Timing Chain Replacement $$$

[gvt]

I'm at 166,000 miles, truck is running fine but seems a little down on power and mileage. I'm considering a new timing chain and possibly injectors. Injectors will be pop-tested next week. Does $175 parts and $580 labor seem reasonable for a timing chain replacement? Seems a little high to me. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[More Power]

The parts & labor sound about right. For less cost than that, you could install a DSG Phaser gear drive - if you do the work yourself. I'd also replace the water pump using the newer hi-cap pump, coolant crossover and dual thermostats.

Jim

[George Schweikle]

gvt,

What's a "Pop Test"? Is this a dealer or Diesel service center diagnostic procedure?.

I have 111,000 miles on my 6.5TD motorhome, am reading the good information in this great forum as fast as I can, but have not come across this term. All information appreciated...


I'm at 166,000 miles, truck is running fine but seems a little down on power and mileage. I'm considering a new timing chain and possibly injectors. Injectors will be pop-tested next week. Does $175 parts and $580 labor seem reasonable for a timing chain replacement? Seems a little high to me. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[DmaxMaverick]

A "pop test" is a bench test of the injectors.

At 166K (or 111K, for that matter), I wouldn't bother with it. Just replace them, and put the money you would have spent on the test toward the purchase. 100-150K is a normal life's end for OEM injectors. They might test OK, but they won't last much longer than that. With those miles, if only one fails, they all need to be replaced or the engine will never be "balanced". The odds are that at least one won't pass the test. Also, mismatched injectors places additional harmonic stress on the IP.

[gvt]

Thanks for the insight guys, I do appreciate it. Probably no reason to test the injectors at this point. I think I'll start there and do the timing chain in a few months. The timing chain is probably more than I would tackle myself. Thanks again!

[DmaxMaverick]

If you can do injectors, you can do a timing chain. It is not difficult, just time consuming. The parts aren't expensive (relatively), which is why a shop job will be 75% labor. The only "special" tool you will need is a balancer puller, and you can buy those cheap at any parts store.

[rustyk]

I'm with the group that endorses the Phazer gear drive. I've got a brand-new engine on the way, with the Phazer installed at Peninsular Engines.

[Robyn]

The pop test is a bench test where the injector is hooked up to a hand pump that delivers a non flamable fluid to the injector.

They pump the pressure up untill the injector allows the fluid to pass and spray out (POP) and they note the reading on a pressure gauge.
Also they look at the spray pattern, if the pattern is somewhat conical and is a fine mist and the pressures are in spec the unit is good to go.
Also they look for dribbling, this can happen before or after the injector pops.
Its a bad thing and causes isues that we wont go into here,this is in short the explantion of the POP test.

As was mentioned at those miles just screw in some new ones because the old ones most likely are not going to be doing well.
Unless there are special circumstances the squirts should be replaced as a set to keep good cylinder ballance.

** Just a note here**

If you get a lot of difference in the cylinders as far as the injectors pop pressure and pattern it will result in quite a range of different power pulses as the cylinders fire in sequence.

I am of the opinion that this situation can and does result in a lot of unwanted torsional vibration that sets up in the crank shaft and on down the drive train.
I believe this because I have personally replaced injectors and such and had a rig that had a lot of vibration during a hard pull just poof, be nice and smooth with nothing more than a change of the injectors.

The timing chain work is not hard as was mentioned it's about 4 hours of leaning over the front end.
If you drain the coolant, remove the radiator and shroud and then all of the accessories (dont unhook the ac lines) you can get plenty of room to work.
You will need to pull the Vibration dampener.
Lay all the bolts out in a pattern if you need to to keep things in order.
The timing marks are pretty simple too.
The timing chain drives the cam and a set of gears drive the IP.
Align the timing marks on the sprockets just like a small block then rotate the gear drive up and align the IP drive gear marks.

Recently I rebuilt a 94 6.5 and all I replaced was the chain as the sprockets showed hardly any wear at all. (200K+ miles)
You can save a BUTTLOAD of $$$$ if you do it yourself.
As was mentioned now would be a great time to replace the water pump and do some upgrades.
If the wallet can stand it the gear drive is way kewl and a good investment but if $$$ are tight just a chain may well do all that is needed.,

Be sure to use a gasket between the timing cover and the block, originally these engines did not have one, only some brown sealer and they will leak if you dont seal them well.

The gasket kit comes with a water pump gasket as well as the timing cover set and many will have the crank shaft seal too. (USE IT)
Also will be the front pan piece generally made of a cork compound.

Use black high temp RTV on both sides of all gaskets and carefully install.
use a little extra goop on the cork pan piece in the corners to prevent oil leaks. ( DONT UNDO THE PAN OTHER THAN THE FRONT BOLTS IN THE COVER)
The pan is sealed to the block with RTV and any manipulation here can result in oil leaks and then you are looking at a pan removal.
Be sure you clean all surfaces so they dont have any old sealers, RTV or crud and wipe down with brake clean just before assembly so the RTV will stick well.

The timing cover is dowel located so its a no brainer.
You can't screw up the IP indexing as the pump should have a line up pin that goes through a slot in the gear.

Good luck and keep us posted.
Robyn

[gvt]

My goal is to get another 100,000 miles out of the truck. That is my reasoning for considering a chain instead of gears, I just can't justify the additional cost. If I were rebuilding I'd definately go with gears. As far as the install goes, it's just a little more than I am willing to tackle by myself. An unheated garage in Minnesota in December doesn't help either!!! I'll just have the injectors installed, no test.

My biggest concern right now is cold winter starts. Right now I know there are a few glow plugs out because it smokes like mad after cold starts. That's really annoying in a garage that's attached to the house!! Also, the truck sits outside during the day, so cold starting reliability is a factor. It always starts, but not quite as easily as it used to. I also do quite a bit of ice fishing with the kids and I don't want to get stranded in the middle of lake Mille Lacs!!!

Hopefully the injectors and glow plugs help with the starting/smoke and the mileage. If it still needs help, I'll probably replace the timing chain.

Is there an easy way to check/measure chain slack??? Thanks again

[DmaxMaverick]

......Hopefully the injectors and glow plugs help with the starting/smoke and the mileage. If it still needs help, I'll probably replace the timing chain.

Is there an easy way to check/measure chain slack??? Thanks again

Yes. While you have your injectors/plugs out (easier engine rotation), remove the oil filler pipe. Put a breaker bar/socket on the crank bolt and rotate it to TDC, 0

[Robyn]

Well now I can relate to what you are saying.
Get whoever does the injectors and glow sticks to check the timing with an instrument and bump it up a little to compensate for the wear if it need it.

Another thing that happens is the advance piston in the IP wears and will have negative effect on the cold starts as well as the overall running.
Be sure your lifrt pump is working well and not loafing. A lift pump thats not working right will cause a loss of positive case pressure in the IP which translates to poor advance and overall poor running.

Robyn

[gvt]

I ended getting a new set if injectors installed along with 4 new glow plugs and it starts immediately with no smoke. The mileage seems to have picked up a little, although I'll need more miles to confirm. I also found that my block heater cord was shorted! Thanks again for the input!!!