6.5 Girdle

[More Power]

The custom engine work shown here was performed by Andrew Ashwill in 2002.

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/ashwill9.jpg

Andrew did some great custom machining that I thought should be shown to those who weren't here in the BB five years ago. :)

Jim

[82blazer]

Did this also have a custom pan? I have been thinking of trying to mill one myself but not quite as elaborate. Also where did you get the studs from? P.S. It does look good!

[Slim shady]

Can one be purchased from him now. I would like one of those.

That is some beautiful machine work. I am teary eyed just looking at it. Heck I might just make that my computer background.

[Robyn]

Custom Main caps with cross bolts and the whole 9 yards.
IF that wont keep the bottom end together, doubtful anything will.

This fine piece and a steel crank would make the 6.5 a real 10 for sure.

[gmctd]

Didn't he sell that truck\engine a while back?

[82blazer]

I have came up with a design that covers all 5 main caps but I seemed to have reached a snag I'm having trouble locating bolts. I need 12x1.75x85mm. any ideas? These things fit but I need longer bolts. Studs won't fit under the pan on the #1 main cap. :confused:

[redbird2]

looking for bolts if you have a Fastenal in your area contact them if they don't have the bolts thay can custom make you the bolts you need to your specs.

great looking machine work on this really nice

[JeepSJ]

Have you talked to ARP?

[More Power]

Slim, If you or anyone else would like to contact Andrew for a block girdle or any other custom machining, send me a PM with your email address, and I'll forward your note to him. I was in contact with Andrew as recently as a couple of months ago. I don't know if he does custom work for others, but it wouldn't hurt to ask... :) His custom Jesel roller rockers look really cool too!

Jim

[JeepSJ]

I am a big fan of roller rockers. There is a lot of friction (heat, HP loss...) where those suckers ride on those shafts.

[Slim shady]

More Power,I sent you a PM with my cell number. I am interested in the girdle if I can afford it. i like his work, still brings tears to my eyes. I did make it my screen saver and my background picture. Dam I like good machine work.

Slim

[More Power]

Your message has been forwarded... :)

Jim

[gophergunner]

looking for a little clarification here........i'm thinking that the girdle is just extra support or strength for your crank bearings to prevent the typical cracking on the block....am i right? sorry if it sounds stupid but i just wasn't positive and was hoping for an answer

I'm also wondering if its better to have the girdle or the splayed main caps.......i'd rather not take it to the machine shop because i'm not planning on doing a full rebuild just yet.

also curious if something like the girdle is easy to install, and are they rather readily available?

if adding the girdle is a good way to ensure i don't crack my block i'm thinking i should do it while i have the engine out of my truck.

thanks in advance for any advice

[MaxPF]

My instincts tell me the girdle is plenty adequate.

I had an epiphany when I was working on my build. I dropped the crank in the block and was staring at it when the cause of block failures occured to me.

When the cylinder in any engine fires around TDC the stress put on the crank is not torsional, as many people think (that happens many degrees of rotation later), but rather a bending moment. LAter in the rotation there is a combined torsiona and bending moment. These bending moments flex the crank in the main bearing supports, and tend to push the caps back and forth along the axis of the main bearing bore. This, combined with the spreading force put on the main cap block threads from the bolts and the limited thread engagement of the outer holes, is what I believe initiates cracks in this region.

A sturdy girdle (preferably much heavier than the one DSG sells, but the DSG girdle is far better than no girdle) ties the caps together, and minimizes movement in the axis parallel to the crank bore. In theory this should drastically reduce the stress on the main webs. Since the caps won't move as much the crank's bending moment will also be reduced in magnitude, and this should (again, theoretically) reduce fatigue stress in the crank. Using studs in place of main bolts to get full thread engagement and reduce the spreading force on the bolt holes is also a big help. This is how I am building my 6.2, and I think these steps will pretty much solve the block and crank issues that these motors are known for.

[HammerWerf]

MP:

Any pictures of the Jesel Roller Rockers available to post?

I recall the Grape was experimenting with some Mopar Roller Rockers.

HammerWerf

[More Power]

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/ashwill-jesel.jpg

I just wish I had Andrew's machining skills... .:(

Jim

[gophergunner]

wow............i want!!!!!!!!!!:D

[Truckie117]

WOW does that fix the problem with those stupid nylon push pins who's Idea was that anyway? That is awesome machining.
Can I buy those anywhere?

[More Power]

The mods shown here were Andrew Ashwill's original ideas, as they pertain to the 6.5, and the full article was first published here in TDP in 2002. This electronic DS4 equipped 6.5 produced 226 horsepower and 426 lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels - on a chassis dyno. He was also running a Peninsular non-wastegated turbocharger and his own custom-built charge air cooler. Everything was top-drawer....

As I recall, the rockers and related components were off-the-shelf components, but the shaft mounts on the heads needed to be machined to accept them. You'll also note the aluminum spacer that raises the valve cover a small amount to provide a little more cover clearance - for the rocker adjusters. A little tin-smithing could work too, to create blisters in the valve covers for more rocker adjuster clearance... if it could be done in an aesthetic way. :)

Jim

[Slim shady]

I cant take any more. That man's machine work is spectacular, he is an artist when it comes to machine work.

I hope he will do a girdle for me.

[Shikaroka]

I am certainly interested in this.
I hope anyone that gets more information on these will post it up for all to see. I am curious to know the cost of these things, if he can build more.

[Slim shady]

I am certainly interested in this.
I hope anyone that gets more information on these will post it up for all to see. I am curious to know the cost of these things, if he can build more.


If I am contacted regarding the Girdle and there is information to share, I will.

[82blazer]

I'm using 12.9 cap screws and have installed one set on Blazin when we replaced the engine.(see post, oil in coolant) in seems to be going well and we didn't do any modifcations to the pan. It is made of 3/4" steel. When doing a search for girdles on e-bay they all seemed to be alum., am I not getting something?

[82blazer]

These are pictures of the prototype girdles. They fit on an otherwise unmodified motor, including the pan. The final version still does, but is 3/4 inch thick instead of 5/8 inch. All five mains are covered. Unfortunately, we don't have pictures of the 3/4 inch version because it is 1000 miles into use on the truck, and pictures weren't a priority when the engine was prepared. It seems to work fine. Of course, it takes much longer than 1000 miles to test a girdle.

[quickv6]

These are pictures of the prototype girdles. They fit on an otherwise unmodified motor, including the pan. The final version still does, but is 3/4 inch thick instead of 5/8 inch. All five mains are covered. Unfortunately, we don't have pictures of the 3/4 inch version because it is 1000 miles into use on the truck, and pictures weren't a priority when the engine was prepared. It seems to work fine. Of course, it takes much longer than 1000 miles to test a girdle.

How will that support the caps if the girdle is not tied into the block?

[Robyn]

The end caps 1 and 5 are very strong as they are fastened to the ends of the block where there is massive amounts of material and the girdle bars tie the whole lot together.
The best way of course is to do the complete girdle with the cross bolts and anchor everything along the way.

This simple tie bar is still a very worthwhile addition to any 6.5.

One thing that is absolutely a step in the right direction is to lightly chamfer the bolt holes in the block on all the mains especially the center ones.
The ragged sharp edges in the block are a perfect send off to getting cracks started down the outer bolt holes..

All really great stuff in this thread. Good tech and a step in the right direction.

Robyn

[82blazer]

In all the pictures posted in the thread (oil in the coolant) all the cracks seen to follow corners in the machine work ie. the piston bore. Robin is rigth that a sharp corner will not stand the pressure of a radius corner. The stress is spread over a larger area. All we can do is try to lessen the damage by rounding and bracing. Blazin has some personal value due to time spent with my son. So it is worth it to me to try.:) Question: Is the pattern on the mains the same on a 6.2l and a 6.5l?

[opto]

I would really like to have more information about the roller rockers shown
Which parts were used?
What machine work do I have to do?
Anyone know where to get this info??

[More Power]

Jesel roller rockers were used. The original mounts on the head need to be machined flat to accept the Jesel rocker bases.

The valve covers need to be modified to accept the increased height of the rocker adjusters - or do as Andrew did, and machine a 1/4" aluminum spacer to raise the covers (fits between the covers and the heads).

Jim

[opto]

Thanks for the info, but more specific which Jesel rockers?

Yes , to machine an aluminium spacer would defenetly be the way to go.

Would it be possible to get in touch with Andrew?

[opto]

Sorry to be bugging you about this but....

I had a look at the Jesel web page and couldn't find any rockers that looked like the ones used so I asked Jesels tech help to identify them. Answer is that this is not a Jesel rocker setup.

What could it be??

[More Power]

Working from memory sometimes isn't always "completely" accurate. My mistake. So....Here's a quote from Andrew's original article he wrote in 2002... Jim


The stock rocker arm pedestals were machined flat to accept the roller-rocker adapter blocks. The roller-rocker assemblies consist of Comp Cams adjustable stainless steel shaft-mount roller-rocker arms that have been modified for the 6.5 diesel. These assemblies utilize a roller bearing on the fulcrum of each rocker, along with roller tips. Each rocker shaft is .625" in diameter and case hardened to 62C Rockwell. The pushrod adjusters are made by Jesel, and retain the stock 6.5 pushrods.

[opto]

OK

Thanks a lot

[opto]

These are pictures of the prototype girdles. They fit on an otherwise unmodified motor, including the pan. The final version still does, but is 3/4 inch thick instead of 5/8 inch. All five mains are covered. Unfortunately, we don't have pictures of the 3/4 inch version because it is 1000 miles into use on the truck, and pictures weren't a priority when the engine was prepared. It seems to work fine. Of course, it takes much longer than 1000 miles to test a girdle.

Is the girdle still doing fine?

Would it be possible to get your drawing for the girdle??

[82blazer]

The girdle is still there and seems ok. This engine seems quieter but I never heard it before it was put into [I]Blazin[I], we are probably around 3000 miles and have done some towing with it. It is driven almost every day but normally not far my son uses it to go to school. I'll need to locate my drawing and get back with you.

[opto]

That would be great :D :D :D

[76m880]

im looking for a girdle also

[turbonator]

Hi 82blazer are your the girdles still in use in running trucks? Have you had the opportunity to open up a motor with the girdle installed? It's been a couple of years now and we would like to know the results after the motor was running with the bottom end strengthened up. Thank for the posts.:)

[turbonator]

Still hoping to have girdle updates, anyone.....:(

Anyway, heres pics of our first on a 6.5L tdi....:D

No, sorry no pics yet, I need to first reduce their size to upload...:)

[spdgofast]

Slim, If you or anyone else would like to contact Andrew for a block girdle or any other custom machining, send me a PM with your email address, and I'll forward your note to him. I was in contact with Andrew as recently as a couple of months ago. I don't know if he does custom work for others, but it wouldn't hurt to ask... :) His custom Jesel roller rockers look really cool too!

Jim

Hey Jim, I would like to see about getting a girdle and roller rockers from Andrew, feel free to send him my contact info.
Thanks, Dave

[dixiepc]

Jim,

Do you have any more information about Mr. Ashwill and his girdle?

[More Power]

It's been a couple of years since I last received an email from Andrew. At that time, his engine/truck was still running great.

[dixiepc]

I was wondering if he had ever offered this service.

[More Power]

It's too bad we can't get the girdle used on the new P400. I'd think that it could (& the older blocks could) be modified to work together. Jim

[dixiepc]

That would be awesome. Maybe someone that has one might do a trial fit for us.

[More Power]

To date, AM General hasn't made engine components available separately. So, I doubt they'd release the girdle as a separate item. Too bad...

[93drw]

I have came up with a design that covers all 5 main caps but I seemed to have reached a snag I'm having trouble locating bolts. I need 12x1.75x85mm. any ideas? These things fit but I need longer bolts. Studs won't fit under the pan on the #1 main cap. :confused:

Has blazer or anyone developed and installed a main girdle? Other than the sweet alumimum one. Id like to learn from the experience of others before plowing new ground. Is anyone producing one that connects all main caps. I know that a custom oil pan would be required. Thanks for your input and patience.

[93drw]

Is the stud girdle still performing well? Did you make or are you making kits for sale. I can build my own but if someone has already done it and it works why rock the boat?