformer.com/engines/chevy-k2500_suburban-rebuilt_engines-gmc_395tlb_1_3.html
Art.
keplinger78
05-23-2007, 06:04
Oh yeah Rich, I forgot you had to refuse it. Hopefully your friend will get some block samples. Cranks can be had it seems with maybe a real forged or billet one coming. Blocks are the real problem.
Anyone ever try Hi Performer? They also offer new AMG engines as well. Rebuilt 599 long block, 100K/7-year warrantee for $2900. Seems reasonable with that kind of warrantee. I figure since it's a used block, if it's going to make it to 100K it's probably going to last the life of the truck.
http://www.hiperformer.com/engines/chevy-k2500_suburban-rebuilt_engines-gmc_395tlb_1_3.html
Art.
That's the best deal I have seen,You can get it balanced for a little xtra...
Later Tom K.
ronniejoe
05-23-2007, 06:23
Rebuilt 599 long block, 100K/7-year warrantee for $2900.
That warranty doesn't apply to diesels.
Q: What is the warranty on a long block?
A: 7 Year/100,000 Mile (excluding marine, diesel, and anything over 1 ton)
Q: What is the warranty on long block marines, diesels, and engines over 1 ton?
A: 12 Month/12,000 Mile
I tried to buy one of those back in March and they said they no longer offer them for sale because of high warranty returns. (why the web adverts?) They did offer to sell a new Optimizer long block for around $5500 but for that kind of money I would have gone to Peninsular, Schoolcraft, or Kennedy. Don't like the bait and switch game.
TurboDiverArt
05-25-2007, 15:26
Well that sort of takes them off the list of where to get a new engine if I ever need one!
Art.
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