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View Full Version : DS4 I.P. Remove and Replace - Some Tips



Cowracer
11-01-2006, 06:40
I replaced my I.P. this weekend. A bout three hours to remove the old, about 5 to install, but more about that later http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

I'm not sure what fubar'd in my pump, but I lost all throttle authourity. You either had max acelleration, or idle. Nothing inbetween. Made for an intersting drive home, I'm here to tell ya!

I got a rebuild one from Walt at SS Diesel suply for just shy of $700, which is a screaming deal if you ask me.

Now for the tips...

First off, BE SAFE! UNHOOK BOTH BATTERIES


Now get yourself some good ziplock bags, and use them to hold the bolts you remove. Keep them in groups, like for the intake and the alternator bracket. This helps tremendously when putting it all back together. Some of my bags only had 3 bolts in them.

Unplug wire harnesses as you need to, but label BOTH ends. GM makes it hard to plug up the sensors wrong, but why take a chance. A small tape flag with "A" "B" "C" and so on, on both sides of the plugs make it easy later.

Remove the upper and lower intakes seperatly. Getting the intakes off is not as daunting a task as you would think. Make a sketch of what holes hold bolts and what holes hold studs. Dont forget to unbolt the fuel filter, You dont have to remove it, but it has to come off the intake. A 15mm deep 6 point socket and a speed handle makes the job pretty easy. Dont unbolt the coolant crossover. It can stay in place. Stuff a shop towel into each intake port to keep anything from falling down into the engine.

Once the intakes are off, you will see the pump, and you will dispair at getting the injector lines off. Follow the line back from the #1 cyl, and mark it at the pump. It should be on the drivers side of the pump, just above halfway down. I use a small zip tie on the nipple to mark it, just so you dont loose track of the #1 spot on the pump.

Remove the #1 and #3 line nuts at the injectors and remove the #1 line nut at the pump with a 3/4" wrench. Carefully slide (DONT BEND) the #1 line back in its bracket just enough to allow the wrench to fit on to the #3 line nut. Remove the #3 line nut and remove that pair of lines from the truck. LABEL EACH LINE NEAR THE PUMP END!

Now you can remove the line nuts for the lines on the top of the pump (8-7-2 and 6). If you undo the lines at the injectors, you will find you can move them a little for wrench clearance. I wound up leaving the 6-8 pair attached to the injectors, because getting to them was a pain in the @ss.

Before getting the bottom 2, I removed the cap over the fuel solenoid, and undid the wires. Getting the lines off is not fun, but its not impossible. You just got to work at it.

as each pair of lines comes loose, remove it from the truck. (you did label them, right?)

Now comes the fun part. It helps to have nerves of steel.

Remove the oil fill tube and grommet off the front of the timing cover. Inside you will see a large nut and hopefully some smaller nuts. You may have to rotate the engine. Use a 15mm on one of the damper bolts and turn in in the 'tighten' direction. Grab some help, and give them a mirror and a light and have them stop you when one of the smaller bolts is inline with the oil fill hole. Remove this bolt. and rotate the engine again. Repeat until all three bolts are out.

MAKE DAMN SURE YOU DONT DROP THESE BOLTS INTO THE ENGINE. In this one area, you want to work slowly and cautiously! As soon as the bolts were finger loose, I stuck my finger in the hole and used my fingertip to make sure the bolt stayed in the socket. Painful, but worth the effort.

After all three bolts are out of the gear, you may remove the 3 nuts holding the pump on. First scribe a line on the pump bracket that lines up with a distinctive part of the pump. It does no good to draw a line on the pump and bracket if you are replacing the pump. there is a part of the pump flange that angles down, I used that as my reference.

Start at the one on the lower passenger side. It is the hardest to get to, and you might as well get it while you are fresh. I used a standard 15mm wrench with no modifications. You may want to bend or grind on the wrench for clearance. It may make it easier, but its not neccisary. Then get the drivers side nut, and finally the top one. With all three nuts off, now the pump will slide out. Remove and discard the gasket.

I'm not sure if you can pull the timing gear out of mesh or not, but I dont think you want to find out. BE VERY CAREFUL AROUND THE TIMING GEAR!

When installing the new pump, rotate the pump so the index pin in the gear hub is aprox. in the same place as the old pump. NOTE! GM, in their infinate stupidity, put the index pin in the same bolt circle as the bolts. This means its entirely possible to stick the index pin through a bolt hole and you wont know it until you try to install the gear bolts and nothing lines up. I had the pump and all lines on when I relized that I did JUST THAT! Talk about excessive profanity!

For that reason, I recommend putting on the top pump nut to hold the pump in place, and then the gear bolts, before doing anything else. I used blue locktite on those bolts. I found using a small mirror to help get the bolts lined up with the holes helps alot.

Install the other two pump nuts. How, you ask? Simple (sort of...) I use a coat hanger to fashion a long wire with a small hook. I hung the nut off the hook and used a long screwdriver to start the nut on the threads. Its not easy, and can frustrate the hell out of you, but if you stay with it, the nut will eventually start. Have a magnetic pickup handy for when (not if) you drop and nut and have to fish it out from underneath the pump in the engine valley.

Once the pump is line up and the 3 nuts secure, go about re-attaching the bottom injector lines on the pump (now aint you glad you labeled everthing?)

the firing order is 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3. Repeat this mantra every time you install a line, checking and rechecking over and over.

Once you got the bottom lines hooked up, install the Fuel solenoid wires and cap, and reattach the remaining injector lines.

Once I had all the injectors lines on and wires hooked up, I removed the shop towels and tried starting the truck. A 6.5 is more than happy to start and run will the intake off. I DO NOT recommed this unless you have balls of solid rock. You could very easily suck something into an intake port and do something dreadful to the motor. I did this just so I could check for leaks and whatnot before putting on the intake.

It took some cranking but it finally started. It took about 30 seconds to purge all lines and settle down into the familiar 6.5 idle. Everthing looked good, so I shut it off and installed the intake, alternator brackets, oil fill tube, and anything else that I had removed.

A quick road test confirmed that everthing was okey-dokey. It is conventional wisdom that you should re-time the pump anytime you mess with it. That being said, my truck feels just fine, and throws now codes even without a re-time. I will have it done just for giggles, but I would bet that everything is close enough to be fine.

After doing the change, I say that it's nowhere near as hard as I made it out in my mind to be. I coulda done the install in about 3 hours if it werent for the issue with having the pump indexed wrong on the timing gear.

Moral of this story is, DONT BE AFRAID TO WORK ON YOUR TRUCK YOURSELF!

Tim

cudaaa
11-01-2006, 07:26
Nice post cowracer! any problems with the S&S pump? cudaaa

Cowracer
11-01-2006, 09:22
No, but its only been 3 days and about 70 miles.

Stay tuned.

Tim

Big Green
11-01-2006, 10:46
Cowracer,
I just had my timing set at Sapaugh. They set time balance and TDC offset to the spec's included with the gear drive.

When I picked up my truck it had been washed and vacuumed... something it hardly ever sees at home. They also have a new rack system that they drive them across. It checks alignment, brakes, shocks, and a bunch of other stuff. Then they do their normal safety inspection on most everything else.

Total bill.... $103.00

I think I'd get it checked and/or set just for the piece of mind if nothing else.

It's the second time I've used their service dept and have been totally impressed both times.

Big Green

Cowracer
11-01-2006, 11:07
Cowracer,
I just had my timing set at Sapaugh. They set time balance and TDC offset to the spec's included with the gear drive.

When I picked up my truck it had been washed and vacuumed... something it hardly ever sees at home. They also have a new rack system that they drive them across. It checks alignment, brakes, shocks, and a bunch of other stuff. Then they do their normal safety inspection on most everything else.

Total bill.... $103.00

I think I'd get it checked and/or set just for the piece of mind if nothing else.

It's the second time I've used their service dept and have been totally impressed both times.

Big Green

really? I never heard any good about them guys. I guess they are trying to get that turned around.

how do you like the new gear set?

Tim

Big Green
11-02-2006, 06:06
Cowracer,
The gear set is the best thing that has even happened to my truck. It completely changed (for the better) the performance of the engine at low rpm.

It has always had a low rpm flutter. At 950-1000 rpm it would miss so badly that the entire truck would shake. Put a fully loaded steel 3 horse gooseneck trailer behind it and it was even worse. Now I can idle up steep hills in 1st or 2nd gear and it is absolutely smooth.

If I would have known how much of a difference it would have made I would have installed it a long time ago.

Now if the chip I ordered from JK would just get here....

Big Green

gmctd
11-02-2006, 08:17
Empirically, in 99.9999999999999999999999% of all similar cases, a new timing chainset would have given the same results.

Also, burnishing connector contacts by unplugging\replugging them can clear up a number of symptoms - faulty connections give same symproms as faulty sensor\module.

I replaced with new chainset, then with the new gearset, and noticed no difference between the two, except that TIMESET and TDCO LEARN were more stable with the gearset.

Not knocking the gearset, here - but, glowing gearset reports are duplicated by new chainset reports.

FYI.........

NH2112
11-02-2006, 10:00
Empirically, in 99.9999999999999999999999% of all similar cases, a new timing chainset would have given the same results.

...

Not knocking the gearset, here - but, glowing gearset reports are duplicated by new chainset reports.

FYI.........


True, but for how long? in 200K miles a gearset owner will be able to say the same thing. A chain owner will be putting a new chain on (admittedly, the 2 chains will cost less than the gearset.)

93_Burrito
11-02-2006, 10:05
The fuel injector lines are much easier to work with if you:

1. Start with a 3/4" 12-point box wrench
2. Cut a slit in the boxed end, turning it into a 12-point flare wrench

A crow's foot may come in handy as well. Works for me...

For those who don't know: DB2 injector lines require a 1/2" wrench...

NH2112
11-02-2006, 10:56
All the DB2s I've ever worked on had 5/8"/16mm nuts at the IP ends and 3/4"/19mm at the injector ends.

gmctd
11-02-2006, 12:02
True, Phil, but not many folks keep a 6.5 that long, and many 6.5's don't survive that long.

It's the restoration of the timing specs that causes the improvement, not the gearset vs chainset thing.

I particularly like the gearset because of the reduced noise, not even to mention the stabilized timing, allowing repeatability during testing.

93_Burrito
11-03-2006, 12:09
All the DB2s I've ever worked on had 5/8"/16mm nuts at the IP ends and 3/4"/19mm at the injector ends.


D'oh.. you're right. My oops.

Big Green
11-06-2006, 10:46
gmctd,
I agree that a new timing set would have had a big chance of 'fixing' the problem I was having. However, my concern was that since this truck had had the same issues since the day I drove it off the dealers lot with 13 miles on it that a simple chain replacement wouldn't do the trick. Maybe my engine had a bad chain from day one, maybe the manufacturing tolerances were all built up in the same direction, maybe the distance between cam and crank centerline was too short.... whatever. All I knew was that I was tired of having to rev it to 1500rpm's to let the clutch out without it chattering like crazy. Gm replaced no less than 6 pumps, 2 computers, flywheel, wiring harness, injector lines, and a host of other stuff trying to fix it within the first 100k. I wasn't going to take a chance.

I also liked knowing that if I had a centerline issue that DSG could provide different idler gears to match my condition.

The other factor to go gear drive was that I found one for sale that a guy had bought and never installed. Saved about 30% over new.

Besides.... that is one job I do not what to have to do again.... and since I basically keep my rides until they are dead it seemed to make cents (and dollars). My back and fourth to work car, a 95 saturn, just rolled 320k.

gmctd, I hope this doesn't come off as a flame against you. It's not intended that way. I enjoy your postings as they are always insightful. Sometimes a little more background will justify the actions.

Big Green

gmctd
11-06-2006, 11:33
No worries, mate! :cool:

My posts usually concern the 'other side of the story' or the 'rest of the story', and your post is another positive vote for the gearset, with background info - the rest of the story - as to the why of it.

As was mine, ages ago.

My only intent was to inform those who choose the chainset, whether from simple economics or simple disbelief, that their driveability would be just as restored as with the gearset.

Again, I am one of the very few that has replaced worn chainset with new, then replaced the new chainset with the gearset.

Very few of us are gonna be concerned with getting another 100kmi out of our engines, so gearset longevity and stability is a moot point, lost in economics.

I sincerely appreciate your taking time for that response, so - hang in there, keep on posting, read the FAQ's, keep a wary eye out for ole steaksauce, and -

Happy Motoring!;)