Odd problem starting

[Director02]

Here is the story...

I bought a 1995 6.5 TD with 263,000 kms on it in August.....had no starting problems until I parked the truck to put new batteries in it....(winter time in Alberta, Canada) Prior to installing the new batteries, the truck would glow for the normal period of time, but would not turn over. The starter made no noise. There was no sound of the starter engaging and not catching...nothing. I put in the new batteries...and nothing changed.

The vehicle had a starter and an alarm in it. I took teh vehicle to a stereo shop and they gave the wiring of the two systems a clean bill of health.....hit the starter with a hammer (as in a stuck starter) and they were able to start it first try. They suggested putting a new starter in.

So, I towed it to a shop and had them put a new starter in. The vehicle starts great in the cold (after being plugged in) for a couple of weeks...then the probelms start again. Now, sometimes the glow plugs go for less than a second....5 seconds...3 seconds....not long enough to start the truck properly. As well, intermittently, the glow plug cycle will be correct (10 - 20 seconds)...and then I turn teh ignition and no starter! No noise at all....then I try it a few more times....and once and awhile the starter will "clank"....(but not very often...

So, I still do not believe the wiring for the command start and alarm was good...so I took it back to the stereo shop and had them take it all out....then for about two weeks again...everything works normal.....then just recently, the improper glow plug cycle and no starter thing happened again...

The timeframe of all of this is Nov 15, 2006 until now....I haven't had to drive the truck much....but don't want to get stranded!!

Does anyone have ideas of what to logically try first?

PS. Sorry for the long post.

Thanks,

Steve

[a5150nut]

Don't worry about the length of your post, it contained lots of information. The two most common problems you might want to check are all ground connections and your starter switch. Both cause these symtoms. Now I will duck and let everyone else take a shot!

[gmctd]

Ever notice how no one has the "even" starting problem - it's always the odd one..........:confused:

Anyway, yeah - as suggested, start with connections at the battery cables - both ends, all cables - and the system grounds, incl frame to body, the bunch back on the passenger-side rear intake manifold stud.

You're looking for oxidation, corrosion, loose, frayed, broke, etc - make it look like a new one.

Also the starter switch, and relay, if it has one - and, check the power cables and terminals at the fuse block over on the driver's-side fender.

And, dont step on a5150nut's duck !

[Warren96]

Mine had that problem a few years ago, and it threw a bunch of codes that led me on a wild goose chase. Does yours set any codes?

[Robyn]

Take a very close look at the battery cables.
These are notorious for corosion down under the plastic end caps.
The grounds can also go away where they bolt to the engine block.
If these are not pristine the whole system will be compromised.
Also the starters on these engines draw a fair amount of power just to activate the solenoid.
Be sure the ignition switch is in good condition too.
I replaced the ignition switch on my 94 and also wired in a heavy relay to run the solenoid instead of using the ignition switch for the heavy load.

This is easy and amount to running the red wire that activates the solenoid up from the starter to a FORD starter relay (ACCCCCKK I said the F word) and powering the relay straight off the battery.
This drops the power going through the Ign switch way back.

Check or replace all tha battery cables and then try again.
If still no go try jumping the starter solenoid with a screw driver.
you can get to it by removing the right front wheel and the rubber spash flap.
Just jump the solenoid (small screw with red wire to large terminal with hevy cable) If things pop right to life its the ign switch.

Oh and be careful not to short out on the DUCKS tail :0)


Keep us posted

Robyn

[Hubert]

Just to drive home the point side post battery connections can be problematic the older they get and can fool you into believing they are ok because they look clean.

Another tip is specifically look at the passanger side positve post double connection. There is a lead spacer between the 2 cables that must be clean both sides. The connection must also be tight. This connection has a common problem of periodically loosening up. When mine goes loose sometimes the dash voltmeter drops. I can pull over tighten it and everything goes back to normal around ~ 14volts. Any system voltage drop will cause all kinds of wierd electronic problems.

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
Just to add in a thought....Every time the problem was "fixed" it entailed the "fixer" disconecting and reconnecting the batteries. That being said I would think the problem lies in the battery terminal connection. If it was me, I would start by disassembling the connectors and CLEANING, if that fixes the problem, I would start shopping for new cables and ends. The side post connections are DO-DO(my opinion) and can be replaced with the old top mount clamp type(you can SEE when things are dirty). Also larger cables and crimp type clamps can be used(more surface area for connection).
I have an article done on this, I just have to get off my ..... and send it in! I have replaced all the cables in the starting/charge system with heavier cable/wire and it has made a world of difference. This morning it was 0*, I forgot to plug in and had to start cold. The starter spinned for about 3-5 seconds before start.
Hope this helps!
L8r
Conley

[Director02]

Well, I ordered a starter relay for $36 bucks...seemed the one in my turck was kinda loose...its a cheap place to start....will be checking grounds this weekend...i have previously disassembled and cleaned the individual parts of the battery cables...

Thanks for the suggestions guys and gals! Keep em coming...and I will keep you updated on my progress!

Thanks,

Steve

[Turbo Al]

I do a lot of boost starts (run a tow truck) try boosting it from another truck/car with the ground of the boost cable directly on the engine some where with a good clean ground. If it starts up right away then your ground cables are defective or dirty. Defective is broken via corrosion inside the plastic. If all else fails cross over the starter sol with a screwdriver.
Al

[Director02]

Well, my truck had worked well for some time (since my first post I have ben driving it everyday) after cleaning up the battery cables etc....i haven't got to replacing the ground cables yet....I have them ordered now as it is sitting in my driveway and would not start last night (I did not try this morning...too cold)...(-20 C) I drove my car instead....

I figured I'd get some of your thoughts on my truck giving me a good shock every time I shut it off and go to shut the door....

Is this yet another sign of poor grounding?

[gmctd]

Nah - it's probably your nylon undies - try cotton in the wintertime, or better yet, try a keychain around your ankle, one end draggin' on the ground..............:eek:

[sailun]

Funny you mention the shock.......... I've learned to close the door with any part of my hand, EXCEPT the fingertips. Lots fewer nerve endings.

[Director02]

So, while waiting for my ground cables to arrive...one of them has to be ordered from the U.S (I am in Canada) I checked the codes my engine was throwing....this is what i found:

DTC 29 - Glow Plug Relay Fault
DTC 44 - EGR Pulse Width Error
DTC 57 - PCM 5 Volt Shorted

1. Now, from reading on here DTC 57 may have to do with a grounding issue? Another site (Kennedy Diesel - in the tech area) indicates that a DTC57 may have something to do with the tranny?

2. What about DTC 29 - I am guessing I should replace the glow plug relay? Where do I find this to replace it?

3. What would cause a DTC44 code to show ?

Thanks for your continued help guys and gals.

Steve

[billschall]

2. What about DTC 29 - I am guessing I should replace the glow plug relay? Where do I find this to replace it?

It's located on the driver's side head, at the back, near the firewall.

Click on this link to RockAuto for an image of what the thing looks like:
http://info.rockauto.com/Airtex/Detail.html?1R1372.jpg

[joed]

Before replacing the GP relay, you might check its ground first. I believe it uses the common ground located at the back of the pass. side of the intake manifold. Check/clean these grounds as this could also be the source of the code 57.

My dad got a code 29 on his 95 truck. We discovered this ground to almost be separated from its connector. After repairing this, the code 29 hasn't come back yet...knock on wood. Also, check the connections to the GP relay itself - sometimes the nuts on the big lugs get loose, etc.

Joe.

[Director02]

So, as Joed suggested...under the rubber cap on the glow plug controller a nut was loose and you could see where it had been arcing....so i had bought a new glow plug controller...so I put it on....

as well, I left the old engine-cab-frame ground on, as everything looked decent...however, I added an additional engine-frame ground and a cab-frame ground...each independent of the other....i also put on 2 new EGR valves (red and White dot).....

right after i re-connected the batteries...the truck hesitated to turn over as a couple of relays clicked for the first time.....I tried it again and all was good...hopefully the first turn of the key was a learning curve for a computer or something...i have started it a dozen times since replacing the parts and all is well so far....

I'll keep posted up to see if those parts fixed the problem.

[a5150nut]

These trucks are soooooooooooo nice..................when they work properly.