View Full Version : Cdr Valve Question
I am at a loss as how this gadget is suppose to work. I found way to much oil in the intake and pulled the cdr valve of the cover , and found it was clean but wide open .
went to the dealer and looked at a new one and that one was wide open to, so i left it there [they wanted $ 95,-CND for it "ooops" ]
So how is it suppose to hold the oil back if there is no restriction or seperator in there?
I know there was some talk about these things a few posts back and some people had come up with some changes, but i did not realy get the drift on how it was done.
My engine has over 300 k on it and started poorly lately in -10 c ,so I took the injecters out { 4 tested good and 4 where shot } I did also a compression test , I got 300 psi on all eight with a stone cold engine that had been sitting for a few days. cranking was not that fast either, so i asume i got fair compression.
But i like to run this thing on diesel and leave the oil where it belongs.
any sugestions are apriciated.
DmaxMaverick
02-19-2007, 20:24
The CDR doesn't prevent oil from being passed into the intake. It will reduce intake vacuum to the crankcase (valve cover), preventing the vaccum from pulling too much oil vapor. If you have a lot of blowby, the vacuum doesn't increase as much, so the CDR isn't as effective. A plugged (or inferior) air filter is as likely a suspect.
The compression test should be done at operating tempurature. A cold test is worthless. Also, mediocre compression is no indicator of minimal blowby. Wet rings seal very well, even with a lot of blowby. This is why a compression test is better used as a baseline for balance, and not necessarily a condition of compression during a combustion cycle.
This still did not answer my question about the working of the CDR.
the filter has seen only 300 km and is as good as new.
It ain't that easy to do a comp test on a hot engine, it works not to bad on a exposed engine, but before one has all the stuff removed to do the test in these cramped engine bay's the engine is likely to be cold again and I will be full of blisters.
At least I got a general indication of across the board wellnes of the rings and valves, and I did NOT give the pistons a shot of oil either.
So what is wrong with this aproach.
DmaxMaverick
02-19-2007, 22:14
I didn't say it was easy. Shut down the hot engine, pull all the glow plugs, and go after it. If you aren't able to do it w/o blistering your hands, you need a tool upgrade. I've done it dozens of times. I've burned myself on several ocasions, but not because that's the way it is. Like I said, a cold engine compression test is worthless. Get it up to tempurature and your numbers will likely be very different. Your results may not reflect that, but that doesn't mean anything. You may get lucky. If you are getting a lot of oil in your intake, it has to be coming from somewhere. Most often, the CDR is replaced, and there is no change or appreciable benefit. They fail, but not as often as some would lead you to believe. They can appear fine and be bad, as well. If you're not sure, replace it.
The CDR is a valve. As vacuum increases at the valve, it closes. If you have a lot of blowby, there is more airflow, but less relative vacuum. Less vacuum means later (or non) closing of the CDR, and increased oil vapor passage. It does not stop oil vapor. It interupts the vacuum that pulls oil vapor into the intake.
bcbigfoot
02-19-2007, 23:05
The CDR has a diaphram inside that is held open by a light spring. On the backside of the CDR is a small vent hole, put your lips over the hole and blow, Stick your finger over the hole real fast, then turn the CDR around, the valve should be closed if not you may have a hole in the diaphram. Don't use compressed air it may rupture the diaphram.
Ok I get the drift.
Cutting corners does'nt seem to do it , I actually knew that, As i observe the engine bay's in trucks and cars nowaday's I would say there aint no room in Canada.
I figured I have the squirts out and comp test trough these holes.
I change the nozzles for new ones [ yes I have a injector tester and have done plenty] button everything back up, warm her up and comp test again trough the glowers, and see what the diff is .
By the way I have no manual , what pressure do them nozzles take, the old ones hover around 2000 psi. These are out a 95 6.5 td.
DA BIG ONE
02-20-2007, 06:22
RAYCOR has bypass filter/canisters that are plumbed into vent circuit but their listing refers to cfm flow of vent. So, any of you know how much CFM flow I would be looking for if I were to retro fit on of these devices, or?
http://www.maesco.com/products/racor/r_ccv_intro/r_ccv_intro.html
http://www.parker.com/racor/news_articles/expandfilterline.htm
This gadget appears to be the answer to replace the CDR valve in keeping the oil out of the intake of these 6.5 's
what I can gather from the website is that the smallest one will be enough for up to 350 hp.
I send a email requesting price from the company, probably it won't be cheap.
LanduytG
02-20-2007, 19:50
All you need to do is put a vacuum gauge on the dip stick tube. If it maintains about 4" of water vacuum the CRD is working fine. All it does is hook to the inlet side of the turbo and the turbo then pulls a slight vacuum on the crank case. The CRD regulats that vacuum.
Greg
Ccv 4500 Is Suggesed Over The Phone By Parker For Our Engine Unless Built To More Than 350 Hp Or So. They Make A Smaller One For Cars But It Actually Costs More. Found One In Edmonton For $398.91 Cnd.
7.16inmounting Bracket X 5.60in Depth X 9.25 Hieght
Also Need 2.25 In Of Clearence To Change The Filter.
Probably Want To Send The Oil Drain Back To The Crank Case Some Where But Could Probably Just Catch It In A Drain Can And Pour It Out When Its Full.
Looks Like Threaded 1 Ntp Inlet And Outlets
LanduytG
02-21-2007, 04:45
Ccv 4500 Is Suggesed Over The Phone By Parker For Our Engine Unless Built To More Than 350 Hp Or So. They Make A Smaller One For Cars But It Actually Costs More. Found One In Edmonton For $398.91 Cnd.
7.16inmounting Bracket X 5.60in Depth X 9.25 Hieght
Also Need 2.25 In Of Clearence To Change The Filter.
Probably Want To Send The Oil Drain Back To The Crank Case Some Where But Could Probably Just Catch It In A Drain Can And Pour It Out When Its Full.
Looks Like Threaded 1 Ntp Inlet And Outlets
Because of all the moisture you will get I would not drain it back to the crankcase.
Greg
okay you can tell the last post byme was at 1:00 am the 398 price was for the ccv 4500 not for the smaller one.
the 2.25 in you need is below the canestert to drop it for a filter change. no idea what filters cost to replace.
there has been a suggestion by parcker to me over the phone that flter change would be fairly rare on our usage.
the rule that come with this do say to run the drain back to the crank. no mention of if it would contain water
inlet out let look like 1in. npt
You drive a vehicle with a Diesel engine - Diesel engines burn Diesel fuel, a light oil - what's the problem with burning the light oil vapors out of the crankcase? :confused:
With some of the older engined there is a fair bit of vapour and not all of it is light. I get a heavy black build u in the air intake.
That sounds like EGR and possibly leaking EGR - Diesel engine oil should be dark, but EGR contributes the black.
inlet out let look like 1in. npt
Actually rules say they are 1-3/16-12 SAE. Also if you order one of these decide which way it will mount there is a L to R flow model and a R to L flow choice to make.
And no EGR has be blinded off for a few years.
The black is soot. More frequent oil changes minimises ths but never gets rid of it. thus looking at by pass oil filtration for the beast when I put in the replacment engine later this year.
Due to packaging everything in my swap, I just have my CDR running to its own filter. I just ran a 1" line from the CDR to a small breather-filter and have it mounted down on the frame behind the core support. If it starts to drip, then I'll work up some type of separator to catch the oil. Things look clear so far - the tube is clear and I'm not seeing any oil residue in it yet.
DA BIG ONE
02-26-2007, 07:57
You drive a vehicle with a Diesel engine - Diesel engines burn Diesel fuel, a light oil - what's the problem with burning the light oil vapors out of the crankcase? :confused:
Those of us w/after coolers also know as intercoolers (IC) get oil build up in cooler reducing coolers efficiency........On another note IC hoses made of rubber fail when oil soaked.
Acorrding to the literaturethat comes from parker and a few other sources this cc vzpour is also a major contributer to exhaust emission. No way for me to know if that is true or not.
Those of us w/after coolers also know as intercoolers (IC) get oil build up in cooler reducing coolers efficiency........On another note IC hoses made of rubber fail when oil soaked.
Don't know much about intercoolers or their plumbing, but, couldn't you plumb the CDR to a point after the IC,, like just before the intake manifold ?
Same effect and functionality ?
Just curious.
If you truly do have an AFTER-cooler, then you must also have multiple stages of compressors, with an 'intercooler' between each stage, and I could see where CDR effluent would be a really big problem in that system.
The popularly phrased 'intercooler' was at one time called an 'inter-stage cooler', and not because it was employed on a stage coach - the 'cooler placed after the last stage of compression was then called the 'after-cooler'
However, the 'cooler employed in automotive and industrial engine service was designated as charge-air cooler, to reduce the hi-temp super-charged or turbo-charged air being force-fed to the engine.
Note - there will be a test, later.........................
Sailun, the turbo compressor inlet develops a small vacuum which is used thru the CDR to pull vapors out of the engine.
The output of the compressor thru the c\a cooler is hi-pressure air, relatively speaking, which would blow back into the crankcase - just the opposite of what is required.
Doh ! Guess I shoulda looked at the plumbing before I spoke.
DA BIG ONE
02-27-2007, 00:08
If you truly do have an AFTER-cooler, then you must also have multiple stages of compressors, with an 'intercooler' between each stage, and I could see where CDR effluent would be a really big problem in that system.
Note - there will be a test, later.........................
There goes my "sometimers" again, thanks for the correction.....
NBD, DBO - was just having some fun with words............;)
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