Late 80's Vans - Where does Glow Controller live?

[gavio]

Hi Y'all:

Can anyone tell me where the factory puts the all-in-one glow controller in the later model 6.2 G-Vans?

Reason I ask is that I updated my '83 with the later style glow controller, and for lack of anything better, mounted the unit where the factory had located my original glow controller - the back of the driver's side cylinder head. It works fine for the most part (been 3 or 4 years now), but occasionally I have a warm start issue. It shows up when the van has been run hard, or it's very hot out, and the van has been parked for maybe 1/2 hour or an hour. The glow plugs will light only briefly or not at all, and the van will not start without prolonged cranking and repeated attempts, if it starts at all. When it cools down more, it starts no problem.

I suspect that at least one factor could be heat buildup from the exhaust and hot asphalt collecting under the tight confines of the doghouse and causing the glow controller to read falsely, thus not cycling the glows as long as needed for the engine in those moments.

The van has no other starting issues, and the starter is fresh, batteries and cables good, etc.

Thanks for any input.

Gavio

[john8662]

You put the controller where the factory put it.

I did the same thing on Dad's 83 G-van. No starting issues as of yet.

It used to have a hot start issue with a dragging starter, Fresh Autolite starter and hot batteries, it fires every time, at least with a decent crank on the first try with no glow.

And, well, you can almost air a tire off the oil filler tube.. :rolleyes:

So compression isn't top-notch.

Gunna Fix this soon!

J

[gavio]

Thanks, John - so much for my theory........

I'll have to go digging deeper. I'm thinking maybe battery cables next....... even though they seem good. That positive cable to starter is apparently a dealer-only item, though, and I bet it ain't cheap!

Gavio

[john8662]

I haven't seen the need to replace the batter to starter lead, worst case do a splice with HD electrical lugs.


J

[gavio]

Well, I'm not really wanting to replace those cables, either........

They actually aren't all that old (5 or 6 years). Turns out I can replace the whole set for a mere $250 or so (at Rock Auto - GM list is about $500 for the two positives and the negative!)

I'm gettin' a bit frustrated, though, I have to say. I have a ghost charging issue, where something often seems to be pulling the electical system down, keeping charging voltage from staying up at 14 volts. The charging system issue may just be that my alternator is not up to the job of maintaining three batteries (two starting and one camping), although it used to do it OK. On that front, I will probably try to get an old alternator rebuilt as a high output alternator which should clear that up, assuming it's the problem.

But then I have this occasional phantom hot-start problem, which seems unrelated as it can happen at times after a long drive where the voltage HAS come up to 14 and stayed there so the batteries should be all perked up. Also, it happened a couple times to me before I had the third battery installed.

It's startin' ta agitate me just a bit and I don't know where else to look - Alternator & batteries are new or recent, and test good, battery cables look fine, connections all appear clean and tight - the charging system checks out for proper functioning when tested, the starter is almost new, and kicks the engine over without hesitation - except of course, for sometimes.

It sux 'cuz I can't know for sure if I've still got the problem or not...... until/unless it happens again.

Any ideas?

[john8662]

If just one of your batteries has a bad cell it could be pulling the sytem down and not letting the other batteries take the charge.

Since you're charging 3 batteries, I'd suggest a more capable alternator.

I think the factory one is 80 amps.

Might call some local alternator shops and see what they suggest, if you have a spare one off the van, that could help them identify which one you have and your options.

Sounds like the cranking is up to par though.

Do you have the ability to record and audio clip? I can tell from the sound of the crank whether or not it's cranking fast enough.

It should (with the direct-drive starter) start with just bumping the start position on your ignition when hot. In other words, kill the engine when up to operating temp. Then start it back up, should just "bust right off".

If not, then the starter isn't up to par, dragging.

I've taken starters into the store that still started the engine, but were dragging, they tested good as well on the test stand. But, the new starter did the trick of cranking over the 'ol engine.

J

[gavio]

Hi John:

I have replaced starters twice on this rig - both times they would start the van most of the time, but were getting just a bit too tired to start it when hot. In both cases, it was beginning to start a wee bit slower when cold as well. What's different now is that this starter was just put on in the fall (this past fall) so it's very fresh. It immediately corrected the problem I was having at the time, and still seems to be functioning fine. It will indeed kick over a freshly run engine with just a quick hit of the ignition switch. In most cases, in fact, cold or whenever, even in subzero temps this winter, it starts Pronto - like 1 or 2 seconds of cranking. There's just this one kind of circumstance, which I can't even fully define 'cuz it doesn't happen a lot, where it gives me trouble.

At this point, I'm thinking that it's possible that my second battery was getting tired - I know yer supposed to keep 'em as pairs, but I had been broke when the first gave out, so I'd only replaced the one. I replaced it recently even though it tested "OK, but needs charge" on the chance that although testing OK, it was not fully taking a charge, leaving me short when I most need it.

The problem may be solved already, but of course I can't know for sure. It seems to only happen when everything is fully cooked - long drive followed by brief-but-not-too-brief shutdown - say 20 minutes to 2 hours. Once everything is cold again, it's like nothing's wrong. That's why I was thinking cables mebbe.

One other thing........ where is the main battery ground-to-engine cable attached to your van's engine? Mine has always been attached at the front exhaust manifold bolt, which seems a bit strange, but since it came to me that way and hasn't particularly given trouble, I left it alone...... does get me to wondering, though?

Oh, and I took my spare alternator to a good rebuilder guy today and he's gonna give me the laydown on what can be done to liven it up to better deal with the extra charging loads - so hopefully there will be some improvement in that department.

SO that's what I know right now - thanks for lending me your brainwaves - if you think of anything else, please let me know.

Gavio

[john8662]

Gavio,

The connection to ground from the battery at the exhaust manifold sounds odd in deed.

Next time I'm around the g-van I'll see if I can find it. I was riding around in it just today too.

Maybe they'll be driving it tomorrow too.

You're welcome for the help.

J