Manual trans, who has one

[Diesel Dan]

Just curious who else is running the NV4500?
When I installed the 6.2(inplace of 6.5) I removed the dual mass flywheel. Used a clutch kit for a '88 V30,6.2,manual trans.

Clutch seems to grab on the low side of the stroke. Could have some air in the system yet, will rebleed when it warms up. One thing I didn't do is check the assembled height from crank surface to diaphram fingers to see if there is a slight difference in the set-up.

Anyone else running a solid flywheel?

[gwaidman]

I run a solid flywheel as well. When I bought my truck I knew it was in need of some trans work. What I didnt know was the cost of the complete dual mass set up! While it is a good system, and for those of us who lead foot with really heavy loads, its worth keeping, I could'nt justify the cost and installed the solid flywheel. There is close to 60k on it with out a glitch, and I do have a 8' camper and bike trailer on it. Just my 2 cents. I dont think you will have any trouble.

[rapidoxidationman]

I've got the NV4500 on my 96 k2500. Last February I had it turned into the single mass flywheel (along with a new clutch, input shaft on the trans. plus a slave cylinder, plus a rear main seal, plus about $1900 cuz the Dual Mass flywheel had lost some bearings and was shaking things apart...
I'm looking forward to a long (200k miles?)life from the new clutch, but I've noticed the grabbing/chattering especially when the truck is hot and I'm just starting in reverse. It doesn't like to be in the half-clutch position. What's to be done? I asked the guy doing the work about a dampener that needed to be installed on the output drive shaft to the rear wheels; he said it didn't need one but I've read posts on this forum that stated otherwise. I'm living with it, but if it is a real concern to you that's probably where I'd start my investigation to solve the problem.
The old clutch was still in great shape with over 120K on it; had the DMF been a better design I'm sure it would've lasted well into 200K.
Regards,
Rapid

[Turbo Al]

My 1993 has a dual mass setup in it (stock) I get about 70,000 miles per clutch -- I do tow and 4X4 alot and it has the 3.42 rear axle ratio. If you look at the two different clutch setups the single mass flywheel setup the clutch has so many spings on it seems to be begging to break a couple.
At 175,000 miles the syco's were replaced -- the only work needed through wear.
Al

[ 01-12-2004, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: Turbo Al ]

[Diesel Dan]

When I was installing the clucth I read something interesting. The instructions refered to the DM flywheel and stated the springs were to dampen the high torque spikes of the diesel. Interesting theroy.

But, the higher torque Cummins that use the same NV4500 use a solid mass flywheel. Shoots a hole in that theroy.

[Turbo Al]

Diesel Dan,
Not sure what kind of clutch the Dodge boys use but Chev uses the Dual mass flywheel with spings in the flywheel and NONE on the clutch OR the solid flywheel with something like 32 spings on the clutch. There has to be spings somewhere (I would hope) to dampen the "spikes".
Anyone out there seen a Dodge clutch??
The NV4500 have the same name but are NOT interchangeable (Dodge to Chev) because of input/output shaft differences and there are gear ratio differences as well. Also Chev changed things around both in the ratio's & set up in mid 1994.
Al

[cruzer]

Haven't seen a clutch.
93-94 GM NV4500 had lower ratios than later models. 95 and later GM & Dodge ratios are the same. Inputs and outputs different. Ref www.high-impact.net (http://www.high-impact.net) Look in general info and specs. for breakdowns and differences.FYI

[Diesel Dan]

Turbo Al,
I do have a complete '96 Cummins on the floor in the garage. It is now setup for manual trans. It does have a solid flywheel, no springs. The flywheel came from a '99 motor.

As far as NV4500s go. This was a stumbling point on my CTD swap into my '93. The early GM 4500s use a small input, and lower first, than the '95-96+ years. I could not use a Dodge input without boring out the hole for the input retainer and upgrading to the larger mainshaft and internals. If it had been the later moder I could have used the dodge input shaft and retainer. As it was I looking into getting a Dodge case and having a GM output and adapter installed--the internals do interchange. That is according to the trans shop.

So far my trans has 228K on it and appears all original. Syncros are a little sticky when cold, even with Royal Purple. I would like to try a NV5600 someday. Maybe I should just save some $$ for another swap and just buy a NV5600?
Anyone have a crewcab shortbed that needs a motor :D ?

[Turbo Al]

Cruzer, That is one of the more informative sites I have seen in a while -- a few more:
www.advanceadapters.com (http://www.advanceadapters.com)
www.newventuregear.com (http://www.newventuregear.com)
www.jbconversions.com (http://www.jbconversions.com)
It also notes the change in setup in 96 to the internal slave cyl. The ratio's are the same as what was used in Dodge model but the input shaft is both longer and bigger -- the only spec mentioned is the pilot dia.-- so the rest (of sizes) would have to be checked out. It is interesting that they both retain the same clutch spline so if the clutch configureation was the same they may be interchangeable. Also didn't know that they changed the case size in 96 although there is so much room under there it probably doesn't matter.

Diesel Dan,
Does the Dodge clutch have spings in it? If so how many?
A note to you on the website Cruzer pointed out www.high-impact.com (http://www.high-impact.com) is the following statement

Swapping Input Shafts
In some conversions, a Dodge input shaft is used in a GM tran, or vice versa. When we supply the correct input shaft in it for the application. If you already have the trans, and need to change the input shaft this can esily be done from the front of the unit and Does NOT require major disassembly of the trans.
It goes on to the the procedure to check end play .
My NV4500 has 180,000 miles on it and as I said the syc's were replaced, I didn't even notice how hard it was getting to shift it untill the new sycro's were in.
Al

[Diesel Dan]

Turbo Al,

On the CTD, the clutch disc does have torsional dampening springs. It has 5 of them.

I would rather have them in the disc than the flywheel. Much cheaper to repair when they fail.

[Jim P]

My truck is a 95 and it has a nv4500. I know that the flywheel was changed before I bought it but I do not know if it had a dual mass or the solid originally. It has the solid flywheel now. The clutch has springs in the hub but I am not certain how many. I was thinking 6 but it may be a few more or less. I do know that it does not have 32 springs. The flywheel and clutch was changed by a dealer but I am not sure if they used the proper clutch for a solid flywheel.

The truck has a 4:10 rear end and reverse is very slow. If I rev it up a little in reverse, it tries to give me whiplash when I let off the throttle. If I really rev it up in reverse, it will slide the tires when I let off the throttle. So maybe it needs the clutch with more springs to take up some of the shock.

[Turbo Al]

Jim P if it has 6 then it most likely has 12 for some reason they like to put spings within spings. It has been a while since I saw the single mass flywheel setup (two years) but I was dumbfounded by the amount of springs within springs they had on the clutch.

Diesel Dan,
So true at this point I have not found anyone that will rebuild the dual mass flywheels but I have 100,000 miles on one (still good) and 80,000 miles on an aftermarket one (still in truck) and no problems so far. The original was changed out because of vibration which turned out to be something else.
You must also remember we are not comparing apples to apples here -- Dodge is a inline six while Chev is a V-8 totally different problems with the way vibration is made and transmitted. I would take a 6 anyday over a V-8 when it comes to vibration. I did have my 350 Chevy (gas) balanced and it is a totally different engine now.
Al

[Diesel Dan]

Turbo Al,

Why then did the 6.2 from '82-91 have a solid mass flywheel? The SM465 and NV4500 seem to be similar in over-all strenght.
I don't know what year exactly the started with the dual mass. IIRC the salvage yard said my flywheel was from a '92 6.2L motor.

[Turbo Al]

Diesel Dan,
I don't think Chev had a dual Mass untill 1992 at least not one that I can remember. The first NV4500 came out in 1992.
I will quote J.B. Conversions on the difference in the SM465 and the GM-MT8/MW3 (NV4500):
"The NV4500 cannot be compared to older 4 speed boxes when it comes to engineered performance. We constantly receive questions regarding the NV4500 in comparison to an older NP435 or SM465. Due to large gears and bearings and a thick cast iron case, the old 4 speed boxes have a long, well deserved history of being super durable. In many cases, the NV4500 features larger gears, better bearings, and heavier duty output shafts. The shifting characteristics of the fully synchronized Dodge NV4500 are excellent. Short, crisp shifts ma0ke the NV4500 a luxury to operate compared to the long throw, clunky shifting of earlier 4 speed boxes."

Also the NV4500 is a 5 speed gear box -- actually a 4 speed box with a 5th gear (OD) added on to it.

I actually remember shifting the old 4 speeds and it was almost like fly fishing the throws were so long ;)
AL

[odee]

So which is the better setup for towing. I'm fixing to swap either a 6.2 or 6.5 into my dually that I tow my racecar and jeep with. I'm also hoping to swap a nv4500 into it at the same time. I have a friend that builds clutches he has done them for my drag car for years and my truck. Last one on the gas motor went around hundred thousand and still looked good and worked good.

[Diesel Dan]

I would use the solid mass flywheel. That's my personal preference.

[Turbo Al]

I would use a dual-mass :D that's my preferance, your buddy would be able to whip up a clutch in no time -- it don't need no spings in it. :eek: