Do I have to use diesel cut with kerosene?

[DennisG01]

I use FPPF Total Power (recommended by Kennedy) at every fuel-up, in fact I always use a little extra. I was wondering if I have to fill-up with the diesel that's cut with kerosene (I always forget if that's called #1 or #2), or can I continue to use straight diesel. I'm in PA.

[65TD]

Most of the pump fuel gets treated for winter use in cold areas. If it was not the filters would freeze.

It is likely that somewhere along the way this gets goofed up in a supply of fuel.

It's also possible that a fuel stop has removed the filters on their pumps. Just as possible for fuel to be treated more than once.


The anti-gel that a lot of places use is going to reduce the lubricating properties of diesel fuel.

A diesel lubricity formula or two cycle oil should be added to prevent IP and injector wear.

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
I have been gelled up in the fall due to a station not having winter blend fuel and I didn't know it. They had removed filters and it was a staion that didn't move allot of diesel so they had tanks full of summer blend. What I normally try to do is buy from truck stops where they list #1, #2 and blend at the pumps. That way I can decide what I want to use. I ALWAYS use an additive and 2stroke oil with the dry fuel they are selling.
#1 diesel is winter stuff, less power but straight #1 will not gell in normal conditions. I have had gelling problems with it in Norway but it wasn't what I would call normal. #1 also makes less power per gallon. In MN you have to make sure that you get #1 road fuel and NOT off road fuel as they tax it differently.
#2 straight will start to have gelling issues below 25*, also last year in MN the diesel fuel started having a 3%( i think) biodiesel mised in. This seemed to cause all kinds of problems. Not sure what the issue was but it really nailed allot of the construction companies.
Hope this helps!
FPPF is good stuff....
L8r
Conley

[DennisG01]

I do buy from a truck stop - I'm lucky enough to have a big one only about 5 or 10 minutes from my house. The last time I filled up there, they had both #2 and #2 with kerosene (I think that's what they called it, it was a while ago so I could be wrong) - thanks Conley for the explanation. I got the impression that they would be carrying both throughout the winter. But you both brought up a good point about the diesel gelling in THEIR tanks/filters. I was only thinking about it gelling in my tank - I never thought about it on the station's side!

If I could get regular #2 and used enough FPPF, would that be sufficient?

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

As stated above, #2 will begin giving trouble ~ 20[SIZE=3][SIZE=2]

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
I know the posts are out there about Jet fuel...BUT, I'm gonna tell a story anyways! I stated above that I had issues with #1 gelling in Norway, 5gallons of what I was told was jetA fixed the problem in 32gallons of what we were told was #1. The trucks ran fine with no problems, seemed like they clatered a little more...
One of my local fuel guys ran Home heating oil(kero) in his delivery truck because "that's what he had when he ran out of diesel" His truck never suffered any problems. The main issue around here is that heating kerosene and off road diesel are dyed and if you get caught with the wrong stuff in your tank....well lets just say it won't be cheap!!!!
If you follow the directions on the bottle the FPPF stuff should work fine for you, if you get a little paranoid like I do then run 3-5 gallons of #1 in the tank also.
L8r
Conley

[DennisG01]

Thanks, guys. So I guess I'm alright with whatever is in my tank now since I used a generous amount of FPPF. The next time I fill up I'll ask a little more about what makes up their different grades of Diesel.

What makes #1 OK to use in cold weather and not #2? What is different between these two grades? Inquiring minds...:)

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

"...Home heating oil(kero)..." I was unaware of kerosene being used for home heating oil. In my admittedly limited understanding of such, home heating oil, if stored inside, is #2 fuel oil, which is the same as #2 diesel fuel, except for the additive package; #1 heating oil, same situation. Please - more info. :)

[SIZE=2]"[FONT=Verdana]What makes #1 OK to use in cold weather and not #2?"[FONT=Verdana] #2 gells (or whatever) at ~ 20[SIZE=2]

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy Brian-
Your are correct, I mispoke. Home heating oil and Kerosene are probably not the same. I guess what I ment was that he used #1 home heating oil in his truck. Probably about the same as #1 diesel.
I seem to remember some one doing a really good job of explaining the two grades in chemical terms awhile back....try a search. it was -22 in my backyard last night, truck started like a champ(plugged in of coarse)
L8r
Conley

[DmaxMaverick]

Don't worry about kerosene. For all intents and purposes, it is interchangeable with #1 in all respects. If you are using an anti-gel additive, you don't have to worry about which you use, anyway. I suggest using straight #2 (if it's available), and add an anti-gel additive. That way, you can formulate the additive according to your needs, and prevent lubricity issues. Straight #2 with an additive will give you better mileage than any mix with #1 or kerosene. Any Diesel fuel mixed with bio will have a higher gel point (gels sooner), and needs a higher % of additive to keep the gel point as low as #2 or a mix of Diesel.

You need to verify the FPPF you are using is an anti-gel. Not all additives, even of the same brand, have everything in one bottle. Contact JK about this, as he is the leading advocate for FPPF. He will know what your additive is doing for you, and what you may need to adjust to meet your conditions.

This last week, I made a trip from my home to northern Idaho, and back with my '01 Duramax (2500 mile round trip). Temps varied from 20

[rustyk]

Dmax is correct - for all intents and purposes #1 and kerosene are the same, and #2 heating oil and diesel are the same, as far as the base stock is concerned. JP-4 is very close to kerosene.

But note that the similarities of the base stocks don't translate to equivalents in application. Additives are introduced to provide additional characteristics.

Kerosene is a lighter base stock than diesel, and it is blended into diesel for winter blend because the flash and fire points are lower (you can light kerosene with a match, but not diesel). This contributes to easier starting, and helps retard gelling. Other additives, such as pour-point depressants (PPDs), also find their way into winter blend. PPDs are a fancy way of saying "anti-gelling agents".

The downside is somewhat reduced energy content (worsened fuel economy) in winter blends, but the lower induction air temp should compensate for most of that...

[65TD]

When you say FPPF what are you referring too?

Which additive?

[DennisG01]

http://www.fppf.com/

I use Total Power. According to their website, it has the same level of anti-gel as Polar Power, but has other benefits.

[65TD]

I'm sure it's good, but you need some lubricant.

lubricity plus fuel power would be better, or total power and a lubricity formula, or total power and 2 cycle motor oil.


Winter mix additives dilute diesel and it needs a lubricant.

[Gobbledot]

Hey I have a question on this matter too. I just purchased a 07 Classic Silverado which it has the LBZ, it it safe to use the Power Service in it too? Thanks and sorry if I posted in the wrong place..

[Bnave95]

I've used Power Service day one,May1998.
Gray Bottle,summer.
White Bottle, winter.
I would use it on new trucks also.

[DennisG01]

I'm sure it's good, but you need some lubricant.

lubricity plus fuel power would be better, or total power and a lubricity formula, or total power and 2 cycle motor oil.


Winter mix additives dilute diesel and it needs a lubricant.


It says on the FPPF website that it contains lubricity. Do you think this is not enough? I've been going on JK's recommendation that this is the only thing needed to add to the fuel.

On another note, would adding 1/2 quart to a quart of clean, unused motor oil do anything - destructive or beneficial? I've got about 8 quarts of 5W30 (not synthetic) that has just been sitting on my shelf.

[rustyk]

I'd suggest NOT using the motor oil - there's no telling what's in it that might not burn properly...

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
the reason for using 2stroke motor oil(if you feel the need for more lubricity) is that it is made to be burned. Regular motor oil is made to resist the effects of burning. I don'tthink it takes much, I use about 6oz per tank and it makes me feel better. Who knows if it actually changes anything....Lord knows my truck has seen it's share of problems...But I love it so much!
L8r
Conley

[65TD]

Motor oil is bad. 2 cycle is good.

Yes, there is some lubricity in the additive. It is designed to lubricate ulsd. The problem being that the diesel is thinned out this time of year.

It will probably be enough lubricity but it is hard to tell how much. I'm not taking a chance on it.

[Idle_Chatter]

I'm an FPPF user. I've used it in every drop of fuel added to my 2001 DMax (Total Power). I'm still running on the original injectors at 135,500 miles and my balance rates are all 3 or less. I just recently added 2-cycle oil to my fuel for the first time. I put 1 quart into my 40 gallon aux tank and 1/2 quart into my 26 gallon OEM. It seemed to have quieted the engine just a bit and reduced some of the cold idle lope. The truck did feel a lot "spunkier" and performance was up noticably. I emptied the aux and swapped to the OEM on Wednesday, I haven't calculated mileage on the treated aux tank yet. I was a little concerned about adding a thick oil to my fuel with temps in the single digit highs and double digit minus (F) overnight - but it hasn't been a problem.

[65TD]

Lucas is a good lubricant as well. It is just oil and no distillates.


Howes is a lubricant and also a good anti-gel.


Both are widely available.

[K. D.]

Difference between #1 and #2 diesel fuel.. they remove the wax from #2 diesel.. that's the stuff that gels. Result is #1 diesel. The wax also has more BTU's so you lose power. There is also an Arctic diesel fuel, good to -60C, could have used some last year when it hit -50C here, #1 turned solid.

CAT recommends JetA, JP4 or JP8 when temps fall below -40C. Kereosene is a dry fuel, no lubricants.

K.D.

[65TD]

New fuel requirements in effect hinder the removal of wax, maybe to retain some of the power.

ULSD will have more wax content and a higher pour point as a result.


Most fuel will be ULSD with an additive for lowering the pour point.

[Idle_Chatter]

Well, just a quick update on the use of 2-stroke oil. My mileage went from 16.8 to 18.6 mpg on that first aux tank of fuel with a quart of 2-stroke. That includes operations in double-digit minus temps (F) and a couple of runs in 4wd of at least 50 miles each. I'll be emptying my main today and swapping back to the aux, which got another quart of 2-stroke oil when I refilled it on Saturday. Temps are coming up (still below freezing) and I'm very interested to see if this continues to balance the Winter fuel and ULSD mileage drop as well as increasing lubrication for my injection system.