99 6.5 sudden DEATH

[gardnerteam]

Sheesh, though I'd never have a problem with my wife's 99 3/4 4X4 6.5 Sub with 35,000 miles on it. BUT, it now intermittently dies (electrical shutoff death, not out of fuel) occasionally while at a stop sign, changing from reverse to drive, or on a couple occasions, while driving down the road at 65 mph. Dealer (normally good) can't find it, computer doesn't show it and sometimes it will go 1,000 to 3,000 miles without doing it. Then it will do it several times in a row, and then no more. All but one time it started immediately, but one time took a minute or so for it to start. Any ideas? Have checked connections, etc. Thought it might be a solenoid or relay going bad, but it doesn't show up on computer readout. Any thoughts appreciated.

[wilpulu]

My truck was doing the same the other day. Took a guess on the Fuel Solenoid Driver and haven't had a problem since. From reading posts on the site I wouldn't doubt if yours went out with only 35k on it. If it turns out it is the FSD I would invest in an aftermarket cooler for it while you're at it.....Good luck

[Dimsdale]

Yeah, it is probably the FSD. Replace with an new one on a cooler off the IP. Wouldn't hurt to check the wiring harnesses and clean and pack all the connectors with dielectric grease. Grounds are a particular problem as well, so make sure all ground connections are clean and greased.

Some have indicated that the ignition switch can become faulty and cause similar problems.

[jlog]

your 1999 ip is covered under the extended pump warranty. take it to the dealer and they replace the whole pump, not just the fsd. then invest in the remote mounting.
john

[charliepeterson]

I don't think the dealer will replace the Injection Pump without the proper codes logged. They will replace just the FSD. Just explain what it's doing. When this part fails due heat it will never show a code and it's like someone reached over and turned the key off. Tell them this is a serious saftey issue with children in the car even if you don't have any.


Good Luck

[jbplock]

Also checkout Solutions for 1994+ 6.5TD Stalling (http://www.thedieselpage.com/members/99tt9.htm) in the members area. The FSD is the most likely cause for stalls but there are others such as a plugged fuel filter or inoperative lift pump. When the lift pump failed on my 98 I had few stalls when coming to a stop. smile.gif

[phajna]

I just had the same problem with my 1999 Suburban (52k miles). FSD failure code. The dealer replaced FSD only - under warranty with deductable. Not much fun cutting out at 65 MPH in traffic.

[richard7]

PMD is part of the injection pump that is completly covered with the extended warranty with NO deductible. Go get your money back!

They are supposed to replace the complete injection pump but if you aggreed to replace the PMD only, your choice.

[gardnerteam]

OK - went back to GMC dealer, who said they will not replace anything until they find a code. They say it must throw a code or stall on them, or I'm outta luck. The Fuel Solenoid was previously replaced at about 22,000 miles (and it cured the same problem until now), but they say they will not replace it again nor do anything else unless I want to pay for it. They tell me (which I know better) that GM will not pay unless it throws a code. Suggestions please on how to contact GM & complain? I must admit it really pi--es me off as I send them 6 to 8 new truck sales a year and never sweat the small new vehicle stuff, but stalling in the middle of a 4 lane highway with traffic at 65 mpg is no small stuff.

[ucdavis]

Gardner-
1) If you are that good of a referal service you should have a discussion w/the dealership General Manager. You are basically a goldmine to them (unless these are all fleet-type sales pinced down to the last nickel).
2) Service dept has to follow a proceedure (an I think fill out an incident report showing they followed the correct diagnostic proceedure) to get reimbursed by GM. Many stealerships didn't follow good diagnostics for years & replaced many perfectly good IPs when lift pump, OPS or other component was the real problem, so GM has gotten tough. Have them print out their requirements for you so you can see (then post them for us to see!). Compare to the warranty (see Members Area, Reference section for current version).
3) Couldn't have been Fuel Solenoid that was replaced; that's integral to the Injection Pump so you'd have gotten a whole new IP to get a new FS. Could easily have been the FSD, black box the size of deck of playing cards on side of IP.
4) GM has a toll free customer "assistance" line @ 800-222-1060 (have your VIN# ready) which will direct you to a dealer, log a complaint to be ignored and read the warranty to you that you can read for yourself (I think its staffed by 16 year old cheerleader volunteers). You can try asking for a supervisor, etc. to see if that accomplishes anything. Toll free from Mexico is 01-800-508-0000, where you'll be directed to the nearest dealer in the United States as if that could possibly do you any good when you're stuck by the side of the calle.
Good luck & post your results.

[jbplock]

IIRC, disconnecting the pump wire harness and then trying to start the truck will set a pump related code. smile.gif

[Turbine Doc]

Ditto on disconnecting center Inj pump connection, played stealership game, in & out of the shop no code present so it must not be broke, so finally in exasparation & with guidance from another esteemed DP member, I pulled plug start attempted, no start set code, reconnected it drove back to dealer; that with previous multiple visits convinced them it was a bad pump afterall, got mine replace under warranty

[Bill H]

my '96 just started pulling the same trick. i gather from the replies here i should replace the fsd on a cooler off the ip, or better yet, replace the ip at the same time. i bought my truck used on ebay and have a chance to buy a warrenty from www.1sourceautowarranty.com. (http://www.1sourceautowarranty.com.) has anyone here dealt with this outfit or know if they would cover something like this? anyone know of any other kind of warrenty i could buy that would cover this? otherwise all repairs are coming out of my pocket. ouch ! where's a good place to get the aftermarket cooler?

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

jbplock has the right suggestion, but my money

[jbplock]

Brian,

I agree with you an the moral questions, but the other way to view it is, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's" smile.gif

[gardnerteam]

OK - this is a 4th vehicle, so I have let the problem set a few weeks. Just got back from the dealer where I told them I had the vehicle checked for codes and found the code for the fuel solenoid driver just like I told them in the first place - if fact had had it checked twice, once after left their shop and again recently, and it is still there. They denied it and basically told me to screw myself (politely, though). I asked for the factory rep and for the owner (who I personally know), neither who were available. Final words out of service persons mouth were that the Fuel Solenoid Driver is not covered under the 100K warranty and I would have to pay for another plus labor if I wanted one. I thought this was part of the injection/emission system and covered. Comments - and if it is covered, something specific I can refer to. These guys are just looking for a way to charge anything to you. Love to catch them billing GM as well. If it is not, I will have it taken care of elsewhere. You can be sure this dealer will get no more new truck (no fleet sales) referrals. I will wait until the appropriate embarassing time to advise the owner and my friend his finance manager.

[rjwest]

Went through all as you stated, GM service would not
help....Broke down to many times, Had pump replaced at my expense.
As for stalling in traffic......
Is it time for a law suit.......Goverment intervention..... Who do you write to..

.

[Bill H]

I finally got a complete copy of the Special Policy on IP & FSD warrentee, Doc #1332172, dated 5/13/2003. It includes a 7 page diagnostic worksheet the dealership must complete to give you the warrentee repair/replacement. If after all that diagnostics (mostly by a process of eliminating anything else that could be wrong) they come up with a bad IP, there's a list of approved parts to replace on the warrentee, most notably the IP and the FSD (part #12562836, the Pump Mounted Driver is specifically listed). The exact words on the doc are, "The pump repair or replacement will be made at no charge to the owner."

I believe this doc will soon be posted in the member's area from another source. I'm getting ready to do battle with GM on the same issue, but I'm armed with the doc and I'm going to get as much of the worksheet completed by a qualified independent source as I can, before I take my vehicle in to the dealership.

Thanks to your original post I became aware of the 120,000 mile warrentee on the IP. Getting the dealership to honor it is another matter. Before I go any farther, I should try to get the media involved to expose any crooked dealerships I run up against along the way.

[gardnerteam]

Velly Interesting!!!! Service rep called me this afternoon after I left this am quite irrate, and demanding only to speak to the owner and GM rep from now on. He meekly said they wanted to fix my vehicle, would refund my money paid for the earlier diagnostic, and take care of the entire matter to my satisfaction. So, I told him "It is covered, isn't it"? He said "Yes", and I told him he then lied to me this morning, and he again said "Yes". I told him I wasn't coming in until I spoke directly to the owner and the GM rep. He told me that wasn't possible. Do I smell a scam of some sort going on here that possibly GM or the owner don't know about? Or am I just a paranoid old fart who hates to be scammed. Seems to me they are caught with their hand in the cookie jar both for charging me (and probably charging GM), and secondly, for not even doing the diagnostic in the first place since the code was there shortly after it left the dealership and it hadn't quit since it left. This little transaction smells bad and I do not think the owner is going to like it. I'm gonna have some fun with this. By the way, my client who is a diesel mechanic and a damn good one says you can take the back off the fuel solenoid drivers, tighten the 4 small screws, and have no further problem. He says the heat (expansion and contraction caused) and the vibration loosten the screws and the unit ceases to function. Says he has done many this way on fleet trucks and never has to replace the unit. Do not know, but it is an idea.

[ucdavis]

Gardner,
1) You may be on to something; I never thought some service-writer or other commissioned class of dealer front man might be double dipping. No wonder GM hates the he** out of this warranty. Getting ripped off by stealership mechanics who are too lazy & change an IP rather than do proper diagnostics for OPS, lift pump... is bad enough. Billing both sides, which would be pretty easy fraud to perpetrate, makes perfect sense of the whole "deductible" biz.
2) The FSD doesn't throw a code, so if you're getting one it is indicating something else. FSD is diagnosed for replacment by eliminating other possibilities.
If you make any headway on isolating fraud, please post all the details. Sounds like this may be a common way for a service writer to "earn" a bonus or for the dealership to "enhance revenue."

[gardnerteam]

IN this case I'm betting the service writer is only doing what he is told by the service manager who has a lot of control and probably is paid bonus for profitability of shop. Service writer is a nice guy who appears to feel guilty and only mouthing what he is told. Owner has called me twice while I was out, so there appears to be some concern. They sure want to fix it and shut me up now.

[Jon P.]

It looks like I get to join the IP club. Some history:

I bought a used 1999 K2500 Suburban with the 6.5L in August 2002. It had about 55,000 miles. Only 2 issues so far -- oil cooler lines and alternator/battery terminals, both fixed under extended warranty.

The vehicle now has 71,000 miles. I drove it down to Atlanta this weekend. On Saturday night it would not start right up, like it usually does. It cranked, but wouldn't fire -- like it was not getting fuel. I let it sit for a few minutes, let the glow plugs go out, and it started right up. From this site, I was concerned about the OPS and lift pump. However, it's been starting right up.

Today my wife called and said it stalled when she was driving down the road. It started right back up. I called the dealer I bought it from. I suggested that it could be the lift pump/OPS, but the service guy I spoke to said it was likely the injection pump, which is covered under a special program. Unfortunately, he said parts may take a while to get. So far, not too bad.

Here's the problem. He told me that the "special program" does not cover certain labor costs and parts costs, like the cost of replacing a coolant hose (maybe the bypass hose/fitting on the thermostat cover). He said it would cost be about $200.00 out of pocket. This just sounds wrong. Does anyone have a copy of document 1332172 that they could share? I understand from this thread that it says that the replacement shall be at no charge to the owner. I'd like to be able to challenge them on this.

Thanks.

Jon

[ucdavis]

See the top post @ top of 6.5 forum on DS4. It has a link to the current owner notification doc.
Generally, GM has committed to dealers diagnosing the problem (from which dealer needs to find some actual issue to get reimbursement from GM or they'll try & charge you, I'd guess), identifying whether it's an IP/FSD problem, and replacing the FSO solenoid, FSD or entire IP as applicable w/out cost to you if it falls under IP/FSD trouble. The only thing I see which isn't explicitly covered is whether GM covers the cost of cleaning the fuel tank/lines if metal contamination is found (they should pay for that if my theory is correct that the metal is the IP self destructing, but that's my theory).
Your problem sounds like the simple variety of the FSD failing. If you have access to a scanner, & you have trouble codes 1216/1217 or 0251/0370 it could be the IP; if no codes- probably the FSD only.
If you want to check out the problem yourself, see:
http://www.thedieselpage.com/members/tt99-9.htm
Aside from this snotty little problem, and kepping a watchful eye on overheating, your 6.5 should give you great service.