the new used truck nightmare continues

[derekja]

Oh man, I'm so bummed right now that it's not funny.

The shop has had my new 1998 chevy 3500 for a couple of weeks. I took it there right after getting it.

I made another post about this in the 3500 forum, but a new problem has come up.

They told me that they couldn't diagnose a boost problem until they fixed the cooling leak. Good enough. I was going to let them have that part anyway. They called me today and told me that with the coolant leak fixed they got the boost up to 10 psi, but that when the engine got up to temperature that it developed really high compression and that that was a sign of internal engine problems. [edit: I was reading about this and baffled as to what would cause internal engine compression to go up like that... phoned back and the mechanic working on it had gone home, but his co-worker told me that they hadn't done a compression test, but just tested the cooling system and saw it going up over 15psi, so he was talking cooling system pressure... maybe just a head gasket then?]

He has advised me to sell the truck. That it's too high mileage (215,000) to even think about doing a head gasket or anything on it, and that a new engine is going to be $10k or more before I get all done with it.

The seller denies that there is anything wrong with the engine, says it's always been dependable. Further, that he and his uncle put a new crate engine into another one of their trucks for $2500.

Is it possible that the shop blew the thing? It wasn't showing any problems when I drove it up there, just the low boost and coolant leak (which I kept topped up) it didn't overheat and had plenty of power. I guess I tell that when I pick it up, depending on whether it drives the same.

I don't think my conscience will let me put it on craigslist without letting on to what the shop told me, but what can I sell it for if I do that? I stand to lose my shirt on this.

Does anyone have options that I should think about? I think I'm gonna go cry in my beer for a while now...

[trbankii]

I'd say that $10K would be high - but that is likely what a dealer would charge to do it... Doing it yourself is going to be nowhere near that. First thing to do would be to see what is actually wrong. Don't see why high mileage would keep you from doing head gaskets if that was all it needed...

Hard to say how bad it is or what happened without opening it up and taking a look...

Might want to put your location up so that you could possibly connect with someone close by who could give you an "experienced" opinion on it.

[derekja]

good thought on the location, thanks. I added that to my profile. I'd love some local experience around Seattle. It's pretty clear that the fellow I took the truck to is anything but a fan of the 6.5TD...

If it really does need it I'm thinking about doing the r&r myself, although I'm pretty scared of undertaking something that extensive and would have to buy some tools.

[65TD]

Check for a blown head gasket pressurizing the coolant system...

Remove the belt, remove the thermostat housing and thermostat(s), with coolant / water up to the top of the thermostat housing run the engine and check for air bubbles.

If you have air bubbles change the head gaskets.

If nothing else has been done change the timing chain set, belt tensioner, check the pulleys and harmonic balancer, check the lift pump. Change glow plugs and injectors.

[arveetek]

If you are unable or unwilling to do the work yourself, you need to find a new shop. That shop obviously just doesn't want to mess with it, and is trying to get you out of their shop. I'd just pay him for the work he's done, say thank you, and get the heck out of there!

Casey

[gmctd]

You can determine which head is the culprit by removing the t-stat manifold - run the engine, and the head with bubbles is the leaker.

No matter - replace both headgaskets, or you'll soon be doing it again

Do the timing chainset and new waterpump while you're at it.

[rustyk]

Sounds like a head gasket - I had the same problem with the original 6.5L TD in my motorhome. Mine also had four lightly scored cylinders, so I opted for an AMG/Peninsular 6.5L TD instead of a rebuild.

[Robyn]

Well now
I am seing some very good advice here.

We bought our 94 Burb with 230k showing on the clock and had issues at about 240K

Ours blew the gasket on the # 2 cylinder into the water jacket and made a big mess.
I yanked the engine out and cleaned it up and went through it.

If your new found little creature is a nice truck I would do as has been mentioned.

Get it home and out of the clutches of the empire.

Run the engine as has been described to find out which head is leaking.

yank the engine out completely.

Now this sounds like a daunting task but is actually fairly simple.

Systematically tear the little beast apart and give it some love and atention.

I would figure on a good clean up and then get replace the rings, bearings, lifters (be sure cam lobes are smooth and in good shape.
Replace the oil pump and timing chain. (generally on these the sprockets are fine)
Replace the rocker arm guide buttons too. (Plastic goodies in the center of each rocker)

Order a new set of heads from Clear water in Florida ($670 for the pair)
Have the IP and the injectors tested.

If the block shows any erosion around the top of the cylinders where the gasket fire ring sits get it decked. (No More than .010")

Stuff the little sucker back together with new head bolts and some new seals and gaskets and your little diesel rat willbe good to go for a buttload more miles and all this will not cost you very much at all.

I did the rebuild on our Burb and the cost was about $1800.

The truck is well worth the time and $$$$ and this is far better than spending $50K on a new truck me thinks.

Having a shop do it is out of the question unless you have money to burn.
There are many of us here that will gladly help you through some of the issues you may run into.

If you need more personal help I can be reached on my cell phone for a live conference and will do so gladly, Just ask ;0)

A neighbor of mine was out of town and their Burb diesel went south and his wife took the car to the GM shop. $11200 later it had a fresh engine in it and they are still having issues with it almost a yeat later.

Do it yourself and save the grief.

Hint--- many good deals on parts can be had at Ebay and craigs list.
Shop smart and know what stuff costs first and then go shopping.

I just bought two sets of pistons for 6.2 with rings for $350 the suckers sell whole sale here for about $68 each on the pistons and the rings are about $170 a set depending on grade.

I really did not need both sets but what I dont use will make good trading stock or saleable item later.

Hope this helps

You can PM me if you wish to chat at length or if you want my cell number to call me.

Missy Robyn

[Robyn]

Just post script

If you have never removed an engine from a truck its really no big deal.
Take your time. and mark stuff so you can get it back where it goes.
A supply of coffee cans and sandwich bags and a black felt pen marker to write on the bags with.
Make a little journal in a notebook if need be also.

The wiring on the engine is pretty much a no brainer as the plugs are all proprietary and will not swap with others.

The engine basically has 4 large plugs at the back (firewall) that plug into the main chassis harness.

An engine lift can be rented for a small fee from the rental yard to get the sucker out.
These engines are heavy so dont rent the little tiny one.

Remove the radiator and shroud first to get some room to work.

The exhaust is easy.
One band clamp at the turbo and then the cross over pipe.

6 bolts on the converter under the cover and thats loose.
6 bolts on the bell housing.
Remove the starter while your down there
Font motor mounts two bolts
Remove the turbo and exhaust manifolds to fee up more room.

It took me from about 9am untill about 6pm to get the engine out of our Burb.
Working by myself.

Once out be careful with the High pressure fuel lines (Dont bend)

mark the pairs and keep them that way. Pass side is cyls 2&4 in a pair and 6&8 in a pair

The drivers side is 1&3 and 5&7

The lines have clamps that keep them together so just wrap some good duct tape around a clean area and mark them as such.

Make a map of the back of the pump where the lines all go and store that map where you wont lose it.

Once the lines are off cap off or otherwise protect the fittings from dirt and do the same for the injectors.

We are well on our way to having it apart already.

OH BTW a good little engine stand with 4 wheels(NOT 3) would be in order.


Yesssssssssssssss and heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere we go

RC

[derekja]

oh no, really? I can't just do the heads while it's sitting in the truck?

If I start there and find the deck is bad, is it possible to hoist the engine out with the heads off or is the risk of getting stuff in there or banging an interior surface or something too great that way?

I guess it would be a lot easier to get at everything with the engine out of the truck. ugh, that's scary.

I did get it back home on Saturday. I have a compression tester on the way so that I can do that check to have reference numbers when I put it back together. I ordered a carcode cable to check if other codes I should know about are up. Then when that is done I figure I'll start ripping into it on Thursday.

BTW. I now have a new coolant leak from somewhere. Probably due to the high system pressure, but I'm not sure. How important is it to track down that exact location now? I think I'm going to do a water pump anyway while I'm in there just because I'm there and it's never been done...

Thanks, Robyn.

[arveetek]

oh no, really? I can't just do the heads while it's sitting in the truck?

If I start there and find the deck is bad, is it possible to hoist the engine out with the heads off or is the risk of getting stuff in there or banging an interior surface or something too great that way?

I guess it would be a lot easier to get at everything with the engine out of the truck. ugh, that's scary.



The problem with trying to do the head gaskets with the engine in the truck is that it's really hard to do a good job and get a good torque on the head bolts. It's not impossible, just really hard. The head bolts on these engines are torque to yield, which means you torque them to a specific amount, and then turn the bolts another 90 degrees. The engine bay prohibits you from being able to make a full 90 degree turn in one step on some of the bolts, so you have to guess at how far you turn the bolts. Pulling the engine allows you to do a good job, make a thorough inspection, and makes it easier to refresh other parts of the engine.

Casey

[billschall]

The engine bay prohibits you from being able to make a full 90 degree turn in one step on some of the bolts, so you have to guess at how far you turn the bolts.

I drew four vertical line on my socket, each representing 90 degrees. I then took a heavy piece of a lightweight cardboard shirt-box from Christmas and drew a cross-hair on it with the center cut out large enough to fit over the socket.

Positioned the socket. Verified the starting point of the swing on the torque wrench. Lined up one of the lines on cardboard-cross-hair with a line on the socket and taped it to whatever was available to hold in place. This enabled me to remove the torque wrench from the socket (not the socket from the nut!) and reposition to complete the required 90 degree turn.

Pain in the butt, yes, my creative juices were a-flowin' that day.

Then, a week later, the Snap-On guy showed up and had a really cool looking torque wrench that calculated degrees....

[Robyn]

The big issue is that at the miles showwing on the clock the thing is going to be in need of a few other things and it will be sooooooo much easier to do withy the engine out.
The timing chain will be loose and the bearings will be well worn as well.
Taking the front end off to do the chain and seal as well as the rear main is just a PITA in the truck.

While the engine is out and with all thise miles Its a forgone conclusion the soft plugs will be ready to let go too.

You are at a very good crossroads to just take care of all this stuff at one time and be done with it.
I could have done mine in the ruck and might have done so but I shut the truck off after the gasket blew and then tried to restart it, (BAD PLAN)
The sucker locked and broke two teeth off the ring gear.

I would really rocommend doing the sucker out of the truck and doing it all now and then enjoy a bunch of good miles.

A water pump and all new hoses would be good too.

If this was a 80-90K engine you could just do the heads and be fine.
At this time take the time and just do it.

Not all that hard.
Take ya a couple weeks of down time and you will have it.

Robyn

[bcbigfoot]

oh no, really? I can't just do the heads while it's sitting in the truck?

If I start there and find the deck is bad, is it possible to hoist the engine out with the heads off or is the risk of getting stuff in there or banging an interior surface or something too great that way?

I guess it would be a lot easier to get at everything with the engine out of the truck. ugh, that's scary.

I did get it back home on Saturday. I have a compression tester on the way so that I can do that check to have reference numbers when I put it back together. I ordered a carcode cable to check if other codes I should know about are up. Then when that is done I figure I'll start ripping into it on Thursday.

BTW. I now have a new coolant leak from somewhere. Probably due to the high system pressure, but I'm not sure. How important is it to track down that exact location now? I think I'm going to do a water pump anyway while I'm in there just because I'm there and it's never been done...

Thanks, Robyn.



Yes you can just change a headgasket with a risk of finding a cracked block or having to do more work to it in the near future. Personnaly I would do as TD65 suggested, check which head is leaking and just put a gasket in with new head bolts and also check the harmonic balacer and also get the head tested. You could get away for a few hundred dollars and a weekend of messing around, then if you don't want the truck you can sell it in good consience. There is no absolute right way, its just a calculated gamble. If you spend 10000 on a unknown truck (maybe a money pit)just to spend anouther 3000 on a trany, pump injector turbo or whatever thats a gamble as well. If you check the head your only out a day of your own labour.

[Robyn]

Bottom line is this.
If the truck is otherwise nice and clean then its worth fixing the thing right and putting some bucks in the engine.
I paid $8500 for the 94 Burb 2 years ago now and we had only had it about 7 months when the engine went south.
Spent $1800 on the engine and its one sweet truck now.
Even if the tranny takes the plunge I will just rebuild it and go again.
Im still way ahead of the game and I know what I have.

Your call for sure.

Best to ya

Robyn