Done Caught the FEVER - Sorta'

[rustyk]

I've learned a lot from The Diesel Page denizens - although I've owned several diesel cars and trucks and was in a former life a marine engineer ("You ain't got 40,000SHP, you ain't got nuthin'"), my motorhome is my first encounter with the GM/DD/AMG 6.5L TD.

My '94 Barth ("What the hell is THAT?") is one of the more compact diesel pushers made (28'), and until that year, featured 5.9L Cummins from 160 to 215HP. I have the prototype for the updated coach (which involved increasing basement storage 5X), and Barth then switched from the Cummins to the 6.5L TD. Because the chassis was built in 2/92, the engine is an early, early (another "prototype"?) 6.5.

I expected it would be overburdened by the weight and wind resistance of the coach, and after having it for 12K miles, the original engine became terminal at around 54K. Actually, I could probably have patched it and gone another 30K, but my position is that any repair is far easier in the driveway than on the shoulder of a two-lane road 250 miles from the nearest major town (where I frequently go). Besides, a little extra HP and torque ain't a bad idea...

So StaRV II, my little coach, gets a new engine. After following many threads here, I decided that the new plant would be built by a "boutique" shop, and not a rebuild mill. After considering Kennedy Diesel, Ron Schoolcroft, and Peninsular Engine, I decided on the latter. John and Ron were great to talk to. John's rebuilds use 21:1 pistons, and I wanted 18.1. Ron is booked up, so even though his rebuilds seem to be exceptional, I didn't want to wait, and he uses customers' blocks, and mine is suspect.

Peninsular has my new engine underway, and it'll have:

All new AMG block, heads, and internals
18:1 pistons
Rated at 230 HP (vs 190 for the OEM)
New Stanadyne IP, new hi-pop injectors, and lines
New non-waste-gated turbo (it hits its stride at the RPM I generally run)
Phazer gear drive

I can't say enough in favor of Matt at Peninsular about how easy it's been to configure the new engine, and to work through issues that could have become problems.

Naturally, the final verdict will be "How well does it do?", but I'm pleased so far with the project.

More when my baby gets back on the road...

[More Power]

I think you made a good choice. The AMG blocks cast since 11/2001 saw a 20-25% increase in cylinder block tensile strength due to a new molybdenum enhanced grey iron alloy and other design enhancements. Chromium was added to the cast-iron cylinder head alloy, which adds durability.

If you have a serpentine belt system, be sure to install the hi-cap water pump, along with a good fan/fan-clutch system and radiator. An intercooler (charge air cooler) would be worth the effort if it's in the budget. You could home-brew one for not a lot.

Keep us posted.

Jim

[a5150nut]

Don't forget the Gages! Pyro at least and turbo boost.

[rustyk]

Don't forget the Gages! Pyro at least and turbo boost.

Thanks for the reminder. The pyro's already on the way. Boost on the new engine is physically limited to 12-14 psi max, so EGT is the number to watch, because the turbo will be non-wastegated. With the 18:1 pistons, the boost is much less critical.

[rustyk]

Keep us posted.

Jim

The AMG comes with the 130 gpm water pump (if not, I'll swap it out for the one on the old engine). Already installed John Kennedy's Hi-Flow kit on the old engine.

So far the only irritation with Peninsular is that I was told the engine was almost finished and ready to ship Monday 11/20, just awaiting the Phazer gear drive, which arrived yesterday 11/21, and was to have been installed then, with the engine shipped today 11/22. But when I called Peninsular to get transit info today, I was told there was no engine - that they expected a shipment of new engines Friday 11/24/06. I tracked down My Guy at Peninsular and got an excuse, but I'm very disappointed that they've laid the shuck-and-jive on me.

The charge air cooler may have to wait, while I figure out where I can fit one. My little motorhome is the shortest (28')to have a diesel pusher arrangement; while there's plenty of room to work on the engine, the airflow isn't the same as on a front-engine truck.

There is no fan clutch (being a diesel pusher), and the fan and radiator dwarf those on pickups. Estimates are that the radiator is 2.5X larger and the fan produces at least 2X more airflow.

[Mark Rinker]

"They expected a new shipment of engines..." ??? What do they start with - a bare block, a shortblock, longblock...?

My opinion is that 'situations' arise in all businesses, all the time. Good ones share the hard facts with you - right away. Bad ones lie and cover up the facts.

Tough way to start out a trust relationship required for success in business. Personally, I'd call the owner of Penninsular and let him know of your experience. He needs to know if he has salespeople making commitments that his production line can't meet. Besides, it might come in handy down the road if you ever have an issue with their (now rushed) product.

[rustyk]

Mark, I agree. After a fairly direct conversation I had with the guy there ("I want to know what's going on, and don't want any shuck-and-jive") Peninsular emailed me today, and the issue was (they say) that there was an engine ready to go, but it had the wrong injector pump and injectors on it; at least it was caught in QC. My BS meter hit around 8.5 on that one, but if an engine configured correctly comes out of there, they'll be off the hook.

They get "long" short blocks from AMG - water pump, IP, and injectors installed - no senders, manifolds, turbo, or accessories. They aren't going to rush the production - since my motorhome isn't blocking a vital space at the installer's, he can wait. Peninsular is getting a shipment Friday 11/24.

There's only about 4-5 hours of labor at Peninsular to finish the engine, and they should be able to have it on their truck by Monday. They have regular runs here to Florida, and the installer's only about 10 minutes off the Interstate, so I think all will be well.

If not, I'll board my dogs and fly to Michigan and they'll have me as a "helpmate". Most folks are wise enough to avoid that...I explain that both my parole officer and psychaitrist say I'm not supposed to be disappointed....:rolleyes:

[rustyk]

Peninsular reports the new set of engines is in, and mine will be finished Monday...we'll see.:cool:

[George Schweikle]

Hi rustyk,

I met Matt, from Penninsular Diesel, at the 2006 Safari Trek Convention. He and his assistant seemed very well informed, and they had a couple of their marine 6.5 engines for display. Really good stuff, please be sure to post how your rebuild works out.



Peninsular reports the new set of engines is in, and mine will be finished Monday...we'll see.:cool:

[Mark Rinker]

Sounds like you've handled it well. Best of luck with your new engine!

[rustyk]

George, Matt seems to be very well up on things - I get the impression he's the one that tries to get everything done...and sometimes he doesn't

Mark, things started to seem to come together after my phone call (on his cell phone) - I got updates after that, and I didn't even have to let him know about my Navy nickname...Captain Doom...

[rustyk]

Well, after several renditions of the Texas Two-Step, if looks like my engine (now completed) hits the road later today.

All was finalized 11/17, and the engine was to ship NLT 11/20. But apparently I'm on a different astral plane than Michigan...it was actually not done until 11/27, to be shipped that afternoon. Nope, the carrier picked it up that day, but had no runs until the one starting 12/01 - oh, yeah, the dispatcher at the carrier told me it was rolling to FL 11/27, and that it would be here 11/29.

Although I'm tired of having cheese rubbed on my neck, at least things are progressing...although I wonder if a little Truth Serum wouldn't do Peninsular and Zip Xpress a bit of good. Fortunately, there's still plenty of time to install the engine once it arrives, before I have to hit the road...

[rustyk]

Baby's Home!

We finished up the last major details on StaRV II - and she came home today. I have to do a few hours of work before she's road-ready (fan on the new oil cooler, wire the EGT gage - and a new converter [that's 120VAC to 12VDC - an RV thang]).

The difference between the stock (190HP first-run) and the Peninsular 230HP brand-new engines is noticeable. :p

[Tough Guy]

Fun thread to read!

Sounds like its coming together....keep us informed.

I am surprised you didn't want to sqeeze some more power out of the new V-8.

Chris

[scoobysmak]

Congrats on the new motor, I was thinking of doing the same project once my motor dies. My question is, it cost about $8K to get motor built just above stock performance. For that much I could get a dmax motor and transmission and get it installed for a bit more (maybe quite a bit more, I have not looked into this but I saw a used dmax motor for 3k with the computer and wiring harness). What is the advantage of staying with the 6.5 TD besides the hassel of a rewiring the motor and transmission. I know the dmax they have numerous power upgrades for it plus it puts out way more power to start with. Any input is appreciated.

[rustyk]

I contemplated the Isuzu-designed Duramax, with an Allison, but one issue I have is that the motorhome is a diesel pusher - there's not a whole lot of room between the transmission output shaft and the diffy, and the Duramax/Allison is longer. Further, loaded, the RV is just about at the limits on the rear axle, and more weight (mostly from the Allison) isn't a good idea. Finally, the Peninsular diesel with 18:1 compression, the AMG block, with Peninsular's selection of IP and injectors, should result in an engine with far more longevity than the original...

If it had been practical, I'd have considered a Duramax, but I'm not sure that the Peninsular engine gives up a whole lot. Being a reformed marine engineer, I like simplicity, and simple, the Duramax ain't (and I refer to all the electronics). I would guess that installing a Duramax into an earlier chassis would be a major electrical/electronic headache - but don't listen to me - I tend to avoid avoidable headaches...:D

To refresh, although my Barth is a '94 (the prototype for this updated body design), the chassis was built in early '92, with a late-'91 6.5L TD - which makes it a very early 6.5L. I expected a foreshortened life, since the engine's kind of wimpy and is pushing 8+ tons and a large frontal area constantly - I had hoped to get another 20K from the engine, but it just wasn't to be - and the prior owners were religious about maintenance, so that didn't contribute to any issues.

The Peninsular engine is quieter (Phazer gears might have something to do with that), and even though I haven't stomped it yet (still breaking it in) the power and response difference is evident. And even with the lower compression ratio and with the stock glow plug controller, it has none of the warm start issues of the old engine.

[scoobysmak]

I see your point, my plan would be to drop the ZF-6 speed manual in mine if I did the swap. Everything else I own is a stick, call me a sucker for a headache in traffic. I think this might solve part of my problems with the weight and electronics but may just give me a new ball of wax. I do not think my motor will die soon, and would like to upgrade the power just a bit because I will be towing a 36ft gooseneck trailer ( I took a road test the other day and needless to say on some of the small "hills" in Oklahoma I didn't quite maintain 60mph, kinda embarrasing but it could be worse). I saw another post in here that said "fastest 6.5 in town" but would like to know more on the realiability before I did that.

[rustyk]

Well, StaRV II with the new engine has done 2,500 miles, and fuel economy is up about 15%. Torque is noticeably better. I still have to adjust the throttle position sensor to match the beefier new engine to the tranny (4L80E), but performance has been EGT-limited, so I expect to improve that slightly; switching from an ISS Pro pyrometer to an S-W will be more accurate, as the former shows 150

[a5150nut]

[QUOTE=I explain that both my parole officer and psychaitrist say I'm not supposed to be disappointed....:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

I like that! I find telling people "The voices in my head told me" is another form of motivation............

[big61fourby]

[quote=rustyk]switching from an ISS Pro pyrometer to an S-W will be more accurate, as the former shows 150

[a5150nut]

I see your point, my plan would be to drop the ZF-6 speed manual in mine if I did the swap.

You might want to rethink that idea. I have benn checking and am learning they have quit making that trans and parts support ended with it.

[rustyk]

Do you know the temp range on the thermocouple feeding your Isspro? Might not be rated for anything below 150*, so changing gages might not make any difference...

I got a very good deal, price-wise, on the ISSPro - and it was available on the short notice I had. I now have the S-W in hand - I like the stainless exhaust fittings (as opposed to the brass on the ISSPro), and the gage is easier to read where I've located it. I've always liked S-W...now awaiting S-W's response to specs for lead wires, as my run is 25' and their standards are 7' and 15'.

You may be right, that the ISSPro is fine, but I feel better with S-Ws as I've used them for over forty years.

As far as a transmission swap, the 4L80E (HD reman) stays, as the extra torque when the converter unlocks makes driving much more pleasant - plus parts are readily available even in some of the remote places I go.