6.2/6.5 Fluidampr?

[More Power]

Good news! Had a discussion with the folks from Fluidamper while at SEMA. They are said to be developing a damper for the 6.2/6.5... :)

Cost will be $400-450, but will be a one-time purchase. They don't wear out or deteriorate over time like the rubber elastomer OE versions. I'll post more once the info is assembled...

Jim

[DA BIG ONE]

I'll be doing the t-chain sometime in near future so this is good news to me!

[signgrafix]

I thought it was already out and available. is it?

[john8662]

I've seen the "prototype" plastic mock-up version. Still some bugs to work out, but they're definitly making one.

J

[trbankii]

If you check on their website under "Duramax" there has been a part number listed for the 6.5 as well - http://www.fluidampr.com/DURAMAX.htm

[More Power]

According to the seemingly knowledgeable fellow I spoke with in LV, the 6.5 damper isn't quite ready for prime time, but is close.

I was interested in their findings that the performance crowd routinely sees elastomer OE type damper failures on competition engines. Seems the increased stresses exact a toll on OE dampers, but the Fluidamper is unaffected on those same engines. Is it worth the asking price for use on a daily driver?

Jim

[More Power]

The 6.5L Fluidamper is now available. As mentioned earlier in this thread, I spent some time with the FD folks while at the SEMA show last fall. As a followup, I contacted them recently to learn how things were progressing.

In a phone conversation with Dan Oddy (lead design engineer for the 6.5L damper), I learned that the 6.5L damper was a unique design, and was not based on another of their product line. The external balance and other features are unique. While he didn’t go into too much detail, I was told that there are a series of equations that FD uses to define the mechanical properties of any fluid damper, and their FD damper used on the 6.5L is no exception. They measure factors like crankshaft weight & inertia and others to help solve the equation. Obviously, using a damper designed for another engine wouldn’t work, due to all of the various factors not matching.

Dan mentioned that he was well aware of the problem some owners have had regarding the 6.5L cast iron crankshaft, and he said their damper should reduce the breakage.

I was told that on a stock 6.5L application, we should be able to measure approximately 5% additional horsepower and torque – when using their fluid damper. This is so because the many and varied orders of harmonics present in a crankshaft during operation are more effectively dealt with in an FD damper, where a rubber isolated damper only helps control harmonics over a more narrow range. Harmonics can counter the force applied by a particular rod and piston while in operation. Reduce or eliminate those harmonics, and you get a small bump in hp/tq.

I was also told that Jamie Avant of The Diesel Depot in Georgia and John Ayre of Dyna Droit diesel are evaluating production samples.

Jim Bigley

[dieseldummy]

I've heard both good and bad about the FD. John @ dyna droit swears that on his Dmax it idles smoother and helps quiet the engine down. I've never talked to anyone that actually has installed the FD on a 6.5 though.

[Rhinopkc]

[QUOTE=More Power]
[FONT=Verdana]I was told that on a stock 6.5L application, we should be able to measure approximately 5% additional horsepower and torque

[More Power]

I didn't ask them to prove the power increase. However, I did look around on their web site, but didn't see any dyno charts... Lots of other interesting info though.

On a stock 160 rwhp 6.5, the stated benefit should be about 8 hp (give or take) if their claim is correct. It's likely several 6.5 owners (or other interested parties) will independently verify that claim. Trust but verify... ;)

Jim

[Fluidampr]

I've heard both good and bad about the FD. John @ dyna droit swears that on his Dmax it idles smoother and helps quiet the engine down. I've never talked to anyone that actually has installed the FD on a 6.5 though.

I have a few quotes of people who have installed our damper for the 6.2L / 6.5L engine:

"After seeing/hearing about the broken cranks etc and seeing that my balancers rubber was coming apart, I bit the $450 US bullet and bought one. Some say not needed but after putting it on, I can say, YES, it needs it.
First impressions, cranking over sounds different then when it catchs, the engine has a whole new sound to it, its more duller, less metallic and much smoother. My new exhaust would vibrate at idle, not anymore. Rev it up, again, soooooo much smoother and my engine mounts should be changed also so this is great.
Driving, again, the smoothness is uncanny, my exhaust has shut down, the drone is gone by aprox 80%, its like driving a Cadillac and yes, the engine has a different tone.
It seems to have a tad more power and this is after driving my Jimmy for a week or so, its also revs up alot faster.
When I get 5 mins, I will look at the belts to see if the whip action is reduced, I don't have the adapter that GM put on to reduce that.
So, all in all, I feel this should be one of the first mods we ever do."

"yes the damper imo is a true part to get with your rebuild or even later never to soon. i have these on 2 of my trucks now and will be ordering one for my newest member there is a true testimate to these."

"I just love the fluidampr on my 6.2. it made a major difference in noise and vibration."

With their permission if you want to PM me I can give you their email addresses if you would like to contact the them directly.

Jim, I will be emailing you some more technical information as soon as I can.

Thanks.
Dan

[More Power]

Dan, Thanks for posting. :)

Many of us here are enthusiasts, and we know the 6.5 needs help in certain areas. We're interested in solving problems, and we're especially interested in ideas or products that improve durability.

Jim

[john8662]

Lemme get this straight...

6.2L application? Does this come with a spacer for the crank because the 6.5 balancer typically has the shorter shank because of the reluctor wheel?

Curious as always, If it's truely smooth, this would be great for the 6.2.

J

[Craig M]

I am with the previous poster. Stating 5% is nice, but provide some test data. If it took that much engineering to design the damper, you would surely test an engine or two before and after the installation. Testimonials are nice, but hard data is better!

[DmaxMaverick]

I am with the previous poster. Stating 5% is nice, but provide some test data. If it took that much engineering to design the damper, you would surely test an engine or two before and after the installation. Testimonials are nice, but hard data is better!

I don't think HP/TQ testing is worth the cost and time. Dyno plots are subjective, anyway. Any power gains to be had will be a bonus, if even realized. The focus of the design is functionality. If a power gain is there, consider it a perk. It doesn't appear they are using it as a selling point. A 5% gain is not going to justify the cost of this product, but it does indicate a balanced engine operates more efficiently, which is not news. I seriously doubt anyone will demand a refund because they didn't get their 5%, which was never promised in the first place.

[Craig M]

Jims post was that Dan Oddy of Fluiddamper made the 5% statement. For Dan to make that public statement, to a know diesel admistrator, to me means he should have some data to back it up. Dan mentioned in his testimonial post that he is going to get some data. Dan brough it up, now its time for him to show it. 5% is not much, but that and a smother engine might sell a few of them.

[More Power]

Craig, Actually, IIRC my conversation with Dan went something like this:

Jim to Dan: I remember seeing some FD information while at SEMA that mentioned a small increase in power after installing the FD.

Dan to Jim: Yes, on a stock diesel, we typically see on the order of a 5% increase. That percentage can change, depending on how modified the engine might be.


The power increase discussion was a very minor point in our conversation. I am primarily concerned with whether the FD can reduce the crank failures we hear about. I know from reading a lot about crankshaft harmonics that if a product can reduce the amplitude of those harmonics, it should be a good thing. That's my main interest. If we also see a small bump in power, as DmaxMaverick mentioned, that's just a bonus - not a major selling point. There are less expensive ways to get 5% more power.

But, as mentioned earlier, we/someone will try to verify the power gain. If I'm involved, it will be as thorough and fair a test as I can think of, and I'll report exactly how the test was performed and whether there was a change in power.

Jim

[Fluidampr]

Lemme get this straight...

6.2L application? Does this come with a spacer for the crank because the 6.5 balancer typically has the shorter shank because of the reluctor wheel?

Curious as always, If it's truely smooth, this would be great for the 6.2.

J

Yes the 6.2L application (p/n 800191) does come with the spacer to make up for the shorter hub length because of the reluctor wheel on the newer engines. if you do not need the spacer the p/n is 800141.

The design intent of all Fluidamprs is to reduce torsional vibration from the crankshaft to increase the life of your engine & internal components. Any power gain is purely a bonus as it has been stated. In general we see a 5% gain in power, this is because we are properly controlling crankshaft vibration which allows the engine to run more efficiently.

We have seen some applications have basically no power gain & in some we have seen a 10% gain. It just depends how effective the stock rubber damper is when it was originally designed. If the OEM did a good job designing the rubber damper there is only so much more left on the table that our damper will be able to pick up. If the OEM did a poor job in designing the stock damper there is much more our damper can gain. Since we entered the perofrmance diesel market we have noticed that the stock dampers were not designed well & in many cases are overworked. Rubber dampers are limited in how much vibration they can absorb. A fluid type damper can absorb much more vibration due to the silicone fluid that is used.

Right now I do not have any data that I can post on the forum however I am working with Jim & will be contacting him later to possibly set up an independent test so that we can post hp & torque data with our Fluidampr for those who would like to know.

I apologize for any confusion I may have caused about the 5% power gain statement as this was meant to be a general statement. if any one has any other questions I would be happy to try & help.

Thanks,
Dan

[Shikaroka]

Interesting, but OUCH! $470!
I don't think it's worth putting one on my 260k mile engine, but maybe if I build one someday I'll consider it.

I have a chassis dyno, so if I ever put one on, I could probably tell if it made a difference.

[john8662]

Thanks Dan!

Now I can properly recycle my old 6.2L balancers! I had in the back of my mind to keep them just in case I need to cut off the hub to adapt to 6.2L.

J

[j_k_auto]

Yea the FD is a nice product. When I got mine I was impressed on how nice the fd really came out. Right now it is just sitting around collecting dust:eek: Since I have no need for it at this time:( .

[gmctd]

How about a front and rear pic of that bad boy, directly into the hub, for show'n'tell?

Maybe even include the oem hb?

[Billman]

I want one regardless.

Fluidampr makes a nice product.

With or Without 5%...

I have had only good luck with them in 20+ years.

Have never been down the track in my BBC without one.

Even have contingency check stubs to prove...

[hayhauler69]

I like it tơo.
Tried to find where to buy online, Summitt and Jegs don't carry it.
Suppose I could try my local auto parts dealer, but then I'd have to pay sales tax. Sall

[Billman]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FLU%2D800141&N=700+0&autoview=sku

[hayhauler69]

OK, thanks, not sure what I did wrong...................... Just gettin ole' I guess:o
Thanks again

[Fluidampr]

How about a front and rear pic of that bad boy, directly into the hub, for show'n'tell?

Maybe even include the oem hb?

We have a picture of the 6.2L / 6.5L Fluidampr on our website under the Durmax page: http://www.fluidampr.com/DURAMAX.htm.

You can also purchase any of our parts thru the distributors listed on our website: http://www.fluidampr.com/WHERETOBUY.htm. The performance diesel distributors are at the bottom.

Thanks,
Dan

[Robyn]

This little jewel may be a real plus for the 6.5/6.2 engines.

I am very certain that harmonics are the gremlin that is tearing these engines to bits under certain circumstances.

The variables that are present in production runs of these engines are what I think is the reason we see sporatic failures as opposed to a situation that can be repeated and varified over and over.

With the ability to damp out all these destructive forces the 6.5 could get some much needed help in the durability dept.

Now for the big ????????

Can their damper be used with a steel crank and of course do they provide a "ballance boss" that can be drilled slightly during the process of ballancing the engine?? The dynamics of a steel crank are going to be somewhat different than the Iron shaft.

Sounds like a very big step in the right direction.

I was recently chatting with the boys that do the work on my big Cat.
We were discussing the possibilities of bumping the HP up a little and this necessitates the addition of a "fluid damper", different turbo and a reflash of the ECM.

Obviously Cat understands the merits of the fluid dampener concept in keeping the bad vibs in check.

Just may have to give these guys a call and pick their brains a bit.

Great thread.



Robyn

[gmctd]

Thanks for the link, Dan - I never would've looked under DMax

[MaxPF]

We have a picture of the 6.2L / 6.5L Fluidampr on our website under the Durmax page: http://www.fluidampr.com/DURAMAX.htm.

You can also purchase any of our parts thru the distributors listed on our website: http://www.fluidampr.com/WHERETOBUY.htm. The performance diesel distributors are at the bottom.

Thanks,
Dan

What is the difference between the 800141 and the 800191?

[Fluidampr]

What is the difference between the 800141 and the 800191?

800141 & 800191 is the same Fluidampr except 800191 comes with the spacer that goes behind the Fluidampr. This is for the older 6.2L engines that do not have the electronic reluctor wheel that the newer 6.2L & 6.5L engines. I believe the change took place in 1988, I am sure some of you can probably tell me if I am mistaken. With the older engines you need the spacer to lengthen the hub of the damper so the pulley's line up.

Robyn,
Yes our Fluidampr can be used with a steel crank however there is no need to drill the damper. When balancing an engine the crank is what should be drilled & balanced to the remaining rotating assembly. The damper should not be drilled whether it is stock or aftermarket. All Fluidampr components are drilled & balanced before they are assembled. Yes we are OEM for many CAT engines also, it is the same company, same technology.

If anyone has any other questions please let me know.

Thanks,
Dan

[gmctd]

The first EFI 6.5 was released for the 1994 model year - '93-back did not require the reluctor.

The DSG Phazer timing gearset also has the separate reluctor for EFI - does the FD installation require replacement of that reluctor where the DSG set has been previously installed?

DSG reluctor is keyed for ~2deg advance - is the FD reluctor keyed for stock oem timing?

Any long-term EFI 6.5TD test results, say 50k-100kmi?

[More Power]

If we can assume the FD reduces the bad harmonics in these cast iron 6.5 cranks, the question I think some will ask is: "Will this end the crank failures we hear about?"

I suspect the failures we hear about will decrease, but not disappear.

Cracking failures of the 90's GM blocks could still be a contributor. Failed rubber isolated crank pulleys, defective dual-mass flywheels and loose torque converter bolts could still happen on rare occasions. Any of these pose a problem that couldn't be helped with an FD.

Another question: Could reducing crankshaft harmonics reduce the block cracking we hear about?

Jim

[j_k_auto]

If we can assume the FD reduces the bad harmonics in these cast iron 6.5 cranks, the question I think some will ask is: "Will this end the crank failures we hear about?"

I suspect the failures we hear about will decrease, but not disappear.

Cracking failures of the 90's GM blocks could still be a contributor. Failed rubber isolated crank pulleys, defective dual-mass flywheels and loose torque converter bolts could still happen on rare occasions. Any of these pose a problem that couldn't be helped with an FD.

Another question: Could reducing crankshaft harmonics reduce the block cracking we hear about?

Jim

Now you know while I bought mine:D . It should take care of all that above if I am correct. If anything it will improve durability of the engine. Also how I look at it 500.00 over 5000.00-7000.00 and alot of agravation on getting the new parts just sucks :mad: . jmpo

[Fluidampr]

The first EFI 6.5 was released for the 1994 model year - '93-back did not require the reluctor.

The DSG Phazer timing gearset also has the separate reluctor for EFI - does the FD installation require replacement of that reluctor where the DSG set has been previously installed?

DSG reluctor is keyed for ~2deg advance - is the FD reluctor keyed for stock oem timing?

Any long-term EFI 6.5TD test results, say 50k-100kmi?

The Fluidampr replacement does not require replacement of the reluctor wheel. If there is no reluctor wheel or anything to take its place you will need the spacer (p/n 800191). If a reluctor wheel is present or anything else to take its place you do not need the spacer (p/n 800141).

The Fluidampr is keyed so that the timing marks on the Fluidampr are the same as TDC on the stock damper.

Unfortuantely I do not have nay long term test results with that many miles. When I do I will be happy to post them.

If anyone else has any questions please let me know.
Thanks,
Dan

[Robyn]

Dan

The reason I mentioned drilling the damper is that in years past I have seen units that were perfectly balanced then the damper was changed for one reason or another and then the assembly rerun and the new balancer was not the same.

The factory units have a big weight on the them and I have seen many that needed tweeking a tad to get them right.

Same goes for flex plates and flywheels, the production stuff varies a bunch and this can make for issues if the unit is replaced after an engine has been balanced.

Thanks for the good input

Glad to have you on board

Robyn

[ronniejoe]

I recently ran a balance test to check some of this out. We balanced a crank assembly to .06 oz-in per plane using a new damper and new flex plate. I had two other used dampers and one other new damper that we then swapped onto the assembly one at a time and checked the balance. One of the used dampers resulted in .06 oz-in per plane...no change. The other used and other new damper each produced .05 oz-in per plane...an improvement of .01 oz-in over the original balance.

The factory dampers don't seem to have much variance in them, from what I have seen.

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

This sounds like a terrific product. It would have to be at least considered if one was building a strong motor for pulling (or fun! ;) ), or just want to keep it for a real long time. Unfortunately, for us commoners, at list price they're 7.7 - 9.1 X what I can get a standard replacement part for from Rock Auto (ATP or Dorman); 6.8 - 8.0 X Rock Auto if bought from Summit. Maybe ATP and/or Dorman are junk, but they'll have to do for me for now. :(

"We have seen some applications have basically no power gain & in some we have seen a 10% gain." If I read this right, that means across all the applications they've built Fluidamprs for, you'll see 0 - 10% power (hp? torque?) improvement. This does NOT say this applies to 6.2 and/or 6.5 applications.

"...on a stock 6.5L application, we should be able to measure approximately 5% additional horsepower and torque..." "Trust but verify..." "Dan to Jim: Yes, on a stock diesel, we typically see on the order of a 5% increase." As a consumer, I guess what others have been trying to say is, don't in any way, shape, or form make the claim without any data. I know the temptation is terrific to make such claims. I work for a small (~ 20 employees) company that mfgs parts for scientific instruments; we're a 3rd party vendor of such parts. I constantly have to stop myself from saying anything I can't back up with hard data. Others here have simply expressed their desire for the data to back up the claim. Personally, I suspect you'll eventually provide this data, but I agree with the others: tell us what it provably will do, don't bother telling us what hasn't been or can't be proved.

Please accept in the spirit given. I'm a knee-jerk capitalist, & wish you all the best. I just happen to feel that you've got enough to offer if it simply reduces crank harmonics in our 6.2/6.5 engines. :D

(on edit) On second thought, maybe it doesn't matter. Even if you provided dyno plots, some folks would still say you jazzed the data. Sometimes when you're a vendor, you just can't win, eh? :rolleyes: I ran 5 gallons of Stanadyne Performance Formula through my 95 pickup, & my mpg dropped ~ 5% the full year I ran it. They claim a 3 - 8% mpg improvement. My 5% mpg drop is within what I'd consider normal data scatter for such stuff, but my mpg certainly didn't increase. So it goes...

Blessings!

[JohnC]

Did your mileage go back up when you stopped using it?

I had a immediate drop in mileage when I switched my rear axle to synthetic. It was so dramatic I switched it back. I never recovered the lost mileage, AFAIK.

[Shikaroka]

I'll have to agree with you Moondoggie, on most of that!

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

"Did your mileage go back up when you stopped using it?" Nope. I haven't looked closely, but it appears a general downward trend simply continued right through when I used Performance Formula & after I ran out of it. (I'm suspecting worn timing chain causing retarded injection timing, & old injectors; I'll bump the timing a little when I get time, the injectors, well...)


Blessings!
(signature in previous post)

[gmctd]

Thanks for the informative input, Dan

[EWC]

One of my questions would be if the engine was balanced , would the FD be better than the OEM balancer ? The FD may be designed to handle more of an " out of balance engine " or one not held to smaller tolerances . If the balancing brings the rotating assembly back down to the operating limits of the stock balancer , do we need the FD ?

[ercaduceus]

Dumb Question. Why are there two dampers for a 6.5. What does the secondary damper do. If you replace the primary damper with a fluidamper do you just use a stock secondary damper.

Thanks,

[DmaxMaverick]

Dumb Question. Why are there two dampers for a 6.5. What does the secondary damper do. If you replace the primary damper with a fluidamper do you just use a stock secondary damper.

Thanks,
Two different functions. If your truck has two dampers, the other is for the accessories, not rotating mass balancing. If you have the damper pulley, you should continue using it. It dampens the combustion pulses (from the accessory belt), extending belt and accessory life. A fluid damper should have little, if any, effect on the pulley damper.

[ercaduceus]

Thanks, when I replace my primary damper, I will get a stock secondary aw well.

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

"The FD may be designed to handle more of an "out of balance engine" or one not held to smaller tolerances." Good point! One thing I noticed about RJ's engine (in his 95 Sub) is that is doesn't vibrate noticeably AT ALL at idle (or any other rpm, for that matter). This makes sense: RJ's engine is basically blueprinted & balanced, plus it has the cam gear drive setup (no timing chain), plus his injectors are probably relatively new too, so it oughta run smooth. Every 6.2/6.5 I've owned has been pretty rough. All of them make the outside mirrors vibrate noticeably when idling, the dash vibrates, etc. RJ's has NONE of that. So, I bet if I put a Fluidampr on one of my trucks, things would get smoother.

Interesting aside: When I replaced the timing chain on the Sub, it noticeably increased vibration at idle. I have no idea where the timing is, I just lined up the marks like they were before, & have noticed it doesn't rattle any more or less than before, so it's probably not more than a few degrees off where it was with the old chain (which was worn pretty badly, although I didn't measure the free play).


Blessings!
(signature in previous post)

[JohnC]

I think there is some confusion between balancing, which is a rotating mass issue, and harmonic dampening, which has to do with the internal harmonic vibrations that result from the power pulses. Balancing is independent of power pulses and can be accomplished without the use of a "balancer". Adding a balanced dampener to a balanced crank/rods/pistons will have no effect on balance (in a perfect world...), but makes a world of difference with respect to harmonics.

The Liberty Bell, with the correct harmonic dampener, would not be cracked. With a perfect dampener, you wouldn't be able to hear it ring...

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

Won't either poor balancing OR poor harmonic dampening cause vibration?



Thanks & Blessings!
(signature in previous post)

[gmenor]

I installed a fluid damper yesterday and there is a noticable change on the engine's idle. It is a lot smoother - which was what I was hoping for. I had replaced the harmonic balancer and pulley dampner two years ago (auto zone). The pulley dampner was dry rotted and probably would have failed soon. Cast into the pulley was made in Korea. Ended up back at the dealership for OEM pulley dampner and $240.00 less. The reliabilty of after market replacement parts does not hold up to OEM parts.

[rustyk]

I suspect there's one of these in my future, although I replaced the original with an OEM part 20K miles ago.

But my 6.5L TD ain't yer Daddy's engine, being a Peninsula Diesel (AMG) replacement with Phazer, non-wastegated TC, and Hi-Pop injectors - in a 16,000+ lb. motorhome. Replaced 12/06, the new engine has 11K miles on it, and I'm delighted with the performance.

[befland]

Dan,
I assume that the reluctor wheel is only for the electronic IP's? So in my case...an early model 6.2 with 1993 serpentine setup would still require the spacer? (Broken crank at 367K. In the process of installing an 18K miles longblock)

Thanks, Bill

[Fluidampr]

Dan,
I assume that the reluctor wheel is only for the electronic IP's? So in my case...an early model 6.2 with 1993 serpentine setup would still require the spacer? (Broken crank at 367K. In the process of installing an 18K miles longblock)

Thanks, Bill

Hi Bill,

Yes you are correct, you would still need the spacer. Part number 800191 comes with the spacer for the older engines. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,
Dan

[More Power]

Here's an image clipped from a Fluidampr brochure I picked up at SEMA last fall. It doesn't have the graphs for the 6.5, but it does help illustrate the need for effective harmonic damping.

Jim

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/fluidampr01.jpg

[More Power]

Here's the front view of the externally balanced 6.2/6.5 Fluidampr:

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/fluidampr12.jpg

Here's the rear view:

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/fluidampr13.jpg

An article (along with more pics) is in the works. :)

[Scooby]

I am trying to find where to buy one of these. Summit is out of stock, the other sites I have tried dont recognize the part #. PAW says they havent sold FluidDamper in quite some time. Did you buy direct ?? My 6.5 is parked till replaced. Pulley bad, damper will be changed at same time.

Thanks, Rick

[EWC]

Jegs lists one . Don't know if they have one in stock .

[gmenor]

I bought mine at Summit - but had to wait 2 weeks.

[Fluidampr]

I am not sure what the problem is with Summit, there is no reason it should take 2 weeks to recieve that Fluidampr. We have plenty of them here on the shelf. Summit should be able to order this part & we can ship it to them the same day. You may want to try some of the diesel perfomance shops that are more likely to have Fluidampr product in stock. Summit/Jegs are finally starting to notice the demand for aftermarket diesel parts.

If anyone has any questions please let me know.
Thanks,
Dan

[More Power]

Here's the new article on the FD! :)

http://www.thedieselpage.com/features/fluidampr.htm

Jim

[twaddle]

JK,
Fluid dampers can be checked to ensure that they are working as they should.
It requires a special piece of equipment, looks like an electronic set of scales. The damper unit is sat face down on the tester, a switch is pressed which activates the tester which puts a vibration at a set frequency into the damper, the test unit then tells you if the damper is operating by the way the damper has controlled the vibration.

We used to have fluid dampers tested this way when rebuilding engines fitted with fluid dampers to ensure we didn't get any comebacks (broken crankshafts) due to faulty dampers.
The only dampers that tested faulty generally had external damage (dings and dents) which usually restricted the free movement of the internal damper ring.

Jim

[More Power]

The only dampers that tested faulty generally had external damage (dings and dents) which usually restricted the free movement of the internal damper ring.


FD says you shouldn't drill into the damper to attach other accessories either.... :)

Jim

[HillBilly2]

I got mine installed yesterday, really smoothed out the engine. I'm very happy with it.

I wanted to post an FYI though. We called and ordered it and told them the make and model of my burb, they sent the wrong one anyway. It seems their sales force are not up to speed on the technical issues of what you need. Regardless of what the salesman or catalog says if you have a mechanical engine you will need the spacer. The snout is shorter to fit the 6.5's with the engine speed sensor, so no engine speed sensor equals spacer.

Hope this helps.

[Stratosurfer]

This thread is timely for me. My sweet bumper mounted FSD cooler set up I noticed vibrating appreciably at idle on my Tahoe. I checked the Sub at idle as a comparator and it was solid as a rock at idle; no vibration whatsoever. The vibration is so pronounced on the FSD cooler on the Tahoe I worry about the FSD's longevity: I have applied a temporary fix of 'lashing' the farthest end of the cooler away from it's mounting to the bumper with some line and a spring to the available holes at the bottom of the bumper, we'll see the results.
I was shocked at the difference of vibration on the Tahoe at idle vs the Sub. When throttle is brought on on the Tahoe it smooths out fabulously throughout the RPM's.
Question: could my rubber damper on the Tahoe be headed south?
I may be in the market for this fluid damper sooner than I had anticipated.
Also, how tough of a job is the replacement of the OEM fluid damper, looks like an old harmonic balancer to me and would be a similar job.
Thanks.

[DmaxMaverick]

Replacement isn't too bad. A good time to take care of other wear items due while you're there. Water pump, timing set, front seal, radiator (clean). The OEM balancer is an "old harmonic balancer", rubber and steel. The Fluid Damper is an aftermarket upgrade.

[Nelsoncat]

I ordered a fluid damper for my 6.2 F150 project from Summit on Nov 5, they said it would ship on the 8th. Then I received a notice that it was unavailable until the 20th. Now I received another notice that it is backordered until the 29th! Wonder whats up????????

Craig

[Billman]

Summit does not stock them. Once you place an order, They order one directly from Fluidampr/Vibratec. Once Summit receives it, it then ships out to you.

If you look at the item on their website, the availability will always be about a week later. That's the timeframe assumed before Summit receives it.

As Dan has stated, they should open their eyes to the Diesel Performance Aftermarket. Maybe they have, but who remembers the 6.5 crowd.

[More Power]

Right now, there is a wider variety of products and more vendors for the 6.5 than at any time in its history. The diesel phenomenon is pulling the 6.5 along with it. :)

Jim

[Craig M]

Fluidamper was at the SEMA show a few weeks ago. Dan was there and they actually had a 6.2/6.5 unit at their booth. Dan said they had them in stock.

[trbankii]

Looking at the Fluidampr website for the various 6.2/6.5/Duramax models:
http://www.fluidampr.com/DURAMAX.htm

This conflicts with what is on the Diesel Page article website:
http://www.thedieselpage.com/features/fluidampr.htm

Fluidampr website lists #800191 for '82 to '87 6.2 engines and #800141 for '88 to 2000 6.2/6.5 engines.

TDP article lists the #800191 for 6.2/6.5 mechanical injection pump engines and includes a spacer to make up for the reluctor wheel while the #800141 is for the electronic injection pump 6.5 models.

Is this correct?

Is it also correct that the only difference between the two part numbers is the inclusion of the spacer in the #800191 kit?

[More Power]

The FD photographed for the article (http://www.thedieselpage.com/features/fluidampr.htm) was pn-800141, which is intended for the EFI 6.5, and is described on the invoice as "8" 6.5 GM Diesel, 92-02".

As far as I know, the spacer is the only difference between the two part numbers.

Where this can be tedious is when a new 6.5 has been installed in an earlier truck. So, if your engine has a CKP (Crankshaft Position Sensor) and reluctor wheel ahead of the crankshaft sprocket, you'll need pn-800141. If your 6.2/6.5 does not have a CKP, you'll need pn-800191.
Jim

[Fluidampr]

That's right Jim, p/n 800141 is for the electronic injector pump engines using the reluctor wheel. P/n 800191 is for the 6.2/6.5 mechanical injector pump engines. Both p/n's are the same damper, in fact if you order 800191 your Fluidampr may be stamped as 800141 (sorry for the confusion). When we box up an 800191 we use a 800141 damper & throw in the spacer to replace the relcutor wheel for the mechanical injector pump engines.

I am not sure why Summit does not stock these parts & then they give you a ship date that is so far off. We are quite pleased the way the new 6.2/6.5 Fluidampr has been selling in the last few months.

This is why I usually send diesel customers to performance diesel shops & not the large warehouses. It just makes more sense to send diesel customers to specific diesel performance shops, especially the ones that keep them in stock so you can recieve your parts quicker than having to wait a couple weeks.

Let me know if anyone has any questions.
Thanks,
Dan

[trbankii]

Thanks for the clarification - was pretty sure I understood but wanted to make sure. Might want to clean up the Fluidampr website a bit to avoid the confusion with the years there...

Couldn't find the Fluidampr available through any of TDP advertisers. Not in a real hurry for it, so will probably go through Summit. Maybe if enough people are ordering them they'll start stocking them.

[Fluidampr]

I have been meaning to clarify that better on the website, I'll try to take care of that this week before everyone is recovering from Turkey overdose. Of course its hard enough with half the plant gone since shotgun season opened!

The only TDP advertiser that I see that carries our Fluidampr line is Diesel Performance Parts, they have been a distributor for us for about a year now.

Thanks,
Dan

[More Power]

www.dieselperformanceparts.com (http://www.dieselperformanceparts.com) :)

Diesel Performance Parts Inc.
411 Allied Drive
Nashville, TN 37211
Toll free number : 866-455-7788
Local and technical information :
phone: 615-834-0066
fax: 615-834-9923
email : info@dieselperformanceparts.com (info@dieselperformanceparts.com)

[trbankii]

I couldn't get to where I could actually order anything off the DPP website - trying to select any item with their "search" only provided: We're sorry. We could not locate any items in our database with the search criteria you entered.

I tried several items other than the Fluidampr with the same results.

[Nelsoncat]

I could not find them on their website, search says item not found

[Nelsoncat]

looks like we were typing at the same time

[Mark Craig]

trbankii,

We don't have the 6.2/6.5 Fluidampr on our site yet, just the 6.6 Duramax. Rest assured if you can call us at 866-455-7788 we can get you the part you're after. In fact we have sold a lot more of the 6.2/6.5 Fluidampr's than I ever thought we would.

Mark @ DPPI



I couldn't get to where I could actually order anything off the DPP website - trying to select any item with their "search" only provided: We're sorry. We could not locate any items in our database with the search criteria you entered.

I tried several items other than the Fluidampr with the same results.

[trbankii]

Thanks, Mark.

I'll be giving you a call.

Thomas

[Billman]

We are quite pleased the way the new 6.2/6.5 Fluidampr has been selling in the last few months.

Hurry Thomas, sounds like a price adjustment.

[Mark Craig]

Thomas,

Great we'll be open Wednesday and closed Thursday and Friday for our employess to have some family time!!

Mark @ DPPI


Thanks, Mark.

I'll be giving you a call.

Thomas

[Craig M]

A lower price might spark my interst in buying one.

[Nelsoncat]

I just received an e mail from Summit saying it was shipped on the 20th. Total cost was around $430

[trbankii]

Order placed - although did have to go around a bit on the phone as to part number as they wanted to sell me a #800141 based on the year of my truck. Best to get that issue resolved! :)

And although I won't post any prices since DPP didn't post, I will say that I am very pleased.

Always glad to deal with a TDP vendor! Many thanks!

[Mark Craig]

Thomas,

Post away, we are not able to post prices per site rules as a Sponsor, but you have no such restriction as far as I know. Thanks for giving us the opportunity to be your performance part supplier too, we strive to have the right parts at the right price and encourage anyone to tell us if we are not competitive etc.

Mark @ DPPI


Order placed - although did have to go around a bit on the phone as to part number as they wanted to sell me a #800141 based on the year of my truck. Best to get that issue resolved! :)

And although I won't post any prices since DPP didn't post, I will say that I am very pleased.

Always glad to deal with a TDP vendor! Many thanks!

[Robyn]

I will weigh in by saying this.

As a business woman I feel that competative prices may be posted and are good for all concerned.

If you got a really sweet deal that may be considered to be "Cut throat" then please do not post the price as this can make being competative for some dealers of this fine products a lot tougher.

I find this in the gun business as I am a small shop with no where even close to the ability to buy the quantity that the big supper shops can.
My sale prices reflect this too.

In the case of this posting please, if you like the folks you dealt with, recommend them and possibly encourage them to join TDP.

Lets keep the price things off the page.

I have quoted the price on a couple items I have purchased for my rigs but they were fair trade prices.

I hope this reflects my position on the posting of prices.

I am grateful for all the manufactures and dealers who have joined TDP and by keeping pricing out of the picture here (At laeast on the open posts) it keeps all parties happy.

If you wish to PM someone whos aks about the price, go right ahead.


*** I responded on this post solely because of an email alert I received regarding posting of prices ****


My 2 cents worth

Best

Robyn

[Nelsoncat]

Sorry, I didn't realize posting prices was a no no. Anyone can go to Summits website and find this price however. I do have a problem with websites that are difficult to navigate and then say "call for the best price" If I can't order it online at 11:45PM in my pajamas I won't waste my time scanning that website in the future. There are exceptions; ie low overhead fab shops that make a particular part and don't have the resources for a fancy website. Summits website is very informative and easy to navigate, and usually has fast shipping, just not in this case. UPS said it should be here monday.

Craig

[trbankii]

I had been the one that asked about posting the price I received from DPP - just didn't want to get anyone in trouble. I basically agree with Nelson about being able to find a price on the website instead of having to play games calling, but since this is a relatively new product and others seemed to have some shipping issues I went ahead and made the call.

I'll just say the price was better than others I've seen online for the product plus shipping to me and even if it was the same or only slightly more I would have gone with them for their support of the Diesel Page.

[trbankii]

Just wanted to follow up - received the Fluidampr on Monday (01/07/08).

Placed order with Diesel Performance Parts, Nashville, TN on 11/21/07. Credit card billed by DPP on 11/25/07. Shipped 01/03/08 from Horschel Motorsports, Springville, NY. Received in Harrisburg, PA 01/07/08.

As an aside, the box says "6.2L GM Diesel #800191" on the side of it. As stated above, that is the correct one for the mechanical models, but caused a certain amount of confusion for the 6.5L application - I really think that Fluidampr has to address that to make it easier on the end user.

Now just have to find some time to get it on the truck!

[Mark Craig]

trbankii,

Yep so sorry about the delay's, we have had a number of them on back order for a long time, seems Fluidampr is having a great success in the light/medium duty sales arena and just can't produce them fast enough!! Usually we can ship you anything we stock same day. Thanks for your pruchase and enjoy it!!

Mark @ DPPI

[Stratosurfer]

Order placed

Are you pleased with the results for the investment? I am considering one just now.
Thanks

[john8662]

also... Who has the best price on these things currently? I may buy two during this purchase...

J

[skark_burmer]

also... Who has the best price on these things currently? I may buy two during this purchase...

J

Me too, one for the 6.5 and one for the duramax.


bueller?
bueller?
Bueller?

[KallyI]

I just bought one through Summit. Don't know if it was the best price, but it was the easiest to get to Canada through them.

[More Power]

DIESEL PERFORMANCE PARTS INC. 1-866-455-7788 www.DIESELPERFORMANCEPARTS.COM (http://www.dieselperformanceparts.com/) WE GUARANTEE OUR PRICES, PERIOD!

I saw this in an above message.... I imagine this means they'll meet or beat anyone's prices.

Jim

[rustyk]

I saw this in an above message.... I imagine this means they'll meet or beat anyone's prices.

Jim

It might mean that, but it's currently like Schultz the Butcher:

Mrs. Goldstein: "Is this price right? $2.79 the pound for lamb chops?

Schultz: "Yes. $2.79"

Mrs. G: "But Schwartz has lamb chops at $1.89 the pound..."

Schultz: "So, buy your lamb chops at Scwartz!"

Mrs. G: "Schwartz is out of lamb chops."

Schultz: "When we're out of lamb chops, the price is $1.89 the pound also..."


Bottom line: The site claims no hit for the Fluidmpr...

[Konrad.INc]

Hello

I am wondering if anyone knows if its ok or not to glue a set of magnets onto a Fluidamper harmonic balancer? I have started to get a little interested in sticking an Isspro tacometer on my truck and I know they use a pair of magnets and a hall effect sensor to generate a signal. I am starting to get a little worried about my origonal balancer because I am getting a pulsing vibration throughout the truck which I think is steming from the engine. Kind of along the same lines, does anyone have any advice for installing a gear drive set at the same time as I do the damper?

Thanks

[85-m1028]

a pulse through the truck could be a driveshaft, u joints. a little more info about the truck would be nice. pulling the tach from the alternator would be my choice..

[Konrad.INc]

I know its not the driveshaft or anything like that because it does it when the engine is running, not driving. It only does it soemtimes, its just s slow vibration, I know its a pulsing vibration at about .2hz. I believe it to be caused by the engine operating at something close to the natural frequency of the frame and/or body since I can shut the truck down in the middle of a pulse and you can here the vibration damp out. The Issprro tachometers are much more accurate than an alternator driven one due to the power pulses of the diesel engine and V belt setup. It should be fairly easy to achieve something less than 5% error with a hall effect sensor and a pair of magnets, or even better with more magnets. Anyways, I can see the rubber on my origonal damper starting to squish out from between the two steel halves. I figure after 26 years of service and 190000 miles it might just be time to deal with it before something really bad happens, kind of the same issue with a gear drive set, all preventative maintenence.

[More Power]

Hello

I am wondering if anyone knows if its ok or not to glue a set of magnets onto a Fluidamper harmonic balancer? I have started to get a little interested in sticking an Isspro tacometer on my truck and I know they use a pair of magnets and a hall effect sensor to generate a signal. I am starting to get a little worried about my origonal balancer because I am getting a pulsing vibration throughout the truck which I think is steming from the engine. Kind of along the same lines, does anyone have any advice for installing a gear drive set at the same time as I do the damper?

Thanks

The rather small magnets Isspro uses shouldn't cause a problem when installed as indicated in the instructions. Some vibrations found in these engines could be due to an aging harmonic damper. It could also be attributed to a loose timing chain - causing variations in injection timing. It could also be due to an imbalance in the injectors or cylinder compression.

Installing the gear drive timing set has been discussed at great length here in the board. A few searches should turn up a lot of reading.

Jim

[Pelado]

I'm using a Fluidamper with an Isspro tach, the only problem I have to report is that apparently I glued poorly one of the magnets and it flew away. So I'm having to multiply by 2 the tach readings. Ha.
My only excuse it's that the Fluidampr surface is so smooth that is not a good bonding surface for the glue.
No vibrations whatsoever even with only one magnet.

If you don't want to glue the magnets to the damper you can glue them to the flywheel/flexplate and mount the hall effect sensor inside the bellhousing.
I did that on a Toyota 4.2 L6 TD from a '95 Land Cruiser in a friends Dodge M-37 with an Isspro tach.

[mrwilecoyote]

Hey wanted to add to this. I just read the entire thing and my question is...Anyone running one of these(like I am)..Any issues with extremly cold weather ? Will the motor be out of balance in the morning ? Mine felt kinda funny the other morning after 1deg F over night but it could have been in my mind.
Anyone have input on how cold weather affects them ?

[More Power]

Hey wanted to add to this. I just read the entire thing and my question is...Anyone running one of these(like I am)..Any issues with extremly cold weather ? Will the motor be out of balance in the morning ? Mine felt kinda funny the other morning after 1deg F over night but it could have been in my mind.
Anyone have input on how cold weather affects them ?

I've wondered that too, but haven't looked into it because I believe it's a minor point. The silicone fluid can operate under a very wide temperature range - perhaps moreso than the OE rubber elastomer.

Near zero F. causes most diesel engines to start or begin running somewhat rough till the fire is lit and combusting normally in all eight. I recommend using the block heater (for at least a couple of hours) before the first start when it's that cold. That'll cure the roughness... ;) Jim

On edit: I'm putting together a 6.5 that'll have the FD. It'll probably be spring before it's on the road, but I'll know more next winter.

[Stratosurfer]

Hey wanted to add to this. I just read the entire thing and my question is...Anyone running one of these(like I am)..Any issues with extremly cold weather ? Will the motor be out of balance in the morning ? Mine felt kinda funny the other morning after 1deg F over night but it could have been in my mind.
Anyone have input on how cold weather affects them ?

I just got back from Crested Butte, last day when we left thermometer on RV Mirror read -23F. I was plugged in all night and started and after warming up noticed nothing unusual. Don't think cold bothered the Fluidamper.

[mrwilecoyote]

OK. Good too see someone else's results. I do use the block heater whenever possible. Hate the way they sound cold..:eek:

[mrwilecoyote]

Update.
I spoke with a tech at Fluidampr. They are in Buffalo NY and said unless it gets down to around -40f don't worry about it.

[racer55]

Low temp info direct from the fluidamper site:

http://www.fluidampr.com/what/why-does-fluidampr-use-silicone-56/

[More Power]

Though it's taken much longer than I expected to complete the project, we've been driving the Blazer and rebuilt 6.5 (with Fluidampr) since last fall (fall-2021). The engine is very smooth running, and I have not noticed any damper-related roughness this past winter as a result of cold temps.... though it didn't get driven much during the coldest days that winter provided.

Out of curiosity, from time to time I have looked at the damper's outer circumference while the engine was idling. It was always spinning dead true, without a hint of wobble that can sometimes be seen in a factory type damper. The serpentine belt also seems to spin around the pulleys with less flapping.

All in all, I'm happy with the FD.

If you are registered and logged in, you can visit another forum topic thread that discusses our Fluidampr installation as well as the entire 2021/22 build for our 1994 6.5L Turbo Diesel Blazer - from bare block to camping/kayaking. (https://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?46770-6-5L-Turbo-Diesel-Blazer-Project)

Registration (https://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/register.php) is always free...