Shopping for Duramax, hows 211,000 miles?

[TurboBob]

I'm starting to look for a new(to me) diesel truck. I'd like to find a 2wheel drive so that I can put in my driveline, NV4500 w/NP205 t/c, 14bolt rear(full floater) and Dana 44 front. I've installed this driveline in my old truck over several years, most of it has been recently overhauled, but I've decided I need the crewcab too. I just found a 2001 crewcab longbed(I need both), in Az, it's 2WD but the only thing that has me worried is 211,000 miles on the engine, obviously I don't care about the mileage on the rest. They're asking $9995.00. What does the braintrust here think of that kind of mileage on a Duramax? How many more miles do you think I can expect out of it ? Can anyone give me a ballpark figure on a stock rebuild cost of this engine? Thanks

[rob from bc canada]

Ummm, so what are you buying exactly?

- your own driveline - no value there

- life expectancy of engine could be 0-100,000 miles or more, depending on what they did to it.

(If they're selling the whole truck for 10 grand, I think they know something they're not telling you

- life expectancy of tranny 0-???

- a Body and cab of ?? quality

- being from AZ I think the frame should be solid - if it hasn't been in any crashes!!!

Not too many people talk about rebuilding DMAX's - most buy replacements on EBAY or out of wrecked truck or otherwise.

[DmaxMaverick]

I can understand wanting SFA, but....

Why an inferior rear end and tranny? Why a weak D44 front? You'd be better fitting a Duramax engine into a truck with all that stuff already.

What you describe would be fine for a 1/2 ton. Nowhere near the beef of an HD or 1 ton.

If you want an HD/Duramax SFA in a newer body, you'd be way ahead (money and otherwise) getting an HD 4x4, and converting the front end. I've seen several done like that, and they're nice.

[TurboBob]

What I need that I don't have, 1, crewcab, 2, diesel. I currently have gas engine and standard cab longbed. I need the longbed for work, and the crew cab for travel, the need for the crewcab is what started me looking for a new truck. I can't believe most owners would rather buy an engine of unknown history to stick in their truck, than rebuild the one they have, that doesn't make any sense to me.:confused:

I disagree completely with what you say about my drivleline except for the Dana 44 front, but the Dana 44 SFA is what I have. If I had the budget I'd go with a Dana 60, but I believe the axle I have would be an improvement over the IFS(which uses a Dana 44 center section). As for the trans, I don't like automatics, and there is no stronger manual trans-t/c package than an NV4500 mated to an NP205 t/c, sure there are better geared t/cs but you can't argue with a cast iron case and all gear drive, no chains for me thanks. And any issues with 5th gear were resolved when I mated the trans & t/c. Btw, the NV5600 gained a gear for 6 speeds, but is generally seen as a step backwards in strength. As for the 14 bolt rear, mine is a 10 1/2 inch full floater w/disc brakes, not the semi floating 14 bolt the new trucks get, I've broken one of these new 14 bolt axles and seen others fail, that's why I have the older 14 bolt, there's plenty of axle experts out there that rate this and the Dana 70 together as the 2 best axles ever put under a pickup. Just because it's newer, doesn't mean it's better.

[93_Burrito]

TurboBob,

Duramax trucks are equipped with the AAM 11.5" full-floating rear axle. Gearing is 3.73:1. In a head-to-head comparison with a 14-bolt full-floater, they are pretty even in terms of strength. The AAM gets the nod though, because it has larger bearings and therefore can support a heavier load. I don't know about the current trucks, but I'm pretty sure the '01 - '04 trucks came with rear disc brakes. I think GM went back to drums in '05 because of parking brake problems...

In the May 2006 issue of Diesel Power Magazine, there is an article on page 92 about a 2005 2WD Duramax conversion to a solid front axle with a '79 Ford Dana 60 and divorced Ford NP205 t-case. This truck utilized a kit from Off-Road Unlimited.

If I were you, and this would be like finding a needle in a haystack, I'd look for a truck with a ZF-6 manual transmission. The factory dual-mass flywheel can be a potential problem, but there are some real nice clutches available for it, and you can convert to an aftermarket solid flywheel for the win. Want a double-disc clutch? You can have one of them, too.

I wouldn't worry much about the Dana 44 unless you were putting large tires on the truck or you plan on adding power to the Duramax. I've seen several GM Dana 60's in the $600 range. If you were to score a Duramax with a ZF-6, I'd consider selling the NV4500 and 14-bolt rear to get the Dana 60. That would be one heck of a setup.


Andy

[TurboBob]

Thanks Andy for a legitimate answer, with options and info to back up what you say.:) I've lurked at this forum a bit over the past year and other than your response, I expected a bit more help than I've seen so far.

[DmaxMaverick]

TurboBob

Sorry you didn't find the help you were expecting. But, when you propose a project that does not appear sound (to some), you won't get much support. Installing 1/2 ton, and what's considered light weight, components, into an HD isn't going to provoke much enthusiasm. Most will just stay out of it.

I'm not saying what you propose won't work. Just that it is not what most of the gear heads would recommend. The NP205 TC is stout, but the durability of the current TC's have stood up to monster power. There is an issue with the pump housing, but it has nothing to do with durability, and I have yet to hear of chain issues. I've seen 205's crumble under much less, gears or no gears. The AAM 1150 will stand up to anything the 10.5 will, and then some. It's rated by the mfg at near a ton over the 10.5. How many axle Mfg's rate their axle at more than the GVWR of the vehicle it's on? The answer is one. If you are set on a hand-shaker, that's your preference. If you haven't tried the Allison, give it a shot before you count it out, if it's on a truck you are considering. An auto to manual conversion on the late trucks will probably be more headache than it's worth. Your NV4500 is a good tranny, but will only stand up to stock Duramax output, or a little more. You'll need to build it if you plan on adding any significant power. I still would not recommend the D44 under the HD, under any circumstances. Keep in mind, the front end on the HD carries nearly a 1/2 ton more than a 1/2 ton gasser....before you think about towing.

It's my opinion that what you are asking of your equipment isn't sound. That doesn't mean it won't work. 93_Buritto offers good advice, and he's right. No point throwing good out for as good, not as good.

[93_Burrito]

The Dana 44 can be upgraded in strength by converting to full 35-spline axles and stronger U-joints. Looking at TurboBob's sig, I'm guessing he may have done a little upgrading when he went to 8-lug axles front and rear to live happily with his built motor. The Dana 50 used in Ford Super Duty F-250's is nothing more than a frankenstein combo of a Dana 44 centersection with Dana 60 outer components. All that being said, it may end up costing as much to upgrade the Dana 44 as it would to pick up a GM Dana 60.

Back to the truck in question with 211,000 miles. If economics are truly an issue, I would look long and hard at the truck's service history before making an offer on it. Having over 200,000 miles on the clock means it is no longer covered by GM's extended warranty regarding fuel injectors. Get the VIN of the truck and have it looked up at your local dealer to see if it has already had its injectors replaced. If not, you could be living on borrowed time before an enormous repair bill surfaces. To tie into my last post, $600 for a GM Dana 60 would be small potatoes compared to footing the bill to replace 8 injectors.

Other members will have to enlighten you on the other potential quirks of the '01 Duramax, I lurk around the 6.5L TD area... good luck.

Andy