View Full Version : Simon, any more info about "new" block?
DennisG01
04-02-2007, 06:12
Just wondering if you have verified that you were looking at the the new 6.5 block with the different alloy composition? I think it's molybdenum that's added to the metal?
Here is what I found out Today
the supplier claims the blocks are the latest genuine 6.5 AM general , and they have been selling them for 5 months now.
The heads are made in china,and are claimed to have the same metal composition as the aM general heads. They have been selling them sinds 2004. And they say they had no problems with them so far.
This outfit assemble these engines as well in shortblocks, longblocks and complete drop ins, Using original GM parts .
My local machine shop "where I have seen one of these blocks" did some investigation, and found out that the these Blocks are made in china as well.
Apperently under licence of AM General??? Mayby All of them are made by our yellow friends??
What I don't know is where this shop is getting these blocks from, they would not say. they want $ 2000.-for it
There is one other supplier I contacted, He sells only longblocks $ 6500.-CND and says they come from azia as well.
Starts a guy wondering as to what is what. Now I am more confused than ever.!!!!!!!??????
DmaxMaverick
04-02-2007, 12:11
Navistar has a foundry in China??? Interesting.
I'd be very suspicious of the claims made by that supplier. Not suprised, though. They may be of good quality, but not genuine AM General.
I would guess that china is just marketing them now just like the heads. I would skip them unless it's what AM General is doing and selling.
E Mail AM and see what they say
More Power
04-02-2007, 12:26
International Casting Corp in Indiana is producing the cylinder blocks and cylinder heads for AM General. International is the foundry that produces the castings used in the Navistar/Ford diesel engines.
The Chinese castings are knock-offs, with an unknown alloy, design and quality control. Personally, I wouldn't touch them... :mad:
I fear that in the coming years, we'll be inundated with more horror stories that compound the cracking/durability problems we 6.5 owners have had to deal with, concerning the 90's GM castings. The International castings are the way to go. I've talked at length with the guys at GEP (AMG's engine plant in Ohio) about cracking, and they assured me the cracking problem seen in the GM castings is behind us (at least when using the International castings with the new alloy and design).
Jim
Somethings rotten in Denmark...
Denmark is in China, now?
john8662
04-02-2007, 15:35
I got wind of the Chinese casted blocks as well.
I agree with what's already said, they're knock-off and are NOT the same quality as the AM General block.
I'm still shocked that companies can cast blocks and heads and other componets and sell them in the States without proper licensing and there are NO reprocussions.
Seriously, would AM General actually grant rights for a Chinese Foundary to cast blocks? I seriously doubt it...
Crack a Chinese head (cylinder head, haha) or crack a knock-off block and see who stands by the product. None will!
Where does this B.S. Stop?
I'd like to see one of the knock-off blocks in person compared to an AM General block to compare them, so that the information will be out there to share with how to identify one of them (to steer clear).
Heads included...
J
Weighing them would give a clue maybe.
I am aware of what it takes to get castings from China, and have worked with people whose jobs are to ensure casting quality that have went there to source castings from them (part of doing business there means some content had to come from there).
The jist of the story is it takes a significant money and time investment to get quality castings from there, not something that happens very quick, so beware.
thanks for the input about this block issue.
I will be going to that machine shop and see of i can get some close visuals of that chinese block "measurements and such" this week.
This block did not come from the outfit posted below, but can be fake as well.
The outfit that sells these so called Genuine AM General blocks is
www.rj.performance.com in Calgary AB.
So check it out for yourself
But how can I tell the diff between the real and the fake as I have not seen a real AM block yet.
i'll post again
TurboDiverArt
04-04-2007, 07:27
thanks for the input about this block issue.
I will be going to that machine shop and see of i can get some close visuals of that chinese block "measurements and such" this week.
This block did not come from the outfit posted below, but can be fake as well.
The outfit that sells these so called Genuine AM General blocks is
www.rj.performance.com in Calgary AB.
So check it out for yourself
But how can I tell the diff between the real and the fake as I have not seen a real AM block yet.
i'll post again
Are they marketing them as genuine AM General blocks? If so just ask AM General if they are a reseller. If not I'm sure AM General will take it from there. I suspect AM General did a lot to overcome the bad reputation of the GM block and would not be too happy about a knock-off block selling itself as genuine or cracking down the road and tarnishing what good reputation AM General has worked so hard to get. I've emailed AM General a few times. They are nice people and will return your email or phone call.
Art.
Yukon6.2
04-04-2007, 09:11
Hi
Just wanted to let you know about a outfit i delt with in Calgary that called themselfs R J Brake and Diesel on ebay.
I bought what they advertised as NEW OEM 6.5 injector's.
They came in cheep cardboard box's,just like all the one's you see laying in Walmart with Made in China all over them,nothing like Delphi,GM or Bosch on them.
The injectors would not fit in one head.
They were very rude about a refund and untill i threatened getting Ebay involved,then they sent part of my money back,but saved some for themselves.
I did write a post at the time with all the details if you want more.
At the time the BBB in Calgary had more compailnts about them.
Be Very Carefull if they are the same company,i wouldn't buy anything off them,wouldn't matter what it was,or if i seen it in person,once they have your money that's where their interest in you as a customer end's
Good Luck
Thomas
Yukon6.2
04-04-2007, 09:38
Hi
I just looked into my records and want to add..
Ebay Name was R J Diesel and Brake
Business Name is R J Performance
In this case Buyer be Very Aware
I belive you can read a few posts on here about them,Kennedy and a few others have delt with them,once only i belive.
Phone # for BBB in Calgary is 403 517 4222
Once again GOOD LUCK
Thomas
Hi
Just wanted to let you know about a outfit i delt with in Calgary that called themselfs R J Brake and Diesel on ebay.
I bought what they advertised as NEW OEM 6.5 injector's.
They came in cheep cardboard box's,just like all the one's you see laying in Walmart with Made in China all over them,nothing like Delphi,GM or Bosch on them.
The injectors would not fit in one head.
They were very rude about a refund and untill i threatened getting Ebay involved,then they sent part of my money back,but saved some for themselves.
I did write a post at the time with all the details if you want more.
At the time the BBB in Calgary had more compailnts about them.
Be Very Carefull if they are the same company,i wouldn't buy anything off them,wouldn't matter what it was,or if i seen it in person,once they have your money that's where their interest in you as a customer end's
Good Luck
Thomas
How long ago was this? I had some of the same injectors from them with the same issues. They said send them back. We sent them and they were refused. They ignored my requests for refund. They made subsequent sales calls to me trying to peddle these things and I mentioned this BS several times before they finally agreed to send replacements. The old and new ones are still here to the best of my knowledge...
Yukon6.2
04-04-2007, 09:47
Hi Kennedy
bought them July 05, returned them Oct 05,they were in thier hands for 2 weeks when i started getting on thier case about a refund,they refused to admit they had them.Had to get all the tracking info from Canada Post,and threaten getting ebay involved befor i got any money returned,still ended up about $45.00 out of pocket.Mabey this a Canadian version of Steak Sauce?
Thomas
cdndiesel
04-06-2007, 16:00
Hello all, I am a new member here but have owned GM diesels since 86. I just have to speak up in regards to this company RJ Performance. Stay away!!! They are arrogant buggers that overcharge for inferior products. I went into their office one day just poking around asking questions and they gave nothing but attitude, when I asked some directed questions about blocks and heads they blew me off and basically said get out. I urge everyone to steer clear of this company. diesel products are expensive enough here in Canada but to be screwed by cheaply made products and not have the vendor back them exaggerates the problem. So in summary STAY AWAY FROM RJ PERFORMANCE!!!
Latest info regarding AM General bare blocks.
I just got an email from AM General sales department today.
They said that there are no bare blocks or other component available to the civilian public or anyone else at this time. No reason given. WY NOT??????
Only complete longblocks are made available to GM dealers and a few others.
They said
Any bare block offered on the marked today are used blocks or imperfect blocks intended for the scrapheap, that somehow evaded their destiny, or the blocks from chinese origin.[ they are well aware of that]
AM General claim they have not autorized anybody to produce these engines under licence either.
So there you have it.
ronniejoe
04-11-2007, 14:59
Simon,
Good investigative work, but this has been known and has been posted here before. The reason there are none is because they have an exclusive agreement with Franklin Power Products as a distributor. Franklin is in the engine remanufacturing business. In speaking with both AM General and Franklin in 2005, I was told point blank that making these blocks available to the public would undercut their remanufacturing business.
It comes down to money...
DmaxMaverick
04-11-2007, 16:29
A few custom distributors have these blocks. I know of none supplying anything short of a long block.
www.peninsulardiesel.com (TDP advertiser) has them. Still, only long blocks and custom builds. Careful, though....They're proud of 'em.
Simon,
Good investigative work, but this has been known and has been posted here before. The reason there are none is because they have an exclusive agreement with Franklin Power Products as a distributor. Franklin is in the engine remanufacturing business. In speaking with both AM General and Franklin in 2005, I was told point blank that making these blocks available to the public would undercut their remanufacturing business.
It comes down to money...
Well I guess I am catching on a bit late if this subject has been covered before. I did not know that. But change is the only thing that is constant in the world, but i won't be holding my breath on this one now.
Funny thinking on the part of those people. I would say the more you sell the more money one makes. With so many vehicles powered with 6.5's getting older now , not to many people will be willing to spend 7 to 8000.- on 1/2 a engine ,I aint. they be buying a new vehicle.I ain't doing that either. Lots of opportunity lost I say.
But that's my opinion. different folkes, differend strokes.
darkroad
04-14-2007, 11:34
I have found out that a lot of countries ( especially Asian area and India too ) do not recognise US Patents and reverse engineer everything from tools, engine parts to drugs and sell them in the US. What I can't figure out is how come the government or customs does't step in and enforce the Patent rights. Maybe the patent owner has to start the process. Or maybe somebody's hands are getting greased to overlook this. I too am cash strapped when it comes to fixing stuff but admit that I do buy some of these items to stretch the dollar but would figure out another way to do it if these were not so readly available. Who wants to go into a dark alley and buy from out of the back of a car. Until they stop this patent infrigment and add tariffs to equalize prices we will see more and more jobs and plants leaving the US and moving to other countries. They have no choice if they want to stay in business. Plus now it seems that all they care about is how much profit thay can make and nothing else. Maybe they will finally realize that when we are all not working and have no money to buy their products
they won't be around either
I can still remember when Walmart use to have banners saying something like proud to be american made. Now most of what they carry is made overseas.
Its a shame that we can't elect politicans that would keep their word to the public as to how they vote on things. The majority don't. Always thought it was funny that they would spend millions of dollars to get elected to a job that may pay a couple of hundred thousand dollars or less.
Sorry to seem that I am ranting on but this is exactly the reason we are talking about the quality of heads, blocks and cranks available to keep our trucks going.
Darkroad
a5150nut
04-14-2007, 13:45
I can still remember when Walmart use to have banners saying something like proud to be american made. Now most of what they carry is made overseas.
Won't use union contractors.
Take out life insurance pollicies on their employees that pays Wallymart.
Closed a store in Canada because the employees voted to go Union.
Its a shame that we can't elect politicans that would keep their word to the public as to how they vote on things. The majority don't. Always thought it was funny that they would spend millions of dollars to get elected to a job that may pay a couple of hundred thousand dollars or less.Darkroad
Pention = sallary for rest of thier life.
Not on Social Security program (or they WOULD fix it)
Consulting fees, Privade sector jobs after their term in office, speeking fees.............
Just wondering if you have verified that you were looking at the the new 6.5 block with the different alloy composition? I think it's molybdenum that's added to the metal?
I finally went to check out this china block at my local machineshop today.
This block [looks] correct in every way, machining is nice and smooth all over.
there is more meat in the main web area towards the pistons, the main caps are identical in measurement as the pre 2000 caps with the same 10mm outer bolts . The oilspray hole bores are smaller then stock. And on the sales slip it says that the cylinderwalls are thicker than OEM, it also states that the block is a high molybdenium alloy. It carries a year warranty.
And I got the owner to admit that he bought it from RJ Performance in Calgary.
I also found a Fellow in Edmonton who sells the same blocks for 1200 cdn.
He also claims to have used AMG hummer blocks , taken out of militairy humvee's that he gets from the states.$ 800. cdn
I have to go and check that out.
Mayby an other wild goose chase?
deiseltranstech
05-06-2007, 10:54
Hey Simon, curious to see if you checked out this guy in Edmonton yet? I phoned rj-perf in calgary yesterday and they want $1650 for this "AMG" block so 1200 seems like a deal. Reason I ask is I am in need of a new block and so either 800 or 1200 is cheaper than 8000 for a new one from the dealer, and I live in Edmonton so i could check out the "used ones".
Chicago TDP
05-06-2007, 14:19
I have a 2005 AMG engine from Peninsular and I can say that the block is far better then the older blocks. The outer cylinder walls pertrude into the lifter valley and the main caps are .200" thicker.
I have a 2005 AMG engine from Peninsular and I can say that the block is far better then the older blocks. The outer cylinder walls pertrude into the lifter valley and the main caps are .200" thicker.
I believe those amg blocks are better, but thickening the maincaps does nothing for blockstrengt
Hey Simon, curious to see if you checked out this guy in Edmonton yet? I phoned rj-perf in calgary yesterday and they want $1650 for this "AMG" block so 1200 seems like a deal. Reason I ask is I am in need of a new block and so either 800 or 1200 is cheaper than 8000 for a new one from the dealer, and I live in Edmonton so i could check out the "used ones".
NO i did not have the time yet.
Here is the name and ph # Oncore automotive, 433-9217 Edmonton Give me some feedback please.
Good luck Simon
deiseltranstech
05-06-2007, 21:26
Sounds good Simon, thanks for the phone# hopefully I can get to them in the first part of the week, I will take the digital camera and post pics when I get a look at these blocks, sounds like your from around Edmonton-area ? I live on the south side and work in nisku/leduc at Romaniuk Chev, seems to be a number of Edmontonians/Albertans here, we should have a "get together" sometime this summer.
Chicago TDP
05-06-2007, 22:05
I believe those amg blocks are better, but thickening the maincaps does nothing for blockstrengt
Not just the main caps though, the webbing is also thicker to match the main caps.
Do you have a measurement of the total thickness of the main webs?
Sounds good Simon, thanks for the phone# hopefully I can get to them in the first part of the week, I will take the digital camera and post pics when I get a look at these blocks, sounds like your from around Edmonton-area ? I live on the south side and work in nisku/leduc at Romaniuk Chev, seems to be a number of Edmontonians/Albertans here, we should have a "get together" sometime this summer.
Peace river is just a wee little bit north .
deiseltranstech
05-07-2007, 20:33
Ah- I see.... hense the reason you haven't checked this place out yet.
Well I phoned there today and talked to Gary, going tommorow to check it out, says he has a "hummer" block that needs a line bore for $800.00. so I guess we will see tomorrow.
I should be seeing one of the blocks from Diesel direct soon.
Tbey gaurantee the block for 1 year unlimited mileage.
Thier heads are two years unlimited mileage
The forged cranks are 1 year unlimited mileage.
Supposed to be US made and machined here too.
As soon as I get to see one we will get the casting numbers and markings and sort out where it came from if we can.
I think that all the suppositions need to cool a little until we get to cast the evil eye one one of these little creatures and then we can pick it to pieces.
Far too much speculation without verification to be reasonable.
We shall see.
I can say this that the set of heads that I got from Clearwater are working fine. They have almost a year on them now and no issues yet.
I will be very honest, they have not been subjected to any HARD usage.
Robyn
I should be seeing one of the blocks from Diesel direct soon.
Tbey gaurantee the block for 1 year unlimited mileage.
Thier heads are two years unlimited mileage
The forged cranks are 1 year unlimited mileage.
Supposed to be US made and machined here too.
As soon as I get to see one we will get the casting numbers and markings and sort out where it came from if we can.
I think that all the suppositions need to cool a little until we get to cast the evil eye one one of these little creatures and then we can pick it to pieces.
Far too much speculation without verification to be reasonable.
We shall see.
I can say this that the set of heads that I got from Clearwater are working fine. They have almost a year on them now and no issues yet.
I will be very honest, they have not been subjected to any HARD usage.
Robyn
I ain't in a hurry yet, i will wait and see what you think of it altough i have seen one already and it looks good, the only thing i don't like is that the maincaps and bolts are the same size and locations as the stock blocks.
I am working on a cast girdle, see my tread on that one.
I got 2 heads out of a 99 for free, no cracks, will they fit the new blocks or a 98 for that matter??
Simon
All the parts will swap across the line, even the 6.2 stuff will fit with the exception of the very early heads I think.
seems to me that the real early 6.2 heads had an extra water passage, not absolutely sure though.
All the late stuff will be fine.
Wev are supposed to be seeing that block soon. :D
Just as soon as we get to poke it around we will get the info up here for all to see.
Robyn
arveetek
05-08-2007, 14:23
All the parts will swap across the line, even the 6.2 stuff will fit with the exception of the very early heads I think.
seems to me that the real early 6.2 heads had an extra water passage, not absolutely sure though.
Robyn
All 6.2L/6.5L heads will swap and bolt on to any 6.2L/6.5L block. The early heads did have an extra water passage, but it won't prevent using them on a later block...they serve no purpose except to leak sometimes when used with 6.5L gaskets. The very first heads, '82 models, have coarse-thread injectors, so I would stay away from those, however. Injectors will interchange on '83 and up heads.
Casey
robscarab
05-08-2007, 17:08
Newb here, Also from Edmonton...
I was within an hour of sending my Visa # to the Calgary Guys selling the " Genuine AMG longblock" ! I decided to buy a membership here and sign on with hopes of discovering the source of these blocks. Thanks to the members here I apparantly have dodged a bullet! I was told by the guy at _ performance that these were genuine AM General blocks. I made the point clear that I am a single Dad whom will be travelling with my 3 young sons this summer and could not afford risking a breakdown on a lonely stretch of highway with my 5th wheel in tow. He proceeded to tell me all about the difference between his Hummer blocks and my inferior 93 599 block. I don't know how some people go through life lying and cheating, even if their not smart enough to run an honest business...
I had a 97 TD 3/4 ton 4x4 in 97 and went through 3 ip's and broke the crank at 85,000 kms. GM blamed the fuel pump problems on bad fuel from Northern Alberta and the crank problem was from towing too much? Anyway I went to a CTD Dodge after that with good results. Recently I decided to buy a 1 ton dually to be used for towing only and found a beautiful 93...with a blown crank. I am currently scanning this very informative website to familiarize myself with the lastest info on the 6.5TD and ways to make it last this time !
My membership has likely paid for itself many times over now that I have been warned about another opportunist lying about the source of his products!
My family and I Thank You all !!
Rob Staples
I certainly dont blame you at all..
I look at it this way, if your gonna sell stuff at least be honest about what it is you are selling.
The old 599 blocks were not all that bad. Some did break and some lost cranks.
Gm like all big manufactures had a 5 gallon pail of excuses as to why everything that goes wrong is somehow the customers fault. :rolleyes:
yeah right you towed too much :eek:
How can you tow too much :confused:
They had issues.
I have a friend that has a 96 GMC 3/4 ton and tows a 32 ft 5th wheel. He and his wife live full time in their 5th wheel and travel all over.
That truck has 340K on it as of last week when I saw him.
All he has ever done to it is do regular service (oil, filters ect)
The truck still has the original IP and PMD (still on the pump too)
Go figure.
He tells me that on a hot day and working the sucker hard coming over the Grape Vine on I 5 out of LA the temp gauge sits right on the 250 mark. :eek:
You could not get him to say one bad word about a 6.5.
He has had a really good one for sure.
Must have been a Thursday truck. :D
Robyn
I have a set of those coarse thread injectors in the closet somewhere.
robscarab
05-08-2007, 23:01
Yeah, I think during those early electronic ip years the service managers were lost for words (and excuses) while their lots were full of 6.5's waiting for Stanadyne to catch up. The towing thing was nonsense but the fuel I was getting was substandard. (supplied by my oil company client). I am an optimist and a GM lover so Im looking forward to driving my new crew cab dually and shooting for 20mpg. Total investment= less than 10,000 !!
The story you mention about the high mileage 6.5 is not unique. I have heard about just as many good experiences as bad. I wonder out loud if some cranks have a better balance from the factory and others pass through a funky harmonic at certain rpm? The rebuilt engine I am considering right now has a main stud girdle and mahle pistons. Crank is 0/0 with just a polish. It is not a balanced assembly. Is balancing important for these low rpm engines? Perhaps someone here can guide me to a Thread(s) that describe the best practices to rebuild a 6.5? I have seen a number of posts recommending the stud girdle and 18:1 Mahle pistons but would appreciate some links to machining oriented threads.
Having a resource like this forum sure adds a new and interesting dimension to building a tow vehicle..great stuff !
Rob
BINGO
You very well may be right about certain cranks passing through a harmonic. (critical speed)
Cast units are not all the same from one to another.
Ballancing the assembly is a very good way to spend $200 and can improve things a bunch.
I am not at all sure what the factory ballance is but as far as Im concerned the readings even for these slower engines should be
no more than .2 mils or less if possible
Maybe RJ will pop in here and give us his opinion. He does ballancing and should be able to give some meaningful input.
sidehackbob
05-09-2007, 20:21
While an engine may run at a funny harmonic, the the "worst" harmonic is a first order natural frequency. Engines go through these usually below an rpm that the engine will even run. the second order is capable of about half the displacement of the first. The third order is about half the second and so on. The natural frequency that would occur near 1800 would most likely be of an order so high that the displacement from the harmonic would be insignificant compared to the loading seen from the combustion.
I would be more interested in the effects of firing order setting up pulses through the crank than chasing the harmonics.
A properly balanced diesel engine will blow your mind. Its like going from a vw bug to an Eldorado.
The firing order on the 6.5 is totally different than a gasser big block for sure
It seems to me that it was done to keep a more controlable rate of flex on the cranks due to the power pulses
They go front to back side to side
1 8 7 2 6 5 4 3
LF, RR, LR, RF, RC, LC, RC, LC This is for the 6.2/6.5
A 454 is as follows
1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2
LF RR RC LC RC LC LR RF
There are some mysterious harmonics that set up in these things.
Remember the old 6.2's how the long belts would vibrate and flop all over at about 1200-1400 RPM
They even had a stainless belt shoe (guard) on the top radiator hose to keep the belt from sawing a groove in it.
The dampened pulleys stopped the belts from vibrating but the harmonic is still in the engine its just not presenting so much at the belts.
The old Olds 350 Diesels were especially bad about the belt thing.
With the advent of the dampened drive pulley and the serp drive the noise a vibration levels went way down.
I think some of it is due to the sharp nature of the power pulses at certain rpms.
The power pulse is fast and harsh as compared to a gasser..
I would think that the new pilot injection scheme they have on the DMAX and later Strokes helps this stuff too.
It would be interesting to know what the shock loading on the 6.5 cranks is as compared to a big block
deiseltranstech
05-10-2007, 18:00
Well Simon I finally got to this place today, He has no "new" blocks there. He only has used newer style blocks the and older ones too. He has 599/141/506 castings there. He ever had a "diamond " block there but it had spun the mains badly. The one 506 block had a small crack starting up #8 and the one 599 I seen had a couple small cracks too. He did however have a comlete longblock the looked to have been rebuilt very recently that had spun a #3 rod bearing. it was a 506 casting with no cracks, but no diamond. It did have the 4 bolt bosses for the motor mounts though so it was probably a 2000-ish casting. He was very open with me right from the start so I wouldn't be scared to buy fron him but I would go there and pick your block out yourself so you can see what your getting. He also has lots of good used heads/cranks ect... and If anyone is interested in conversion engines he has lots of duramax/powerstroke/cummins take outs there with harnesses.
I myself called my builder(pacific reman)-(In B.C) today becuase I was interested in the 506 diamond block with the mains issuse but he said stay away couldn't fix, but he just got some good used blocks in and sold me one for $600.00(506 hummer style) so I couldn't say no. They are building my 18:1 shortblock and balancing bottom end for a very reasonable price and I have used 3 of there 6.5 rebuilts before with not one issue yet todate.
I would refer them to anyone, very good workmanship.
So I did not get to see this aftermarket block yet but I guess I don't need to anymore hopefully.
thanks for the feedback.
Well I guess that is an other dead end, if he only has scrap.
He told me he had them new chinese blocks .you go figger.
RJ Performance
06-20-2007, 16:38
I wasn't sure if I should post a response or not, but after a good conversation with Simon. I think that it is best I post something.
First, Kennedy Diesel purchased injectors from RJ Performance for a few years and while the quantities weren't huge we did sell them 186 units over that time. When we were given a price increase from Delphi and switched to a surplus deal that we were told were manufactured by bosch we did have around a 10% warranty rate that we didn't have before.
Though we admittedly didn't react quick enough to the few customers that had problems we did take care of them, for the returns we didn't refund the out going freight. Which in hind sight was a poor decision.
I would very much like to diclose where we are purchasing the raw materials for our Xceptional 6500 engines, which is what we advertise and sell. What I can tell you is that all our orders are piggy backed from larger contract builders for AM General. At no time have we indicated to sell or market Optimax or Optimizer 6500 as that would be trade mark infringement.
I have an open door policy and any one is welcome anytime to come through our facility and take a look at the assembly process in at a neigbouring ISO certified company. Though sometimes I can't answer everyones questions because some of the information I am by contract unable to discuss. And it is difficult to operate in such a highly competitive market where their is so much mis information, and keep vendors and sources confidential. I guess at times reactions here to certian questions could come off as ignorant, which isn't our intent.
Some indicated that I overcharge, I dissagree, I think you will find our pricing extremely competitive and warranty coverage to match.
I have a lot of respect for Kennedy Diesel and other like him, and it is our goal to help RJ Performance get to that level of customer service and knowledge. I would like to apologize to those that feel they weren't treated well, and I would like the opportunity to make that right.
I have offered Simon an opportunity to get a block from us at a discounted price to build an engine from it and provide honest feedback about it. It's the only way I see these rumors ending. I have two blocks available for this purpose and would extend the offer to anyone that is genuine and interested.
Finally I would like to address the Better Business Beareau issues. In 36 months we have had three complaints, one has been addressed and resolved but two remain outstanding from the same complaintant. A ford engine was delivered to a customer that signed for the product. After removing the packaging damages were noted, but the freight company delcined the claim because the damages were not noted on the bill of lading when it was signed for. When we ship product it is in as promised condition, and we couldn't come to an agreement with this customer as we could not accept liability for freight damages. In the last 28 months we have had no complaints issued against us.
I hope that puts some of these issues to bed and we hope that we will have the opportunity to build our reputation in a positive way.
Regards,
Jonathon Campbell
General Manager
RJ Performance
I wasn't sure if I should post a response or not, but after a good conversation with Simon. I think that it is best I post something.
First, Kennedy Diesel purchased injectors from RJ Performance for a few years and while the quantities weren't huge we did sell them 186 units over that time. When we were given a price increase from Delphi and switched to a surplus deal that we were told were manufactured by bosch we did have around a 10% warranty rate that we didn't have before.
Though we admittedly didn't react quick enough to the few customers that had problems we did take care of them, for the returns we didn't refund the out going freight. Which in hind sight was a poor decision.
I would very much like to diclose where we are purchasing the raw materials for our Xceptional 6500 engines, which is what we advertise and sell. What I can tell you is that all our orders are piggy backed from larger contract builders for AM General. At no time have we indicated to sell or market Optimax or Optimizer 6500 as that would be trade mark infringement.
I have an open door policy and any one is welcome anytime to come through our facility and take a look at the assembly process in at a neigbouring ISO certified company. Though sometimes I can't answer everyones questions because some of the information I am by contract unable to discuss. And it is difficult to operate in such a highly competitive market where their is so much mis information, and keep vendors and sources confidential. I guess at times reactions here to certian questions could come off as ignorant, which isn't our intent.
Some indicated that I overcharge, I dissagree, I think you will find our pricing extremely competitive and warranty coverage to match.
I have a lot of respect for Kennedy Diesel and other like him, and it is our goal to help RJ Performance get to that level of customer service and knowledge. I would like to apologize to those that feel they weren't treated well, and I would like the opportunity to make that right.
I have offered Simon an opportunity to get a block from us at a discounted price to build an engine from it and provide honest feedback about it. It's the only way I see these rumors ending. I have two blocks available for this purpose and would extend the offer to anyone that is genuine and interested.
Finally I would like to address the Better Business Beareau issues. In 36 months we have had three complaints, one has been addressed and resolved but two remain outstanding from the same complaintant. A ford engine was delivered to a customer that signed for the product. After removing the packaging damages were noted, but the freight company delcined the claim because the damages were not noted on the bill of lading when it was signed for. When we ship product it is in as promised condition, and we couldn't come to an agreement with this customer as we could not accept liability for freight damages. In the last 28 months we have had no complaints issued against us.
I hope that puts some of these issues to bed and we hope that we will have the opportunity to build our reputation in a positive way.
Regards,
Jonathon Campbell
General Manager
RJ Performance
A customer's purchase history is not a figure that I'd ever disclose publicly...
P.S. Not sure who does your accounting, but 186 does not divide by eight and we ALWAYS buy and sell in sets.
Newb here, Also from Edmonton...
I was within an hour of sending my Visa # to the Calgary Guys selling the " Genuine AMG longblock" ! I decided to buy a membership here and sign on with hopes of discovering the source of these blocks. Thanks to the members here I apparantly have dodged a bullet! I was told by the guy at _ performance that these were genuine AM General blocks. I made the point clear that I am a single Dad whom will be travelling with my 3 young sons this summer and could not afford risking a breakdown on a lonely stretch of highway with my 5th wheel in tow. He proceeded to tell me all about the difference between his Hummer blocks and my inferior 93 599 block. I don't know how some people go through life lying and cheating, even if their not smart enough to run an honest business...
I had a 97 TD 3/4 ton 4x4 in 97 and went through 3 ip's and broke the crank at 85,000 kms. GM blamed the fuel pump problems on bad fuel from Northern Alberta and the crank problem was from towing too much? Anyway I went to a CTD Dodge after that with good results. Recently I decided to buy a 1 ton dually to be used for towing only and found a beautiful 93...with a blown crank. I am currently scanning this very informative website to familiarize myself with the lastest info on the 6.5TD and ways to make it last this time !
My membership has likely paid for itself many times over now that I have been warned about another opportunist lying about the source of his products!
My family and I Thank You all !!
Rob Staples
So my question for Jonathon Campbell is this:
Can you honestly say that the engines that you have use new OE blocks with the Navistar logo and cast in USA?
????????????? me too!
this is too good not to have a response! ;)
sidehackbob
06-26-2007, 18:30
"At no time have we indicated to sell or market Optimax or Optimizer 6500 as that would be trade mark infringement."
The true facts are not trademark infingement unless they are getting real blocks "slipped" out a side door somewhere and dont want to lose thier source.
Yukon6.2
07-02-2007, 08:49
This thread was getting buried.On the second page and from last month.
So curious minds still would like to hear a reply???:rolleyes:
this thing won,t rest till its over. There is more to come soon
It took a while, but I tracked down this fellows supplier.
Straight from China,as i suspected,via the US in to Canada
This factory is selling thousands of 6.2 and 6.5 506 blocks,heads and cranks in the US.
Aparently a lot of rebuilders offering new engines are using them.
Here is one other thing that raises questions, there is at least one other factory in china casting these blocks, after asking them for a company in the US to buy a block from, their answer was! As much as we would like to but we can't do that. Sorry, but That is a business secret, disclosing that information would jeopardize our business contract.
Their blocks have the diamond logo and 506 casted in the valley.
Who are they in business with???
As far as JR performance goes, I will not deal with him again ever.
His US counterpart is 65dieseldirect,they sell on ebay too.
There you have it
DmaxMaverick
11-15-2007, 00:14
Counterfeit blocks? International/Navistar should have something to say about that. The FTC would be interested, too. Was it just "506", or the entire casting number? Either way, it shouldn't (can't) be a 506 block.
TurboDiverArt
11-15-2007, 03:59
Something definitely smells fishy to me!
Art.
Counterfeit blocks? International/Navistar should have something to say about that. The FTC would be interested, too. Was it just "506", or the entire casting number? Either way, it shouldn't (can't) be a 506 block.
I'd be tempted to make copies of everything i had on it, turn that over to International/Navistar and the FTC. Let them close them down both the US and CA and the people selling the bogus stuff!!
Don
I just thought I would add this reply I received to this post. I had mentioned before that I have the Reviva engine in my Sub and they claimed to have the new GEP blocks, but I had not asked them specifics. Well, I finally got around to that today and here is the reply I received.
"Bryan,
We only use the new General Engine Products blocks. There are companies that use the China casted blocks but let me assure you that you will not be getting that from us. Our drop in engine has new-block, heads, camshaft, injection pump, pistons, rings, gaskets and seals. We reman the turbo, injectors, water pump, crankshaft and connecting rods. I do not think that you will find a better product in the market that is better than ours. I f you have any other questions please give us a call.
John Hudson
Technical Sales Consultant
Reviva,Inc.
5130 Main St. NE
Minneapolis,Mn 55421
Phone-763-971-6251
Fax-763-390-3722
jhudson@reviva.com"
I think that is a very plain answer to the question on this company anyway. Just wanted to pass that along and include it for the archives as well.
Counterfeit blocks? International/Navistar should have something to say about that. The FTC would be interested, too. Was it just "506", or the entire casting number? Either way, it shouldn't (can't) be a 506 block.
I don't know what casting # are on the [real AMG block] I have never seen one yet.
but I can asure you the china made is a 506 block alright, and I don't believe they are counterfeit either. They look darn good I tell you.
I also know how to get them, but I am not about to get involved in the legal BS with nobody.
On the other hand ,by keeping these international/navistar blocks out of civilian hands only provokes this kind of thing. shame on them too.
DmaxMaverick
11-17-2007, 01:53
If they are made in China, and sport a 506 casting #, they are counterfeit. Good or bad, that's what they are. A true 506 would have been cast at the GM foundry. If they are not counterfeit, they are the same old blocks, recycled. I don't know which is better/worse, but time will tell. Most folks just want a good product at a good price, as with most things.
I agree about the GEP blocks. But, the lack of availability is likely due to military obligations, and limited production ability. Let's face it. The 6.5 is seen by most as a dying breed and not a sound investment. The few of us left are but a small niche market. In most cases, competition is good, but I doubt Navistar will change their production practice. I can't say I would do it any different. They are what they are, and are available, at a price. You can get them, just not at a price most will tolerate. So, here we are. Doing what we do, in this love/hate relationship.
Well, I also e-mailed GEP about the Reviva engine I have in my truck as I had read here that GEP doesn't sell bare blocks, so I wondered about what they did in fact use. From the reply I received GEP does apparently sell bare blocks to a wholesaler. It was relatively easy to contact them (they have an e-mail form on the GEP website) and something in the future I would recommend to others when considering investing in a new engine. Here is the reply I got with my original message below:
Mr. Lundquist,
It is my understanding that Reviva uses a short block configuration that
is supplied to them by a company that only uses the GEP block and piston in their build. Based on this, I would say that the block, camshaft, and piston are certainly original GEP OEM stock. I can't verify that the heads and crank are OEM, but they could be.
Joe Hayes
Director of Marketing
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Lundquist [mailto:bryanlundquist@prodigy.net]
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 2:48 PM
To: Hayes, Joe
Subject: GEP - Sales Information Form from amgeneral.com (http://amgeneral.com/)
Contacts Information:
Bryan Lundquist
630 Stetson Rd.
Kenduskeag, ME 04450
Phone: (207) 884-4005
Email: bryanlundquist@prodigy.net
Comments:
I recently purchased an engine from Reviva (www.reviva.com (http://www.reviva.com/)) and they
claim to use the Optimizer 6500 block and new heads as the basis of their
engines. However, I have read many places about companies selling
Chinese imitations. I want to ensure the longevity of my engine and
figured I would go to the source and find out if they are an authorized
supplier of your product.
Thank You
Bryan
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