ULSD, biodiesel and Standyne additives

[Mark Rinker]

A good read found on the Stanadyne website.

http://www.stanadyne.com/new/ppt/showfile.asp?id=3437

[Hubert]

So according to Stanadyne:

Either B5 (5% biofuel mix to 95% refined from crude)

OR

Ultra low sulfur diesel (100% refined from crude oil) + Stanadyne performance formula

Are both recommended instead of just good quality ULSD truck stop fuel.

----------------------------

I read the blurb about ULSD not as stable as 500PPM diesel. What is the expectancy of either diesel fuels? I had thought diesel lasts a long long time (years and years ???).

[Robyn]

ULSD is the result of special interest groups that could care less about your investment or for that matter that of the entire country.
These groups are worried about the environment and the money that crying global warming brings to their coffers.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with the 500PPM green stuff we have had. As far as that goes the stuff that is now colored purple and used as off road fuel was fine too. The engines loved it and the components lasted well too.
The ULSD is just another way to scew us.
The big diesels (CAT, CUMMINS, DETROIT) are starting to see injector issues with the ULSD.
It did not take too long either. Injector sticking leading to cam failures in low mile engines.
Yup they really did us a favor.
Overall this will cost the trucking industry millions me thinks just by what I have heard from the local truck shops.
Why do we have to spend our hard earned $$$ to buy a fuel additive to fix something that should not need fixing. The fuel for the most part should not need additives.
Your government is here to help you !!! NOT

As usual
Robyn

[rjwest]

I predict that when the automotive industry reaches '0' emissions, a study will determine emmisions is good for the planet, and millions will be spent putting the 'so called'
pollution back .

After all, does anyone ever think the EPA will be out of a job.

[Robyn]

Long before man ever cranked up the first coal fired locomotive or dumped petrol in a model T or lit a coal oil lamp we had emissions here on planet earth.
The were comprised of smoke from forest fires made bu O'll lady nature, sulfur dioxide from the local backyard volcano and such other things as pine trees and animal farts (methane)
Hmmm seems that the EPA will never be out of a job. Once man has been rendered all but extict by emissions laws the EPA can regulate chipmunk diets to reduce flatulence due to chipmunks consuming beans.
YUP here we go again.

[RT]

I have no problem at all with ULSD, so far.... I have 3 diesel vehicles and they all run better on the ULSD than on the old fuel. Smoother, less smoke, etc. The 500ppm fuel will damage the "euro" style clean diesels emissions systems so they could not be sold here. Now that ULSD is mandated there are quite a few manufacturers tooling up to offer passenger vehicles with powerful, clean diesel engines. This is a good thing. Or would you rather drive a Hybrid???

Regarding the effects of ULSD on "big truck" diesels. The manufacturers have known about the impending implementation of ULSD for years. Somehow the europeans have figured it out and their diesels seem to run fine on fuel thats even cleaner that our current ULSD. If we are one of the biggest most powerful nations we should be able to figure this out?

Previous to ULSD implementation the diesel fuel quality varied greatly. Sometimes the fuel was great, high cetane, etc. Sometimes it was cat pee that smoked, produced poor mpgs, etc. ULSD is mandated to be of a fixed quality. It is a better quality fuel, period.

I like Stanadyne. They made my IP. They make a quality additive. They also have something to sell. Funny how their website says things like "Fortunately Stanadyne makes and additive blah, blah, blah.... Some of this is hype. Gimme a break. Adding a little lubricity is as simple as putting a little 30weight oil or 2-cycle oil or any other additive from Howes, PS, Fuel Power, etc. Its easy to do. Its very cheap. They removed lead from gasoline years ago and people when nuts. A little lead additive or hardened valveseats cured that problem.

Biodiesel is good stuff too. I have been running B20 blend almost exclusively until two months ago when I switched to ULSD because of convienience. No issues with either.

RT

[Robyn]

What I have a complaint about is not that the stuff may or may not be good, its the fact that we are going to get it and any costs that go with it whether we want it or not.
The diesel engine itself could care less what you dump in the tank, its the IP and or the injectors.
If the engine is designed for it fine but I have several that were not. Most likely the Gm's will do fine with it. I am a little concerned about the Cat though as its a 95 model.
I just resent the government backed special interest groups shoving this stuff down our throats.
Maybe its great maybe its not, time will tell. At any rate maybe I dont want it!! but nobody ever asked and I dont seem to get a choice.
If its not ok and it causes failures you can be sure the government backed special interest groups wont be sending out a check to cover the repair costs.
Why not moderation and consideration for those whos back breaking labor built this country and keep it going day by day.
Was 500ppm diesel so bad, if the Europeans like it let them run it. I dont drive a European car so should I really worry if the 500 PPM stuff ruins the emission control equipment??
I drive Good old GM rigs that will run on the purple stuff if you feed it to them.
Simple things that work well excite me to no end.
If I come out and the wind is howling and the snow is blowing I want reliability and I want it right now. I really dont care much at that point if the exhaust makes a black spot on the snow I just want the sucker to go.
I recently looked over my fuel cost analysis for the last several years.
The cost of operating my trucking company has spiraled out of reason and its solely because of two things, insurance and fuel costs.
Is the new improved ULSD going to save me any $$$ or make my bank account grow a little. I doubt it seriously.
Is this new juice going to reduce my maintenance costs? I doubt that too.
Moderation is the key and it needs to be implemented soon or we are all going to be in a world of hurt.
I fail to see the goal of this techno spiral we have gotten into.
So we now have ULSD what next?
Lets find a good landing spot and settle there untill there is a really good reason to move on.
Just because we could does not always mean we should.
I dont want to be like the Amish and stay in the 1880's but this techno spiral seems to have no end and my wallet cant stand much more of it.
For every advancement we make in technology the consumer pays a terrible price ( As far as cars go) the time spent getting things fixed increases while the reliability decreases.

Having grown up in the 50's and 60's I have seen some very neat advancements in automobiles up to the late 70's then the 80's were trash for the most part. The 90's spawned the computer era in force (some 80's had them) and we have seen the spiral wind tighter and tighter.
The fact is we will never see a really clean fuel that is affordable, there is just no profit for big business in that.
Just my ramblings.
My desire is not to provoke hate and discontent but instead provoke thought and debate that may help in the long run solve issues of great importance.

The usual
Robyn

[rustyk]

This topic has come up on other forums on which I lurk. Sulfur in fuels (like the lead in gaso of the Olden Days) is an excellent lubricant. Its removal lowers the fuels' lubricity.

There are apparently other parts of the USLD formulas that also contribute to the concern. It sounds like some of the heavier ends will be replaced with lighter stock. This does two things:

1. Lighter ends have less energy content per unit of volume than heavier ends, meaning less fuel economy

2. Lighter ends have smaller molecules, meaning less ability to lubricate

What is truly absurd is that the USLD is being (over)sold to the public as a means of introducing low-pollution diesels for passenger cars and (very) light trucks.

I have to wonder what degree of acceptance the public will have, if indeed and car manufacturer actually invest many, many million$ in what will likely become turkeys.

Which means, as Robyn has pointed out, the whole burden of USLD use will fall onto those of us with older diesels.

I was with a major oil company when its "Shell-of-the-Future" low-octane unleaded gasoline was introduced (IIRC, in 1970). It bombed - people and their cars weren't ready for unleaded other than Amoco. Even then additives like tricresyl phosphate were added to improve valve seat endurance.

So, "Here we go again!", solving a problem that may well not exist.

One of my favorite quotes is from Will Rogers: "Thank God we don't get all the government we pay for!"

[RT]

What is truly absurd is that the USLD is being (over)sold to the public as a means of introducing low-pollution diesels for passenger cars and (very) light trucks.

I have to wonder what degree of acceptance the public will have, if indeed and car manufacturer actually invest many, many million$ in what will likely become turkeys.

I will be interesting to see if Americans buy diesels. I think they just might this time. Think of all the diesel truck owners, hey thats us! What if you could get your favorite car with a diesel engine that gets 30% better fuel mileage, has equal or better performance, etc. Given the cost of fuel today, even with diesel more expensive than gasoline the VW Jetta TDI my wife drives STILL costs less to drive than a Honda. Diesels are a better solution to fuel economy than hybrids. There are many reasons that US buyers may switch to diesel, time will tell.

Regarding the "millions" that car manufacturers will have to invest in diesel. They already have! 50% of the cars sold in Europe are diesel. Even the Big Three all have diesel models that are produced for export only. ULSD makes it easy to bring that technology to US consumers as it allows the manufacturers to meet emissions standards without a huge cost increase. If I could get a US made diesel car I may be interested in buying one. Right now I have to stick with what I have, VW and Mercedes.

Hey, I'm no fan of big government either and I am far from a liberal. I do however like clean air and cleaner fuel will help, if only a little. Railing against the EPA and the emissions crap that comes out of Kalifornia is useless. I am a realist. The technology spiral bothers me too, as does the cost increase of new vehicles. Thats why I mostly drive old stuff. I can't afford a new Dmax anyway. I'll take the ULSD and put a little additive in the tank and don't worry. I expect the government to try and cheat me and so I do my best to cheat them. I wish it wasn't that way, but it is. RT