6.5 TD OBD2 Tuning Software Announcement

[ECMProgrammer]

It's been months of private testing (and years of planning), and the first update packages have been sent out to our DDT Duramax software users--as free updates to their systems as originally promised. These select people now have the only 1996-2003+ 6.5 TurboDiesel OBD2 Editing and reprogramming package available. The package also includes the H1 to the current year of 6.5TD use, as well as 2001-2006 Duramax coverage (Non Bosch ECM).
The software packages include hardware interface, CD, Manuals and free tech support and is available under a few flavors.

1. Single Year GMT system--choose the year vehicle you want to reprogram. Includes all supported GM models for that year, including gas powerplants. Free software scan tool. Always a free download.
2. Multiple Year platforms (Single year basic, plus years of choice)--Free software scan tool. Always a free download.
3. All inclusive GMT system for all years (1996-2007) with free future updates. (The competitors charge for their updates--we never will). Free software scan tool. Always a free download.
Operating systems must be at least Windows 98 and 400MHz processor for proper communication.

You can now tune your Turbo diesel the way you want it, or let us tune it for you. For more information, check our website, or email us directly.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage
1-888-WESTER-1
ecmprogrammer@eidnet.org
lwester@telusplanet.net

[Shikaroka]

I couldn't find it on your site.
Is it listed yet? If so, can you point us in the right direction?

[ECMProgrammer]

Listed in the software price listings...you can buy as a multiple year package or single user (no license limit) setup. Free scanner included. Sorry for responding late, been very busy updating templates.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
1-888-WESTER-1

[gherrell]

Well...

You had me right up to the price. $1299....????? WTF????

Are you trying to tell us that you can't even come close to the price of an EFI Live setup?

Best of Luck selling that Lyndon. Methinks that you ought not wasted your time (and ours)...

Ditto that on the OBDI package, as well.

[derekja]

no, I think that price is reasonable for a shop expecting to do a few of these a year. It's just not realistic for an owner that wants to play with a single vehicle.

I wish carcode had your user interface...

[gherrell]

no, I think that price is reasonable for a shop expecting to do a few of these a year. It's just not realistic for an owner that wants to play with a single vehicle.

I wish carcode had your user interface...

That is a very valid point. However, I would argue that the readily available (and high quality) pre-packaged tunes such as those offered by Lyndon, Heath, and SS diesel will prevent much of a demand for smaller shops to outlay this kind of dough for a system to tune (2) or (3) 6.5's per year. That is a really lousy ROI on a piece of equipment (software). In addition, Lyndon's software is out of reach for most tinkers (like me), as you previously noted.

So as I had alluded previously, it seems to me that to offer this software at this price was a waste of time for all. The EFI Live business model, with its software being "affordable" by the individual yet powerful enough for "professionals", is a much more viable premise.

Why would I as an individual pay $1300 for this package to tinker when I can buy a packaged tune from one of several vendors (who are willing to tinker with me) for 1/3 the cost? Similarly, why would I have a small shop "custom tune" my 6.5 when I could likely purchase a pre-packaged tune (tried and true) cheaper? Finally, as a small shop, how many tunes do I have to sell (for 6.5's) to justify this cost and deliver a reasonable ROI? Perhaps a shop could justify this expense, but I believe the main motivation for Lyndon to bring this to market was multiple requests from individuals (like me) who would like to tinker...just not for $1300 worth of tinkering!!!

[Kennedy]

The Westers tuning software is targeted at the workshop level. You will find VERY FEW actual "tuners" of the 6.5 out there. Heath and SS Diesel do not do their own. Kennedy OBD1 chips have always been unique and recently I began tweaking on my own with Westers OBD1 software. It is a decent program, but takes a quite a bit to learn what to change and how much. I will now begin tuning the OBD2 vehicles in house when I receive my Westers tuning software.

[ronniejoe]

I can say beyond all doubt that his new tune beats anything else on the market. Also included is automatic extended glow time for low compression engines.

[gherrell]

The Westers tuning software is targeted at the workshop level. You will find VERY FEW actual "tuners" of the 6.5 out there. Heath and SS Diesel do not do their own...

So...it sounds as though you proved my point. If there are very few 6.5 tuner (shops), then there is a very small market for this product (at this price).

I am not trying to take anything away from you or what you do, John. I am simply trying to make the point that an EFI Live-type business model would make this software much more profitable for Wester's (Lyndon). Why couldn't this product tune 6.5's only for ~$700 to $800 with a license scheme to prevent multiple tunings from one license (without additional licensing fees)?

I would love to buy a copy, but not for $1300.00. You yourself state that there are "very few tuners" for the 6.5 out there and then name 2 well-known 6.5TD chip/programming vendors that you then allege do not even do their own work! That means that the current "shops" that tune are even fewer than previously thought!

Just IMHO...

[Kennedy]

You'd have to ask Lyndon what drives his strategies, but I see a couple of things:

1) Tech support for hundreds or thousands of units sold would be a huge issue.

2) In most cases, the average Joe has no business jacking with the tuning.

I know of only 2 major sources doing 6.5 OBD2 and a possible 3rd mystery source from a label I saw on a core ECM. The 3rd could be a relabel. On the OBD1 eproms, there's probably only a handful as well.

[ECMProgrammer]

Seriously--we don't have the time for individual tech support for people who don't have automotive knowledge--although, sometime in the future (far future) this may be a reality. We deal largely with tuning shops and supply them with their tuning solutions, do their editing for them, show them what makes the largest differences, and we tell them (more importantly) what NOT to do, and the reasons why in some cases.

These tuning shops know for the most part what they're doing, they've usually got the proper scan tool equipment and they've also got a chassis dyno, and a lot of automotive experience. They've had these things apart from stem to stern--and they know what makes them tick.

Even if the OBD1 system was priced at $800, I don't believe we'd sell any more of them...initially for the OBD2 system it may be $400 more to lay out--although you'll find in the long run our OBD2 system is thousands less than other available systems. BTW--there are no other available tuning systems for OBD1 or OBD2 6.5TD editing other than Westers Garage.

I think John Kennedy easily recognized the tables he'd need to modify to make the necessary changes to make power and mileage with the 6.5TD--without extensive help menus that most lay people wouldn't understand anyways. As we make even more available editing functions in the software, the people that daily work with these systems will really like the variety to finally cure some of the ills these rigs came with from the factory.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage
1-888-WESTER-1

[gherrell]

Seriously--we don't have the time for individual tech support for people who don't have automotive knowledge--although, sometime in the future (far future) this may be a reality. We deal largely with tuning shops and supply them with their tuning solutions, do their editing for them, show them what makes the largest differences, and we tell them (more importantly) what NOT to do, and the reasons why in some cases.

These tuning shops know for the most part what they're doing, they've usually got the proper scan tool equipment and they've also got a chassis dyno, and a lot of automotive experience. They've had these things apart from stem to stern--and they know what makes them tick.

Even if the OBD1 system was priced at $800, I don't believe we'd sell any more of them...initially for the OBD2 system it may be $400 more to lay out--although you'll find in the long run our OBD2 system is thousands less than other available systems. BTW--there are no other available tuning systems for OBD1 or OBD2 6.5TD editing other than Westers Garage.

I think John Kennedy easily recognized the tables he'd need to modify to make the necessary changes to make power and mileage with the 6.5TD--without extensive help menus that most lay people wouldn't understand anyways. As we make even more available editing functions in the software, the people that daily work with these systems will really like the variety to finally cure some of the ills these rigs came with from the factory.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage
1-888-WESTER-1


Lyndon -

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but your response to my queries just comes across as "blah, blah, blah".

If you designed your software package (and priced it accordingly) for tuning shops, then just say that and stop. That's fair enough. I am telling you that I hang out on this and other boards enough to know that there is a demand for "consumer" level software that can tune OBDI 6.5's. You will never convince me that there is a reasonable demand for this software from "tuning shops". Could you post some shops in the states (other than Kennedy, Heath, and SS Diesel) that will custom tune/burn a PROM for me? Methinks that list will be extraordinarily short. Hence, the need to consider making this available (cost-wise) to the end-user.

Please, please, please stop with the arrogant attitude of "most people won't know what to do anyway" crap. This board and others get enough of this from Kennedy, without your throwing gas on the fire. This elitist attitude from you and JK certainly will not help sell more products. While we are on this topic (how john q public won't know how to use your product without hand-holding): Does this mean that you do not require a signed waiver of liability for every copy of this type of software sold (to tuning shops)? If one of these so-called tuning shops does manage to do something bad to a customers engine (with your software), do you cover the cost of the repairs? I am betting not!!!! So given this, how would it be any different if this software were sold to end-users?

I digress. In the end, if you want to target a very narrow market of tuning shops interested in messing with the 6.5 diesel, then so be it. I just do not understand how you could achieve a reasonable ROI for this product. Furthermore, the elitist attitude that proclaims all end-users to be too stupid and ill-equipped (paraprasing) to do their own tuning is just embarrassing for you (and Kennedy) and only serves to demonstrate that you do not understand or appreciate the public, to which you sell...

Sorry, one more quick question: If you intended to sell this to tuning shops, why did you post this announcement on this board, which is frequented by primarliy end-users (you know, the people too stupid and ill-equipped to use your products)?

[gmctd]

Possibilities of ?

Reducing fuel to n\a levels at loss of Boost pressure - no more black smoke, and would definitely trigger Boost DTC - triggers now at hi-Boost, only

Using available uncommited temperature input for potentiometer which would set max Boost via normal PCM Boost control - would eliminate mechanical WG control, could be controlled from the inst panel for up to 20+psi, yet PCM could still cut boost at unsafe condition

PCM would still monitor Boost to reduce fuel, but instead of IAT flag, unnecessary for a truck with charge-air cooler, would use.......

an uncommitted O2 input, which would be connected to a pyrometer probe for EGT input - PCM would pull fuel increasingly as exhaust temperature rises toward excessive levels - match specific tc output range to appropriate O2 sensor range

Fuel control based on EGT would be suitable for all varieties, 'cooled or not

Could gain any necessary eprom\flash mem by eliminating EGR and MAF program modules hidden in the "F" programs

PCM has those uncommitted inputs available - just need to assign 'em from the gasser tables and use 'em, eh?

[ECMProgrammer]

Lyndon -

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but your response to my queries just comes across as "blah, blah, blah".

If you designed your software package (and priced it accordingly) for tuning shops, then just say that and stop. That's fair enough. I am telling you that I hang out on this and other boards enough to know that there is a demand for "consumer" level software that can tune OBDI 6.5's. You will never convince me that there is a reasonable demand for this software from "tuning shops". Could you post some shops in the states (other than Kennedy, Heath, and SS Diesel) that will custom tune/burn a PROM for me? Methinks that list will be extraordinarily short. Hence, the need to consider making this available (cost-wise) to the end-user.

Please, please, please stop with the arrogant attitude of "most people won't know what to do anyway" crap. This board and others get enough of this from Kennedy, without your throwing gas on the fire. This elitist attitude from you and JK certainly will not help sell more products. While we are on this topic (how john q public won't know how to use your product without hand-holding): Does this mean that you do not require a signed waiver of liability for every copy of this type of software sold (to tuning shops)? If one of these so-called tuning shops does manage to do something bad to a customers engine (with your software), do you cover the cost of the repairs? I am betting not!!!! So given this, how would it be any different if this software were sold to end-users?

I digress. In the end, if you want to target a very narrow market of tuning shops interested in messing with the 6.5 diesel, then so be it. I just do not understand how you could achieve a reasonable ROI for this product. Furthermore, the elitist attitude that proclaims all end-users to be too stupid and ill-equipped (paraprasing) to do their own tuning is just embarrassing for you (and Kennedy) and only serves to demonstrate that you do not understand or appreciate the public, to which you sell...

Sorry, one more quick question: If you intended to sell this to tuning shops, why did you post this announcement on this board, which is frequented by primarliy end-users (you know, the people too stupid and ill-equipped to use your products)?

The 6.5Turbo diesel editing is an add-on to our existing system. It's not a 'standalone' diesel tuning product.

You can get 6.5Diesel tuning (chips or ECU) from :

BR Powersource, Canada
Purrformance Diesel, USA
Brazels RV Performance, USA
SS Diesel, USA
DynoSources, USA
Kennedy Diesel, USA
Saskatoon Diesel, Canada
KipScott Pontiac Buick, Canada
SS Autoworks, Canada
Big Dog Performance, Canada
FC Performance Tuning, Mexico
Queens Unleashed Performance, USA
MASS Diesel, USA

And from over 50 more shops I never listed...some of which have never had a call for the 6.5TD yet still use our software daily for their tuning solutions.

The package doesn't just allow you to remap the OBD1 6.5 Turbo diesel, it covers ALL OBD1 GM product, including the 94,95 4.3 and 5.7 LT1 and LT4 (Camaro/Corvette/Cadillac/Buick/Pontiac Flash '8051 computer...)--the only other company that has a pro software package for the LT1 charges $1500 for the ability to do the LT1 alone...

We're now including a free Eprom Programmer and Eprom adapters so you don't have to desolder anything.

I hope that makes more sense and I apologize if my responses sound like gibberish.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage

[Slim shady]

I noticed that the Westers garage site looked a lot like Tuner Cat's web site.
http://www.tunercat.com/tnr_desc/ecm_sup.html#trucks

They (Tuner Cat) have been doing software tuning since early 1992. They also have a diesel tuner for the 1994 model 6.5. I sent an email regarding the software to tune the 1995 and up 6.5 diesel. Their response was, "there is not enough call for them to design a software package for their tuning program at this time".

Maybe if they receive more requests they may put something together for the 6.5 in the 1995 and up models. This is their web page link http://www.tunercat.com/tnr_desc/do_tc.html send requests and we may be able to get a single model tuner for a reasonable amount. I for one am not illiterate and can tune my own vehicle. I also can afford to repair it if I break it.

I don't ever remember anyone that knew everything about anything without having to learn first. I know most of us are capable. I don't have a Dyno, I do have a full shop with scan tools and the equipment to fix or manufacture most anything I need.

[ECMProgrammer]

I noticed that the Westers garage site looked a lot like Tuner Cat's web site.
http://www.tunercat.com/tnr_desc/ecm_sup.html#trucks

They (Tuner Cat) have been doing software tuning since early 1992. They also have a diesel tuner for the 1994 model 6.5. I sent an email regarding the software to tune the 1995 and up 6.5 diesel. Their response was, "there is not enough call for them to design a software package for their tuning program at this time".

Maybe if they receive more requests they may put something together for the 6.5 in the 1995 and up models. This is their web page link http://www.tunercat.com/tnr_desc/do_tc.html send requests and we may be able to get a single model tuner for a reasonable amount. I for one am not illiterate and can tune my own vehicle. I also can afford to repair it if I break it.

I don't ever remember anyone that knew everything about anything without having to learn first. I know most of us are capable. I don't have a Dyno, I do have a full shop with scan tools and the equipment to fix or manufacture most anything I need.

We've licensed the OBD1 product from TC, and have added features to the OBD1 templates as well as new templates. I believe if you purchase the existing support that matches ours, from TC it'll cost you around $1039.95 and you still won't have any 1994 or 1995 6.5 TD support, eprom programmer or programming adapters.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage

[ECMProgrammer]

Oh....and if anyone thinks I'm making a ton of cash off the OBD1 system, by the time I pay for the licensing, Eprom programmer and cables, adapters and the free freight we include on the deal, I'm making around $100 bucks. Why do I do it ? Yeah....with all the grief I get from the people here, I really wonder. I've got hundreds of hours of testing, building, checking templates over for errors...and for the couple of shops we've sold this to, I must be nuts.

I'm actually thinking about pulling it altogether and making it unavailable to anyone. SSDiesel and Kennedy Diesel were at least innovative enough to realize that this is a good investment.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage

[ronniejoe]

Lyndon,

Don't let a few naysayers get to you. At this point, I can't afford the package either, but I get the benefits of it through Kennedy.

There are lots of folks who want something for nothing. Folks who do not understand the development that goes into things like this. There's another forum that is chock full of those folks.

Let this roll off and don't let it get you down. I'm glad you made the product and I'm glad Kennedy has purchased it. We can all benefit in that manner.

[ECMProgrammer]

Well...

You had me right up to the price. $1299....????? WTF????

Are you trying to tell us that you can't even come close to the price of an EFI Live setup?

Best of Luck selling that Lyndon. Methinks that you ought not wasted your time (and ours)...

Ditto that on the OBDI package, as well.

Ok...lets get brutally honest here--and really make a careful comparison with respect to pricing.

Yes, you can purchase EFILive to tune two vehicles for $749.00 USD. Each additional vehicle is $99 bucks. So...by the time you tune 8 vehicles you've spent over $1300...and have to keep buying $99 licenses for each vehicle after that--or if you want to program 1998 Vortec trucks, you'd need to purchase a 'stream' license for an additional $1999USD which will give you a unlimited model support for "Vortec" trucks (which is in beta testing). So to have unlimited programming for 1998 Vortec trucks as an example, you'd have spent $2458 USD. (No 6.5TD support available).

HPT is $649 USD initially. Then you need to buy 'credits'. Two credits for each vehicle is $100, or purchase a 'model' license for 6 credits ($300). They make you license GMC and Chevrolet and models separately, so if you wanted to get support for--lets say the 2002 5.3L (JUST THAT ENGINE) with unlimited support, it will cost you $3600. So the ability to reprogram strictly the 2002 5.3L Truck will cost you $4249.00. (No Vortec support prior to 2000 and nothing for 6.5TD)

Our OBD2 Editing/Programming/Scantool package is $1299 for any year (You pick the year)...and you get full, unlimited model coverage for that year.

Let's say--you purchase 2001 as an example.

You get support for ALL 2001 3.8L V6 (presently adding more V6s) 4.3L, 4.8L, 5,0L, 5.3L, 5.7L LS1 and Vortec, 6.0L, 6.5 TD, 6.6L Duramax, 7.4L Vortec, and 8.1L for Buick, Pontiac, S10, S15, Astro, Camaro, Firebird, Corvette, C and K series 1500 through 3500, P Series, G Series through to HD models including TopKick,
H1 Hummer and 5500 Series trucks.
Any number of vehicles.
No limitations.
Add another year for $500--again, unlimited licensing for that year. (And we have vehicle support from 1996-2007).

Doesn't this seem more reasonable ?:confused:

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage

[ECMProgrammer]

Lyndon,

Don't let a few naysayers get to you. At this point, I can't afford the package either, but I get the benefits of it through Kennedy.

There are lots of folks who want something for nothing. Folks who do not understand the development that goes into things like this. There's another forum that is chock full of those folks.

Let this roll off and don't let it get you down. I'm glad you made the product and I'm glad Kennedy has purchased it. We can all benefit in that manner.

Thanks Ron...yes PLEASE support the guys who buy the programming system. Your feedback to them helps us make our package better, helps us add more features based on what YOU guys are looking for. Let's make some fast and fuel efficient vehicles out there.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage

[derekja]

Hey Lyndon, I don't think your pricing arguments are necessary in this forum. Nor do I think your arguments can prevail because the complaint is not that the pricing is unreasonable for a shop doing multiple vehicles. The complaint is that it is not affordable for an individual owner. Which is intentionally not your target audience.

I wish you had a cut down, unsupported version. Without any hardware, that was locked to a single model, or even a single VIN if you like. But that's a different product. And in the absence of that product I'm glad you offer the software to vendors to provide custom tunes to those of us who can't afford your product. So, thanks.

What your pricing arguments are primarily doing at this point is undercutting your customers justification for their individual tune pricing. $600 per tune is much less justifiable when put in the backdrop of your flat rate pricing... but that's a different argument.

[Kennedy]

Lyndon -
Please, please, please stop with the arrogant attitude of "most people won't know what to do anyway" crap. This board and others get enough of this from Kennedy, without your throwing gas on the fire. This elitist attitude from you and JK certainly will not help sell more products. While we are on this topic (how john q public won't know how to use your product without hand-holding): Does this mean that you do not require a signed waiver of liability for every copy of this type of software sold (to tuning shops)? If one of these so-called tuning shops does manage to do something bad to a customers engine (with your software), do you cover the cost of the repairs? I am betting not!!!! So given this, how would it be any different if this software were sold to end-users?

I digress. In the end, if you want to target a very narrow market of tuning shops interested in messing with the 6.5 diesel, then so be it. I just do not understand how you could achieve a reasonable ROI for this product. Furthermore, the elitist attitude that proclaims all end-users to be too stupid and ill-equipped (paraprasing) to do their own tuning is just embarrassing for you (and Kennedy) and only serves to demonstrate that you do not understand or appreciate the public, to which you sell...

Sorry, one more quick question: If you intended to sell this to tuning shops, why did you post this announcement on this board, which is frequented by primarliy end-users (you know, the people too stupid and ill-equipped to use your products)?



Sorry you feel this way. I just tell it like I see it. It's the same way with EFI Live. Thousands of Dmaxers have it, but only a small percentage actually know what to do with it. The learning curve for the Westers software for the 6.5 is much steeper yet. Facts is facts...

[ronniejoe]

Hey Lyndon, I don't think your pricing arguments are necessary in this forum. Nor do I think your arguments can prevail because the complaint is not that the pricing is unreasonable for a shop doing multiple vehicles. The complaint is that it is not affordable for an individual owner. Which is intentionally not your target audience.

This is the problem with forums like these. I've run into this mentality on more than one forum. No matter how you're attacked, you can't win by defending yourself and you can't win by ignoring people.

Derekja, his arguments are directly to the point of the criticism brought against him. He's explained his pricing strategy and his target audience. You don't like that so you rule his arguments moot. These types of arguments usually drift as well because folks jump in without fully reading all of the previous posts and make assumptions about what is meant. The argument the escalates and turns personal. I've been through it many times.

As for a cut down version with no hardware... This comment shows that you really don't know what you're asking for. Without any hardware, how are you going to read what's on a chip and how are you going to burn a different program onto a chip? This doesn't happen through the ALDL...

My suggestion to those who are attacking here... Go develop your own code then market it any way you like.

[derekja]

Derekja, his arguments are directly to the point of the criticism brought against him. He's explained his pricing strategy and his target audience. You don't like that so you rule his arguments moot. These types of arguments usually drift as well because folks jump in without fully reading all of the previous posts and make assumptions about what is meant. The argument the escalates and turns personal. I've been through it many times.

As for a cut down version with no hardware... This comment shows that you really don't know what you're asking for. Without any hardware, how are you going to read what's on a chip and how are you going to burn a different program onto a chip? This doesn't happen through the ALDL...

Ronniejoe,

My post was not meant as an attack. I am plainly not his target audience, nor (with the exception of John, and perhaps yourself) have any of the other posters been. My point was that the detailed pricing justification is really relevant only to his target audience.

As for the cut down version, I was not suggesting that it work without hardware. I was suggesting that an unsupported, hardware not provided version thrown over the fence at a low price could keep the dogs at bay while not imposing any additional burden on Lyndon's company or undercutting his primary market.

Lyndon,

My apologies if my comments came off as an attack of any sort. That was certainly not intended. I am very glad to see companies like yours putting so much time and effort into supporting performance improvements. Thank you. And I hope that you continue doing so.

[gherrell]

...My suggestion to those who are attacking here... Go develop your own code then market it any way you like.

Apparently, there are "people" here who don't seem to tolerate other individuals expressing opposing viewpoints. To the best of my knowledge, I have waged no attacks. The expression of dismay at the pricing of a product and then providing justification for that dismay is considered an attack? Wow!

RJ, you might want to thicken your skin especially since you are trying to grow a business in this 6.5 community. People are going to ask questions and some will even demand answers before they consider buying your product! However, I temper my opinion of you, since you are tied so closely to Kennedy (and therefore Wester's).

[gherrell]

Sorry you feel this way. I just tell it like I see it. It's the same way with EFI Live. Thousands of Dmaxers have it, but only a small percentage actually know what to do with it. The learning curve for the Westers software for the 6.5 is much steeper yet. Facts is facts...

That is a good point, John. But another interesting fact is that you, as well, did not "know" how to use EFI Live when you first got it. And we all have to start somewhere...

I think that this thread has convinced me the a mechanical pump is in my future (instead...)

[ronniejoe]

RJ, you might want to thicken your skin especially since you are trying to grow a business in this 6.5 community. People are going to ask questions and some will even demand answers before they consider buying your product! However, I temper my opinion of you, since you are tied so closely to Kennedy (and therefore Wester's).

My skin is plenty thick. Differing views are completely tolerable. You seem to be the one who cannot tolerate a differing view. I am in no way tied to Lyndon Wester. I do a lot of business with John Kennedy. Does that disqulify my opinion?

I simply read several posts that seemed to be very direct, heated and offensive. Mr. Wester took offense. I simply tried to bring some balance to the discussion. If your posts were not meant to be attacks, so be it. I must have misread your posts. However, I suggest that you read your posts again and see if maybe there is a tone there that you didn't intend.

I personally think that your position in this thread is unreasonable. I'm entitled to that opinion as well as you are to yours.

For years, there was very little attention paid to the 6.5 market. Now we have some folks who are stepping up to make options available. Let's not beat them down with negative complaints.

[gherrell]

My skin is plenty thick. Differing views are completely tolerable. You seem to be the one who cannot tolerate a differing view. I am in no way tied to Lyndon Wester. I do a lot of business with John Kennedy. Does that disqulify my opinion?

I simply read several posts that seemed to be very direct, heated and offensive. Mr. Wester took offense. I simply tried to bring some balance to the discussion. If your posts were not meant to be attacks, so be it. I must have misread your posts. However, I suggest that you read your posts again and see if maybe there is a tone there that you didn't intend.

I personally think that your position in this thread is unreasonable. I'm entitled to that opinion as well as you are to yours.

For years, there was very little attention paid to the 6.5 market. Now we have some folks who are stepping up to make options available. Let's not beat them down with negative complaints.

If no one ever told Lyndon that his products were too expensive for the end-user to purchase, then he may never know that this market (niche) even existed. I am making the case for either lowering the price on this product (which he claims is not possible) or possibly offering (in the future) a one-off license type architecture for 6.5 end-users.

You may take my veracity for defending my positions as being gruff or even "offensive". That is YOUR perogative (goes back to the thick skin issue).

Since these products for the 6.5 are "new" does that mean we should give them a pass, carte blanche? It's probably a good thing that the people here didn't subscribe to your opinion when the SOL-D first appeared. I believe that was called "cautious optimism"...

[Kennedy]

That is a good point, John. But another interesting fact is that you, as well, did not "know" how to use EFI Live when you first got it. And we all have to start somewhere...

I think that this thread has convinced me the a mechanical pump is in my future (instead...)

The difference is that I have a bit of a background and working knowledge of how these things run. What's safe and not safe, AND the ability to dyno test my alterations.

I put a lot of customers right back on the fence thinking about their plans. I'm not a "closer" or a "pressure salesman" (unless you believe A1 :rolleyes: ) I just tell it like it is and try to steer somewhat where I think a customer needs to go. Give them the information needed and let them make up their own minds. In the case of this software I feel the learning curve will go well beyond even many workshops.


At least from my point of view, my attitude is more of a realist than eliteist...

[ronniejoe]

You may take my veracity for defending my positions as being gruff or even "offensive". That is YOUR perogative (goes back to the thick skin issue).

It's your perogative to think that I need thicker skin. Frankly, I'm emotionally detached from this, just making observations and trying to keep things even keel. I really don't care what you think of me. I can't control that. I just try to give people honest opinions, good information and better than average advice.

You came on with a very strong, very negative opinion of this product and the business man selling it. I simply offered the other side and tried to encourage to object of you scorn to not give up. You then said that differing views were not tolerated here (implying that I didn't tolerate your view) when actually, you were the one who was intolerant of my "differing view".

The person that you originally attacked took offense at your words, so they may be rightly judged offensive (at least to him).

What good does all of this do? Probably not much. But, it was worth a shot.

[ECMProgrammer]

Ok...This is the new pricing schedule for Westers Garage' OBD2 6.5 Tuning software package. First announcement, and it's not on our website yet.

1. Single Model/User system $699.00 (6.5TD or Duramax)
Includes Hardware (Serial Interface/Cables) and software for Individual User.
Edit and reflash your 6.5TD (1996-2003). Read, Edit and Reflash your Duramax (2001-2006)
This package is licensed to a model year or single user system, based on software number or individuals' vehicle year.

2. Single YEAR System $1299
Includes Hardware (Serial Interface/Cables) and software covering a single model year -- your year choice. All vehicle coverage for a given model year.
Includes 4.3, 4.8, 5.0, 5.7, 6.0, 6.5, 6.6, 7.4 and 8.1L Combinations.

3. Add-On YEAR packages are $500.00 Any year--all models.

Any questions--please email us directly (ecmprogrammer@eidnet.org) as I don't have time to hang out here as often as I'd like.

We're presently working on an OBD1 package price adjustment for single model OBD1 structures, too...and pricing will be annouced before the weekend.

Lyndon
Westers Garage
1-888-WESTER-1

[Slim shady]

Lyndon

I think your offer is good. I sent Tuner Cat an email and they told me they wouldn't take the time to put together a program for the 6.5. I am glad you did. I think you are one smart guy, because there is a market for it.

In your defense, you have a good price since you are including the prom reader/flash tool and software to read and convert the hex program and then re flash it to the prom with the right start and stop point. You must have spent some time making the definition file for this. I don't think most people understand what you went through to make the 6.5 definition file.

Can't let others get you down, if you care what everyone else thinks you won't make it. Keep on hacking: I know it is in your blood.

[AndyL]

1. Single Model/User system $699.00 (6.5TD or Duramax)
Includes Hardware (Serial Interface/Cables) and software for Individual User.
Edit and reflash your 6.5TD (1996-2003).

Dangit, Lyndon, you've made it affordable! Now I have to come up with $699 :D

[Slim shady]

If he comes up with a OBD 1 tuner for the 1995, I am out some money also.

[ECMProgrammer]

If he comes up with a OBD 1 tuner for the 1995, I am out some money also.

Good news.

OBD1 Tuner for the 6.5 is still a reality...with the ability to order just want you need. If you just want 6.5TD support--we need to know your 4 letter broadcast code or BCC), we're setting the price to $495.00USD for a single user basic system. This system will not have the same features as the professional OBD1 system ($1299), but will provide full support for the 1994-1995 6.5Turbo diesels.
If you need additional templates for other 6.5 TD Eproms, the templates will be $79.95 each. (There are presently 6 required editing templates).
Many of you will only need the one required template for your application.

This kit will include the following:

1. Software for the OBD1Editor and Eprom Programmer on CD.
2. Emailed template based on your Eprom broadcast code.
3. Eprom Programmer and operating instructions.
4. Eprom adapter (for reading your eprom without desoldering).
5. Instructions for getting the most out of your 6.5 Turbo Diesel.
6. EPROM Eraser**.

**Right now, we're looking for a quality solution for an eprom eraser, and should have these in stock for next week...there's also a 6.5 Turbo diesel software scanner available from a vendor right here on the Diesel Page, which we recommend you purchase for the best editing results.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage

[JohnC]

Good news.

OBD1 Tuner for the 6.5 is still a reality...... we're setting the price to $495.00USD for a single user basic system.

Guys, if this doesn't make you happy, nothing will! Now, if only it had come out 5 (or 10) years ago... :(

[rjwest]

Great News,
Too bad i'm a day late and a dollar short,
No, a week early and not a dollar short,
My black beauty ( K3500 ) is gone,
I am now 6.5L less....

Worse than that, Now better engines are available,,,,

I'm looking again!!!!!!!

[Slim shady]

Good news.

OBD1 Tuner for the 6.5 is still a reality...with the ability to order just want you need. If you just want 6.5TD support--we need to know your 4 letter broadcast code or BCC), we're setting the price to $495.00USD for a single user basic system. This system will not have the same features as the professional OBD1 system ($1299), but will provide full support for the 1994-1995 6.5Turbo diesels.
If you need additional templates for other 6.5 TD Eproms, the templates will be $79.95 each. (There are presently 6 required editing templates).
Many of you will only need the one required template for your application.

This kit will include the following:

1. Software for the OBD1Editor and Eprom Programmer on CD.
2. Emailed template based on your Eprom broadcast code.
3. Eprom Programmer and operating instructions.
4. Eprom adapter (for reading your eprom without desoldering).
5. Instructions for getting the most out of your 6.5 Turbo Diesel.
6. EPROM Eraser**.

**Right now, we're looking for a quality solution for an eprom eraser, and should have these in stock for next week...there's also a 6.5 Turbo diesel software scanner available from a vendor right here on the Diesel Page, which we recommend you purchase for the best editing results.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage


Lyndon

The eprom on the OBD1 systems is removable (isn't it). Will the adapter allow the tuning to be done in real time while the vehicle is running? Or is this a function of the full featured package.

You can count me in. I like tinkering in forbidden territory, hope the EPA guys are not reading this.

[JoeyD]

Glad to see Lyndon offering this for us 6.5 guys. Price is very good as well.
Keep up the good work

[ECMProgrammer]

Lyndon

The eprom on the OBD1 systems is removable (isn't it). Will the adapter allow the tuning to be done in real time while the vehicle is running? Or is this a function of the full featured package.

You can count me in. I like tinkering in forbidden territory, hope the EPA guys are not reading this.

We'll have the realtime option in a couple weeks (maybe even next week) for the 6.5 OBD1 system...so you'll be able to use the RTOBD1 (It's not on our website yet), and will be compatible with the Romulator unit available from Transtronics.
You WILL need a special socket to set up the realtime communication because of the unique design of the EPROM for the OBD1 ECM, which we should have built prior to the release of the realtime tuning. We'll be working on the package price for this (software, hardware required). TO make this work, you must purchase the I-PKTROM2 Romulator with 27-512 support.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
1-888-WESTER-1

[Slim shady]

NOW you DO have my attention. I will be calling you about this package. Glad to see the hookup between you and TC. I figured something good may come out of this thread.

The TC guys are pretty straight to deal with and they have a lot of background.
Expect a call regarding the real time tune program.

[hockeyGTP]

This is going to help the community as a whole.

[ECMProgrammer]

Software prices all adjusted. Note included hardware with software packages.

OBD1-RT Realtime for OBD1 6.5TD is ready to go, folks. I finalized the last template yesterday, including support for the non-turbo 6.5TD offered in the '94 and '95 trucks.

Adapters for the Romulator to 6.5TD ECM will be in next week, and I'm finalizing a price on UV erasers with a foreign supplier--so things are rolling along.

Thanks for your support.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage
1-888-WESTER-1

[ECMProgrammer]

Everthing is done...ready to ship.

New Adapters for 27C512's in stock--so you can decide whether or not to erase your factory memcal, and just keep extra chips on hand. These adapters double as the ROMULATOR interface for realtime tuning.

New EPROM Erasers in stock--110V units, so you don't need to buy batteries.

The OEM memcal fits inside the drawer perfectly--so you don't have to desolder or solder anything.

EPROM programmer software and all instructions are on the OBD1 Software disc...and will include basic tuning information. Custom tuning can be done via email if you prefer to get help that way.

For scanning software, if you don't have a Tech1--get GMTDScan Tech.

Lyndon:)
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage
1-888-WESTER-1

[Slim shady]

Thanks Lyndon.

Nice setup. Looks like I am spending some money!!!