Quick Heats AND 60gs

[JSteward]

I like the benefit of quick heating considering its often -20 here in Wyoming. But I've heard of tons of problems with JK's quick heats burning out after only a couple of months... and to be honest I don't really trust 'em. The glow plugs on the driver's side are easily accessible... the one's on the passenger side are where the headache is. Can I put quick heats in the driver's 4 and 60Gs in the passenger 4? That way if the quick heats go out, I can easily replace them.



-Stew

[DennisG01]

That's a good question - I'll be interested to know the answer, too. My first thought would be that it shouldn't matter - but I'll wait to hear from some more experienced people.

I've had the same problem, although I bought them from SS Diesel. I'm pretty sure they're the same plugs as what JK has.

[GMC Hauler]

I had heard the opposote about the quick heats from Kennedy. I just installed them. After doing it, it won't be difficult to do it again (take the inner fenderwell off, accessible from the steering wheel). The turbo can stay on, but the airbox must come off.

If they do burn out quickly, i'm gonna be upset.

I did hear that the plugs from SS diesel burn out quite quickly.

To answer your question, sure. It's a great idea!

[DaveNY]

How do you tell the difference between 11's ,60's and QH ? I have #s on the plugs that burned out last year and some different Markings on the QH's I installed, which look identical? A few have quit and were replaced by JK. Have controller on the way and will recheck the GP's this weekend in hopes of curing a sluggish startup on not so cold temps. Over two years on first set, had failures on QH 8-10 mos. Dave

[dieseldummy]

I've had the Wellmans from SS diesel and they suck IMO... A good set of 60g's with extended glow time have been more reliable for me. A little birdy once told me that he had quick heats from Kennedy that were Wellmans as well.

[Tough Guy]

I put well over 100,000 miles on a set of 60 G's and never had any trouble with them, I installed a set of the KD quick heats in the 6.5L Blazer my brother-in-law owns and it still starts well with them after 4 years or so.

So who knows, I know TDP did a review on the quick heats and they did heat up faster than the 60 G's. The only real difference that I could see was a little more "meat" on the 60 G's near the tips.

Chris

[john8662]

IIRC, there were actually two versions of the QH plugs.

I've had both kinds, both from KD.

The first set of plugs do not even look like an AC or a Wellman plug, they are physically different in appearance and design. They have served well.

The second set is Wellman plugs, they failed after months of service, but not all of them.

I think the jury is out concerning QH's reliablity in the future.

I hope the quality improves.

J

[GMC Hauler]

How do you tell the difference between 11's ,60's and QH ? Dave
When I took out the 11G's, it said 11G on the side.

A little more searching revealed that they both do burn out.

I hope you're right, Chris. If they do burn out and after KD replaces them (if under warranty), I will end up going with 60G's.

[C.K. Piquup]

How do you tell the difference between 11's ,60's and QH ?

I`ve never tryed the quick Heats.As far as 11g vs 60g,the 60g has no markings on the hex surface.I`m going with those(hotter)and extending glow cycle either with a programmable controller or going manual with a button switch.

[arveetek]

I had 60G's in my 6.2L that were 3 or 4 years old when 2 burned out. I replaced all 8 with a set of Kennedy's Quick Heats at the first of November. I have had 5 of those since burn out (less than 3 months old). John replaced those 5, but I put the old 60G's back in the engine for the meantime. John thinks I have a problem with my timing being too advanced, so I'm going to leave the 60G's in place and see if they burn out in the near future.

John's customer service is great, but I have to say at the moment that I'm not impressed with the Quick Heats. We'll have to see what time says, but my current vote is for 60G's.

Casey

[joed]

They must have changed suppliers/manufacturing processes, because so far both my dad and I have had good luck with the quick heats from Kennedy - my dad's are over 3 years old and mine are over 2. Knock on wood, none have burned out yet.

I've got 60gs in my 6.2 and have had several of those burn out...go figure.

Joe.

[wthif]

John thinks I have a problem with my timing being too advanced, so I'm going to leave the 60G's in place and see if they burn out in the near future.

Casey,

Where is your timing set at, out of curiosity?

I also had some quick heats that started to go out early spring but the weather warmed up quickly and didn't become a problem until November. Now I have 60Gs, but I know my timing is also on the advanced side so it will be interesting to see if it has an effect on longevity of glow plugs.

[arveetek]

Casey,

Where is your timing set at, out of curiosity?

I also had some quick heats that started to go out early spring but the weather warmed up quickly and didn't become a problem until November. Now I have 60Gs, but I know my timing is also on the advanced side so it will be interesting to see if it has an effect on longevity of glow plugs.

It's hard to say. When I rebuilt my engine, I swapped front covers without setting the timing tab to TDC. Even though I used a Snap-On digital timing meter, I could never get the numbers to come out right. Finally I just set it by the EGT and boost gauges and by ear. My seat of the pants meter tells me I got it setting gooooooood! :D

Case

[dieseldummy]

I've had 60g's go bad from timing... They get pitted on the surface. The quick heats I had just quit working and looked fine...

[JSteward]

No one has addressed the primary question... can you use both 60gs and quick heats? Can you mix types of glow plugs? Will that affect the relay or some feedback mechanism?

Thanks

[DaveNY]

I've had 60g's go bad from timing... They get pitted on the surface. The quick heats I had just quit working and looked fine...

Well my 60"s were pitted on the end and white in color, the QH just went bad. But it took 2 1/2 years for the 60's to give up. Couldnt tell you where the timings at only that I moved the pump just enough to the pass side to set the TDCO. Maybe i got a little to much on the advanced side also? AE says its at 10' when the desired is calling for the same? Just pulled offset back to -1.61 after reading these post about timing hoping for a little better cold start. Not exactly checked out on the initial timing procedures and dont want to screw with it to much!
Dave
PS The 60's went bad after trying an additive called Startron, The truck ran great but the plugs went bad right after 600 mi trip back from NC????????????Also my QH's from JK are cearly stamped Wellman

[john8662]

No one has addressed the primary question... can you use both 60gs and quick heats? Can you mix types of glow plugs? Will that affect the relay or some feedback mechanism?

Thanks

They are both designed to operate under the same conditions. Mainly, use the same amperage during usage.

There will be no ill-effects using both types electrically.

The only dis-advantage that I see is that the engine may not start as evenly because of hotter plugs on the other side.

I don't think it'll be an issue at all, I'd do the same thing under the same circumstances for testing sake.

J

[Kennedy]

I'm not going to deny that there have been failures with these plugs. I will say that the actual percentage of failed plugs is really quite small if you look at the number sold. Still, it is higher than it should be and I've been working on communications with the supplier on this. The present "party line" by the MFR and supplier both is that they are being destroyed by running them too long. I take issue with that claim and have been pretty harsh with my replies to them. Responses have been hard to get, but I'l keep digging.

It used to be that the guys who ate plugs were the mechanical pump guys. It is gernerally thought that overly advanced timing and/or sticking advance pistons are to blame. This I do believe myself. The electronic trucks with the stepper motor and crank sensor are a lot sharper and smarter. Plus the ECM is in control. I ran 60g's in my 84 and my 96 and would take a couple out every few months. Same with the QH plugs. I chalked it up to a maintenance item and left things as is because I liked the way they ran.

[GMC Hauler]

I`ve never tryed the quick Heats.As far as 11g vs 60g,the 60g has no markings on the hex surface.I`m going with those(hotter)and extending glow cycle either with a programmable controller or going manual with a button switch.

To clarify, I looked at my old 11g's, and the markings say "11g USA". However, it is not on the hex, it is in the circular part below the hex.

[DaveNY]

John Kennedy,
John,I would like to mention that any criticism of the QH's is not directed in any part to you. You have been , and by all indications will continue to be a responsible Business Man.I have been extremly satisfied with previous dealings and expect to be in the future. My belief is , If One is unaware of a problem it cannot be rectified.Good Luck with the Mfg's
Dave

[JSteward]

John Kennedy,
John,I would like to mention that any criticism of the QH's is not directed in any part to you. You have been , and by all indications will continue to be a responsible Business Man.I have been extremly satisfied with previous dealings and expect to be in the future. My belief is , If One is unaware of a problem it cannot be rectified.Good Luck with the Mfg's
Dave


Ditto. You seem to be a stand-up guy and your company very customer oriented. I'd give any of your products a try. ...but I think I'll put the QH's on the easy-to-change-out side :)

Hopefully, it'll be easier to crank in -20 ...it'll also be a good way to compare longetivity between the two types. I'll be sure and provide feedback on how everything works out.

[arveetek]

John Kennedy,
John,I would like to mention that any criticism of the QH's is not directed in any part to you. You have been , and by all indications will continue to be a responsible Business Man.I have been extremly satisfied with previous dealings and expect to be in the future. My belief is , If One is unaware of a problem it cannot be rectified.Good Luck with the Mfg's
Dave

Ditto!

Casey

[TurboDiverArt]

The present "party line" by the MFR and supplier both is that they are being destroyed by running them too long. I take issue with that claim and have been pretty harsh with my replies to them. Responses have been hard to get, but I'l keep digging.
Hey John,

Is the MFG saying that the stock glow cycle is too long? How many people out there that have had trouble have not modified the stock glow cycle? I would think that if the failure rate is similar with people using the stock glow cycle as well as people with an extended cycle that this sort of busts their theory.

I'm getting close to swapping out my injectors and glows so I'm going to follow this one closely. My truck starts fine right now and the glows are stock as far as I know, or at least 100K. If I

[GMC Hauler]

[quote=TurboDiverArt]Since my truck starts fine now without Quick Heats my assumption is that it

[C.K. Piquup]

All this makes me wonder how,in my`92,I got over 200,000 miles out of the original glow plugs,controller,injectors,I/P,and lift pump.And,when I finally pulled the GPs,they all came out w/o any breaking.I only used anti-gel a few times when we`d get a severe arctic blast and rarely plugged the heater in.

[GMC Hauler]

John thinks I have a problem with my timing being too advanced

What are we defining as "too advanced"?

[DaveNY]

E-Mailed JK last night, my cold start problem is deteriorating QHs, Down to one good one on the drivers side. This includes two warranty replacements sent last month. Will see about pass side when the wheel well comes out to install 60gs.Going to add a controller just to be done. Dave

[Kennedy]

I'm not going to deny that there have been failures with these plugs. I will say that the actual percentage of failed plugs is really quite small if you look at the number sold. Still, it is higher than it should be and I've been working on communications with the supplier on this. The present "party line" by the MFR and supplier both is that they are being destroyed by running them too long. I take issue with that claim and have been pretty harsh with my replies to them. Responses have been hard to get, but I'l keep digging.

It used to be that the guys who ate plugs were the mechanical pump guys. It is gernerally thought that overly advanced timing and/or sticking advance pistons are to blame. This I do believe myself. The electronic trucks with the stepper motor and crank sensor are a lot sharper and smarter. Plus the ECM is in control. I ran 60g's in my 84 and my 96 and would take a couple out every few months. Same with the QH plugs. I chalked it up to a maintenance item and left things as is because I liked the way they ran.

Just a follow up:

Push came to shove today. I'm in a bad mood over dealing the BS associated with helping my Dad with his pension and heel draggers so I decided it was time to get to the bottom of this plug deal.

My supplier (possibly misdirected by the mfr) has been in denial over this so I called engineering and laid it on the line to them. We've sold thousands of 6.5 plugs over the years and seldom heard back except for how well they started. I didn't exactly get an answer today, but I did not get any denial, and an admission that these plugs were being looked into along with a request for an inventory of what we have on hand both new and failed.

[DaveNY]

Go Get Em John, Best to deal with them when your ORNERY!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good Luck
Dave

[Kennedy]

We received a small batch (300pcs) of pluugs with revised coils. The thought is that the increased voltages of alternators on full field trying to catch up after a cold start is what has been knocking these plugs out. The idea is that they will now be less sensitive to operating at higher voltages.

We will warranty any of these plugs that is failed and was sold by Kennedy Diesel. We'll be watching the replacemants although it's getting past the cold season now.

[arveetek]

We received a small batch (300pcs) of pluugs with revised coils. The thought is that the increased voltages of alternators on full field trying to catch up after a cold start is what has been knocking these plugs out. The idea is that they will now be less sensitive to operating at higher voltages.


What about on trucks that don't cycle the plugs after the engine has started? On my '81, the plugs glow for about 10 to 12 seconds, and then I start the engine (homemade controller). They don't cycle anymore once the engine has started, so the higher voltage theory wouldn't apply in my case.

BTW...the old 60G's I put back in after the Quick Heats failed are still going strong..... :confused:

Casey

[BigDiesel]

Any update to this John? I bought some quick heats from you a couple of month's ago and will be installing this weekend. Have all the problems been fixed?

[arveetek]

I thought I would update as well...

I reinstalled the old 60G's in my engine after the failed Quick Heats. That was 2 years ago. Haven't touched the glow plugs or the engine at all since then and they are working fine. I don't believe mine failed due to injection timing or other causes.

Casey

[GMC Hauler]

John,

I have had one burn out this winter, that I promptly replaced with an original AC11G. The plugs were, of course, purchased from you. A replacement would be nice.

Besides that, they have worked good. Timing is set at -1.5.

[Scooby]

The plugs Bill Heath sells have been thoroughly tested and should last longer than original. I have had no problems with mine.

[Tough Guy]

Since my above post in 2007 I have purchased that 6.5L Blazer from my Brother-in-Law and it still starts great with the QH's from Kennedy.

Chris

[Wing Nut OOA]

I have an order i am needing to place and i was going to use SSDiesel.

i was going for the QH's (the only ones they offer aside from stock replacement)

a controller and a turbo oil supply line.

would getting these QH's from kennedy be a wiser choice? is there a website?

or should i go with 60G's instead

we dont get much cold weather here where i'm at and i dont think it gets nasty cold in nashville either where i'm heading later this year.

i've been told not to believe everything i read on SS's site.

[Wing Nut OOA]

okay i answered some of my own questions.

i decided to go with the AC60G's because the local parts store has them

i did find the link to kennedy's website (great site)

i can see how one would need both SS and KD for the widest range of parts.

[JohnC]

Click on "Advertiser's Section" above or go directly to Kennedy Diesel (http://www.kennedydiesel.com/)

[DennisG01]

I'm not saying anything negative against Walt (SSDiesel), but John Kennedy KNOWS the 6.5's inside and out. John is easier to get ahold of, too. Walt's good at returning emails, but that's really the only way to get in touch with him. Again, nothing against Walt, but personally I'd even spend a few extra bucks to get stuff from John. Just my 1 1/2 cents.

[Wing Nut OOA]

well i NEEDED these
http://www.ssdieselsupply.com/product_129_Brand_New_6.5_Diesel_Cylinder_Head.htm l

and i still need to get the turbo oil supply line which i cant seem to find but at SS.

[rameye]

Just Chiming in here...

I installed Johns QH plugs last year.....Round November my ride stopped starting...We had a good snap of below freezing...

Replaced the EZ side with new plugs.... fired right up!

My timing is factory dead on with a new pump and injectors...used a GM Tech I to set it up...injectors had 2500 miles on them @ failure point.

Not a timing or abuse issue here!

Definitely a manufacturing issue

my .02

[Wing Nut OOA]

i'll keep updated if i have any issues with the AC 60G's i just purchased.

hope its un-eventfull because i'll be heading down to tennessee and i would like to get there with no problems.

[Kennedy]

Any update to this John? I bought some quick heats from you a couple of month's ago and will be installing this weekend. Have all the problems been fixed?


I haven't had a request for warranty on any of these plugs in, well I can't remember when. Probably 2007. Still selling them, still liking them, still supporting them, and still guaranteeing them as we always have.



I have an order i am needing to place and i was going to use SSDiesel.

i was going for the QH's (the only ones they offer aside from stock replacement)


a controller and a turbo oil supply line.

would getting these QH's from kennedy be a wiser choice? is there a website?

or should i go with 60G's instead

we dont get much cold weather here where i'm at and i dont think it gets nasty cold in nashville either where i'm heading later this year.

i've been told not to believe everything i read on SS's site.

The key difference here is when there is a problem. Look at how he handles it. Just do a search on failed glow plug issues from him. If you believe his site, he invented most of what he learned right here (where it all started) on the DP.

My experience with the 60g's is that they are a decent plug, but a bit slow.





I'm not saying anything negative against Walt (SSDiesel), but John Kennedy KNOWS the 6.5's inside and out. John is easier to get ahold of, too. Walt's good at returning emails, but that's really the only way to get in touch with him. Again, nothing against Walt, but personally I'd even spend a few extra bucks to get stuff from John. Just my 1 1/2 cents.


I work my tech/sales the exact opposite. I take tech calls and use the web store to take orders. This way I can spend the time necessary to properly diagnose things. I do often refer people to my Tech Tips, or have them email details like DTC listings etc. but prefer to handle one on one.