Glow plug problem

[83Blzr62]

I put in brand new kennedy quick heat glow plugs about two weeks ago in my newly rebuilt turbo 6.2 diesel engine. Well this monday it had a very hard time starting. Today I replaced 4 of the brand new glowplugs because they had burnt out(no resistance on an ohm meter). One even had a broken tip. Now I think I may know what is causing my ticking sound. What could a broken tip do? This weekend I am going to replace the rest and see If any more are broken. Needless to say I am going to be very angry if this requires a teardown on something I just finished and spent quite a deal of time and money on.

[Slim shady]

You can remove it through the injector hole. You will need to remove the injector and get a small magnet and a thin set of long nosed pliers. I removed two on a friends vehicle this way. I am not saying it is going to work but it almost always has for me.

If the tip is just swelled and still intact rotate as you pul it out. Spray it with WD-40 and you should be able to work it out without breaking it off. Just don't lose your cool,it is repairable. Could be really bad, but it isn't.

[john8662]

If you've already replaced the glowplug, the tip is now in the cylinder, if it wasn't before.

The recovery required the tip to have broken while you were removing it, then removing the injector to recover the swelled tip.

At any rate, how much of the tip are we talking about? 1/4" 3/8" 1/2" ?

This piece really needs to be found and removed, and if it goes through the turbo, well, it ain't good, I can show you a wheel from that very scenario.

J

[83Blzr62]

It looks like it has been off for a while because it is covered with soot and it is about 1/2" long. I did not have to pull on it at all for it to come out, so it was already broken off before I loosened it. I will check the turbo this week end when I change all the gloplugs to 60G's and see if it is damaged.

[DmaxMaverick]

Have you talked with JK about this? He needs to know if he got a bad batch. That many plugs in short order could be more than just bad plugs. One shot of ether or a failed controller can do the same thing, with any plug brand.

[83Blzr62]

I have a switch for my glow plugs and have had it that way for about two years. I only had a pronlem when I used these plugs. No ehter on this engine either. THe way I start it is switch on the glow plugs for seven to ten seconds and it starts fine every time.

[Slim shady]

If you've already replaced the glowplug, the tip is now in the cylinder, if it wasn't before.

The recovery required the tip to have broken while you were removing it, then removing the injector to recover the swelled tip.

At any rate, how much of the tip are we talking about? 1/4" 3/8" 1/2" ?

This piece really needs to be found and removed, and if it goes through the turbo, well, it ain't good, I can show you a wheel from that very scenario.

J


Is this the fatal squad forum. WHY is everything the worst that it can be. "TIP is already in the cylinder." If it has been broke off prior to removing it and running it?
The swelled tip on a glow plug may be able to go through a pre cup hole after it has gotten beat pretty badly for a long period of time. He has just put his motor together and I don't think it is that bad. I know we all like drama, but guys, giving advice is about helping someone not making them more paranoid.

Whew, I feel better, I remember when my glow plug broke off and yes it was before I removed it. The little rattle made me wonder what was coming apart. I removed the injector and there was my little glow plug end all shinny and beat from rattling around in the pre cup. I believe it ran a week like that before I got the guts to see what broke.

.

[john8662]

Is this the fatal squad forum. WHY is everything the worst that it can be. "TIP is already in the cylinder." If it has been broke off prior to removing it and running it?

No, I hope it can be removed and no harm done. Most plug tips do make it out of the cylinder w/o harm.

[83Blzr62]

Ok, it is not the glowplugs fault. Well, at least the broken one, broke for some other reason. It actually melted off. I put a new one in and drove to work. I found out that the old tip could still be in the precup, so I took out the injector. The new glow plug which had not been used was also broken. I looked at the injector and it had melted pieces of metal on it. I think that it is the cause of my knock and broken glowplugs. I still do not know why the other plugs do not have resistance, but I will check them by hooking them up and turning them on. I had the EGT thermocoulple on that cylinder on the exhaust manifold and it never read above 700 degrees. Also the knock sounded like it was on the passenger side even with the stethescope. I never expected it to be the culprit. Could a leaking injector get hot enough to melt a glowplug tip?

[DmaxMaverick]

Simple answer, yes. Bad injectors can actually flame cut the precup and piston crowns. Too much fuel in only some, or one, cylinder will have a significantly higher combustion temp. If all cylinders get too much fuel, the RPM's increase. If only one, or a few are overfueled, you can be headed for a meltdown. Glow plugs are an early indicator, so consider yourself lucky, and be optimistic.

Heat kills glow plugs. You may have issues with other cylinders as well. Perhaps a timing issue. Also, 10 seconds is a pretty long glow cycle for quick heats.

[83Blzr62]

Yeah, I just read that in another thread, so I balme myself for those. I am going to get that injector checked tomorrrow or firday and not drive it until I do. I hope if it is the injector that it fixes my ticking/knocking sound too.

[arveetek]

Heat kills glow plugs. You may have issues with other cylinders as well. Perhaps a timing issue. Also, 10 seconds is a pretty long glow cycle for quick heats.

JK said that 10 seconds is no problem. My home built glow controller glows for 10 to 12 seconds, and he said that was fine. I've burned out 6 Quick Heats since November.

Casey

[Slim shady]

Is this the fatal squad forum. WHY is everything the worst that it can be. "TIP is already in the cylinder." If it has been broke off prior to removing it and running it?
The swelled tip on a glow plug may be able to go through a pre cup hole after it has gotten beat pretty badly for a long period of time. He has just put his motor together and I don't think it is that bad. I know we all like drama, but guys, giving advice is about helping someone not making them more paranoid.

Whew, I feel better, I remember when my glow plug broke off and yes it was before I removed it. The little rattle made me wonder what was coming apart. I removed the injector and there was my little glow plug end all shinny and beat from rattling around in the pre cup. I believe it ran a week like that before I got the guts to see what broke.

.

I have had a private discussion with John on my post (above) in reply to his. I admit my post was a bit short and may have come across as an attack on his advice. I did not mean to attack him or his advice. The advice is sound and all things are possible. I beleive all of us here have the best intentions when it comes to helping each other.

Slim

[DmaxMaverick]

JK said that 10 seconds is no problem. My home built glow controller glows for 10 to 12 seconds, and he said that was fine. I've burned out 6 Quick Heats since November.

Casey

I still think 10 seconds is too long. If you've burned up 6 of them in a short time, that could be evidence of that. JK may be right, but I think he is basing this on tests from previous versions of the QH's.

The QH's glow very similar to 9G's, according to my own very informal testing. Before I changed over to a manual glow on my '85, it ate 9G's pretty regular. After, it hasn't killed one in 15 years. I glow manually in 5 second intervals, with 3-4 seconds between, depending on tempurature. One cycle for cool-warm, 2 for cold, 3 for really cold, and afterglow according to smoke. Another advantage to manual glow is you don't need any when the engine is warm to hot. I've had the same results on a Mercedes Diesel and Bosch plugs (wire loop type). That said, I have QH's in the '95 since about 2-1/2 years ago, and they are all fine with the OEM glow control.

[Subzilla]

There's an active thread over on the 6.5 section on the Quickheats. It appears there were some bad apples in the bunch and John K is currently beating on the manufacturer for answers.

[DmaxMaverick]

I'm changing the title of this thread. "Do not buy Quick Heat GPs" is a pretty definitive statement. It seems the plugs aren't entirely at fault, and JK is addressing the issue.

If anyone has a problem with this, let me know.

[arveetek]

I still think 10 seconds is too long. If you've burned up 6 of them in a short time, that could be evidence of that.

You may very well be right. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the glow time is too long for the Quick Heats to survive, thus the short life span. That disappoints me, because the 60G's I had in previously lasted for 3 to 4 years with the same amount of glow time. In fact, 6 of the original 60G's were still fine. I just replaced them all with Quick Heats thinking they were better. After the Quick Heats burned out, I put the old original 60G's back in their place.

The Quick Heats might be hotter, but so far, they don't seem to be anywhere near as durable as the 60G's, at least in my case. 60G's = 3 to 4 years. Quick Heats = 3 to 4 months!

Again, I don't mean to come down on John Kennedy, he's standing behind his products. I wouldn't be surprised if he might drop the Quick Heats eventually, though. AFAIK, these glow plugs seem to be the only thing he's carried that seems to haunt him. I know the rest of his products are top notch and of the highest quality.

Casey

[tom yuenkel]

this is so ironic, since I just had the same happen to me in recent weeks on my new 6.2 military rebuild and I posted on it. I went thru my set of quick heats in short order with a 8 sec glow time and wound up stranded on a 10* nite with a new controller and replacement quick heats, I did notice the bad plugs were on the same cylinders but with a few new location thrown in and this left me wondering what the pattern means. I've since replaced them with an old set of SML's that are currently hanging in there. I see mention of checking the injectors and this was exactly the direction I was headed because I can't seem to solve white smoke during startup and having two cylinders "coming online" 30 seconds after startup. I just got a fresh set of injectors to see what impact it has on my trouble and glow plug life. If I get good results I'll post, also I forgot to mention JK stood behind his product for me