2008 3500HD Short Bed

[jasonv]

Does anyone know if we can expect a 2008 model 3500 in a short bed? I pull a large 5th wheel and my currnet 2500HD Duramax is bit light for the job. I need a new truck and I am reluctant to buy another 2500HD right now. The current GVRW of 9200lbs in the only short bed offered by GM is unacceptable. Why are they so far behind Ford in the pulling and GVRW category? They now have a new 3500 with HUGE GVRW but what about a short bed for city drivers? Any inside knowledge would be helpful prior to my next purchase. Thanks

[OC_DMAX]

I have asked the same questions myself several times!

I was also hoping like you that when GM came out with the GMT-900 platform that the HD derivatives would have a higher GVWR (their competitors certainly do). However, it looks as if most of of the weight rating specs were left "as is" from the previous GMT-800 design. I am not sure if GM even upgraded the suspension/frame in the new HD design or just carried over the old parts. It looks as if they spent most of their design $$$ on the interior and the sheet metal on the exterior.

Personally, I am not sure why they even carry a SRW 3500 variant. Why not just increase the 2500HD GVWR up to 9900 lbs and be done with it.

[More Power]

The GMT-900 diesel now has a 13,000-lb receiver hitch rating (and 2-1/2" receiver), and up to 24,400-lb gross combined weight rating. I'd say that's a step up from the 12K/22K GMT-800.... ;)

Jim

[OC_DMAX]

That is a good point.

However, for 5th Wheel application, the limiting factor still is the amount of weight that the pin transfers to the bed of the truck. I have a relatively small/mid size 5th Wheel (28.6 ft long with a GWR of around 11K pounds) and my current 2500HD is about 500 pounds over the GVWR of the truck.

The problem lies in the GVWR of the truck, not the pulling capability of the DMAX/Alli powertrain.


Later,
Alan

[DmaxMaverick]

Marketing hype and numbers. Brand F uses the numbers as a selling point. The weight numbers don't mean a thing if they can't be legally applied. The selling points of Ford aren't as clear as they would have you believe. If you want a higher actual cargo capacity than the "run of the mill" GM, you will have to order the SD with a 4.10 or 4.30 rear axle and auto tranny, regular cab shortbed. They kind of left that part out of the TV commercial. If you watch the TV commercial and read the mag. ads, you may not notice all the footnotes, exclusions and disclaimers. Ford's published trailering capacity is significantly lower than a like equipped GM. They have to offer 3 gear ratios to meet what GM does with one. That part is in the fine print, too. By my calculations, it is not possible to tow a GCWR trailer (legally, safely with correct tongue loading) with the ford. Actually, it falls short of previous year GMs.

Much of this means nothing most of the time. All 3 brands will tow/haul considerably more than the published #s rather handily. Many, if not most, RV'ers and hotshots I've seen regularly exceed the numbers. Many of my friends do. They will ignore the numbers and put the rig to the test. If it hauls and stops, they don't look back. I've done it, but only on rare ocasions.


Here's a couple pics of what not to do. The mobile home weighs over 35K, with a tongue weight over 4K. My truck handled it better than many trucks designed for it. The Airlift airbags helped tremendously. I didn't have to take it far, but it was necessary. Another GMC 2500HD D/A (03 or 04, I think) towed it to the destination about 15 miles away w/o issue. He didn't have airbags, but didn't have any broken terrain. I just got it to the road where he could get to it.

[Craig M]

A 35,000# mobile home? What was inside it, the local library?

[DmaxMaverick]

It's ~30 years old. Lots of extra weight.
Waterlogged (rain leaks and plumbing issues). Dust/dirt. Furniture. Layers of paint/paper. Dead skin cells. Parasites. Moss (on the N side). Etc.... It all adds up over time, and the previous occupants weren't particularly tidey. This one is a little heavier than most of the same size. Mobile homes aren't lightweights. I didn't see all the weight either, but I've talked with several MH movers who say the same.

[iljusin]

Yes my GM 2500 (short bed) has more payload capacity than Ford 2500, about 3200lb. But that is not enough for 5th wheel owners. My hitch is ~2400lb, gas ~600lb, hitch 180lb. Legally I can not have anybody in track (including my self). Next choice is Ford 3500 short bed (3.73 ratio only with diesel). Payload is 3800lb but even that is not good enough

[jasonv]

I think I understand the numbers. It is clear to me that Ford has a one ton short bed SRW with Gross Vehicle Rating of $11,200lbs. Take off the wieght of the truck, cargo etc and you are left with 3800lbs or so. Plenty for most loads. GM on the other hand at 9200lbs only leaves about 1700lbs for a hitch wieght. THIS is way too light. Why? THey have a huge pulling engine and tranny and then GM bottle necks the towing capacity with a rediculously low GVRW. I don't get it. When will we see a short bed GM with a an 11,000lbs + GVRW???? I hate Ford and will never drive one again. Been there done that. Get on with it GM!!!!

[OC_DMAX]

jasonv,

Be careful when reading the brochures about payload weights. If you read the fine print, this number is usually referenced to a "standard model" which normally does not include the diesel engine, heavier duty transmission or axles. (The payload may even be referenced to a "standard bed truck - ie. regular cab with 8 ft bed). The brochures are very misleading and are marketing gimmics only. Example, if you read the GM brochure, at first read you would be lead down the path of "its OK to pull a 15K lbs 5th wheel (assuming you have the DMAX). However, as you have noted, once fully loaded, there is not enough payload capacity left to handle that large of a trailer (and still meet the specs of the truck). The PAYLOAD capacity quoated in the brochures is not the payload capacity that the truck comes from the factory with.

I have weighed my truck, with 5th wheel hitch, full of fuel, loaded with my normal passenger load (wife & myself), plus tool box and a few other items in the bed. The measured weight was 7300 lbs. This left approximately 1900 lbs for the trailer pin weight transfered to the hitch. This is similar to what you post above. (A side note: the shipping paper work for my truck indicated that the "as delivered truck" when new from the factory with minimal fuel weighed 6430 lbs.) That would leave me with a payload capacity of 2770 lbs. from the factory.)

Once again, I do not understand why GM maintains a separate SRW 3500 variant. Just increase the GVWR of the 2500HD model line to 9900 and be done with it. It has to be a "marketing thing". Ford and Dodge have SRW 3500 equivalent models, so GM needs to have one also.

Having said all the above, I sure see a lot of people going down the road each weekend here in SoCal with large (36ft +) Weekend Warrior toy hauler trailers (16K lbs GWR) being pulled by 2500HD trucks. So the truck can "pull" the trailer, however, some of the safety margin designed into the GM product has to be compromised. To what degee is anyones guess.

[Mark Rinker]

My favorite caption for the pictures posted of the mobile home move...

"Maybe if I drive really slow she won't wake up."

[More Power]

OC_DMAX said: Once again, I do not understand why GM maintains a separate SRW 3500 variant.

GM does it for Canada. A "3500" gets a tax break in Canada of about $1500 IIRC, cuz I guess, it's a work truck.

Jim

[DmaxMaverick]

My favorite caption for the pictures posted of the mobile home move...

"Maybe if I drive really slow she won't wake up."

She (they) didn't. There's more than one way to effect an eviction process.....

[SoTxPollock]

Just the opposite in the USA, according to my son who works in the Insurance Industry. All Major Insurance companies are planning to up the premiums considerably for liability coverage on anything with a 10,000 lb. or greater rating. Seems they've determined the heaver stronger built vehicles are doing much more damage to the smaller cars and flemsly built SUV's the soccer mom's are flying around in these days.
So I wouldn't knock GM for not rating higher numbers. We all know a 2500 HD D/A will handle just about anything you can tie to it, and who needs higher insurance premiums? As one of our distinguished members has said "Don't worry about the mule, just load the wagon."

[iljusin]

I do care when I get with my fifth wheel to Colorado mountains. I like to be legal. And with GM it would be only with 3500 dually...

[Duramaster]

Here, check this out.


http://www.gmc.com/sierra900/1500/index.jsp

[jasonv]

I agree with OC DMAX. GM has to buck up and get the 2500Hd to 9900lbs.

[kburati]

jasonv,

Be careful when reading the brochures about payload weights. If you read the fine print, this number is usually referenced to a "standard model" which normally does not include the diesel engine, heavier duty transmission or axles...

Yes but to Ford's credit, and I don't drive nor like Ford trucks, their Payload pkg is variable depending on what engine/tranny you choose. For instance, the Diesel Ford gets a 11,500 GVWR for the F350 Single Rear wheel truck where the standard is much lower allowing all truck to have similar payload capacities instead of being penalized on payload for going with a Diesel engine.

Now I personally carry 4000 lbs in the bed of my 2500HD (with an additional spring pack and 3750# rated wheels and tires plus adjustable Rancho shocks). I do think I'll add a rear sway bar too though. The rear of these trucks is just as capable as the Ford but the F350 SRW and DRW trucks get a 6000# rating on the front axle which might be a little more difficult for GM since we don't have solid axles in our trucks up front.

[Dakster]

Now I personally carry 4000 lbs in the bed of my 2500HD (with an additional spring pack and 3750# rated wheels and tires plus adjustable Rancho shocks). I do think I'll add a rear sway bar too though. The rear of these trucks is just as capable as the Ford but the F350 SRW and DRW trucks get a 6000# rating on the front axle which might be a little more difficult for GM since we don't have solid axles in our trucks up front.

Apparently you are following the disclaimer of "properly equiped" since you added a spring pack and heavy load range tires. My question to the manufacturer is what is the weakest link that is preventing a higher GVWR/GCWR. For trailer weight I don't think it is brakes (since heavier trailers have to come with them to be legal anyways) and I doubt it is the diesel motor, tranny - could be, although the allison is pretty stout. The only things left are frame, suspension, axle, rims, tires...

Any engineers reading this care to chime in?

The only other issue is if you are involved in a serious accident and are "overloaded" according to the sticker on the truck you could be in trouble despite beefing up the weakest elements.

[jasonv]

Anyone heard any news on teh 2008's? Short bed 3500? Increased GVRW on the 2500HD???

[Ramster21]

:) I had no problem today.. Hauling wet pit run gravel/sand
Everytrip I was well over the GVW of 15,000lbs. Once hit 25,500 on the scales both truck and trailer. 6 Yard dump trailer meant for bigger trucks but couldn't pass on using it for free.
I had close to 7 yards in it.
The gravel pit guy were impressed. 8 trips today, not one complaint from the truck.
Another reason I finally bought my Duramax.

[throckmorton]

Anyone heard any news on the 2008's? Short bed 3500? Increased GVRW on the 2500HD???
As a salesman for a GMC dealer, we started placing 2008 orders this past week. In answer to your question, No there will not be a short bed 3500HD offered for 2008 and No the GVWR has not been increased on the 2500HD. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news and I agree with another post I read that a 3500HD single rear wheel does not make a lot of sense for a 700 pound GVWR increase.

Sincerely,
Arthur Throckmorton
Las Vegas, NV
1960 GMC 1000 Fenderside Long Bed 305A 3-Speed (http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow.jsp?mode=fromshare&Uc=5oqfg2z.a1lstijr&Uy=-iibk1g&Ux=0)
1965 Buick Special Wagon 455 / Turbo 400 (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2230238/1)
1968 Buick Skylark "GSX 455" Custom / Turbo 400 (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2230259/1)

[Dakster]

It seems like if you want a short bed you have to get a 2500 and if you want a long bed a 3500. I couldn't find a dealer with a long bed 2500, so I went with the 3500 SRW short bed. I don't haul a lot of weight so the dually is not something I wanted.

I can also tell you a 3500 is more expensive to insure than a 2500. Compared to the 2500 Suburban I had it is $20 more a month and about $10 more than a 2500 truck. Not much, but it is still another $240/yr going to the insurance company.

[jasonv]

Dakster Said :

"I couldn't find a dealer with a long bed 2500, so I went with the 3500 SRW short bed."

Did you really find a Short bed 3500 SRW? This is what I am trying to locate. Is this a typo? If not, is this a 2008?