Cheap Source for Wastegate Actuator ?

[sailun]

Anyone know a good, cheap, source for a wastegate actuator ? Mine stopped working last week.

I had already ordered a new vac solenoid, as that had been failing intermittantly, for months.
But, squirting, jiggling, and shaking didn't fix it this time.

So, parts came in on Fri, I started to replace the vac solenoid, and the vac lines just crumbled. So order lines from dealer, $10, install the next day.

Out for the test drive, no whistle, no power, plenty of smoke. Hmmmm.....

Vac pump was replaced last summer, so my whole vacuum system is new.

Bot a vacuum tester, I have 25+" from pump at idle and 2000 rpm.
I have 15+" at wastegate actuator, at idle.

But WA arm flops up and down with no resistance.

DEALER WANTS THREE HUNDRED SEVENTY EIGHT dollars for the part.
I don't think so.

I don't want to buy a turbomaster, cuz then I have to buy guages, to set it properly.

By the way, the WA worked fine for 161k miles, until I squirted some stuff in the vacuum line to "clean and lube it". Probably ate up the seals, diaphragm, or toilet float thats inside.

On the happy side, the new KD 3.5" exhaust is in, and sounds great. All lubes are now synthetic, and put in new links from sway bar to lower control arms. The front end feels like new, again. Great results for $26, at NAPA.

[dieseldummy]

I've got a good used unit with nearly no miles on it. PM me if you would like it.

[a5150nut]

Found it on GM PartsDirect, 215.60. Not much better, got to be something out there.

[redbird2]

I have one that came off a rebuild turbo you can have you pay shipping. Let me know

[john8662]

I've got one that will fit GM-5 or GM-8 turbo, just like what these other fine fellas are offering you.

For a '97 6.5, it'll be either the GM-5 or GM-8 turbo (likely the -8).

J

[sailun]

Wow, thanks for all the offers.

Just so we're all on the same page, here's a pic.

[john8662]

Yes, that's the one I was referring to.

[sailun]

Thanks, John, I'll take it.

Please check your mailbox.

Kevin

[sailun]

Thanks for the offers, guys. They are truly appreciated.

Only reason I'm taking John's, is cuz he verified right part first.

[a5150nut]

Thanks for the offers, guys. They are truly appreciated.

Only reason I'm taking John's, is cuz he verified right part first.

His comes wiht that wire wrapped arround it too????????? :)

[derekja]

Hey, here's a good place to ask this question. Mine came wired shut on my 1998 K3500. None of the service manuals I have offer any testing procedure for this part. When I unwire it, the hinge slowly lowers to what I presume is the open position, there is a reasonably small amount of resistance required to raise the hinge into the closed position and when released it slowly opens again. I would not describe it as a "flop up and down" like sailun's.

Is this expected behavior? Would it have been wired up just to try and get all the boost the previous owner could? It was showing really low boost (4 psi or so) but after tightening hose clamps and such came back up to about 10.

I've currently got the engine almost ready to lift out for a rebuild, so I guess I'm most interested in engine-stopped tests until some time in the hopefully not too distant future when I put it all back together again.

Thanks!

[sailun]

The untrained eye might not discern this, but that's a veeeeery special, kustom-tuned, harmonically-balanced, acoustically-perfect, hi-temp resistant, superconducting boost enabler, developed using highly rigorous scientific methodology, under extremely dirty conditions, in the discomfort of my cold garage.

I will add this to the collection of get-me-homes that every 6.5 enthusiast should carry at all times.

In fact, I'm thinking of scheduling a production run of 10,000 units, and will offer them at the introductory price of 39.95, + S&H. If GM can sell the real deal for 212, or 378, then I think 39.95 is quite reasonable.

Guaranteed to never wear out, for the life of the vehicle (there's a sure bet, eh ?) and also guaranteed to set code P0236.

[sailun]

Derekja, sounds to me like yours is behaving normally.

If you apply suction-vacuum to the nipple on top, and the arm lifts up and holds, then I believe the WA is working correctly.

[a5150nut]

I will add this to the collection of get-me-homes that every 6.5 enthusiast should carry at all times.
.

Right there between the bailin wire, duct tape, and 15in Cresent. ;)

[JohnC]

The wastegate controller is easy to test. It must move freely and it must not leak vaccum.

Several years back I was hauling horses from Massachusetts to Upstate NY. As I was crossing the mountains (hills to you westerners) of western Mass, the boost suddenly dropped from about 10 psi to about 4 psi. I later determined the vacuum pump had quit. I developed the "Turbobastard Boost Controller" that afternoon. It is easily adjustable using common pliers to twist or untwist the baling wire... I later offered it to Kennedy on an exclusive basis, but, for some reason, he didn't seem too interested. I haven't pursued marketing it any further.

Turbobastard is a trademark of Cooper Enterprises, patent pending...

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/turbo_bastard.jpg

[john8662]

Cool Turbobastard!

I helped a local fella upgrade from his turbobastard on his '93 CC dually 6.5 pickup when swapping out turbos from a GM-3 to a GM-4 to a turbomaster I had.

But, I must add, it did work!

J

[Scooby]

I am surprised no one mentioned Mr Heath's turbomaster in this article. It is truely the simplest way to control boost, and is a little fancier than the spring and bailing wire pictured in a previous post, and works on the same principle. No vacuum needed !!!

[sailun]

Well, Scooby,

I'm just trying to make the best use of the vacuum system I have. Vac pump was replaced last summer ($220+), new vac lines and solenoid last week ($40+)

Plus I was of the understanding that I needed to buy guages to set it properly.


That said, I already DID bookmark the Turbomaster page into my favorites, last week, just in case I couldn't find a reasonable replacement.

Fortunately, I received three quick offers, from some good people, here.

If any part of this system ever fails again, I will be buying a Turbomaster.

I take it yours has worked out well ? Any advice ?

[sailun]

Thanks to John8662.

Feels good to hear the real whistle again.

For future knowledge, they must have changed the wastegate lever design between whatever year that turbo came off, and my 97.

The pressed-in stud on the WA rod, which connects to the Wastegate lever with a Jesus-clip, is mounted facing towards the fender on mine, while John's was mounted facing the engine. So I had to grind off the peen, twist it out, and nut and bolt it together.

'Course I dropped the washers and nut, so the trusty wire holds the rod to the lever !

Off to the hardware store tomorrow.

[dieseldummy]

That rod will spin inside the canister... No need for cuting and such.

[sailun]

Negative, DD. I tried spinning the rod, but it sure felt VERY resistant to turning, both on my old WA, and on John's.

I'm big enough to break things when I don't want to, and this one didn't feel very encouraging.

She works just fine now, after a trip to the hardware store.

I think I'll cut the old one open, see what's in there, maybe post some pix, if I remember.

[sailun]

A small portion of the diaphragm pulled away from the crimp, sawzall blade pointing to it.

[sailun]

I just finished disecting the failed WA.

I'm no engineer, or mechanic, so correct me on anything I get wrong here.

Without stepping on any toes...............

Don't try to rotate the rod on the wastegate actuator. The diaphragm is very flimsy, and pulls out of the crimp with scary little effort. At least on my 10-year old, 161k unit.

Even if you don't pull the diaphragm out, you don't want any leakage around the rod and pressed washers where it passes thru the Diaphragm.

If the rod rotates easily, then it's probly not very good at holding a vacuum.

On the other hand, do we need to be 100% efficient, here ? I'm thinking yes we do. The difference between a small leak, and INOP, is pretty small. In fact, if the hole is as big as the vac line ID (pretty skinny), thats 100% loss. I'm guessing that 10% to 25% loss would be INOP.

Diaphragm appears to be made of some kind of fabric and rubber/latex/Hypalon laminate.

There is no return spring, the diaphragm just returns to it's memory/manufactured position.

I, personally, would not spray anything into the hose nipple, unless it were some kind of non-petroleum based rubber care product, maybe a silicone-based product ?

And what effect would these products have when they get sucked back into the wastegate solenoid, or plastic vac lines ? Good/bad ? Does lubing the solenoid help, or gunk things up ?

I'm thinking a little silicone spray on the rod and rubber gasket at the bottom of the can would be the safest approach. Or some dry graphite lube.

Any recomendations, or clarifications ?

By the way, I see no technology here that would make this part cost any more than $1, never mind $212 or $378.

It's time to buy or make a Turbomaster, and throw it in the glovebox.

[john8662]

Glad the w/a arrived.

Bummer that the alignment was different.

Good that you can engineer it differently.

The W/A was off a '96 turbo GM5, The GM5 and GM8 are almost identical turbo's. The one thing that changed is the bushing in the downpipe for the GM8, so it's fitting that they may have changed the w/a as well, slightly.

Glad that the whistle is back. Also glad that you replaced a faulty part and fixed the boost problem. I hate changing parts that may be faulty to later find they were not.

Turbomaster is good, runs a little higher boost at cruise than the stock w/a on vacuum does. Some pro and con to both setups in my view.

J

[sailun]

I only replaced bad parts, cuz the good people here teach me how to diagnose problems.

Any idea why Heath says Turbomaster is "not recommended for stock programming" ?

IYO, what are any drawbacks to the TM ?

[JohnC]

There is no return spring, the diaphragm just returns to it's memory/manufactured position.

Vacuum pulls the wastegate shut. Exhaust pressure pushes it open. No spring required.

[sailun]

Thanks, John.

I was theorising that, depending on how hard the crimping was set on the day any given WA was manufactured, that the diaphragm could either last forever, or fail pretty quickly.

I have to give credit to GM here, it lasted a fairly long time, considering where it lives, what it does, and the diaphragm material.


Any ideas on why TM not rec'd for stock programming ?

Any downside to TM ?

[john8662]

I can't think of why the TM wouldn't be suited for stock programming. It was designed with stock trucks in mind, to repair wastegate issues on these turbos.

TM?

Pro's: Tuneable boost levels, but must be used in conjunction with a boost fooler (on map) for levels above 9psi. Range goes up to around 15psi (my current setting). More boost at cruising speeds.

Con's: More boost under cruising speeds. The factory w/a was controlled via the solenoid and under pulses to maintain a certain amount of pressure on the w/g arm. The result of the factory setup is bleeding off exhaust volume gradually in a controlled manner. The TM mainly holds the w/g arm closed until a certain pressure to overcome the spring mechanism has been reached. Why is this a con in my opinion? It's not on a "good" turbo, but on the GM-X series turbos, the exhaust turbine wheel and housing is so small, it's got to be some benefit to bypass the houing via wastegate, alleviate backpressure some. Just a theory though...


Well, I compared the GM-5 wastegate actuator to the GM8 last night. Sure enough, you're certainly right, they're rotated 180 degrees (the stem). I only had 2 GM-5 actuators on hand at the time. I now have the GM8 one on the shelf after removing it from the turbo that's in service currently for the TM and KD Boost fooler.

J

[DaveNY]

Ive had the TM on for about 35000 mi. I am stock with a remote PMD and the truck is has become very reliable. Boost goes to about 9 and my EGT rarely sees 800' post turbo. Once in a blue moon while cruising (72 mph) according to AE scantool the truck kicks out a code for the boost circuit. Must get mixed signals or something? (but never defuels or cause a problem.)
Dave
PS. Recommend setting TM with boost gauge hooked up, printed instructions too conservative in regards to stock settings