SS Diesel Supply Glow Pug override kit ? [Archive]

DmaxMaverick

02-03-2007, 12:18

I think it is pretty self-explanatory.....

If it were, I wouldn't have asked.

If you are referring to TheDieselPage subscription, it is your choice to pay or not. All of the information available in the articles is available here in the forums, and elsewhere, at no charge. TheDieselPage.com is an E-magazine of sorts, and requires a subscription to access the content. TheDieselPage Forums are absolutely free. You can either pay for a subscription and receive information you seek in neatly packaged articles, or spend the time and effort to find the answers yourself. TheDieselPage.com and TheDieselPage Forums are not one in the same. Just for the sake of argument, when was the last time you purchased a magazine subscription, and the publisher sent you the previous year's (or considerably more) issues?

Someone spent time and effort compiling and publishing the articles and have been compensated. How would you suggest the expense be recovered? This is not a non-profit charity. You get what you pay for. If you feel TheDieselPage has short-changed you in any way, please bring it to our attention.

If you are not referring to TheDieselPage subscription, please explain.

More Power

02-03-2007, 13:28

Chris, If you want access to all currently available online content, but choose not to support our effort, we can help each other - as well as everyone else in the GM diesel community.

Let me know what you are an expert in, regarding the GM diesel vehicles, and I'll assign you a writing and photography project. Not only will you be given a free 1-year subscription once we publish your contribution, but we also pay for well-written and photographed articles. You see, I don't expect someone to pour their effort into research, writing and photography and not be compensated - call it professionalism. I know what it costs in terms of time, effort and money to produce good works that are worthy of being published.

Jim

ronniejoe

02-03-2007, 14:11

Paying for information.....gotta love capitalism....

Your hard headedness is costing you some really good knowledge. You were one who ripped me over there as well.

That's fine. There is nothing close to the value of technical information over there that is available here, so keep on truckin' over there if you like.

chrisk1500

02-03-2007, 15:15

Yep.....two different schools of thought between the two sites for sure....

No wonder I spend so much time on 'the other one'....

Robyn

02-03-2007, 15:22

Just my 2 cents worth

I have always been able to take care of my mechanical needs and repairs myself, but the knowledge base that TDP has is nothing short of incredible.

The fellowship here is great and there is always something popping up that someone else has already been there and done that.

For what little it costs to belong to this site its all well worth every penny of it.

If nothing else the entertainment value of the banter that flies around here is worth the membership cost.

Nothing comes for free daddy used to say and he was right.

Complaining about a few $$$ for the complete use of this site is very petty in IMHO.

I have been trashed on many web based chats and forums so I just ask that anyone who tries to trash me, Please be creative as I am bored with the same old dogma.

Just to weight in
Robyn

chrisk1500

02-03-2007, 15:28

Just one question then.....

If here is so great, why do many of the same people here post on the other site and ask the same questions as well?

You know who I am talking about...

DmaxMaverick

02-03-2007, 16:07

No one has said "here" is better than any other site. What has been said is, it is different. If a reader decides this site is "so great", they have come to that conclusion. The readers choose where they can benefit the most, and be the most comfortable. Only the individual can decide where that is.

If you don't agree, that's your choice. It's a free country. Why readers post the same questions on several sites isn't something we can't answer. You will have to ask them. It would seem you fall into that category, so ask yourself.

If you feel this site has nothing to offer you, then you are wasting your time, as well as ours. I will discuss this as long as you feel it is necessary. Don't expect a change in policy. We try to be as "user friendly" as we can. We also know we can't please everyone, try as we might.

chrisk1500

02-03-2007, 17:49

Why readers post the same questions on several sites isn't something we can't answer. You will have to ask them. It would seem you fall into that category, so ask yourself.

Not to split hairs....but....if you look at my profile you will see that I have been a member here as well as at the other site for the same amount of time (March 2005).....I have never started a thread on this particular site...over 1300 posts on the other site....you're right.....let the masses decide which site they frequent....so long...

ronniejoe

02-03-2007, 17:51

Don't worry about those folks. Most of the questions over there are "How can I Gerry rig this?" or "How can I be cheap with that?"

I, for one, say that this site is far superior to the "other Place". The people are better. The information is better. The friendships are real.

The "other Place" was started with malicious intent after some folks tried to take advantage of Jim and his graciousness. They didn't want to play by the rules here and trompled all over them. Then they wrote libelous things about several folks here and generally made themselves out to be true idiots. Funny, they have more rules and censorship over there now than what ever occurred here. They boot people if they don't toe the line just right over little things. They "borrow" information from here and post it there in the FAQ's.

Mackin has directly attacked me personally and made up lies. Still not as bad as what he has about others here. Frankly, I can't stand to read much of what goes on over there because it is so inane.

Chris is probably one of those guys that would xerox the GM service manuals because it "should be free information." Copyright law is in place to ensure that folks who do the work to generate original content are properly compensated for that effort and expense. If that weren't the case, there would be very little new content because it would not be worthwhile to generate it.

Folks who think everything should be free are really like parasites in a way. They leach off of other's hard work without paying for it or doing it themselves.

Many of the so called "experts" over there gained much of their knowledge here.

My 2 cents!

ronniejoe

02-03-2007, 17:54

Not to split hairs....but....if you look at my profile you will see that I have been a member here as well as at the other site for the same amount of time (March 2005).....I have never started a thread on this particular site...over 1300 posts on the other site....you're right.....let the masses decide which site they frequent....so long...

1300 posts? Big deal! Most of the posts over there are nothing but inane chatter.

We'll be fine here without you. However, you will be welcome back if you decide to knock the chip off of your shoulder.

GMC Hauler

02-03-2007, 19:36

If here is so great, why do many of the same people here post on the other site and ask the same questions as well?

Both sites have their benefits. The articles here are well thought out and complete, and make completing the project easier.

The other one, new ideas flow a little easier, in my opinion. But with that is some of the not so good ideas. You may have to put a little more enginuity into your projects because the documentation is sometimes not as good.

Post a question on 2 sites, more coverage, plain and simple.

Most of the questions over there are "How can I Gerry rig this?" or "How can I be cheap with that?"

I wouldn't go as far as saying that. Read previous statement.

Let me know what you are an expert in, regarding the GM diesel vehicles, and I'll assign you a writing and photography project. Not only will you be given a free 1-year subscription once we publish your contribution, but we also pay for well-written and photographed articles.

I like it. I'm on my second free year. My secret little goal is to go free as long as possible (with articles, of course).

I'm sure you have many good ideas, Chris. Come up with something you haven't seen here and ask Jim about it. I think we need some new 6.5 articles. I haven't seen much new in that way, maybe that the 6.5 nut is pretty much cracked.

Lets leave the fighting on the warfront, not in the States.

C.K. Piquup

02-05-2007, 09:29

...Now,about that SS Diesel Supply Glow Pug Override Kit.......???

dieseldummy

02-05-2007, 23:00

That kit seems to be overpriced for what it is... IMO of course. From a vendor whose tactics are like that other place too...

I've been banned over at that other place a couple of different times by a couple different people for acting just like them... First in the so called "war" room that was nothing more than a joke for them to mock certain people and then by our friend here Tbogemirep (turbine doc) or whatever he calls himself for calling his BS. I guess that's why I like it here so much.

65TD

02-06-2007, 06:08

Alright kids,

Don't make me stop this truck and come back there...

:D

Kennedy

02-06-2007, 09:01

Just one question then.....

If here is so great, why do many of the same people here post on the other site and ask the same questions as well?

You know who I am talking about...

Most of the information posted over there was written, developed here. Some has been plagiarized and some has been rewritten. This site actually prepares and writes REAL articles, and REAL books which take more than 30 minutes to produce.

I don't post much in the 6.5 forum over there because many of my suggestions and techniques are posted by others as their own. That's just a hazard of posting freely on the UBB. There is also a severe lack of loyalty for Supporting Vendors in the 6.5 forum over there yet none of the non supporting vendors have ever lifted a finger publicly to help...

Kennedy

02-06-2007, 09:08

Back to the original subject, a simple starter solenoid will work. I used a plow solenoid with continuous duty primary after losing a cheap starter solenoid. Just wire to output to the OE controller output terminal.

Ron has a simpler way that he developed and published.

I have an even simpler way for the 94-5 trucks in my chip programming. We now have Ron at, or very close to the point where he needs no manual override and can start at 18:1 without assistance...

96ccdd

02-06-2007, 11:01

JK,
Thanks, that was basically what I was trying to find out. The price looked high for what he is giving you. I tried putting a switch w/resitor in line with the coolant sensor. This helped but I still get a rough idle and white smoke on a cold start. I'm going to crimp all new connectors on the gp wires, oh the gp's are new. By using a solenoid as stated below, is there away to hook it up so the gp wait to start light works? I'm dealing with my 96 Suburban. Just as a side note the small fee we pay for this sight does not comprare to how much this site has save me. :)
"Back to the original subject, a simple starter solenoid will work. I used a plow solenoid with continuous duty primary after losing a cheap starter solenoid. Just wire to output to the OE controller output terminal."

Thanks

ronniejoe

02-06-2007, 11:23

Mark,

The "Wait to Start" or "Glow Plugs" light illuminates when my manual override is used. The method that I developed uses the truck's original wiring with three diodes and a switch. It costs less than $5 to impliment.

As John said, I've been testing new programming from him. We've been working on the glow timing and injection timing. When this is finished, John will be able to offer programming for the electronic trucks that will allow 18:1 engines to start with no manual glow control at all. It's pretty cool, really.

john8662

02-06-2007, 13:57

Parallel Relays.

I see the note that the glow plug light will illuminate in the dash when the secondary relay is operating.

Does the PCM see this?

I've got the Penn Adjustable controller and relay but was concerned with wiring it in parallel. Contacted Penn and was told they were not sure if it would cause problems or not... Will have to report back. Too many projects on my plate currently though...

What I'm referring to doing (as mentioned above) is -

Borrow hot lead from hot lead on existing controller

Tie back in on stud on glow plug controller to feed glow plugs.

Worked on an '83 6.2 Van (relay is on back of engine already, not firewall as in trucks) when upgrading to the new controller. Simply left the old relay in place for "manual" glows when needed (which it hasn't needed since the upgrade).

Just wondering (without testing) and consequently burning something up if it would work on the 6.5.

Sounds like it would.

I liked the idea of using existing controller, but didn't like the idea of splicing PCM wires, not that it won't work, just leary of messing with sensitive wiring in that respect.

-Very interesting note on PCM control for 18:1 engines starting ability, that's quite exciting. I was worried that I simply couln't allow anyone to drive my rig because they would have problems getting it to run properly. If it's "automatic" again, then that takes that worry away.

J

DmaxMaverick

02-06-2007, 14:06

Anytime you splice into the PCM harness, you should use relays and/or diodes to prevent stray voltage feedback. The diodes you use should be sacrificial, meaning they fail "open". I've used some "made in China/Taiwan" diodes that fail closed, although the spec was sacrificial. Radio Shack components I've used have been good, regardless of origin.

The PCM should not "see" the WTS voltage, as long as you are not just jumpering the circuit. The WTS voltage is downstream of the controller/relay, so unless you are feeding voltage back, the PCM won't see it.

ronniejoe

02-06-2007, 14:56

Not exactly true. The factory circuit has a feedback to the PCM so that it knows when the plugs are on. That is how it gets information for DTC 29.

My modification keeps this in tact. When using manual pre-glow, the power is off to the PCM so it doesn't "see" the feedback voltage. When using manual post glow, the PCM will see this. However, the short durations required for manual post glow do not cause codes to set. If you accidentally left the plugs on, the PCM would set a code.

You're exactly right on protecting the PCM from stray voltage where it doesn't expect it. The article that I wrote deals with this and three diodes are used for that purpose.

DmaxMaverick

02-06-2007, 15:33

I agree, if using your method. I was referring to the relay method. The voltage will not feed back to the PCM if it is applied after the OEM relay. According to my schematic, the WTS signal to the IP is independent of the PCM. The lamp will iluminate anytime the GP harness (between relay and GP's) has juice. This may vary depending on the year, but the early years are this way, according to the drawing. The GP circuit modifications I've done support it.

Kennedy

02-06-2007, 15:50

JK,
By using a solenoid as stated below, is there away to hook it up so the gp wait to start light works? I'm dealing with my 96 Suburban. Just as a side note the small fee we pay for this sight does not comprare to how much this site has save me. :)

Thanks

I ran my 96 with this method for quite some time before I lost the first solenoid. In fairness to teh solenoid, I used a push on/push off switch (not a good idea) and left it on for well over a minute a couple of times. The continuous duty primary unit is still in and functional.

ronniejoe

02-06-2007, 16:38

According to the schematic in my 95 Helm book (and what I re-created for the article), the relay energizes the glow plugs on both banks. A branch comes off of the feed to the left bank of glow plugs and runs through the Under Hood Fuse/Relay Center through a "Glow Plugs" fuse (10A) and then on to a branch connector. One side of the branch goes to the PCM while the other goes to the "Wait to Start" light. In this way, any time the "Wait to Start" light is on, the PCM should be sensing feedback voltage.

This would be the case if you connected another relay parallel to the factory relay because the power to the "Wait to Start" light and feedback to the PCM come down stream of the relay.

On edit: As long as the primary relay is not energized, no current will feed back through it to the PCM on the "Command" circuitry. This may be where we've been misunderstanding each other. However, the feedback circuit will be hot (see voltage) any time voltage is applied to the plugs.

You definitely do not want to apply 12 v to the "Command" circuitry down stream of the PCM without putting a diode between the PCM and the new source. The article discusses this in detail.