short list on how to ds4-->db2 on 94??

[jbell]

My dad is considering a 1/2 ton (yes, half) 94 chev 6.5td. With all of the stories about the ds4, and it's issues, what is the cheapest / best way to make this truck run a long happy life?

Also, on half ton's, did they have 4l60 something or 4l80's like the 3/4 ton's. And if it is a 4l60, is it the all mechanical, or electric shift? I thought 93 was the last year for all mechanical 4l60.

I have a 6.2, so I've never had to worry about the ds4.

[BobND]

I bought my 1994 1/2 ton 6.5 quite a number of years ago with some 50,000 miles on it, and the pump itself has never been touched since I've had it, outside of replacing the FSD ONCE, and moving it to a heat sink, and it now has 180,000 miles on it. (The pump HAD been replaced at least once before I bought it.)

So, not ALL the DS-4 pumps have been continuously problematic.

I have, though, had a couple of problems with broken (from vibration) wires at the EGR and boost control solenoids.

Mine has the 4L80E, and I'm almost certain the only other slushbox option would have been the 4L60E, so either way, to go to a mech. IP, your're gonna need a stand-alone controller for the tranny, at a cost of $1000.00, or so, and for that amount you could keep the better-starting, better mileage electronic system, and replace the TP, if needed.

Other things to consider... glow plug control and probably speedometer operation are also through the PCM, so there's two more issues to be addressed if you decide to go to the mechanical IP, not to mention changing the accelerator pedal, and interferance problems between the water fitting and the throttle linkage.

While the mileage of my '94 is not OUTSTANDING, it's better than the 1984 SUB and 1989 6.2 pickup I have, so as far as I'm concerned, with mileage being important to me these days, I wouldn't give up the electronic powertrain management system an my 1994.

[Bobbie Martin]

If your goal is to switch to a DB2 (and what a worthy goal it would be :D ) stay away from a 4L60E equipped truck. I don't know much about converting them or the availability of 4L60E computers. The easiest trucks to convert are manual shift, followed by 2WD 4L80E. 4WD automatic 4L80E are the hardest, but are doable.

Stand alone 4L80E computers are much less than $1000. DB2 converted trucks start just as well and get equal mileage. Glow plugs, speedo, etc. are no problem, really there is nothing that is a real problem except the aforementioned 4X4s. Single thermostats have no clearance issues and twins are easy to fix. Having said that, there is a bit to it and there is a lot more than covered here - and you won't find it anywhere, as least not yet.

The DB2 conversion is the single best upgrade you can do, in my opinion. We have had a diesel Sub for 10 years now. Its had a DB2 for the last 30,000+ miles. I would never switch back for any reason. The DB2 is superior in every way and worth the trouble to swap it out.

[ 08-27-2005, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: Bobbie Martin ]

[BobND]

Bobbie,

Can you recommend a source for a stand-alone controller for a 4L60E, complete with throttle position sensor, and required harnesses at a total price of significantly less than $1000.00?

I have a project, 6.2 and 4L60E into a 1974 Ford F150, and I have looked for several years, and not stumbled on a really good deal on the controller and the needed harnesses.

I'm happy to hear you may know if a source!

[Bobbie Martin]

Originally posted by BobND:
Can you recommend a source for a stand-alone controller for a 4L60E, Sorry, as I said, I don't know of one for a 4L60E. I have read that you can use a 4L80E controller on one, but not sure if that's true. Standalone 4L80E controllers are not too hard to find.

[BobND]

Bobbie,

Actually, the same stand alone transmission controller will work with BOTH the 4L60E, and 4L80E tranmissions, as long as you have the correct harness (and probably software) for the appropriate transmission.

So, what source do you recommend for a reasonably priced controller?

[David Brady]

I have the half ton with no towing package and it's a 4L80E. I didn't think they put the 4L60e behind the diesel when they went to the DS4 and turbo.

[Bobbie Martin]

Originally posted by BobND:
So, what source do you recommend for a reasonably priced controller? You can find them at a salvage yard or occasionally on ebay for $100-200. Genuine GM, its the exact same one that Jet sells for $1000 or so.

[jbell]

If it's a 4l60, I'd just put in the diesel 7004r valvebody and gov, run +12 and be done with it.
My concern was the list of changes to make the engine and everything else happy.

[20050627|3|008327|000043|65.183.99.20]

Originally posted by JDave:
I have the half ton with no towing package and it's a 4L80E. I didn't think they put the 4L60e behind the diesel when they went to the DS4 and turbo. When I was looking for mine, I asked at the service dept of the local dealer and was told they never put the 4L60E behind a diesel. Only the 4L80E. Even in 1/2 tons.

[More Power]

www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com (http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com) has the TCM for any GM electronic automatic - from a 4L60-E, 4L80-E to the Allison. About $800 for an installation kit that includes the wiring harness(price does not include engine speed sensor or throttle position sensor). Reasonably priced sensors are available from The Diesel Depot (http://www.thedieselpage.com/vendors/avant.htm).

If you've got a selectable (pushbutton) shift transfer case 4WD, you'll have to convert it to use a manual shift lever (real easy to do).

Jim

[Bill Siver]

So, let's review. You need a pedal and cable assembly. You need to hook up a TPS switch for trans operation. My DB2 pump has that. What else for the trans.? Engine speed sensor? I haven't recieved my '94 yet, so I haven't taken a good look at what is all on top of that engine. All I know is that it ran EXTREEMLY rough and they assumed some kind of IP problem. I bought it cheap in hopes that I can fix it, or put my DB2 pump on it, or, if there is a TERRIBLE problem, find a good 6.2 block and start bolting parts on it.

What don't I know about the DS4 Pump electronics?

Bill

[Bill Siver]

Is there interaction between the DS4 and whatever controlls the turbo? If there is, can I simply put a standars wastegate on the turbo? Or is it more of a fueling thing?

Bill

[Bobbie Martin]

Originally posted by Bill Siver:
So, let's review. You need a pedal and cable assembly. You need to hook up a TPS switch for trans operation. Engine speed sensor? Bill You need a lot more than that. More than can be covered here. I'm working on a guide containing the info you want. It's currently over 17 pages give or take. Maybe one of these days.....

[Bill Siver]

Hmmm

I believe you simply because I have nothing to refute what you say. I thought I read an article about using the Chevy diesel stand alone controller to put a 4L80E in a hotrod. This is what led me to believe that a swap to a mechanical IP would not be that hard. I guess what I want is a bored out, turbocharged 6.2. Am I going to have to swap to a standard to achieve this?

Forgive my ignorance, I just don't know anything about the electronics, or much about Diesels in general. I have owned an '86 6.2 and an '88 6.2, but that is all. I rebuilt both, and they ran very well, but there isn't much to them.

Thanks,

Bill

[Bobbie Martin]

Originally posted by Bill Siver:
I thought I read an article about using the Chevy diesel stand alone controller to put a 4L80E in a hotrod. This is what led me to believe that a swap to a mechanical IP would not be that hard. I didn't say it was hard, just more to it than you have here. As they say "the devil is in the details". You have the basics which is you remove the DS4 stuff and put in the DB2 stuff. There really is more than I can cover here. I was going to write an article for the Diesel Page, but I couldn't get all the info in the space constraints Jim wanted so I'm going another way. Its just taken way longer than I ever thought. It's getting closer, but it's slow going. However, it will have ALL the info you need.

[Bill Siver]

Well, HURRY UP! I'll send off the money order when you give the thumbs up. ;)

Bill

[jbell]

I think I'd take the 'unfinished' 17page version at this point. I knew it was a big deal -- that's why I asked for the 'short list......'

[More Power]

Though hard to locate, a 4L80-E trans computer & harness used in the 1991-93 6.2/6.5 equipped vehicles can be made to work. Likewise, the 6.5 TCM used in the Postal vans that the Avants have gotten so many engines from can also work. They had some of these at one time (may still).... Likewise, a 4L80-E trans computer used in the military HMMVEE would work. In short, any computer will work that was used with a non-computer controlled engine (preferably 6.2/6.5).

I have a GM cruise control module that I removed from Lil Red that will work for an MFI conversion. I'll be showing how to do it before long. These modules are a dime a dozen at salvage centers, and can be wired into the 1994+ vehicle speed sensor and turn signal cruise control switches.

Jim

[Bill Siver]

Super, I'll be waiting eagerly. I have LOTS of work to do on the truck, so I'm not too worried. I just hope to have it ready and running either with the DS4 or the DB2 by late spring.

[Bobbie Martin]

I wouldn't use a pre 94 controller on a 94+ transmission, but YMMV. The later controllers are fairly easy to make work on a 2WD, not so easy on a 4X4. The GM cruise control box is the way to go - only a little fabrication & rewiring. They work great.