6.5 crate engine /6.2 ancillaries - wont start

[RoyBatty]

Howdy Folks:

New to this truck - 84 short bed dual tank 4x4 - previous owner swap'd in a 2001 6.5 crate engine - did not install the turbo - and put on ancillaries of a 6.2 from Suburban - 1985/86 maybe ? ( he does not recall )

Lift pump is from said year Suburban as is all the fuel system

truck was running - sputtering a bit - one of the rubber return lines was leaking
while driving it just lost power and quit running

Changed fuel filter - square type mounted at back of intake manifold
not really sure how to bleed the system

sure I have the mechanical injection pump - no?

I read about the OPS - dunno if this will affect me or not due to having a mechanical lift pump

The coloured hoses are a veggie system no operational right now
here is what the fuel filter looks like -- Opps ... I cant upload foto's ( how do you get a decent look at anything at less than 40 Kb????

any suggestions would be great

Cheers thanks in advance

[JohnC]

Upload your photos to the photo galery then link to them in the forum.

A non-electriconic Diesel engine needs only air, fuel and compression to run. One of the three must be missing...

[gmctd]

The mech lift pump will be under the alternator between the exh manifold and the oil pan - just have to crank the engine to bleed that system.

Dunno if the '01 blocks were machined for the pump rod - follow the fuel lines from the tank, see if an electric pump has been plumbed in, power it up to bleed that system.

Either way, batteries need to be fully charged with good cable connections to get good cranking rpm, required to pump injection pressures.

[DickWells]

:) Roy:
Mechanical pump will have a throttle cable from pedal to pump. Electronic is drive-by-wire.
Square type filter is probably pre 93.
OPS shouldn't affect you unless the guy hooked it up to the old llift pump. If he did, then hook up a relay to get the higher amperage away from the OPS, as soon as possibe. Data for that can be found in the DP.
Bleeding? Dunno. Should be able to trace out the connections and bleeder screw, etc. Same as any diesel system. Assume you know how to crack the lines at the injecters to start it up, once you've gotten fuel to the pump?
You'll get some more intelligent responses than this in here in a day or two. Keep us posted and good luck.
Dick Wells:)

[RoyBatty]

Howdy Folks:

Uploaded 3 fotos -

First thing I did was crack no 5 hard line at injector - i think a few drops came out as I had a paper shop towel underneath to absorb - very little maybe a drop or 2 in 20 seconds of cranking - So I figured from other readings this system must have air in it - as I changed the fuel filter - truck was not running and different than any other diesel I've worked on - no prime pump for a mechanical system-

previous owner installed an electronic pump for one tank- the veggie tank - and I was thinking it had an electronic pump for main tank - till I spoke with guy who installed crate engine - who said the lift pump was mechanical and from a 6.2 Mid 80's Suburban

I'll be back at it tomorrow with a charged battery and cracking at least 3 lines

thanks for the notes so far

cheers ya

[wthif]

the veggie tank

Cold temps could be your problem. Fuel gelled up.

Not sure of your location, but if your truck is in 30 degree weather the veggie fuel could be having some problems. Also you might of got air in your system after replacing the fuel filter.

[RoyBatty]

howdy wthif:

Nope - jelling in not a problem as system is not operational right now- and in the Phoenix valley AZ.

did manage to work on truck this afternoon - cracked all hard lines - nadda
tested voltage to pink wire to injector pump - 11.6 and clicked and heard the spark when I re- connected

ran/ traced the fuel lines - I believe I have a mechanical lift pump - and this is not operational

i believe I read about these truck they have 3 pumps no? a frame mount , a mechanical /electric ( depending on your year ) lift pump and the IP
So will try and locate a new lift pump tomorrow - dunno if I should switch to an electric lift pump?

so I ask the experts - what do you say - as I am just learning about this engine - your thoughts - appreciate all opinions

Cheers thanks

[DickWells]

Roy, did you find a round cylindrical 12 V pump on the left frame rail somewhere? That would be the lift pump for a 90s 6.5 electronic. Did you find a mechanical pump on the left side of the engine per GMCTD's note, while tracing those lines? Don't need the 12 V one, with the mechanical. I don't see you having the mechanical pump, though, from what I've read from you. I may be wrong, but I don't believe that your IP will lift enough to start your engine, even if the IP is electronic. The electronic would keep the rig going, once it's started, albeit, not very well.
The lift pump on an electronic, or in your case mechanical, IP is hooked up to the oil pressure sender, so that in a wreck, the fuel supply will shut down once the engine stalls and oil pressure drops. That's why most of us put in a relay, so that the OP switch contacts don't burn out from running the LP.
I think that once you find your lift pump, and get it working, that you'll get fuel to the IP and be able to bleed your inj lines. I assume that your IP is timed close enough to run fairly well if it's getting fuel.
Good luck, again.
Dick:)

[RoyBatty]

Howdy DickWells;

Cheers thanks for the note ;

I found the lift pump - pretty sure it is meachanical - as I spoke with the installer and he said all fuel system came from 85/86 Suburban - i asked mechanical lift pump - he said yes - So I picked one today for an 87 ( supposed to have check valve ) will get to the lift pump maybe Sunday

See what I am thinking is he ( P O ) bought the new crate engine but did not want to poney up the money for new ancillaries to mate the 2001 6.5 ( came with turbo - but never installed -so he used left overs from a busted 86 6.2

If you were to install turbo it would need a different IP no? -

truck was running fine till a few days ago - yet as mentioned before - was sputtering a bit - like air in the system - and I saw burbbling in a few of the return lines when I replaced the hard lines and tightened - stopped by local diesel shoppe today looking for the return line clamps - he said they dont use - just a braided cloth covered line now that pushes on tight

Will reports back with results when I get in there - doesnt look too hard to swap in a new lift pump

Cheers thanks for your assist

enjoy weeks end

[DickWells]

:) Shouldn't need a different IP. Hopefully, you have a mechanical IP. That way, you only have a couple of 12v wires to worry about. You WILL have to thiink a lot about how you will control boost. At this point, it sounds like you will use a straight mechanical control. Lots of other things, too numerous to mention.
The experts from the DP can help you a lot more than I, and they can correct me if I'm wrong, but, it seems to me that you would do well to lay in a supply of reference material. Look in the member's area, and find the manuals and feature articles. All the stuff that you've mentioned in this thread have been discussed in the DP many times. You just need to get them in black and white in front of you, to use first-hand as needed. Makes great bed-side reading, too. Well worth the money to get them. Might even get a member or two to part with old reference material. Save some money. Someone who's gone to a Duramax from a 6.5, maybe?
Keep on keeping on, and keep us posted.
DW:)

[RoyBatty]

Howdy DickWells :

Ok - I went to replace the lift pump - and of course - no lift pump - I could not see too well with the alternator in the way - but assumed as I saw a fuel line there - it would be the lift pump - plus the installer also told me he remebered a mechanical lift pump

So I really got in there and pulled all the fuel lines off for the veggie system - just to see if it was the rail mounted fuel pump / switch over valve or IP

seems to be the switch over valve-

So just to get the truck running i will bypass the switch over valve

Now - I am a bit lost here as I am not dealing with a stock system
How should I hook up the injector return line- someone gotta a foto they can direct me to so I can take cues from - see what the standard hookup is

cheers thanks in advance

hers what i am working with http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/1-6.JPG

[DickWells]

Sorry,can't help you here Roy. Too far away from Suburban and manuals. Can someone else jump in here and tell him where those return lines hook up? I remember that they "T" together, right in front of the IP, but don't remember where they plug into the pump. Since the inlet to the pump is under the intake manifold, I would think that the return line inlet would be obvious. But, that's a heck of a conglomeration of hoses in that picture!
You need those manuals and feature articles from the late 90s, Roy!
Keep trying.
DW:)

[RoyBatty]

Howdy DickWells:

those hoses you see , and the valve is a set up for a veggie system - sinse I have yet to hear more on this OEM valve hookup - i am going to try and run the wiring to the valve to see if I can find where a short may have been - or something of that nature-

thanks

cheers

[gmctd]

The injector return lines on each bank tie to a crossover tube across the front, behind the T-stat crossover.

One tee from there goes back to the tank, the hose on the other tee ties in to the top of the Inj Pump

[RoyBatty]

Howdy GMCTD:

thanks for the post:

Anyone got a foto they might direct me to - a s I am am not dealing with a stock system - wanna see what the conenctions look like / size hose - etc..

Cheers thanks

[DickWells]

:) Roy: The guys (and gals) need to see where you live. You can get all kinds of help in the DP, but it would be a whole lot easier if you could get hooked up with someone close by you that maybe has the data you're looking for and could shoot it off to you real quick. I'm sure it wouldn't cost a lot. For instance, if you had the 6.5 R&R guide, you'd be maybe 90% there already. Lots of photos and a world of experience in that one book.
You can do personal messaging in here, too, if you are willing to furnish your personal data with the membership.
Just for WIW and best wishes.
DW

[wthif]

:) Roy: The guys (and gals) need to see where you live.

Honestly if you were close I'd drive over and try to help you.

[HammerWerf]

RoyBatty

From you pictures, the intake and filter assembly appears to be from a Van ( G series)

Filter Bleed valve is best seen in you closeup of the filter. The black X or + is the valve handle. Trace the hose that comes off the side under the valve and put a catch container to contain the fuel.

Fuel filter drain valve should be the brass valve near the oil fill.

MEchanical Fuel pump is located in standard chevy location. Only one pump with this model year.

Trucks from 1984 did not come with OPS from the factory. Might be an add-on.

For the requested photo of return lines. Where are you mainly interested in, or would a couple of shots on the front of the engine work?

HammerWerf

[RoyBatty]

Howdy Hammer:

Ok so here is where I am now - No power to the shut off valve - is green wire to solenoid in front of the injector pump- this wire, still green , also runs back to another solenoid on the pass side of the injector pump - low just in front and below the air cleaner- in the foto I posted - you can see this green wire just below the " Tee" handle bleed valve

Got the selector switch wired properly for the POLLAK selector valve - got fuel going to fuel filter and cracked all hard fuel lines - fuel is coming out all lines

as this only has one battery - used to be a gasoline engine - cranking is limited to about 30 seconds- and interesting - the neg cable connector MELTED - there is a bunch of high end electronics in the rig - figure Im going to start removing the power to these as I'm sure there is a short

Still - perplexed by the fact I had power to that green wire with ignition on last week and now nadda- I did jump a wire directly to these 2 solenoids direct from battery to hidden solenoid- figured as the way its wired it must power both
Will check tomorrow the glow plugs as well as try bleeding the return lines from the " tee " in the front on the stalk

But from what i'm explaining - any ideas?

Cheers thanks in advance



But - any ideas - im getting fuel

[gmctd]

Ok, dude from bladerunner, here's the skinny -

That green wire is the HPCA-Fast Idle supply - comes from the HPCA switch on the passenger-side rear head, just back of the #8 exhaust port.

Switch is closed below 85deg, opens above 95deg, iirc - connects Ign thru orange wire on switch.

Green wire connects to the HPCA solenoid on the side of the IP, then to the Fast Idle solenoid on the throttle arm lever on the opposite side of the IP.

The Fuel Shutoff Solenoid - on top of the IP - power should be a large pink or red wire

dekkerd

[RoyBatty]

Howdy GMCTD :

Cheers thanks for that - makes more sense

Ok I will bleed system from the "Tee: handle later after repairing neg cable connect and see where it goes from there

Cheers again thanks