oil cooler lines

[flintspear]

I have a 98 cc 4wd 6.5 td. Been a pretty good truck, but wanted to share an experience. Had leaking oil lines after cold trip to SLC, checked around and ordered a set of aftermarket lines - source will remain undisclosed. They were not armored, and not steel around exhaust manifold. I called the supplier, he said he used them w/ no problems and hadn't had any complaints. Against my better judgement I installed. Should have stayed factories. Under load at 2250 revs they melted down. Big cloud of black smoke, 3 horses and horse trailer stuck 150 miles from Denver. 600 dollar tow bill, and that was on the cheap. Do NOT use any oil lines that aren't metal around that manifold. JK suggested reworking factories. He was right. Biggest pain is the little brace in the middle. In spite of all bad words re 6.5, my engine has held up after that near meltdown. Other stuff has failed, including new harmonic balancer - how do you tell if it is bad - I didn't have any rough running? Hauled horse trailer to Montana - blew NV4500 tranny, but engine fine. Any body with experience hauling 9-10k load with this rig? I am upgrading my trailer and will be running a 4 horse 20 dog outfit. 5000 lb trailer and 5 k payload. I don't need a screamer - just get down the road. $40k for a D-max out of question for me. BTW have hauled 3 horses over Wolf Creek Pass - if there is a worse place in the 48 I don't want to be there. Maybe one of the GEP blocks built by Peninsular is the answer.

[markrinker]

Hi. Interesting story re the oil cooler lines. I dropped a '98 motor in my '94 K3500 last spring and was confronted with a mismatch between oil cooler line fittings and the old oil cooler. Sprung for new OEM peices and the lines leaked after only 30K miles. Replaced under warranty, we'll see how long they go this time.

Your truck is definately up to task pulling 10K loads here in the flatlands, mountains I can't speak to. I have 60K+ miles between my two 6.5s with those kind of loads - you need some help to keep EGTs in check, big exhaust, more boost and some more fuel helps get you over the bumps and* stay cooler at the same time.

JKs fan clutch is another good upgrade and worth every penny to keep heat in check. Intercooling seems to be the last upgrade, and probably the best to getting everything out of the 6.5, as you can then run higher boost levels without high IATs.

Lots of good experience and info here, happy hunting use the search feature alot its mostly been done.

[DA BIG ONE]

I had changed out to an aftermarket oil line/bypass setup and saw the problem early on.

Removed the x-over pipe coated it in high temp silicone, wrapped it as it exits drivers side exhaust manifold, out to about 10" w/3 layers of header wrap applying gobs of high temp silicone between each layer.

Next, I used AreoQuip High Temp Fire Sleeve on hoses (to cooler/bypass)to create more of a heat barrier, then used more firesleeve over outside of sleeve on hose attached by header wrap strap.

NOTE: Firesleeve must be sealed against the elements w/high temp silicone at each end. Water can get in between sleeve and hose degrading heat barrier and give hose steam bath, not good.

Hind sight being 20/20 I should have used right angle fittings to get around x-over pipe, bought them w/new hose just need to find time to do it.

[joed]

Hey neighbor, of sorts (CO).

We seem to have very similar trucks- mine is also a 98 5-speed. I use mine quite a bit to tow our fifth wheel and boat - together it's probably 9-10K. The truck does a good job over our CO mountain passes, especially since it's equipped with 3.73 gears.

As for mods., if you haven't already done it, a bigger more open exhaust will definitely help-I've got a 3-inch; if I were to do it now I'd go for a 3 and 1/2. The best mod. I've done so far though, is the intercooler. Now that I have it I don't think I'd be able to tow without it.

As for aftermarket oil lines - I also had a meltdown, probably with the same lines you used, I'm guessing. Thank god for that dash light that says "check gauges" - I noticed the 0 oil pressure and was able to shut it down before damage occured. Because of this experience, I'll never try anything but the stock lines, such as they are.

Also, you said you lost your 5-speed. What were the signs? Reason I ask is that mine is becoming harder to shift, especially when towing. Could be my clutch but with 133K, I'm wondering if the synchronizers are starting to go.

Joe.

[CareyWeber]

Originally posted by flintspear:
I have a 98 cc 4wd 6.5 td. Been a pretty good truck, but wanted to share an experience. Had leaking oil lines after cold trip to SLC, checked around and ordered a set of aftermarket lines - source will remain undisclosed. They were not armored, and not steel around exhaust manifold. I called the supplier, he said he used them w/ no problems and hadn't had any complaints. Against my better judgement I installed. Should have stayed factories. Under load at 2250 revs they melted down. Big cloud of black smoke, 3 horses and horse trailer stuck 150 miles from Denver. 600 dollar tow bill, and that was on the cheap. Do NOT use any oil lines that aren't metal around that manifold. JK suggested reworking factories. He was right. Biggest pain is the little brace in the middle. In spite of all bad words re 6.5, my engine has held up after that near meltdown. Other stuff has failed, including new harmonic balancer - how do you tell if it is bad - I didn't have any rough running? Hauled horse trailer to Montana - blew NV4500 tranny, but engine fine. Any body with experience hauling 9-10k load with this rig? I am upgrading my trailer and will be running a 4 horse 20 dog outfit. 5000 lb trailer and 5 k payload. I don't need a screamer - just get down the road. $40k for a D-max out of question for me. BTW have hauled 3 horses over Wolf Creek Pass - if there is a worse place in the 48 I don't want to be there. Maybe one of the GEP blocks built by Peninsular is the answer. How long since the lines were installed did the failure take place?

Carey

[RT]

Telling me you had a meltdown and then not telling me what aftermarket hoses you used is pretty much useless to me. I have aftermarket lines for 30K without any issues and I do check them to make sure they are okay. So do I pull them off and go back to stock just because you had a problem with brand X? Or do I take my chances? My hoses are routed carefully and I haven't seen any signs of problems. Gee thanks for another thing to worry about. RT

[CareyWeber]

Originally posted by RT:
Telling me you had a meltdown and then not telling me what aftermarket hoses you used is pretty much useless to me. I have aftermarket lines for 30K without any issues and I do check them to make sure they are okay. So do I pull them off and go back to stock just because you had a problem with brand X? Or do I take my chances? My hoses are routed carefully and I haven't seen any signs of problems. Gee thanks for another thing to worry about. RT I've had a set of the older lines that weren't shielded that I installed spring of 2004 and promptly drove my from South Carolina to Montana and back and they're still working fine. :D :cool: :D

I think the switch to the steel braided lines is a good one, but if you are careful when you install them they are fine. I think the people who have some one do it for them might be the ones having the issues good craftmanship is hard to find. :( I still might add some fire sleeve to add some protection.

Carey

[flintspear]

I guess it doesn't hurt to mention the lines I used now - Greg Lubrecht's. He has changed to an armor braid line. The armor braid lines will probably do better, ie DSG. I like the larger DSG oil cooler and may install that, particularly when I start pulling a heavier trailer. I ran the rubber lines (unarmored) from Greg for almost a year under light loads. They only failed when I put a 6kplus load behind the truck at speed - about 2250 revs and 65 mph on level ground. In retrospect I should have been a little more creative with fittings to create some air space. IF you are running GL's old lines and haven't done a mod for insulation, I believe you are asking for trouble if you ever tow much of a load. I would not use those lines again under any circumstances, load or not, without mods for manifold clearance or insulation. Not an encouraging sight seeing that cloud of oil smoke in the middle of nowhere. anybody install a secondary oil filter in a 4wd? Where did you mount the filter mounting block? If you put a intercooler up front, that doesn't leave much of a place for the bypass filter.

Truck didn't have any trouble with that load. Thanks for the suggestions re towing. I am going to JK exhaust, etc. at first opportunity, will eventually intercool this truck and may rebuild to 18:1 pistons etc with a GEP block. I feel better about hanging onto my truck. It may have to last me the rest of the way. The results of the power project were pretty interesting, esp the durability of that configuration - 160 k troubel free running is pretty good.

Re tranny failure - not much warning. I hauled up to Malta Montana with 2 horses, everything ok, but trx seemed to be running hot. Started to Helena from Malta on business, noticed a lot of gear noise. Checked oil level - all ok. Managed to limp to Helena in 4th gear, which is I guess the strongest gear in the NV4500. Pretty much catastrophic failure - only had 4th gear to run in - lots of snychro noise in 2, 3, and 5. No real warning. Had to put a rebuild in - could have gotten a new one for a little more out of Roberts Mt, but didn't check around enough. The rebuild is leaking. The rebuild shop recommended using Red Line MTL/MT90 gear lube, which I am using on fill ups. My understanding (from I don't recall where) is the NV4500 is rated up to about 19k load, vs the 5600 transx rating at 26k. I expect the drive train will take the load I expect, which is about 16 k total. If anybody needs a new NV4500, do a search for that trx on google, etc. The 4x4 shop in Roberts MT will come up eventually. They have some new NV4500s in stock (or did in May) and also have some mods to improve 5th gear reliability.

Good luck and thanks. Flint Spear.

[DA BIG ONE]

Originally posted by flintspear:
I guess it doesn't hurt to mention the lines I used now - Greg Lubrecht's. He has changed to an armor braid line. The armor braid lines will probably do better, ie DSG. I'm still using the suspect hose, or better
yet "commonly routed wrong hose" had them in for awhile now "no worries". Must ask yourself, how long can any hose last touching a hot exhaust manifold?

Being it was the first time I had attempted such an install (cooler lines/bypass system) I had some issues and Greg spent lots of time walking me through them.

After so many MAJOR screw ups by so called certified techs at various shops, I conclude I can do a much better job even with my limited knowledge and all the great help of this forum!

[CareyWeber]

Originally posted by flintspear:
I guess it doesn't hurt to mention the lines I used now - Greg Lubrecht's. He has changed to an armor braid line. The armor braid lines will probably do better, ie DSG. I like the larger DSG oil cooler and may install that, particularly when I start pulling a heavier trailer. I ran the rubber lines (unarmored) from Greg for almost a year under light loads. They only failed when I put a 6kplus load behind the truck at speed - about 2250 revs and 65 mph on level ground. In retrospect I should have been a little more creative with fittings to create some air space. IF you are running GL's old lines and haven't done a mod for insulation, I believe you are asking for trouble if you ever tow much of a load. I would not use those lines again under any circumstances, load or not, without mods for manifold clearance or insulation. Not an encouraging sight seeing that cloud of oil smoke in the middle of nowhere. anybody install a secondary oil filter in a 4wd? Where did you mount the filter mounting block? If you put a intercooler up front, that doesn't leave much of a place for the bypass filter.

Truck didn't have any trouble with that load. Thanks for the suggestions re towing. I am going to JK exhaust, etc. at first opportunity, will eventually intercool this truck and may rebuild to 18:1 pistons etc with a GEP block. I feel better about hanging onto my truck. It may have to last me the rest of the way. The results of the power project were pretty interesting, esp the durability of that configuration - 160 k troubel free running is pretty good.

Re tranny failure - not much warning. I hauled up to Malta Montana with 2 horses, everything ok, but trx seemed to be running hot. Started to Helena from Malta on business, noticed a lot of gear noise. Checked oil level - all ok. Managed to limp to Helena in 4th gear, which is I guess the strongest gear in the NV4500. Pretty much catastrophic failure - only had 4th gear to run in - lots of snychro noise in 2, 3, and 5. No real warning. Had to put a rebuild in - could have gotten a new one for a little more out of Roberts Mt, but didn't check around enough. The rebuild is leaking. The rebuild shop recommended using Red Line MTL/MT90 gear lube, which I am using on fill ups. My understanding (from I don't recall where) is the NV4500 is rated up to about 19k load, vs the 5600 transx rating at 26k. I expect the drive train will take the load I expect, which is about 16 k total. If anybody needs a new NV4500, do a search for that trx on google, etc. The 4x4 shop in Roberts MT will come up eventually. They have some new NV4500s in stock (or did in May) and also have some mods to improve 5th gear reliability.

Good luck and thanks. Flint Spear. ps My trip to Montana was hauling my Lance camper.

Routing of any hose is the key.

I've use the same type hose on my by-pass oil filter that I have had since the truck had about 50K miles (spring 2000) on it (the truck now has +196K miles). Three of those were trips either to or from Alaska and the last Alaska I pulled my Scout so I grossed 16,900lbs (per AK DOT). I finally replaced the hose for the bypass filter fall 2004 (Areoquip push-loc hose).

The by-pass filter gets its oil from a port just above the oil cooler lines, so it gets the same heat that the oil cooler lines get.

Carey

[Hansh]

I have a dual bypass mounted on the left inner fender, just ahead and below the master cylinder.

I have over 30k on hoses supplied with the AMSIOL dual filter system and have installed new high pressure hoses for the new cooler (when I installed my new engine) with 90 degree fittings in the block. There is a couple inches between the hoses and the exhaust manifold. I have towed several boats hunderds of miles and had no problems. I do have a plastic loom over the hoses and they have not even melted.

Since you got into the subject of transmissions - The FOLLOWING IS A REAL STORY about my transmission problems, the names have not been changed!

When my I bought my truck, (I think this was back in 2000) it needed a new transmission because it ground going into second gear (counting gears as L-1-2-3-OD) some of you may call it third. I knew when I bought it, it needed the work. So I called around to find out who could do it, an approximate price, and time. I removed it, took it to BADger transmission in Milwaukee (1 hour away). Got it back in the time stated, reinstalled, 2nd gear syncro worked great! but....now it ground going into OD. They agreed to redo it, even said they would remove it and replace it. Great! They also recommended a new clutch, okay no charge for labor, do it.

Got the truck back in a day or two. I noticed it seemed noisy. The rubber boot on the shifter was not screwed down, AND the rubber cushion under the boot was missing. The shop states the mechanic threw out the rubber piece so they would get me a new one, and install it. I told them to just get it and I would put it in.

I noticed that it would sound differant when I loaded it at a low speeds, hmmmm. Four months later the trans is leaking out the front. BADger transmission tells me it is out of warranty. Now I am mad, so I indicate to them that a seal should last longer than 3 or 4 months and that they should replace it in good faith, seeing all that happened before. They agree to cover it. They also agree to refill with the AMSOIL Sythethic I had in it. They call me and state they can find any AMSOIL gear lube locally. I did not have any on hand, so I told them to just refill with dino oil and I'll replace later. Okay, no leaks now in 80k.

......But it gets better.

About 2 1/2 years later the clutch gets hard and the trans is hard to shift. Tried the master, and slave, no luck. Talked to the dealer and they recommended changing the Ball Stud - excellent.

While I had it apart, I decided to inspect the clutch disk and see what kind of shape it was in, it looked 1/2 worn, as did the springs on the disk........... which were rubbing on the flywheel bolts - I guess that's where the new sound from two years ago was coming from. The dealer was the only place that had a disk and PP in stock so I went to them for the parts and brought the old ones along to compare. They had no idea what I had, the disk and PP were completely different, not even right for a dual mass flywheel (which I do not have). New ball stud, fork, clutch disk, and pressure plate, now it all works good and ....no funny noises. About 2 years on it.

Anyway the moral of story - if you want it done right - do it yourself! Of course I did not have the special tools for the transmission rebuild, so I was stuck. It was one of the few times I had to deal with a repair shop and it was a BAD experience.

Also, my second gear syncro appears to be acting up - I believe that is a weak link in this model transmission. Mine has about 80 k on the rebuild, that is if it was truely rebuilt. It may have been a swap. I do wonder now.

[ 08-26-2005, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: HH ]

[RT]

Spear,
Do you mean Greg Landyut instead of Lubrecht??? The Lubespecialist guy? I have those lines. No issue so far, got the plastic loom on mine and the plastic is fine, several inches between the manifold and hose at any point. Maybe I should give him a call and upgrade to braided? I have some heatsleave from Thermotech but I need to disconnect the lines and slide it on. I have been too lazy. Thanks, RT