Power Chip

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

Just wondering if anyone has used the 80hp/160tq chip available for the EFI 6.5's. If so, do they actually produce this much power? Just looking for my dads '95 6.5. Thanks

[john8662]

I feel that the performance claims in HP/TQ are most likely false in most cases. The chip will add more fuel and increase the turbo boost pressure safety level, which will increase the power output of the engine.

Simple as that.

Only two vendors i know of advertise HP claims. Maybe they're accurate?

J

[ECMProgrammer]

Originally, the base truck would come in the door at around 165-175 HP at the wheels. When they'd leave with 230HP at the wheels (with no other bolt-ons or gadgets), we could guarantee the numbers stated were true. We always got the best gains from the L56 EGR trucks, btw.

This was prior to developing our tuning package for the 1994-1995 6.5TD, of which we've found much more info in the code, to make even more HP. Hope this helps.

Lyndon :cool:
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage
1-888-WESTER-1

[Bnave95]

Originally, the base truck would come in the door at around 165-175 HP at the wheels. When they'd leave with 230HP at the wheels (with no other bolt-ons or gadgets), we could guarantee the numbers stated were true. We always got the best gains from the L56 EGR trucks, btw.

This was prior to developing our tuning package for the 1994-1995 6.5TD, of which we've found much more info in the code, to make even more HP. Hope this helps.

Lyndon :cool:
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage
1-888-WESTER-11994-1995 6.5L L56 and L65 TurboDiesel (Auto or Manual Trans)
Two choices
30-45 HP Gains No exhaust upgrades or pyro kit needed.
Custom Performance Chip $329.00 SD
GM Truck 1994-1995 6.5 Turbo Diesel -- 60 to 75HP gain depending on transmission. Race Programming for extreme performance. L56 or L65 Calibrations, calibrations for Intercooler-- No Wastegate codes. Custom Performance Chip $429.00 SD

Thinking the 60-75HP will need Exhaust,intake mods. Intercooler a must with this program?

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

6.5 Detroit Diesel: Correct me if wrong, but I think the chips you

[arveetek]

Good Day!

6.5 Detroit Diesel: Correct me if wrong, but I think the chips you’re talking about are for 94 & newer 6.5’s with the DS4 electronically-controlled IP. On your truck, you turn up the IP for more fuel.

Blessings!

I hate to point this out, Moondoggie, but if you'll look in his first post again, you'll see he's asking this question about his dad's 95 6.5L.

Sorry! :) All of your information given is very good and valid, though!

Casey

[Kennedy]

I find the 6.5 to produce about 130-140 RWHP. A really strong one with exhaust, timing, phazer 150-ish. Chipped add 40HP to MAYBE 60HP. Intercooling is a must and HO injectors will also help. I don't make HP claims as the gains can vary too widely. I tend to let the real world results speak for themselves.

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

Yup - once again I've "opened my mouth & removed all doubt." Well, give me this much - I'm entertaining, eh? :rolleyes:



Blessings!
(signature in previous post)

[mjv88]

so where exactly is this "chip" located on the 95 6.5TD that you can change to increase hp?? please explain

[a5150nut]

Pull out your glove box. There is a silver metal box behind it with a bunch of wires coming out. That is the ECM. Small plate on the side, remove and the E_Prom is right there. Be very carefull removeing replacing this and Don't blow on or touch the contacts. Most vendors will want the numbers stamped on the top of the E_Prom to correctly match theirs to yours. I put one in mine, opened the exaust and intake. I noticed more bottom end and pulling power in the hills. Mine is what they would refer to as the RV grade chip. Kennedy and Heath offer a version with even more power now. But you will need guages, intercooler, hi pop injectors, and possibly water injection. The lower HP of the chips increases diveability and is very reliable.

[rtphillips370]

I am curious how well will I fair with my 1999 6.5TD dually after adding the following equipment, the truck is at approx 150k miles now and I have added the boost and pre-turbo egt gauges. Will the below addon mods be enough to increase a sustained capability to tow in the 10k-12k pound range verses the rated 8k the dealer says its designed for? Here is what I plan to add to it this year:



1. USDIESEL - Max-E-Tork ECM +65-70hp
# 65COMPUTER
1996-00 6.5L TD
Max-E-Tork

2. Kennedy Intercooler for 2WD

3. US DIESEL - (8) 6.5L Performance Injectors +30-40hp / 94-00
# 1040166B
1993-00 6.5L Turbo Diesel Performance Injector Set (8) +30-40hp, +60 lb ft torque

4. US DIESEL - Turbo-Master Boost Enhancer 96-00
# TM-GM96
1996-00 6.5L; Turbo-Master Boost Enhancer

5. JC Whitney 4 Inch exhaust from the turbo to bumper with flow through muffler

The primary purpose of the truck will be to tow a fifth wheel RV, the one I have now weighs 7000 pounds, and I have been looking at models weighing in the 8k to 10k range and thus the reason for the mods.

[sturgeon-phish]

The mods you have in mind will help, but, the real factor is not the manufacture weight but how much you weigh loaded going down the road. Where you go (mountains?) and how you drive (at speed limit or less or pedal to the metal) to get there makes a big difference. You can see my outfit in my sig line. I do fine and have not had any problems, but I drive real easy. There are folks here who tow as much or more with their 6.5's
Jim

[rtphillips370]

Since installing the kennedy gauges, I have found that my driving at the speed limit (65 -75mph) with A/C turned with the RV on the back is out of the question as the EGT is sustained at 1300F, I found that at current setup, I can drive 55-60MPH with A/C turned on with the RV and run between 900-1200F egt. This is in the summer, with my 6800# fifth wheel and on relatively level ground of lower Michigan, all we have are hills with some worthy of being concerned about towing.

My goal is to be able to pull a larger fifth wheel, one weighing in about 10000-12000# at the speed limit and possibly up through the some hills like those on the highway west of St Louis into Oklahoma ( A route I take when going from MI to San Antonio TX).

[Kennedy]

Since installing the kennedy gauges, I have found that my driving at the speed limit (55 -75mph) with A/C turned with the RV on the back is out of the question as the EGT is sustained at 1300F, I found that at current setup, I can drive 55-60MPH with A/C turned on with the Rv and rin between 900-1200F egt. This is in the summer, with my 7500# fifth wheel and on relatively level ground of lower Michigan, all we have are hills with some wortyhy of being concerned about towing.

My goal is to be able to pull a larger fifth wheel, one weighing in about 10000-12000# at the speed limit and possibly up through the some hills like those on the highway west of St Louis into Oklahoma ( A route I take when going from MI to San Antonio TX).

Exhaust will make quite a difference in your EGT. From there you could try programming or boost controller. I prefer computer control of the wastegate as the OE vacuum gate controls boost. Turbo Master controls exhaust back psi.

My electronic boost control will also lower EGT and improve performance, but a properly setup ECM (looking at the big picture) should need no boost controller.

[rtphillips370]

Exhaust will make quite a difference in your EGT. From there you could try programming or boost controller. I prefer computer control of the wastegate as the OE vacuum gate controls boost. Turbo Master controls exhaust back psi.

My electronic boost control will also lower EGT and improve performance, but a properly setup ECM (looking at the big picture) should need no boost controller.

Would the boost controller be something I should add in addition to the equipment I have indicated to be added or should I substitute one of those pieces for the boost controller you suggest? One of the pieces I plan to add is the mechanical modification to the turbo charger (the turbo boost enhancer) that As I understand it, assists the vacum servo in controlling the waste gate.

[ECMProgrammer]

1994-1995 6.5L L56 and L65 TurboDiesel (Auto or Manual Trans)
Two choices
30-45 HP Gains No exhaust upgrades or pyro kit needed.
Custom Performance Chip $329.00 SD
GM Truck 1994-1995 6.5 Turbo Diesel -- 60 to 75HP gain depending on transmission. Race Programming for extreme performance. L56 or L65 Calibrations, calibrations for Intercooler-- No Wastegate codes. Custom Performance Chip $429.00 SD

Thinking the 60-75HP will need Exhaust,intake mods. Intercooler a must with this program?

You can never go wrong with an intercooler ! Provided it's properly mounted for the best airflow, and there's not a big pressure drop across the setup--even more HP can be had.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
My advise would be to do the mods one at a time. Checking your performance at each stage. The biggest increase will be seen by opening up the exhaust, 4inch with a new bigger down pipe. If you have 150,000 on your injectors then new ones are probably in order, hi-pop or standard.
My first motor had JK's electric boost control STOCK ecm and high pop injectors, phaser gear drive and big open exhuast. This set up ran very well, I have towed 16,000 with it several times. The current rendition of the same truck is what is listed in my profile. It runs strong and the intercooler is BIG plus. My main reason for switching to a Turbo-master was to eliminate the vac pump. It works fine and in 60,000miles have had no problems.

Hope this helps...
L8r
Conley

[1999GMC]

Have a friend who works for International and says the people who are running chips and stuff on them are losing longevity. And I know the 7.3L is a stronger motor. My question is then, are the people running the chips on our 6.5L not having problems? After he told me that I was nervous to buy a reflash. Or is he full of it? After I put the intercooler on my truck I am only seeing 1050 on my EGT's on a 5 mile 6% grade with GCW of 16,000 when it is 90-100 degrees outside. In the winter usually only see about 900-950.

[rtphillips370]

You can never go wrong with an intercooler ! Provided it's properly mounted for the best airflow, and there's not a big pressure drop across the setup--even more HP can be had.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage

I am saving my pennies for the Kennedy Intercooler on his website for my beast ;) other than the ecm will be the biggest portion of my investment this year.

Pardon the repetition as I am learning, but after more reading I am slightly confused on the issue of the turbo modification. Is it better to simply add the electronic modification to that of the mechanical one as I have indicated? or is it preferable to do both? Thank you ahead of time to all of you for your help and guidance, its invaluable!!!

[Kennedy]

I am saving my pennies for the Kennedy Intercooler on his website for my beast ;) other than the ecm will be the biggest portion of my investment this year.

Pardon the repetition as I am learning, but after more reading I am slightly confused on the issue of the turbo modification. Is it better to simply add the electronic modification to that of the mechanical one as I have indicated? or is it preferable to do both? Thank you ahead of time to all of you for your help and guidance, its invaluable!!!

As Conley stated you can make really good power with the stock ECM and other mods. The intercooler is the key. Just ask anyone who is running my kit.

As for the mechanical versus electronic wastegates here's my take:

1) Mechanical is an economical way to go. I tend to reserve this for older trucks that aren't worth maintaining.

2) The OE vacuum system can be trouble prone, but really doesn't cost that much to replace the parts that fail (solenoid= $30) and a little PM like spraying WD-40 in the tube at each oil change can go a long way.

As to the functionality, the mechanical device is simply a spring and rod linkage that regulates drive pressure. It is stand alone, and can do no more. It has no brain. It can be set to hold xx psi. and that is it. When you stomp it and the drive psi spikes, this energy is lost.

The Electronic/vacuum system can apply much greater "pressures" to the wastegate. This can harvest more of the exhaust heat energy and use it to your advantage.

[DieselDavy]

John Posted:
"2) The OE vacuum system can be trouble prone, but really doesn't cost that much to replace the parts that fail (solenoid= $30) and a little PM like spraying WD-40 in the tube at each oil change can go a long way."

John,
Could you elaborate on this? I'd like to spray it, but I don't know where or what 'it' is!
Dave

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

"...I am slightly confused on the issue of the turbo modification. Is it better to simply add the electronic modification to that of the mechanical one as I have indicated? or is it preferable to do both?" You would do one or the other - they're two different ways of achieving the same function, wastegate control. JK has at least one (I think now many) program changes available to modify how th PCM controls the wastegate; Bill Heath sells a mechanical wastegate control which replaces the PCM's control of the wastegate with a simple spring-loaded device.

Blessings!

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
Kinda getting away from the original post...but....

Boost is commonly refered to as the amount of intake airpreasure generated by the turbo. The turbo uses exhaust gas preasure/thermal energy to spin a fan and increase boost. The amount of exhaust gas/thermal energy is controled by a waist gate. A waist gate is an exhaust route control valve. This valve is comonly controled by either a vacum operated soliniod or a mechanical spring/rod assembly. Diesels don't generate enough(if any) vacum so we have to have a vac pump.
The mechanical waist gate control is commonly refered to as a Turbomaster because Bill Heath marketed a very good mechanical controler under that name. People have made there own or copied his without many problems. A mechanical control like this can eliminate the need for a vac pump. One less driven(maybe2-5hp) accessory, one less thing to break, Keep It Simple Stupid theory. Boost curve is very constant and does not vary with ecm input.
The stock vacum sysstem is controled by the ECM. As long as the vac system is healthy, the ECM can control the amount of boost it thinks the engine needs for a given job. It can look at other input from the engine and adjust the boost accordingly. JK makes an electronic boost controler that fits in line with ECM input and allows for the owner to control the maximum amount of boost and still retain the factory system. This type of controller is sometimes called a "boost fooler" It has also been duplicted by home mechanics but requires a little more electrcal knowlegde.

I have used both systems and would be happy with either. If I had a stock system and and my Vac pump just happened to go bad then I would put in a Turbomaster. If everything was healthy I would put in a JK electrical and keep the stock ECM.

If it were MY truck, (THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION!!!!) in your circumstances I would probably go with the JK electric control, INTERCOOLER, and big open exhaust. Keep the factory ECM and replace the injectors with good stock or high pops. STAY away from some of the fly-by-night injector builders.
I know that if any of my info is ioncorrect I will be corrected in short order!

Hope this helps...
L8r
Conley

[Kennedy]

John Posted:
"2) The OE vacuum system can be trouble prone, but really doesn't cost that much to replace the parts that fail (solenoid= $30) and a little PM like spraying WD-40 in the tube at each oil change can go a long way."

John,
Could you elaborate on this? I'd like to spray it, but I don't know where or what 'it' is!
Dave


With the engine idling I pull the vacuum hose off of the wastegate actuator and squirt WD-40 into it for a couple of seconds.

[rtphillips370]

Thanks for the info everybody!!! I learned a few things this time around. I will most likely go with Kennedy's electronic boost contoller then.

Now with all of the modifications I am looking at should I be concerned with any other possible problems etc? I have heard locally about a few owners breaking crankshafts and crank bearing journals...

[garre1tt]

My first chip was a 80hp. I went for the whole package in the 95. Guages, cooling package, air intake, the whole thing. It ran great before I started and expected great increases.

The last thing I installed was the chip. Wanted to make sure the truck was ready.
Started throwing codes after about a month of short driving. The new chip found every week point in the truck. I truly can't blame the chip for the falts in the truck but for the 80HP chip to work in the truck the truck has to be able to run with an exta 80hp.
After fixing all the codes I still had to replace it with a different chip.

I have been real happy with my 40Hp chip. Pulled alot of miles and pass some folks now and then.
Michael D

[ECMProgrammer]

I am saving my pennies for the Kennedy Intercooler on his website for my beast ;) other than the ecm will be the biggest portion of my investment this year.

Pardon the repetition as I am learning, but after more reading I am slightly confused on the issue of the turbo modification. Is it better to simply add the electronic modification to that of the mechanical one as I have indicated? or is it preferable to do both? Thank you ahead of time to all of you for your help and guidance, its invaluable!!!

I don't even have any controls on my turbo (contrary to every opinion here), and have no wastegate control. Ran it for two years that way--no issues, no problems. Now that I run a Duramax every day, I just use my 1998 6.5TD for development work...hope that answers your questions...but it won't work if you run a stock ECU or stock Chip...

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage
1-888-WESTER-1

[Kennedy]

I don't even have any controls on my turbo (contrary to every opinion here), and have no wastegate control. Ran it for two years that way--no issues, no problems. Now that I run a Duramax every day, I just use my 1998 6.5TD for development work...hope that answers your questions...but it won't work if you run a stock ECU or stock Chip...

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage
1-888-WESTER-1


...Or most anybody else's program as most aren't smart enough to defeat the codes associated with high boost levels of a defeated wastegate.

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

"I don't even have any controls on my turbo (contrary to every opinion here)..." Have you installed a non-wastegated turbo? If you have a factory turbo, you have a wastegate control, even if it's a piece of wire or a rod.

I'm asking because I'm curious, not because I think I know more about your rig (or anything else, for that matter) than you do.

Thanks & Blessings!

[jon6.5]

Good Day!

"I don't even have any controls on my turbo (contrary to every opinion here)..." Have you installed a non-wastegated turbo? If you have a factory turbo, you have a wastegate control, even if it's a piece of wire or a rod.

I'm asking because I'm curious, not because I think I know more about your rig (or anything else, for that matter) than you do.

Thanks & Blessings!
well i have done somthing quite similar i simply locked up the waste gate so it allows for max boost, and for all you about to start a freak parade about how bad this is please keep it down. every person has there own ideas and this one has worked great for me i ran about 12 lb of boost and after the exahust i get 18lb of boost with no problems, But i am a tame driver so 10lb of boost is the max it usually gets to. if you are intrested in this i will send you a pic of what i did.

[ECMProgrammer]

It's not a bad thing at all--the highest EGT's you'll ever see is when the wastegate is open--not closed. I've had mine locked for more than enough time...

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage
1-888-WESTER-1

[Bnave95]

Don't pull any type of load with a locked down waste gate.;)

[mafrazer1]

..... locked up the waste gate so it allows for max boost, .....this one has worked great for me i ran about 12 lb of boost and after the exahust i get 18lb of boost with no problems, But i am a tame driver so 10lb of boost is the max it usually gets to. if you are intrested in this i will send you a pic of what i did.

Is this mod reversible? I would like to try it, and monitor boost & egt.
If it causes problems in my '97 sub, it would be put back to normal.
Please send pix. Thanks in advance.

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

"Have you installed a non-wastegated turbo? If you have a factory turbo, you have a wastegate control, even if it's a piece of wire or a rod. I'm asking because I'm curious, not because I think I know more about your rig (or anything else, for that matter) than you do." I'd still be grateful for answer.

I drove my 95 pickup this way for over a year. I was only developing maybe 6 PSI max boost - I had NO IDEA what I was doing in those days, but it saved me buying a wastegate actuator.




Blessings!
(signature in previous post)

[Bnave95]

Good Day!

I drove my 95 pickup this way for over a year. I was only developing maybe 6 PSI max boost - I had NO IDEA what I was doing in those days, but it saved me buying a wastegate actual


Blessings!
(signature in previous post)



Yes,I can see that on your truck. The Turbo Master will always keep waste gate close as if it were wired closed.
It takes a good pull to get up to 12psi. Your truck would be lite though my truck is like 7600lbs and it's not to hard to get up to 12 lbs of boost though I would be needing to accel hard to get it to that point. Most I see is 10psi. and at 60-65 7lbs would be top.
Hit a good grade and the Turbo Master will be used.Spike at 12lbs.
If you want good mileage use the boost gauge when taking off.
As we all know with out a intercooler any thing above 12lbs boost the air is heated alot. Even at a 12lbs boost pull for a long time on my truck with out a intercooler my IAT gauge heats up to much,but thats what the water for.
To a point.
Wired waste gate does no harm if you drive by boost gage. A spike of 18 lbs. won't do any (much) harm but I would not stay there. No reason for that kind of boost on our Eng. anyway.

[JohnC]

Are we talking stock turbo here? I'd think that holding the wastegate closed under high fuel/heavy loads would cause a lot of unnecessary back pressure with no benefit. No?

[autocrosser]

I pull a 11,000lb boat with my 96 6.5. It has the Kennedy exhaust, Heath turbo control and their reprogramed ECU, No I/C as I don't have the 7200lb rated frame which won't allow me to install a good intercoller. I run 12lbs of boost. On relatively flat land and some hills on the interstate I don't have any problem. I think it's pretty well tapped out as far as comfortable pulling goes with the 11k boat. The EGT never goes over about 850-900 pulling my camper or the boat. It's a world of difference from the completely stock truck I started with. There's one hill on the interstate that I couldn't get over 25mph going up with the 7500lb camper and now I can take it at 60 (speed limit). I forgot the fan has been tweeked to come on at 200 so it never goes to 220 before it comes on.

[Bnave95]

Are we talking stock turbo here? I'd think that holding the wastegate closed under high fuel/heavy loads would cause a lot of unnecessary back pressure with no benefit. No?
Yes stock turbo. When I needed to wire the waste gate so I would have boost, I would travel the interstate at 70mph. 2250rpm 8lbs of boost.
Cruse control on. Come to a small grade,boost is 10lbs. The grade is long and does not look like I'm going up hill till I look in the rear view mirror and boost has hit 15lbs.+ Gauge limit.
Get into the right rpm's area and you can boost 15+ lbs. Get into a higher rpm around 2300 + and you won't boost that high even with no waste gate control.
This is how my truck acts or did act before the Turbo-Master.

[ECMProgrammer]

Don't pull any type of load with a locked down waste gate.;)

I guess I shouldn't have pulled a trailer through the mountains, or raced a couple Dodge trucks through the pass ! You're relying on old information that isn't true.
What raises EGT's ? Fuel--or lack of airflow ?

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage
1-888-WESTER-1

[AndyL]

I guess I shouldn't have pulled a trailer through the mountains, or raced a couple Dodge trucks through the pass ! You're relying on old information that isn't true.
What raises EGT's ? Fuel--or lack of airflow ?

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage
1-888-WESTER-1

Lyndon, how much boost did you see while lugging through the mountains with the closed wastegate? Was it maxed at ~83mm3? GM4 Turbo?

[1999GMC]

I have hit 21 PSI with stock turbo and Kennedy boost fooler.

[Bnave95]

I guess I shouldn't have pulled a trailer through the mountains, or raced a couple Dodge trucks through the pass ! You're relying on old information that isn't true.
What raises EGT's ? Fuel--or lack of airflow ?

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage
1-888-WESTER-1
I know this one,Both:D

[ECMProgrammer]

Good answer.;)

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage
1-888-WESTER-1

[jon6.5]

i have pulled large loads with the gate tied up but i am carful not to let the boost over 12. So long as i do that i am safe correct?

[65TD]

Seems to be the feeling that if EGT's are in check your good to go.

Think about high compression numbers, 21 to 1 compression at 14.7 psi add 15 psi boost your compression is over 600 psi.

[ECMProgrammer]

Combustion cylinder pressures are really much higher than that...closer to 14-15 MPa or over 2100 PSI at peak injection timing and torque. Tractor units on the highway commonly hit over 45 PSI.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage
1-888-WESTER-1

[65TD]

boost psi + 14.7 * compression ratio

It seems that the combustion pressure is going to increase with the amount of air pressure in.

Higher boost engines are running much lower compression.


That being said a three stage screw compressor has the heads bolted and bracketed down. It can still blow them off.